MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Kill the Family Court

Filed under: General,Law & Courts — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 2:54 pm Sun 6th May 2012

A campaign ‘Kill the Family Court’ is an initiative of the Ministry of Men’s Affairs. Protests are planned outside successive Family Courts on Fridays during June and July between 11am and 2pm. The Ministry of Men’s Affairs believes that the Family Court under its empowering legislation kills numerous men, women and children by ruining family relationships, stimulating family break-up, perpetuating unequal parenting regimes, inciting acrimony, practising gender discrimination against men, accepting false allegations and perjury, restricting communication, upholding immorality and promoting the expectation that one parent can defeat and exploit the other. Therefore the Ministry cries “Kill the Family Court”.

Please come join the cry and remind our Minister of Justice and her government that we are deeply unhappy with our Family Court! Government is currently deciding on changes as part of the current review and we need to remind ministers that ‘moving around the deck chairs’ is not acceptable. A new system is called for involving effective dispute resolution and real help for families to stay intact or to maintain cooperation after separation. Whether together or apart, parents are equally important to their children. Although some form of Family Court will still be necessary the changes required mean it will be so different as to have killed off the system that currently afflicts us.

The planned schedule of protests is as follows:

Friday 22 June: Auckland
Friday 6 July: Tauranga
Friday 20 July: Hamilton
Friday 3 August: Napier
Friday 17 August: Rotorua
Friday 31 August: Wellington

Please put your nearest protest in your diary, and any others you are able to support. Remember they will be between 11am and 2pm.

For further information contact Kerry Bevin (09)4733747, Craig Jackson (04)3892291 or Hans Laven (07)5712435 or (0274)799745.

Please liaise with these Ministry personnel if you plan to attend any of the protests and please let us know if you can assist with accommodation, hospitality or transport.

We encourage locals to spread the word about the date of the protest in your town. We suggest that you put a poster up on the notice board at your local Family Court! Many unhappy litigants may appreciate the opportunity to show how they feel. Posters elsewhere, advertisements in local papers etc will also be useful.

See you there or be square!


  1. Congratulations for following up on your submissions, with protests to remind politicians that fathers do care about the welfare of their children and want to be part of their lives, not just pay child [and spousal] support cash payments. Presently the largest single barrier to healthy family relationships and accountability for quality of care, is the familycaught$.

    I am looking forward to supporting these protests and ask you to do similar. Best regards, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 9th May 2012 @ 8:10 pm

  2. We have all support for you guys from Egypt, We too are demonstrating to accelerate the new law discussion of end the custody of the mother at 7 years old for boys, 9 years old for women. Good luck brave NZ men, I will let every father in our groups know about you initiatives, unfortunately all our Facebook groups are in Arabic.

    Comment by Iron Eagle — Sat 12th May 2012 @ 12:02 pm

  3. Reply to Iron Eagle#2

    Thank you for your sincere support ‘Iron Eagle’…

    Under no circumstances let ‘Feminism’ get hold in your Country, it as done a lot damage in western European society ….And please, I say this with the greatest respect… treat your Egyptian women and Egyptian Mothers with honor and respect that they truly deserve…

    Have a look at this link below…There are now plenty of Men’s right movements happening in Western European Society start networking with them ….

    Kind regards John Dutchie …Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 12th May 2012 @ 12:19 pm

  4. I have created a Facebook group called United fathers of the world, I wish we can communicate together from different parts of the world about our same case, and I hope that feminism to be exposed and destroyed soon the same way communism did.
    Group Url:!/groups/234013643371817/

    Comment by Iron Eagle — Sat 12th May 2012 @ 12:38 pm

  5. This video shows the Egyptian demonstration in front of parliament to close family courts and to return custody to fathers at 7 years for boy and 9 years for girl like it was before.

    Comment by Iron Eagle — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 5:39 pm

  6. Great initiative – however, this WILL NOT CHANGE A THING – we need to prepare and take a legal case against the government to demonstrate the multiple breaches of mens human rights, many of who just want to have peaceful quality time with thier children. The ONLY WAY any government will change is when its going to cost them money – lots of money in paying out a collective group ( as individuals we are being slaughtered) for discrimination, for deliberately preventing good fathers, good men, from having time with our children, for encouraging and allowing the bad behavior of mothers to continue unabated – which sadly for us, incites men to react – and consequently we fall into that trap and are forever labelled as violent.
    For allowing this same bad behavior to continue which is destroying and harming children. Two psychological reports from family court professionals detailing the harm caused to my daughter by the mother – psychological harm and NOTHING has ever been done about – not one consequence to the mother – the sole cause of the concerns. These stinking money grubbing lawyers in the family court don’t give a shit about the children being harmed, or the fact that men have to suffer every provocation and bad behavior imaginable, and we have to accept we will have NO say in your childs life or upbringing = which leads onto the Guardianship act – what a toothless waste of legislation that is – try getting it enforced – as a separated father you have to accept you will have no say. But you will pay of course – as an example – the mother can choose to send the child to a private expensive school against your wishes in tough economic times – but IRD will demand you pay, even if you cant – After ten years and a lot of money I have seen exactly what the family court is about. Yes it needs to be got rid of, and every lawyer currently associated with it needs to be sent packing as well. Sadly until an independent body oversees them – nothing will change – lawyers looking after lawyers – if the bad behavior was actually dealt with, with penalty and consequences , this plum job for lawyers would come to an end – and they are not going to let that happen in a hurry. Ps, I have filed complaints to the NZ human rights commission – I have experienced direct discrimination – which the act states is determined based on what the victim feels – and yet the NZ human rights commission will not take any action against another government department – apparently – if a PROCESS is discriminatory – thats alright and acceptable as far as they are concerned – they apparently receive a lot of complaints from fathers but have made a unilateral decision to take NO ACTION – so perhaps once we can amass the numbers and the funding, take the government and the very organisation which is supposed to protect us from discrimination, to court – now that would be a sight to see – the Human rights commissioner charged as a party to discrimination – by deliberately refusing to take complaints from effected fathers – thats the sort of thing this group has to do in order to get some progress on these issues…… individuals we are easily dismissed. As a group – detailing the shit we have to go through, then you have a case – Shouting at the local politician will not change things – dont get me wrong Ill be there.

    Comment by hornet — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 9:06 pm

  7. #6..i have legal guardianship rights with my kids but as you say its means diddly squat

    Comment by Ford — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 9:41 pm

  8. Perhaps the human rights commission should be targeted first. After all, its one of the most feminized institutions I’ve come across. What complaints process is there against the human rights commission?
    Perhaps they need to be inundated with complaints….

    Comment by JS — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 9:47 pm

  9. ive found over the years it dosent matter what degree of custody or how strong my court orders appear to be i can lose my kids at the drop of a hat

    Comment by Ford — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 9:51 pm

  10. @Hornet (#6): I totally agree; You are spot on. I had no idea what a disgusting excuse for a system the Family Court is until recently. Something needs to be done and NOW before any more men and children suffer the terrible consequences of this unjust system. This is a great start but legal action needs to be taken.

    I’m a woman (you’d probably guessed by the name) but I would really like to show my support for this cause.

    Also, maybe a Facebook Group or Event or whatever should be started for these protests (of it hasn’t already)? The social network is a great way to get the word out there.

    Best of luck. I hope that I can be a part of this movement in the future. I’m sick of seeing other women abuse this biased system and destroying families!

    Comment by Tania — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 10:03 pm

  11. #10..and you wouldnt use this biased system to your best advantage?

    Comment by Ford — Tue 15th May 2012 @ 10:09 pm

  12. great to see we are all on the same page, actually no surprise – most of us on here are so disillusioned with the system, we come here for answers. I am very keen to start collating a complaints register – detailing the instances where you have been discriminated against by IRD – child support or family court agencies. As I recall an ex policeman did jail time for refusing to take a complaint – perverting the course of justice as I recall, by failing to investigate. You see if we can amass the numbers, which will then clearly demonstrate there is discrimination and multiple breaches of human rights at every level, then I believe a civil case for costs, and damages should ensue. Only then will govt stand up and go, ok we admit there is a problem here and deal with it – because they wont want to be liable for the cost – Power and Money is all Politics is about. If people on this board are interested I will arrange for an email address to where you can send your information. But remember you will have to be prepared to come to court and tell your story.

    Comment by hornet — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 11:06 am

  13. of the major issues i have is no-one has ever listened..the system treats men like they are the liars and storystellers

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 12:09 pm

  14. Reply to Ford #13

    ‘no-one has ever listened.’…Yes Ford I can related to that in my journey with in the N.Z feminists controlled government departments of N.Z……

    Its like the three monkeys syndrome…’I see nothing’…’I hear nothing’…’I smell nothing….

    ‘the system treats men like they are the liars and storytellers’…

    Hmmmmm….Yes,you are correct… But in my opinion its worse that Ford …Men/Fathers are always deemed to be the ‘abusers’ under all circumstances in western European society …Men/Fathers are not be trusted …Blah…Blah…..

    Kind regards John Dutchie Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  15. I have a database in Access 2000 of females convicted of major dishonesty, violence, and sexual offences. It also includes the child abusers!presently over 250 of them. I must admit it is far from complete mainly due to my own inertia!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:08 pm

  16. Reply to Gwaihir #15

    Is that only for N.Z…Or world wide…?????

