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Accountability Delayed

Filed under: General,Law & Courts — MurrayBacon @ 7:52 am Wed 15th February 2012

The New Zealand Herald carried an article about 16 year jail sentences given to two executives, as a result of 3000 asbestos related deaths of workers and neighbours of the factory.
Note that the executives didn’t bother to attend the trial and I guess might not care to attend the jail either?

I was struck by the similarity between the numbers of deaths, to the rough number of suicides that may be linked to the new style of familycaught operation, introduced in 1980? Delivering suicide triggers Judge Dale Green
When the relationship between the actions and the outcomes is difficult to link and prove, then time delays become a problem, for workable accountability.

An Italian court has handed two company executives 16-year jail terms for the asbestos-related deaths of more than 3000 people.

Swiss billionaire Stephan Schmidheiny, 64, and Baron Louis de Cartier de Marchienne, 90, the former heads of the Eternit cement company, were found guilty of failing to ensure adequate safety measures at two asbestos-cement plants active in Italy until the 1980s.

Prosecutors in Turin said the deaths occurred from asbestos-linked tumours among Eternit staff, their families and people living near the factories.

Many hundreds more are ill with terminal mesothelioma cancer caused by the substance.

Health Minister Renato Balduzzi said after the verdicts: “It’s a sentence that you can call truly historic for its social aspects and for its technical and legal ones.”

Defence lawyers denied the accused had direct responsibility for the Italian company, and the pair have been absent from court throughout.

Some relatives of victims burst into tears in court when the sentence was read for the world’s largest-ever trial into asbestos-related deaths and illnesses.

– Independent

By Michael Day

Accountability can be one off, as in the example above.
Accountability is more effective, when it comes home immediately, as any parenting book will tell you, eg Toddler Taming.
Accountability should be by each case.
Judges should be assessed on the quality of their performance for each case and paid by the litigants on the basis of the quality of the results delivered.
If we don’t operate a constructive system of incentives, in the way that we pay “judges”, then chances are that the incentives we give by default will work against us.
If you don’t plan to succeed, then you are planning to FAIL.
You see, if the principal doesn’t manage the incentives, then the “worker” can manipulate the incentives, so that they become incentives to rort the principal. One example is featherbedding, where workers deliberately go slow, to maximise returns under pay by the hour.
Besides, if judges work slowly and inefficiently, then we should pay them more than accordingly.
If they produce pieces of paper that are valueless in the real world, they should be paid with toilet paper stamped with $10, to pay their wages, they are not worth more! Kay Skelton’s behaviour not managed by familycourt
Judge’s decision will not have effect as wife and children out of NZ
In this instance, it seems unlikely that the executives will be incarcerated, so is there much value in the hearing and sentencing?
Has the hearing made the world a safer place, for citizens and workers?
You be the judge!
You should make your judgement, before you pay them each time.
MurrayBacon boring axe-murderer.


  1. The difficulty is the average person reading this and filling in the gaps. Your stated case and following the links to Mr Mahony misleading parliament. Not only was he misleading parliament he was actively altering cases and erasing evidence and using the family court budget to pay other lawyers to assist him. The rot isn’t isolated cases the filth goes all the way to the top. I turned around in the street a couple of years back and who should be there but Mahony. He froze on the spot – I would suggest nearly shit himself. I looked at his DPS minder, who burst out laughing. He may has his money and his knighthood, and I doubt it is any consolation to those who have been injured but I would suggest the man is living his retirement in fear.

    Comment by Down Under — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 10:10 am

  2. Dear Down Under,
    you mention more corruption, than I know about. Please document this and make a submission to Justice Department, before 29/2/2012. If I can assist in any way, please let me know.
    You mention “actively altering cases and erasing evidence and using the family court budget to pay other lawyers to assist him”. This would seem to be in breach of Government finance audit requirements, as well as family court acts and rules. This needs more than a person with an axe.
    Thanks, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 11:00 am

    Scroll down to meeting with Mahoney.

    Lawyer Robert Brennan concluded the meeting by drawing attention to the “corroding effect of a man’s soul when he experiences injustice.”

    He discussed the social contract and pointed out that we cannot expect men to have allegiance to a social system that has failed them. He said: “To take away the prospect of hope leaves them permanently alienated.”

    This may have been before your time, but you could ask Robert Brennan why he suddenly disappeared. Maybe he would be prepared to make a submission about how he was threatened and by whom. These people only play by the rules when it suits them.

    Comment by Down Under — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 12:45 pm

  4. Hmmm, that might explain why Boshier has been so avoidant of fathers’ groups. Perhaps too many skeletons in the FC closet that might be uncovered and require accountability.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 7:52 pm

  5. Dear Down Under,
    I have tried to contact Robert, but could never get any communication from him, on these subjects. “These people” only use the “rules” to apply onto other people, but when they think noone is watching, or even if there is someone watching, but they can discredit their witness, then anything goes, especially integrity! This just gives us a challenge, to make sure that good quality evidence is generated and made available when they are held to account.
    People should not be put into non-accountable positions, it is unhealthy and improper.
    If fiend boshier doesn’t want to face up, then I can’t see it is any use paying him for anything… (Other than that any replacement would probably be far worse…., but if we don’t pay a replacement, then we could get rid of boshier.)

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 8:10 pm

  6. I have an email from Kevin Robinson, court manager at the Auckland City family court in which he admits that his staff pick and choose which of the family court rules they adhere to. I have correspondence with him in which he and his staff refused to adhere to specific family court rules I had pointed out to him.
    Accountability … not in that neighbourhood…

    Comment by JS — Wed 15th February 2012 @ 10:38 pm

  7. #6..that and the fact some nz court workers(police prosecutor) from akl are busted drug dealers..the whole system is a wonder people have no respect for the courts and the judicial system.useless arseholes

    Comment by Ford — Thu 16th February 2012 @ 6:55 am

  8. Judges retire and are then not subject to any accountability.
    Bank robbers post the police a declaration that they are no longer robbing banks, and the police stop chasing them.
    Generally though, in the real professions, accountability does not stop with retirement!

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Tue 21st February 2017 @ 10:34 am

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