    Kind regards… John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:18 pm

  17. NZ Only. The whole database has “Evolved over its existence from copy & pastes to include links to original stories.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  18. #16..just the local neighborhood

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  19. Seemingly true Ford, though not intentionally! Its just that my local paper gives preference to local issues as opposed the the main centres.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:27 pm

  20. Reply to Gwaihir #17

    Well done Gwaihir …Just Tongue in Cheek here…The Kiwi feminists won’t be happy with you Gwaihir …L.O.L..

    Maybe Han Laven could be interested in his line of work that kind of data could useful ….

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:27 pm

  21. #19..i can imagine the very high % of female violence that is kept out of the media..loads of it

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  22. I agree – the local press picks it up locally but the national press ignores it! – unless it is major. What does show is the number of suppression orders e.g. a female who hit a cop and broke their jaw! – Name suppressed! Anybody who has access I’ll send you a copy.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 2:43 pm

  23. Reply to Gwaiher…

    My advice to you Gwaiher,never ever show your research data to a Feminist…Do not ever trust a feminist…

    See link below…Have a read then you will understand why I have posted this…

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:04 pm

  24. Thank you for that John! We see the same sort of thing. When White feather – oops sorry – Ribbon day comes up I usually summarise the most recent entries – to fit on an A4 sheet of paper and give it to the sycophants supporting the fems.

    Works a treat

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  25. Reply to Gwaihir

    ‘Tongue in cheek’ Gwaihir… My Lady Asian lady as got a new name for ‘White Ribbon Day’ she as renamed to ‘White victim hood mentality day’…Quite appropriate me thinks…L.O.L

    None of that so called feminists crap of ‘White Ribbon day’ in this Asian Country Gwaihir….

    Here in this Asian country we have a day that we ‘all’ celebrate ‘The Family day’

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:32 pm

  26. access here but i do recall that broken jaw case

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:46 pm

  27. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer person!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:49 pm

  28. id have to agree with you gwaihir

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:51 pm

  29. Reply to Ford#26

    I think its this is the article that Gwaihir is referring to Ford

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:52 pm

  30. The offender was Louanne Edwardson and she got 20 months! I wonder what a man would have got?

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:55 pm

  31. Thank you John, for some reason I had forgotten to save the link

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:58 pm

  32. a man would have got twice as much and a beating in return

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 3:59 pm

  33. Reply to Gwaihir #30

    Answer I would say a sentence of a prison term of between two and half to three and half years…

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 4:00 pm

  34. campbell live last night..police chase a young man and apprehend him with a dog..handcuffed with his hands behind his back..walk him across a paddack and came to a fence..from that point to the point he was over the fence he suffered a broken neck and is now paralyzed

    Comment by Ford — Wed 16th May 2012 @ 4:08 pm

  35. Notice how the story about the “Policewoman’s Jaw” highlighted the officer’s gender in the headline and repeatedly throughout the article, went into detail about how traumatic it was for her and even described her “incredible show of courage”. That’s all well and good but when it’s a male police officer injured usually his gender is not even mentioned and usually little is said about the impact of the injuries etc on him.

    Given this violent female’s behaviour it would be very surprising if she didn’t play at least an equal role in the domestic conflict, yet only he is charged for it and then with the anti-male sexist ‘male assaults female’ offence. Reading the public comments to a recent Erin Pizzley article, many feminists indignantly claimed that feminism is all about gender equality. So where are the feminist voices objecting to laws such as this one that punishes men twice as much as women for the same violent action?

    Comment by Hans Laven — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:31 am

  36. Reply to Hans #35

    Yes Hans,I noticed how the media put the ‘spin’ on the ‘Policewoman’…But that is happening all over in Western European society

    Your comment on ‘a recent Erin Pizzley article,’…Do you have website link to this article Hans…????

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 10:34 am

  37. #35..i read an article the other day about cops being called to a domestic violence dispute and they had to make a point how the incident occured in front of that makes a difference other than adding to the dramatics

    Comment by Ford — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 10:54 am

  38. When commenting I endeavour to use gender neutral terms. It’s sort of anti spin and helps the article loose a lot of impact!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 11:57 am

  39. Reply to Gwaihir #38

    I have noticed that Gwaihir…As for me…Nope, I just say how it is ..And I don’t give a damn if I upset the Western European women Feminist movement

    Ironically Gwaihir you know what attracted my wonderful Asian lady partner to me Gwaihir…

    One night I was in my favorite local Asian restaurant,with one my English work mates,she was there too ,with one her friends having dinner..

    She overheard me locking horns with three western European women feminists from American it all started, when I overheard them say loudly ‘We have to being Feminism to this Asia Country’…

    That was like a ‘red flag’ to me, so I let them Feminists have it with ‘both barrels’, concerning my very vocal and my very blunt opinions of Feminism…Those American feminists quickly left the restaurant after that little heated debate…

    She came over to my table after things calmed down, and this is what she said straight to my face…note..with a cheeky grin….’Wow,what I heard you say to those feminists.. ‘you’ are definitely not a feminized soft c##k’…And that’s how I met my future wife Gwaihir ….

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:24 pm

  40. If she has a sister send her over!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:28 pm

  41. @40 “If she ha a sister send her over”

    Why send her to a feminist shithole?

    Comment by Skeptic — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:30 pm

  42. Reply to Gwaihir and Skeptic

    Gwaihir …L.O.L…Sorry Gwaihir ..She as two wonderful and drop dead gorgeous sisters and both are very happily married to decent and honorable western European men…And Skeptic comment is spot on Gwaihir …

    To Skeptic…I wouldn’t wish that upon my worst enemy Skeptic

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:38 pm

  43. if she has a sister send me a plane ticket..:-)

    Comment by Ford — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:42 pm

  44. @ John Dutchie No 22 Pity!

    Skeptic: To escape this latter day version of Hades is but to dream the impossible dream 🙂

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:43 pm


    Comment by Ford — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:51 pm

  46. Reply to Ford#45

    ‘Go hard’ Ford…And I am very seriously here Ford, you won’t regret it..And that goes for you too Gwaihir

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:56 pm

  47. Reply to Gwaihir #44

    If ‘I’ can achieve the so called ‘impossible dream’ ….Any decent Man can too…

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 12:59 pm

  48. #48..its not impossible..will just take a little more time

    Comment by Ford — Thu 17th May 2012 @ 1:17 pm

  49. John, you asked

    Your comment on ‘a recent Erin Pizzley article,'”¦Do you have website link to this article Hans”¦????

    It’s the article that you yourself linked us to recently! As follows:

    a large number of comments from readers denied that feminism had anything to do with violent women or mistreatment of men or children but that it simply sought gender equality. I have previously issued a challenge for anyone to point to an example in which feminists have ever objected to any of the numerous way in which discrimination, abuse or inequality disadvantages men. No example has yet been forthcoming. There may well be instances of it but they are clearly very rare. On the other hand, it isn’t uncommon for men’s movement spokespeople to speak up in support of women where they are mistreated etc.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 11:25 am

  50. Reply to Hans #49

    Thank you very much Hans…I know that website very well Hans,and on many occasions I have email Erin Pizzey to give her my 100% support,and saying to her

    ‘please stay strong and please continue the fight against radical Feminism’ …

    When I fiercely ‘lock horns’ in no uncertain terms with those three American feminists who were ‘ranting and raving’ in my favorite local Asian restaurant, that they need to being Feminism into this Asian country with there so called definition of there Feminists ideology of ‘Equality’ in this fine Asian that I now permanently abode in…

    When I mentioned ‘Erin Pizzey’ to those three American Feminists…You should have seen those three American feminists jaws dropped to the floor in shock,to cut the long story short….those three american feminists got… ‘slaughtered and quartered’ no mercy was shown to them at all… By myself and by my Male English work college…Those three American feminists virtually ran out of the restaurant…And of course calling me… ‘A typical male chauvinistic pig’… while fleeing the restaurant…’Tongue in cheek’….Oh dear, what a shame….Not…!!!!

    Here below, is a link to another article that Erin Pizzey wrote for the Daily mail

    Kind regard to you Hans”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last


    Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 11:51 am

  51. i went to winz on wednesday to apply for a food grant..while i was standing alone in the queue of just myself i was told to wait by a very young female while she chatted to another female and also and older male case worker came over and asked her a question about something and all she could do was treat him like he was an idiot for asking a question..icould imagine how embarrassed and offended he must have felt as he turned and walked away without replying to for the female case officer that was dealing with my application all she seemed to wannt to do was ask me trick questions and try to make me falter..not wanting to approve something that i know for a fact women get things approved for
    W.I.N.Z aka womens institute of new zealand

    Comment by Ford — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 12:24 pm

  52. The Home Secretary Theresa May says: ‘Coercive control is a complex pattern of abuse using power and psychological control over another – financial control, verbal abuse, forced social isolation. These incidents may vary in seriousness and may be repeated over time.’

    Financial control..her controlling the funds and taking for granted you pay for everything then denying you $5 for lunch out of the money you have earnt
    verbal abuse..i got called an asshole c#@t everyday
    psychological abuse..endless manipulative mindgames so she got her way all the time
    social isolation..when social events came up an argument would erupt and id be accused of ruining the evening before we even got there and 9-10 times she would end up going by herself
    she laso encouraged me to take up fishing on a more regular basis and to join a social club..i was then accused of rather being out doing my own thing than being with her so as far as she was concerned i must have been fucking someone
    but as the system goes im held responsible for abusing her..i dont have sympathy for women who get their head punched in

    Comment by Ford — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 12:56 pm

  53. Reply to Ford #51..#52

    W.I.N.Z aka womens institute of new zealand…Spot on….!!!!

    Your comment Ford….’i dont have sympathy for women’…I have totally lost any empathy or compassion towards western European women Ford, only for my own Daughter …
    That as been very successfully destroyed in ‘me’ as a ‘western European Man’ and a Father by the feminists state of N.Z….

    Kind regards”¦ John Dutchie..Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 1:47 pm

  54. #53..i only care about my 2 daughters john and they see my point of veiw on such matters

    Comment by Ford — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 1:58 pm

  55. While I do agree with you guys that there are many crazy, horrible women out there… I really don’t think it’s fair to tar us all with the same brush. Not all Western women are man hating cows. Don’t lose fait in us all guys. I’m sure some of you must have lovely new women who are standing beside you to fight the crazy exes?

    Comment by Tania — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 10:05 pm

  56. Why shouldn’t we tar you with the same brush if you don’t stand up and support us? For men there is case law that says he who watches is as guilty as he who does so what makes it different for you. Don’t tell me, it’s because you are a woman.

    Comment by Down Under — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 10:22 pm

  57. #55..all it would take for you to become a manhating cow is for some guy to piss you off and youll treat him the same as the rest of the feminist manhating cows..all females have a vindictive vengeful streak and have the potential and the means to ruin a man and you happen to be female

    Comment by Ford — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 10:55 pm

  58. Thanks Tania. Some females are right royal Bitches – At the same time some males can be pretty horrible also. The problem is sorting one from the other!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 11:27 pm

  59. Makes you doubt though Tania when a female smarms her way in here then uses statements in the family court. She appears to be left. Good!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Fri 18th May 2012 @ 11:30 pm

  60. The hatred here really makes me sad. I think you can make yourselves heard without expressing such disdain towards ALL women. YES there are some horrible women out there but there are good ones also. Likewise there are both horrible and good men.

    I came to this website because my partner is currently dealing with one of these man-hating women and I want to support him the best way I can. I’ve spent many hours researching to help his case against the crazy ex and have found the info on this site to be fabulous. I determined not to let the sexist family court system chew him up and spit him out like it has done to so many other men.

    I’d love to be a part of the Kill the Family Court protest but after experiencing the hatred towards me here simply becuase I am a woman, I am now rethinking that decision. It’s a shame that your negative attitudes are likely putting off women who genuinely want to support your cause.

    And Ford #57, your comment “all it would take for you to become a manhating cow is for some guy to piss you off and youll treat him the same as the rest of the feminist manhating cows” is really not appreciated. This statement is completely unfounded. My daughter’s father took all my money when I was pregnant and took off overseas, abandoning us both and leaving us with nothing. Did I behave like a “feminist manhating cow?” No. I did nothing to him. I’ve completely left him alone. Furthermore, I’ve chosen not to judge all men by the negative experiences I’ve had thus far… this decision has enriched my life and I suspect it could have the same effect on you.

    Perhaps you should take a minute to think… You are here supposedly fighting against sexism (against men)… and yet you are sexist (against women)… Don’t you think that undermines your argument somewhat? Your generalised hatred does not achieve anything positive and certainly does not help your cause.

    I hope that someday you will meet a woman who can prove to you that we are not all the evil wenches you seem to think we are. To go through life feeling such hatred will do you only harm.

    I know my words will likely be of little consequence because you are clearly very firm in your beliefs, but I had to express my honest opinion whether it makes a difference or not.

    Best of luck to all of you in your battles agaisnt this backwards system we have here in New Zealand.

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 12:31 am

  61. i dont particularly care what you appreciate..i wouldnt trust a female as far as i could spit no matter how much they try to plead their case

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 12:54 am

  62. #61 Well I think that your comments say much more about you than they do about women Ford.

    Ford, I hope one day you can find a way to rid yourself of the bitterness that abviously poisions your life; you would certainly have a much more pleasurable life if you did. It personally saddens me that you cannot see that your hatred is only harming you and is not achieving one iota of positive change for men. I sincerely wish you all the best in getting to a better place.

    I only hope that all men who are a part of this organisation are not so sexist, but rather fair and logical. If the men who are fighting the good fight can show themselves to be positive rather than negative, loving rather than hating, and reasonable rather than irrational, maybe some change (within the messed up family court system) can actually be achieved… I can only hope that this day will come!

    I choose to believe that men are generally good (despite my life experiences thus far) and I will continue to support men fighting against sexist women and a sexist system.

    Sorry Ford, but your ignorance and hatred is not going to deter me. Your hateful attitude is exactly what motivates me to keep fighting. There is no place in this world for such unhelpful attitudes.

    All the best to all of you who are currently battling agaisnt an unfair system. May logic prevail!

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:28 am

  63. Tania, I am going to tell you how it is from my perspective. I use the word tell advisedly. This is not a debate or a discussion; simply an exchange of information; from me to you.

    The issue is not complex. Men do not trust women and their feminist allies. Precisely in the same way as the Jews didn’t trust the Nazi’s.

    The 21st century is all about a new form of apartheid. Except we’re talking discrimination and repression based on gender and not colour.

    This new apartheid system enacts legislation that denies equal legal and human rights to 50% of the population; to enable the other 50% to usurp and maintain control.

    And mens responses, to date, have been muted and controlled. It is in a man’s nature to accept hardships as long as they can be reconciled as something he has bought upon himself or something he can manage. But the new apartheid regime is adding more and more irreconcilable challenges to all things male. And we don’t like it!

    As with all human beings; it is absolutely natural and normal to lash out at injustice. And lash out we will. We will not end up as Jews on a march to a death camp and humbly accept the fate the feminist oppressors have mandated.

    We have lost our homes, our children, have had our long term financial security eroded and our pride and dignity has been sorely dented.

    But rest assured; the tide is changing; the feminist machinery driving the new apartheid will be stopped; it’s coming because as we all know; what is fair and just is absolutely worth fighting for.

    Comment by Bruce S — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 11:10 am

  64. Tania (#62): I agree with you and I appreciate your supportive, balanced comments. Believe me there are many who contribute to MENZ and to the men’s movement who try to remain rational and fair. Most men are very happy to work towards gender equality in rights and opportunity. Senisible men respect women’s skills, contributions and sacrifices and realise that life can be hard for both men and women. There is big room for improvement in laws and taxpayer-funded institutions to make them work better for society including male-female relationships. Unfortunately, feminist ideology and propaganda has had far too much influence on laws and institutions (such as the Family Court) and has seriously reduced or reversed any good they might have done for our society.

    Sadly, on MENZ there have often been contributors who shoot off ill-considered rants and bombard discussions without thought to how this might come across to those looking in. MENZ is the premiere men’s blog in New Zealand and I would prefer contributors to moderate their own writings, both their wording and frequency, to portray an intelligent and reasonable image. The hard work of those who prepare thorough analyses, submissions, letters etc concerning issues relevant to men is often discredited by a few contributors who dominate discussions and distract from the issues. Some don’t seem to care that their way of participating will be discrediting and damaging the movement, or even that they may be exposing other participants to a real risk of official intervention, spying, police raids, confiscation of computers etc as for example happened to various groups recently.

    Over the time of my participation with MENZ there have been short periods during which the discussion remained intelligent and reasonable. One looked forward to the next response knowing it was likely to stimulate new insights or inspire new action. If you had looked in to MENZ at those times you would probably have been impressed by a site that was stimulating awareness and understanding about gender and men’s issues. Unfortunately, such periods never seem to last long. Every time the site becomes more credible and more people join or return to discussions it isn’t long before one or a few disrespectfully take over and soon turn the group into something that most people wouldn’t want to waste their valuable time reading.

    Keep in mind too that those saboteurs sometimes do it deliberately, i.e. they are trolls and/or representatives of anti-male groups who pretend to be contributing genuinely. I don’t think that has been the case recently when it has more been a case of a few self-focused individuals treating the site as a chat room for spouting hateful invective.

    Anyway, I have very much appreciated your contributions here. Most here will strongly value women who are open to understanding men’s experience and are able to discuss and debate reasonably and fairly. You have done so admirably and personally I hope you might return and not be put off by the rudeness and hostility of a few.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 11:41 am

  65. Reply to Tania

    Tania,Bruce S post of #63 summed it up perfectly …And everything Bruce S as said I completely agree with ..

    And which western European gender started this ‘gender war’ Tania…???:? And I do not say this lightly Tania, it is a ‘war’…And both genders in western European society are paying a very heavy price because of this gender war… Especially the children ,they are the true innocent victims ..Sad don’t you think….

    I now permanently abode and work in a Asian country..I have imposed a self exile from a feminist state called New Zealand…After my ex brother in law,my two best friends and myself have been ….’Hammered’….’Slaughter and Quartered’ by the N.Z feminist state machine because we all made the worst possible mistake to make in New Zealand…We all became Fathers..And that’s how I truly feel Tania…That mistake I made Tania ,will never,ever happen again in a feminist state

    I am a very lucky and a very blessed western European man…I am now engaged to marry a amazing,wonderful highly…astute…no nonsense.. Asian Lady…And I can tell you right now Tania, this beautiful (as in inside and outside) Asian Lady is far from subservient or submissive, that a lot of western European women are inclined to think of Asian women …And I am proud to say this Tania and I truly love her as my ‘Equal’…

    My Asian lady partner has two sisters, both of whom are very happily married to western European men that like me,live and work in this Asian country…

    However she as two younger brothers still at high school…And guess what Tania..???? she,and her Mother will not under any circumstances, let them ever marry, or let them get in involved with a Western European woman….

    Now what does that tell you Tania.????..Or are you going called my Asian Lady partner and her Mother ‘Women haters’ too…????

    Your comment Tania of …’I came to this website because my partner is currently dealing with one of these man-hating women and I want to support him the best way I can.’…..

    I am speaking from the Heart here…I truly appreciate on what you said here,my sincere genuine respect and ‘kudos’ to you Tania…

    And I know and I can feel exactly what your partner is going though, I have been there,done that…..

    Hans comment of ‘I hope you might return and not be put off by the rudeness and hostility of a few.’

    I agree with Hans there Tania…And I hope you do return…Now I can admit this, I have had my ‘rants and raves’ on here at ‘Menz’ Tania…But I can tell you right now …I do not hate Womanhood or Motherhood …Far …Far from it Tania..I will defend true womanhood and Motherhood to the death….

    ‘But’ and here is the big ‘but’ Tania…As for this ‘western European Feminism’ …I won’t mince my words here Tania…I truly despise and loathe it a passion, on what Feminism as turn into …

    I will reverse this for you Tania…If there was a so called ‘Men’s Liberation movement’ and there hidden agenda was based on a ‘gender supremacy movement’ and there purpose is to turn ‘women’ into a status of a second class citizens…Would I sit down down and do nothing..????…Like hell I would Tania… With no hesitation at all,I would fight for you as a ‘Women’ and as a ‘decent Human being’…..

    Kind regards to you Tania…John Dutchie…Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 1:26 pm

  66. I think Bruce S. has said it better than any in comment # 63.

    However, a small comment regarding Tania’s posts.

    When people claim to support men, but focus instead on how hateful some of us are, how much poison we sometimes spew, and how this negatively effects women “who are not like that”, one wonders about their sincerity. If I genuinely cared about the injustices some suffer, I would logically conclude that their anger and bitterness is a consequence of that injustice – it is not an excuse to berate them.

    Anyone who cannot look beyond someone else’s pain without feeling threatened by it is not made of the right stuff to be of any real assistance. They should stay on the sidelines.

    Comment by rc — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 1:33 pm

  67. Firstly, thank you all for your comments. I really appreciate you taking the time to resopnd.

    I am new here and every day I am discovering just HOW BAD the injustice against men is. It used to be that women were disadvantaged in society and now the pendulum has swung FAR too much in the other direction so that men are now the victims of this injustice. It is seriously out of balance and something needs to be done… AND SOON! Thank goodness for groups like this who are working to take action and make a positive difference.

    #63 Bruce S: Thanks for sharing your perspective with me (and all of us); it is certainly one that I appreciate and respect. I absolutely do not want men to “humbly accept the fate the feminist oppressors have mandated” (spot on btw)… in fact the opposite is true. I think men absolutely need to fight for what is just and right, as they are certainly not being treated fairly at present! It would be an abominable sin to lay down and accept the current system which tears children away from GREAT fathers. The action taken needs to be with the right attitude though (and I’m not questioning yours at all here Bruce). Fighting sexism with sexism (and hate) is never going to achieve the desired outcome.

    Bruce, your determination to overcome what at times can seem an insurmountable justice, truly inspires me. In fact I’m going to copy and paste your post in an email to my partner now. Sometimes I can see the system tearing him down and as a woman, I struggle to find the words to uplift him. Your words are just right.

    #64 Hans: Thank you for your comments also. It is reassuring that you evidence that the hateful attitudes belong to the minority here. It was a shame that my first interractions here were with people who feel such disdain indescriminantly towards all women. However, after reading the subsequent posts I certainly will not be dissuaded!

    I want to support men who have been disempowered by a sexist system, firstly, becuase it is just and fair that they be supported, and secondly, becuase I think more women need to be involved. The more women who support this, the more credibilty the movement has because as you say, in this backwards system, it is the women who have all the power. If women speak out against the injustices towards men, I think that can be very powerful.

    #65 John Dutchie: Thank you so much for sharing your personal story. I was very genuinely distressed and upset by your horrible experiences with Western women. I am so sorry that you have had to experience those things (though by the same token, becuase of those experiences you have obviously become a stronger person and now have a loving and fulfilling relationship which is truly amazing and well deserved).

    And I agree with your comments about feminism 100%. I used to consider myself a feminist because I believed in EQUALITY of the sexes. Now it seems that the feminist movement is pushing for SUPREMACY raher than equality and it absolutely sickens me. These women are now doing all the things that they were supposedly fighting against! I can’t explain how furious it makes me. Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a woman because of the actions of these women who call themselves “feminists” (let’s face it, “man-haters” would be a far more accurate title). They are not PRO-women, they are ANTI-men. I find it disgusting. It is a shame that this group of woman is so dominant that all Western woman are being associated with this horrendous attitude when I think many of us are actually hirrified by it (at least I know I am).

    John, I am so happy to hear the ending to your story. I hope (and believe) that it can provide hope to men who are just starting the battle, that they too CAN come out the other side and find happiness as you so clearly have done. I wish you all the best with your Asian lady, she sounds amazing, and in fact exactly as a woman should be!

    #66 RC: I’m sorry that you felt I was focused on the hateful rantings; I certainly did not intend for it to come across that way. I was just quite shocked and disappointed at the attitudes (of a few) I was seeing here. I had expected that because people here had been victims of a sexist society and system (against men now) that they would certainy not hold sexist beliefs themselves, for surely this only perpetuates a hateful and non-constructive cycle. I was just taken aback to find such hate here when I’d expected a far more constructive attitude. I can see now that this is not the general attitude and that perhaps there are some people here who are just using this as a place to vent their anger, rather than to contructively work to transform a system that does not work fairly. I hope those people can find peace and can then work as positive force to bring about great changes for men.

    I’ll be back here often I am sure! What a wonderful resource. I’m determined to find a way to play a part in this movement.

    Thank you all again and I must apologise for my rather lengthy reply! Once I get started…

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 3:30 pm

  68. #66..good post rc..i do not feel the need to hide my attitudes towards women and if i choose to include all women i will do so,after all its what a few women do to all men..whats good for the goose is good for the women not like the equality they so open attitudes give others all the excuses they need to berate me and spit their own venom..

    #64..hans.. im sure your putdowns are directed at me..and im more intelligent than you give me credit for and im neither saboteur, troll or a representative of an anti male group.. i also give my posts thought and they are deliberate
    I know you dont like what i post but thats really bad luck for you..i have a mind of my own

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 3:59 pm

  69. p.s.. hans..when/if there is ever official intervention..dont forget to mention theres a mysoganist on a mens website

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 4:16 pm

  70. Tania (#62): I read your comment at lunchtime today, and wanted to reply, but decided that the woman in my life needed a stress-relieving hike in the bush, so it had to wait.

    Speaking for myself, I think women in general are wonderful, and that when a man and a woman work as a team, life is sweet. So I honour you for standing by your man, as many good women do.

    I have always seen MENZ as a place where men can “spout off”; releasing emotional pressure in an environment where nobody is harmed.

    I appreciate that this sometimes undermines the site’s credibility as Hans describes, but my view is that this is what an unmoderated men’s forum in NZ looks like; take it or leave it.

    Ford (#61): I think your attitude is as destructive and unhelpful as the feminist’s “all men are bastards”. You’ve obviously had some bad experiences, but I can assure you that there are many excellent women in the world.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 5:57 pm

  71. #70..i do not apolagise for my attitudes or how i express them and when/if i ever meet 1 ill let you know

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 6:28 pm

  72. John,
    Fully support your view. The “Feminists” we choose to castigate have very likely been through similar hardships. If we choose to attempt to get along the world is so much better. Tania the world needs more ladies like you. You restore my faith in the feminine gender!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 6:38 pm

  73. “I had expected that because people here had been victims of a sexist society and system (against men now) that they would certainy not hold sexist beliefs themselves, for surely this only perpetuates a hateful and non-constructive cycle. I was just taken aback to find such hate here when I’d expected a far more constructive attitude”

    That is indeed a curious belief.

    It seems to suggest that if you treat people badly, if you withhold basic human rights from them, if you arrest and charge them more frequently simply because of their sex, then they would be better, well-balanced individuals.

    Perhaps they would be better acquainted with the worst of human nature. Perhaps they would be keener in their perception of those who would do them more harm.

    But in the spirit of optimism that always tries to see the best in every situation, that’s about as far as I would go.

    The reason we have so earnestly pursued the notion of treating people justly, of ensuring that they are indeed guilty of whatever crime they are charged with before running them off to jail, and the reason we do not deprive them of property rights and basic freedoms, is because doing this to them harms them. And because when we routinely harm our brothers and our neighbours, we ultimately harm ourselves. The wrong we do them is revisited on all of us. It takes the form of anger, bitterness and the desire to be avenged. It can become an all-consuming desire to hurt everyone else, to ensure we the lucky get a taste of what they the unlucky have had a dinner of. And make no mistake, to people who have been treated unjustly, everything simply becomes a matter of luck. Their faith in any other force of nature has been scoured.

    The last thing anyone who has been cheated, betrayed or treated badly wants to hear is how hateful he or she sounds. You might as well kick a dog, then kick it again because it barks. Ultimately it comes across as a veiled way of telling them to take what they’re getting with grace – so that it can be done to them again. The term ‘man up’ comes to mind.

    I am glad to hear that none of this was communicated intentionally.

    Comment by rc — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 6:49 pm

  74. #73..theres a link on here somewhere and the feminist man hating cow the link leads to states that ‘every man unjustly accused of rape should gain from the experience’

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 7:01 pm

  75. #73 RC: Sorry you appear to have misinterpreted my statement.

    I did not mean that men who have been persecuted because of their sex should be “better, well-balanced individuals” for it. What I WAS saying was that I would have expected that the victim of X crime would not go and commit X crime against another. It seems strange to me that someone hurt by sexism would go and treat other people with sexism when they know how horrible it is to be on the receiving end of that.

    I suppose it’s an interesting analysis of human nature… it seems to me that when people are treated horribly they do one of two things following it: EITHER They perpetuate the cycle by behaving in the same way as the people who hurt them OR Becuase of the pain they have suffered they become determined not to cause others that same awful experience. Reading comments in forums such as this it is very easy to identify which category each person falls into. I wish more people could use their pain in a positive way and transform it into something constructive so as to help others not to suffer in the same way. What is the point in continuing the cycle of hate? What good does that do for anyone…(including the perpetrator)?

    And my intent was not to “kick the dog, then kick it again” as per your metaphor. I guess my mind works differently. You say that the last thing someone hateful wants is to have their hateful attitude highlighted. However, this would be exactly what I WOULD want. If I was exuding hatred towards others because I had been caused pain, I would be grateful for someone to point it out to me. Maybe someone pointing out the harmful effects of my hatred would prompt me to take a moment to consider the impact of my words/actions and analyse whether or not they were constructive and whether they were combating the attitudes I was so angry about, or rather perpetuating them.

    Here is my concern: I believe that men are treated unfairly in the family court system and alson in certain parts of society outside of this system. I think that groups like this one are instrumental in bringing about positive change for men. If members of the group are seen to be hateful or misogynostic it undermines the credibility of the group as a whole and their cause.

    I understand the need to vent but I’m not sure if a website aimed at empowering and supporting men is the appropriate place to do it. Perhaps ranting to a friend or a counsellor might be a better option. The latter might even help to dissipate the hatred and allow for a happier life. I don’t believe this forum is the right place to express hatred.

    See the ‘Rules of this site’ page where it states the folowing:
    “This site has subscribers from a number of government departments, and ill-considered MENZ postings are regularly produced in hearings as evidence of abusiveness.”
    “Posts that are inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, sexually oriented, threatening, rude, mean, nasty, or invasive of a person’s privacy are not permitted.”

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 8:42 pm

  76. 1 thing id like to point out to tania..’hatred’ is the word you chose to use

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  77. hateful..hatred..hate appears to be tanias favorite word.. the word has been used 9 times in 1 post..drama queen perhaps..victim mentality?

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 9:15 pm

  78. #68 I don’t think Hans was putting you down Ford. Maybe read it again.

    #76/77 I used the word hatred because it is what I felt your posts exuded….
    E.g. this one directed at me:
    “all it would take for you to become a manhating cow is for some guy to piss you off and youll treat him the same as the rest of the feminist manhating cows..all females have a vindictive vengeful streak and have the potential and the means to ruin a man and you happen to be female”
    “i dont particularly care what you appreciate..i wouldnt trust a female as far as i could spit no matter how much they try to plead their case”

    I do not feel the need to find synonyms for the word ‘hate.’ These messages seem hateful to me, but perhaps you are simply misunderstood Ford? Are you saying you don’t have a hateful attitude towards western women? I would be most pleased to discover that this was the case and that you were in fact capable of liking or even loving some western women.

    #70: Thanks John. I’m so pleased that you can see that there are both wonderful and evil women out there, as there are men. I don’t think either gender should be judged as one evil entity, that is why I was so upset at Ford’s generalised insults. I don’t think the battle should be against ‘women’ or even ‘western women’ but rather against ‘women (and in fact men too unfortunatley) who contribute to and abuse an unjust system.’

    This website is an amazing resource. I’ve been looking in particular recently at some of the NZ Family Court precedents (here: and although this is hugely useful I’m wondering if anyone knows of any precedent setting cases from more recent times? E.g. in the last 10 years. It would be fascinating to see what kind of rulings have been made in recent times and if there is any more regularity with judges are treating men fairly. Hopefully a few are setting a good example and can lead the way for the wayward ones!

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:04 pm

  79. PS. Any scheduled protests for Christchurch?

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:07 pm

  80. i have many attitudes about manys things..good ..not so good and indifferent..and if you read my original comment it says what “you could become” and the word hatred is still your choice and i dont see where ive tried to tell you that you are full of hatred as you have done..perhaps you need lessons in reading

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:18 pm

  81. p,s tania..telling somone what they are and portraying them in a way is one of the biggest problems with the sexist family rort system ..i wouldnt be surprised if your a lawyer..they good at that

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:22 pm

  82. and when it comes to women in my eyes i am right and then all i read after that was how hateful i am..very typical response

    Comment by Ford — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:28 pm

  83. Ford I copied and pasted your statement:
    ‘all it would take for you to become a manhating cow is for some guy to piss you off and youll treat him the same as the rest of the feminist manhating cows..all females have a vindictive vengeful streak and have the potential and the means to ruin a man and you happen to be female’

    Crucially, you said “all it WOULD take” and “YOU’LL [you will] treat him the same as the rest of the feminist manhating cows.”

    So don’t now say that you said that I “COULD” becuase you did not. You said I ‘would’ and I ‘will’ which I think is unfair since you don;t know me. A man did piss me off when he took all my money and abandoned our child and yet I did NOT act in the way that you insisted I would.

    You say that “telling somone what they are and portraying them in a way is one of the biggest problems” and yet that is exactly what you did to me. You lumped me in with all the other radical feminists simply becuase of my sex.

    Ford, obviously you will continue to hold your opinions no matter what evidence is put in front of you so I will not be discussing the matter further with you. Perhaps when you are feeling less bitter towards women and more positive and constructive about empowering men then we will talk again.

    Best of luck to you in your struggles.

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:48 pm

  84. Tania,
    Spoken like a real lady! I think Ford should go some place quiet and consider his mental state.

    While he is accusing females, we shall judge him in the same way.

    When you point at another remember where your other 3 fingers are pointing.

    Please don’t leave us Tania. I am looking forward to your balanced posts.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 10:55 pm

  85. OK so I found som interesting information on CYFS (you may well have seen it). I’m not sure where to post it so I just thought I would pop it here. If there is a more appropriate place please let me know.

    OK, so here is the data from CYFS:

    1999/2000: Total notifications received – 19,521 / Total notifications requiring furthe action – 16,206

    2004/2005: Total notifications received – 50,488 / Total notifications requiring furthe action – 41,599

    2007/2008: Total notifications received – 89,461 / Total notifications requiring furthe action – 40,739

    Unfortunatley, the gender of complainants was not provided. I would expect that the vast majority of ‘victims’ who are reporting to CYFS are women though (anyone disagree?).

    Notice the steep incline in notifications received. Notice also that it was the vast majority which ‘required further action’ back in 1999/200. Notice then that in 2007/2008 that it was well under half that ‘required further action.’ To me this suggests that in recent times (and it appears to be getting worse rapidly) that there are more and more unsubstantiated complaints being made to CYFS.

    Through recent experience I’ve discovered the women are using reporting to CYFS as a tool to paint good fathers as bad fathers when it is simply not the case. Simply reporting a ‘concern’ to CYFS means that it is on paper and ends up in front of the lawyer for the child and must be investigated EVEN IF CYFS FIND IT TO BE UNSUBSTANTIATED! This seems ridiculous to me. If CYFS found there was nothing to investigate (becuase essentially the complainant has provided no evidence and could be fabricating the concern) then it should not have any bearing on custody… except maybe showing the complainant to be attempting to manipulate the system!

    I wonder if thecharp increase in complaints that do not require further action could be interpreted as more women trying to manipluate the family court? Darn I wish gender statistics were available becuase I HIGHLY suspect this is the case!

    Any thoughts on this? Anybody found any other interesting data or have similar experiences? Or most importantly, any advice on how to effectively deal with women doing this? It seems a hard thing to combat in such a corrupt and sexist system. Once the accusations have been made it seems mean are treated guilty until proven innocent, rather than the other way around!

    Source of data:

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 11:03 pm

  86. #84 Gwaihir: I won’t be going anywhere. I feel really passionately about this cause and all the other men here are very well balanced and logical.

    Through the experiences of my partner, and also a male relative of mine, I have recently received insight into how the system works in New Zealand. Previously I’d ignorantly presumed that in recent years men had been treated more fairly and that the sexist system was surely being fixed (becuase that would be logical!).

    I am so so sad (and indeed furious too) to find that is not the case and that women are successfully manipulating a corrupt system every day and getting away with it! It sickens and saddens me to think of how many loving fathers out there have been torn apart from their children for no good reason. It’s absolutely horrifying and it needs to be rectified.

    I’m also indescribably furious at the women who are abusing this system and not only doing men an injustice by treating them so appalingly, but furthermore are doing women an injustice too by representing our sex so badly! I feel ashamed on their behalf.

    Comment by Tania — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 11:13 pm

  87. Tanya (#83): Yes, that’s a wise decision. From experience, you won’t receive any acknowledgement of your reasonable points, only more and more childish reactions and increasingly aggressive abuse. Such nonsense is best ignored.

    Thanks for your intelligent thinking and good writing, it’s very much appreciated.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 19th May 2012 @ 11:16 pm

  88. Tanya (#85): One factor may be that police started routinely reporting to CYFS all ‘domestic’ call outs where children are present. This policy of ‘organizations working together to combat family violence’ may be well intentioned but it often ends up amounting to more oppressive state abuse and family wrecking. Unfortunately, the beliefs motivating and shaping the state interventions are largely based on false femaleist propaganda and invalid feminist models, and this dooms the interventions to be often unjust and socially destructive.

    I doubt that many more women are complaining directly to CYFS because it is feared by women and men alike. Although it appears to aim most of its violence at wrecking fathers’ relationships with children (because those fathers have shown disrespect towards these agents of the state or towards feminist ideology that, for example, defines normal disciplinary reactions as ‘power and control’ and ‘violence’), mothers also often find it to be a gestapo-like machine with little honesty, compassion or real caring about children’s welfare (the ideology is much more important). Really, for them to think they are helping children by ripping them from their home and parents simply because the parents might use occasional smacking does highlight the danger of giving them powers at all. Another common example of CYFS abuse towards mothers happens if a woman maintains a relationship with a man whom the social worker doesn’t like. She will be threatened with removal of her children unless she abandons him, whereupon she will be faced with the prospect of trying to take on the CYFS’ unlimited resources in the Family Court that will tend to believe other agents of the state.

    If indeed the later figures you quoted derive from routine police notifications this strongly suggests that the policy is simply wasting the resources of both organizations. They would be much better used on providing real support for struggling parents as well as adequate risk assessment and effective intervention in the serious cases. I am certainly aware that there are truly harmful situations for children that require solid intervention from CYFS and I realize their social workers do important work that’s very stressful.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 12:03 am

  89. Tania,
    Thank you for that data. I have taken the liberty of reposting it to

    Not so active a group but growing fast!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 7:59 am

  90. I remember many years ago hearing about some guys in Tauranga who were getting the sharp end of the family court. They got together and did silent protests in the public area of the court. A Ghandi style thing – passive aggression or whatever they call it. Did that ever get written about on menz?

    Comment by Down Under — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 8:02 am

  91. #84..nothing wrong with my mental state and im not surprised someone tossed that into to equation..and when i point i use 2 fingers

    Comment by Ford — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 10:03 am

  92. Down Under (#90): As I recall the protests weren’t particularly silent but involved some pretty silly stuff like calling female lawyers lesbians and judges Nazis. The protests didn’t seem to foster much public support, and certainly those working in the Family Court became totally deaf to any men’s issues in part because of the threatening nature of those protests. I’m not actually critical of those who protested because they were expressing their genuine anger, and I believe it’s better to get out and speak up badly than not at all, except for the most stupid ravings and actions. However, one might recognize that people’s efforts can be made more or less effective through the way they portray themselves to the public and to key players.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 10:50 am

  93. Tania (#79): The main man organizing these protests is Kerry Bevin. Please do call him on (09)4733747 to discuss a protest in Christchurch.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 11:00 am

  94. Thank you Hans for this action in challenging the powers that be.
    I wonder what stance the NZ Mental health Foundation take on this issue, and whether they may prove a viable allie for you.
    I’ve had a quick look at their website and saw this, dated 2008, which is now quite a while ago –

    Comment by Skeptic — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 11:11 am

  95. Hans #88, thanks for your insight. I was not aware of the change in Police procedure and certainly agree this would be a contributing factor to the steep increase of reports. You’re spot on about what that might be showing, that this process is a waste of resources. Surely this needs to be reviewed. That money and time could be spent much more effectively I am sure.

    I’m not sure I agree that there are not many women complaining directly to CYFS (though I see where you’re coming from becuase logic would dictate that it is a bad idea, however unfortunately it seems that many of these women do NOT base their actions on logic!).

    The reason I suspected that perhaps women were using it as a tool to manipulate the family court is becuase I have seen two instances of this happening (and I’ve only known anything about the family court and CYFS for a very short while so to have seen it happen more than once makes me wonder how frequently it does happen). I would love to have the statistics with regards to the complaint source (e.g. man / woman / police) to see which category of complainant is making these reports which then do not require any further CYFS action. I agree that a large portion is likely the police but I do suspect there are some women in there too!

    Unfortunatley, from what I have seen when the woman has made the complaint to CYFS, despite it being unsubstantiated (read: fabricated entirely), on BOTH occasions it has had a negative outcome for the man (e.g. total loss of acccess to children in one case and in the other case the documents going before the lawyer for the child, along with a dubious ‘report’ from women’s refuge and resulting in an emergency court hearing in which the man has to defend these rubbish allegations!)

    On that topic, what experiences have you guys had with involvement of Women’s Refuge? I used to think this was a good organisation but I now have serious doubts and suspect that they are more an anti-men organisation than a pro-women one. How is it that they can produce a ‘report’ for a mother based on NOTHING but her word and present it as fact?! Are these people taken seriously by the court? I suspect you are going to say that yes they are, but I am really really hoping not because it would be totally unfair and ridiculous!

    Comment by Tania — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 11:39 am

  96. Reply to Tania #95

    Your comments of….’On that topic, what experiences have you guys had with involvement of Women’s Refuge?’

    …… ‘but I now have serious doubts and suspect that they are more an anti-men organisation than a pro-women one’…You are very correct

    Might I suggest to you, to view and read these websites list below…

    Kind regards to you Tania”¦John Dutchie”¦Free at long last

    Also Erin Pizzey is one amazing women… I have most utmost respect for…

    I have personally email Erin Pizzey on a few occasions and always have received a very intelligent reply from her on issues I wanted her opinions on…

    So can I humbly suggest to you, if you feel the need to do so, that you email Erin Pizzey yourself if you have question/s to ask her about the subjects you have raised—believe-ultimately-destroy-family.html

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 12:22 pm

  97. Reply to Tania 95

    Your comment Tania of ‘The reason I suspected that perhaps women were using it as a tool to manipulate the family court is becuase I have seen two instances of this happening (and I’ve only known anything about the family court and CYFS for a very short while so to have seen it happen more than once makes me wonder how frequently it does happen). I would love to have the statistics with regards to the complaint source (e.g. man / woman / police’)’…Your suspicious on ‘a tool to manipulate’ are well founded ….

    Just have a little think here Tania, on what I am going to say ..It might sound ‘left field’,but sometimes you have to look out side the square box to see the bigger picture

    What I would intrigue to see in the ‘statistics’,is how many women employed at ‘CYFS’ have got a university degree in ‘Women’s studies’ …

    Many very powerful feminists are employed in that government department of ‘CYFS’…

    Just as there many very powerful feminists are employed in the following N.Z government departments they are the following…listed below….


    Child support department at IRD

    N.Z police force..

    Education department of N.Z

    And lastly, lets not forget the feminists employed at ‘The Ministry of Women’s affairs’

    Kind regards to you Tania”¦John Dutchie”¦Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 1:54 pm

  98. John,
    Thank you for the list of websites and your comments. I will certainly go and have a look. It is clear to me that there are indeed many destructive women who call themselves feminists in positions of power within various departments which is of grave concern. It is scary to see the sexist views permeating the family court system. Any court should be a place where decisions are made based on fact, evidence and reality, NOT hearsay, opinion and a manipulated and distorted version of reality. It’s truly horrifying to find that in many instances this simply is not the case. The worst part is that it’s not only the men who suffer but most importantly the children lose. The system is supposed to work in a way that produces the best results for our children but instead it seems far more focused on tearing families apart, particularly removing children from fathers. What a shame some judges can’t see through the facade to what is really driving the machine! You men who stay strong and continue to fight in spite of all this are so inspiring to me. Your strength is quite amazing.

    Comment by Tania — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 2:12 pm

  99. Is there a Ministry of Men’s Affairs?

    Comment by Tania — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 2:15 pm

  100. Reply to Tania#98

    Your comment Tania ‘Is there a Ministry of Men’s Affairs?’…’Tongue in cheek’…And just my wicked ‘Dutch’ unpolitical sense of humor

    What…!!!…Tut..Tut…Tania…Please hang your head in shame Tania for even to dare to suggest a ‘Ministry of Men’s Affairs?’ …Heavens forbid what other logical suggestion are you giong make Tania…L.O.L…

    That is a very naughty suggestion, and I wouldn’t mention that suggestion in the public arena in New Zealand if I was you Tania…You might be shocked at the backlash ‘you’ will received from the feminists

    Bang…You are spot on there Tania ‘but most importantly the children lose.’…And just to throw a curve ball at you Tania,but not done in nasty way…

    I wonder how many of those children grow losing the plot in there later years, because there
    wasn’t a loving and caring Father in there lives…..

    Kind regards to you Tania”¦John Dutchie”¦Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 2:56 pm

  101. Tania,
    Spot on Tania. There is a Ministry of Mens affairs – But don’t tell the Government. They are ignoring it hoping it will go away!

    Refer the Thread at and the first post in this thread. You are welcome at any event!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 3:03 pm

  102. Reply to Tania

    Two favors I would like to request here Tania and I hope you don’t mind me asking

    1/’Thank you for the list of websites and your comments. I will certainly go and have a look.’…I would like some honest feed back from you on what you think of those websites that I recommended to you…

    2/ I would also like you recommend this website to other decent women that you may know of….We can not achieve true ‘Equality’… For the sake of the children and to perverse the ‘family unit’ as in both Father and Mother of N.Z with out the help of other fair minded logical women

    Kind regards to you Tania”¦John Dutchie”¦Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  103. LOL yes a bit tongue in cheek indeed 😉 Can you imagine the outcry if there was a government Ministry of Men’s Affairs and not a Women’s one?! “Oh the sexism! Poor disadvantaged women!” But it’s all different when the shoe’s on the other foot isn’t it! This is sexism on a HUGE scale.

    John, no of course I don’t mind you asking. I’ll absolutely honour the two ‘favours’ you requested. In fact I will be doing these things as a favour to myself also because all women should be better educated on these issues, and should be presented with more balanced information rather than the feminist propoganda that is so frequently put before them.

    My daughter is being a handful today but I’ll have a more thorough look tonight as soon as she is in bed and get back to you ASAP.

    Comment by Tania — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 5:45 pm

  104. OK John (#94) here we go:

    1. Regarding her website: I need to look through this more thoroughly. However I have already come across much of it’s content in my research recently. E.g. the article “To say emotional abuse is as bad as violence insults every battered wife,” which I loved. I’m going to have a serious nosey through her website and then perhaps email her to discuss the concerns I have about the actions of the Women’s Refuge here and get her input. Thanks so much for directing me to her site. I can see at only a glance that it will be a valuable resource.

    2. The link to the Pizzey article: “Why I loathe feminism… and believe it will ultimately destroy the family.” Interestingly I actually happened to read this myself just a few days ago. I was blown away by her account. It was one hell of a life story to read.

    I love this part: “Harriet Harman’s insidious and manipulative philosophy that women are always victims and men always oppressors can only continue this unspeakable cycle of violence. And it’s our children who will suffer.” It is so spot on.

    However I felt unsure about this statement: “Indeed, the only thing a child really needs – two biological parents under one roof – was being undermined by the very ideology which claimed to speak up for women’s rights.” I agree with the part about feminism undermining the well being of the child but I disagree that a child ‘needs’ ‘two biological parents under one roof.’ I certainly hope children don’t ‘need’ that becuase my daughter will never have it.

    What I believe IS important is to have positive male and female role models in close proximity to the child. I don’t think this necessarily needs to be a blood-related parent. There are step parents who do a fabulous job and raise children to be wonderful human beings. And there are sole parents, fathers and mothers alike who do a great job of raising well balanced children also. And perhaps most importantly, there are plenty of families in which both biological parents are under the same roof (such as in Erin’s case) and yet they provide terrible examples and do an awful job of raising their children.

    Interestingly however, Erin is PROOF that even without good parents, some children are still capable of growing into wonderful people. And on the other side of the coin there are many children raised in exemplary conditions who turn out to be terrible people. Therefore, YES I think that a good family life increases the chances of a child evolving into a great adult, but I do not believe it is an absolute pre-requisite.

    3. OK next, the link to the Guardian interview article: “Domestic violence can’t be a gender issue.” I semi-enjoyed this article. I felt the reporter was a little soft though. She touched on the issues in the headline but did not delve deeply enough into the issue, or the cuase of the issue for me. Nor did it address any way change the view that women are the victims of domestic violence and men are the perpetrators. Don’t get me wrong, I thought it was generally a good read but just not strong enough for my liking. The narrative interview style in which it was written rarely helps to make a strong point come across as such.

    To make my view clearer perhaps, here is an article I read a few days ago on the same topic which I found to be much more powerful and engaging:

    4. OK and lastly regarding the YouTube video: As soon as I finished watching it, I added it to My Favourites. That interview was SPOT ON and really effectively highlighted the violent nature of the feminist movement and how it was really anti-men rather than pro-women. This is a person speaking from experience from having been within and her point of view is therefore extremely credible and powerful. She is so brave for speaking about rather thank getting caught up in the hype and jumping on the band wagon as so many other women did. SHE makes me PROUD to be a woman. I wish we had more like her.

    I hope that feedback helps. And I would like to thank you again for directing me to these places. I appreciate your kind assistance. Hopefully I have not rambled on too long… 🙂

    Comment by Tania — Sun 20th May 2012 @ 8:29 pm

  105. Reply to Tania

    Well Tania your co called ‘rambling’ wasn’t that bad…Honest …!!!!L.O.L

    and a big thanks on checking out those websites…

    I sincerely hope you do email Erin Pizzey…She is one hell of an amazing women… Oh by the way ,when you do email Erin Pizzey ,ask her on why she cancelled a plan trip to Australia …Her answer will shock you…..

    Oh yes,what a charming feminist this Harriet Harman’s is…

    I say this with no disrespect to you Tania,but I honestly think you don’t realized how many ‘Harriet Harman’s’ type of Kiwi feminists with that type of mentality ‘Man/Fathers are bad’..that are employed in N.Z government departments ..such as

    The family courts






    The justice system

    Your comment ‘Domestic violence can’t be a gender issue.’ I felt the reporter was a little soft though….Correct

    Your comment ‘but I disagree that a child ‘needs’ ‘two biological parents under one roof.’ I certainly hope children don’t ‘need’ that becuase my daughter will never have it.’…Yes I understand your ‘needs’ comments ….

    But Tania, I again I will say this with the greatest respect to you as a loving Mother….Your daughter will still need a positive Male influences in her upbringing…Such as in sports..Clubs…Education ,such as in your daughter having a Male school teacher..That is another issue I will raise with you later Tania, concerning the plight of the endangered male school teacher/s in western European society…..

    Let me know when you are ready for me to put you on to some other websites …That will make you think even more…..

    Tongue in Cheek….Which of course, will really piss off them ‘feminists’ that spy on this website…

    They must really ‘Froth’ at the mouth when they read my posts….Oh dear..I am so upset…Not……

    Tongue in Cheek …Hope my soft ‘Male Feminized’ side is not much for you to handle…

    Kind regards to you Tania”¦John Dutchie”¦Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 21st May 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  106. John,

    Thanks for your response. I certainly will be emailing Erin in the near future… at present trying to deal with the curve ball of a psychological report! Anyone got any advice on this? I’m struggling to have faith that they will see through the mother’s bullsh*t and manipulation of the children. I’m trying to stay positive but it’s scary that ONE person can have so much influence. I mean, what if this psychologist is a man-hater? We could be screwed.

    Anyway, back on topic…I (unfortunately) suspect you are spot on with this comment, “I say this with no disrespect to you Tania,but I honestly think you don’t realized how many ‘Harriet Harman’s’ type of Kiwi feminists with that type of mentality ‘Man/Fathers are bad’..that are employed in N.Z government departments.”

    To be frankly honest, in my previous naiveity I had presumed that the family court surely had improved in recent times… I am now fully aware that it has not. I wonder if my hope that there are some reasonable people in parliament (with regards to men’s rights) is based on a similar naivety since I am so new to discovering the horrible truth about the sexism committed daily against men in NZ. I thought we lived in a reasonable, good and just country d*mn it! It’s very sad to find that we do not.

    I 100% agree with your commen, “Your daughter will still need a positive Male influences in her upbringing.” I will ensure that this happens. I try to give her maximum exposuure to my brother, and she spends time with my father daily. Also my partner (not her biological father) is proving to be a fantastic role model, which I knew he would be from seeing him with his own children.

    Regarding your comment about male teachers… I look forward to discussing this further as I have some very strong feelings about it. I did 1/2 of my teaching degree (before changing career) and was saddened at how few men were training to be teachers. It’s no surprise though, considering we live in such a sexist country, that perhaps men are afraid of working in a position of authority with children becuase of the risk it will expose them to (the men, NOT the children).

    Interestingly, the worst teacher I had in my school life was a man. He made incredibly inappropriate comments and actions towards me and another girl in my class. We were 10 years old. However, I believe his cations are 100% unrelated to the fact that he was a man… his sex is inconsequential and a woman could just as easily have behaved in the same way.

    And on th other side of the coin, for the two years following that I had the BEST teacher of my entire schooling life and he was a MAN. I am still in contact with him today and although I already had a fabulous male role model in my father, the value of having such an excellent male teacher was massive I believe. Interestingly, I think many of the reasons (not all) WERE directly related to his sex.

    Men (and the natural masculine nature) are wonderfully suited to teaching in my opinion. I wish desparately that we had more male teachers in NZ.

    Oh I’m ready for more websites now! This has become fascinating (though admitedly terrifying) journey of discovery. I want to be armed with the best information so that I can assist my partner in the most valuable way.

    Comment by Tania — Mon 21st May 2012 @ 4:35 pm

  107. Reply to Tania #106

    And don’t forget Tania there are plenty of ‘Harriet Harman’s’ types feminists employed in media in N.Z

    Your comment Tania…’I try to give her maximum exposuure to my brother, and she spends time with my father daily. Also my partner (not her biological father) is proving to be a fantastic role model, which I knew he would be from seeing him with his own children.’…Great to hear that Tania

    Your comment Tania ‘his sex is inconsequential and a woman could just as easily have behaved in the same way.’…You are very correct

    When my daughter was in the third form at high school a lesbian teacher took a ‘special interest’ towards my daughter…I had a ‘quiet word’ with her, in front of the Principe and I made sure I had brought a witness (An ex police officer)..That lesbian teacher lost interest in my daughter real quick…!!!!

    Your comment Tania of ‘Men (and the natural masculine nature) are wonderfully suited to teaching in my opinion. I wish desparately that we had more male teachers in NZ.’…Do you know about the witch hunt of ‘Peter Ellis’ from the Christchurch Civic Creche case Tania…????

    Your comment Tania…. Oh I’m ready for more websites now!…Okay here we go ….Google these

    First one … angry harry and

    second one ..a voice for men and

    Kind regards to you Tania …John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 11:46 am

  108. Reply to Tania #106

    Tania when I used to have heated debates with radical ‘Harriet Harman’s’ types feminists who threw there feminist crap in my face with,… ‘all Men are rapists and pedophiles’…That comment left them wide open with my reply ‘Oh really…??? You mean tell me there are no women pedophiles…???…There feminists brain washed reply was usually …’No…!!! women are not capable of doing that,only men can be pedophiles’…How wrong they are…see this website below, link is below

    Kind regards to you Tania “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  109. #108..women are the worst offenders and they have to blame others

    Comment by Ford — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 2:54 pm

  110. Reply to Ford #109

    Tongue in Cheek here Ford…Maybe that’s why in N.Z there so many signs of ‘YOU GO GIRL’ its another form of western European women determination of been ‘Empowered’

    Again, Tongue in Cheek Ford..You realize of course the ‘Men’ will get all the blame of western society ‘Ills’..

    Kind regards “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 3:07 pm

  111. #110..yes john..blame others*men) and when we(men) dont accept it we get told we are in denial..they are masters of manipulation

    Comment by Ford — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 4:27 pm

  112. Dear Lord John! That is one hell of a list. I got to the bottom of the first page and thought ‘huh, that’s not so many…’ and then I saw it… page 1, 2, 3, 4 …. all the way to 13! Just goes to prove, sexual offending by people in positions of authority is NOT a gender issue. What distorted facts and figures these feminists must be looking at in order to draw the conclusion that only men do these things! Mental. I can’t imagine the extreme brain washing required to make someone genuinely make a statement like ‘No”¦!!! women are not capable of doing that, only men can be paedophiles.’

    With regards to distorted figures, here are some interesting excerpts (from
    Information about the low proportion of sex offenses committed by females is fairly consistent, at least when relying on data about female sex offenders known to the criminal and juvenile justice systems. Yet when various individuals are surveyed about their sexual victimization experiences, the incidence of female-perpetrated sex crimes is often higher and much more variable. For example, reviews of multiple sources of victimization data reveal that up to 63% of female victims and as many as 27% of male victims report having been sexually victimized by a female (see, e.g., Schwartz & Cellini, 1995).
    Collectively, the available information suggests that adult women and adolescent girls represent the minority of sex offenders. However, a lingering question remains as to whether these data truly reflect a relative under-occurrence or if female sex offending is simply under-recognized, with external factors contributing to what seems to be an under-representation of females as sex offenders. It appears that both may be true.
    In other words, much like crime in general, for which males comprise the vast majority of all arrests (FBI, 2006), there is no reason to believe that females would necessarily be responsible for a significantly greater proportion of sex crimes. On the other hand, there is evidence that sexual victimization perpetrated by females is likely to be under-identified – even more so than male-perpetrated sex offenses – for several reasons, including societal and cultural stereotypes, professional biases, problems with research methodologies, and unique dynamics that impact victims’ disclosures of these offenses.

    Comment by Tania — Tue 22nd May 2012 @ 8:11 pm

  113. Reply to Tania #112

    Tania let me know what you think of those websites that I recommended to you in my post of #107..Also I asked if you were familiar with the ‘Peter Ellis’ from the Christchurch Civic Creche case

    It would interesting as you seem to me that you have a good sense of fair minded ‘logic’…’Tongue in Cheek’…and just my Dutch wicked sense of humor …Shock horror I paying a western European woman a sincere compliment…Gee I getting soft in my old age…L.O.L…

    Your comment ‘the extreme brain washing’… Tania on a serious note..I will put onto a couple of websites when you are ready,that will make your jaw drop to the floor concerning the feminist brain washing…

    Your comment ‘On the other hand, there is evidence that sexual victimization perpetrated by females is likely to be under-identified’…You are very correct there Tania…But there is also another reason why there is ‘under-identified’concerning your above comment which I will direct you to some websites to explain why this is occuring in western society …Again when you are ready…

    Hope all with well with you Tania,as well as your partner…Please tell him, from me, who has experience the pure hell of the family court system….’Stay strong and never give up’

    Kind regards to you Tania “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 10:38 am

  114. Reply to Tania …

    My Asian lady partner found this website for you to see and appraise…see link below…However be warned Tania….

    The ‘narcissistic’ display of pure glee and delight shown by these western European women will make you sick…Maybe now you can understand why I have no desire whats so ever for a western European woman

    Kind regards to you Tania “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 11:00 am

  115. Reply to Tania

    This as been posted before on Menz….I don’t you know much about Sweden, but that country is a true feminist state….

    Ex prime minister ‘Helen Clark’ adored that country…Tongue in Cheek…I know why too…

    Again,on a serious note.. I have to warn you Tania …This ‘you tube’ movie is not pleasant to watch….

    Kind regards to you Tania “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 11:46 am

  116. Christchurch is a peculiar city. (I may be on shaky ground there 🙂 )

    Refer:- and for a pic

    Popular commentary at the time has it that Doug Gardener Was merely unconscious – not dead when buried, and the assistants in the considerable planning were members of Christchurch women’s refuge

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 12:40 pm

  117. #114..i see sharon osbourne lip sincting “i love it’..but we all know how fucked in the head her family is and that video is 1 more example of proof

    Comment by Ford — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 2:26 pm

  118. Reply to Ford#116

    Lets reverse this situation Ford….Lets say if was ‘Men’ fronting a T.V program and in directly they were making ‘fun’ of a western European women whose genital area was mutilated by her Male partner/boyfriend …

    Can you image the huge backlash those men would get in a western European country,and the western European women feminists in the media and in the government departments would have a field day…

    Demanding loudly that those vile male chauvinistic ‘Men’ to be sacked and reprimanded , and if possible they, the feminists would want criminal charges laid against those Men…

    Here is your usual typical Feminists ‘Double standards’ of your average western European women to make fun of a Male who’s has been castrated or his penis been cut off..

    They think its ‘funny’ and most of them will say ‘he most properly deserved it’…Oh well…Maybe this is another area that western European women cry out ‘YOU GO GIRL’..For we are now ’empowered’

    Kind regards “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  119. Sharon osbourne did say it depended on the reasons why the woman did it so that in itself is blaming the guy for bringing it on love it if she wanted a divorce and ozzy chopped her clit

    Comment by Ford — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 4:19 pm

  120. Reply to Ford #118

    ‘Tongue in Cheek’ here Ford…Tut…Tut..Tut…Good Sir,You are definitely not displaying your ‘Sensitive New Age Feminism Guy’ attitude Ford …Back to the feminist retraining camp for you,of course run by ‘The Ministry of Women’s affairs’

    Kind regards “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 4:28 pm

  121. its all about equality john

    Comment by Ford — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 4:31 pm

  122. Hi all, I just wanted to say thanks for all the links and let you know I am not ignoring you.

    I’m flying down to Christchurch to see my partner (for whom the situation seems to worsen every day!) to give him some support ( I love in Auckland at present). Once I’m down there I’ll have a look and post responses to the above.

    I see someone has mentioned Women’s Refuge here… we are encountering ‘difficulties’ (to put it nicely) with them. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these mental feminists? How can they write a ‘report’ for court based on NO evidence whatsoever? Will this be taken seriously?

    Also, I do not know the details regarding the Peter Ellis case but will certainly be having a look into this also.

    Thanks again and I look forward to exploring the info and videos and discussing them with you guys. What a priveledge it is to communicate with you all here; you’re all so valuable.

    Comment by Tania — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 10:38 pm

  123. John, Just watched the video of the talk show with Sharon Osbourne et. al. while packing and I am seriously disturbed. I felt physically sick. Disgusting. I wanted to high five the one woman who pointed out that it was sexist to be laughing at this. Damn straight nobody would be cracking jokes if a man did that to a woman… they would be furious if a men’s talk show was behaving the way they were.

    Comment by Tania — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 10:50 pm

  124. This is a great interview (from radio):

    Comment by Tania — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 11:04 pm

  125. Tania, Flying down? On your broom stick?????????

    I am aware of some shocking instances of abuse by CYF. Have a prowl around the motor camps see what’s going on! If necessary you work with CYFSTALK. ( No social workers, no paid staff. just goo advice and support!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 23rd May 2012 @ 11:43 pm

  126. LOL, no carseat on the broomstick so we have to go by plane. 😉

    Thanks Gwaihir, I’ll have a look at that… there is indeed a CYF report involved, though thankfully they (reasonably) decided there was nothing to be investigated.

    The Women’s Refuge on the other hand… what a nightmare! I cannot express my horror (with regard to their behaviour) deeply enough. Evidently any woman can walk in there and say anything she likes about a man (no evidence required) and they’ll whip up a report as if it were fact! Disgusting.

    I just finished listening to the radio interview I linked to above… it is lengthy but seriously good. I’d recommend it to you all.

    Comment by Tania — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 12:21 am

  127. Be interested to hear what you see Tania. A “Good?” book to read is “A city possessed” by Linley Hood. CYF and Reasonably are NOT synonymous, hope it works out OK.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 9:14 am

  128. x got everything she wanted on her word alone..court orders protection orders..all the details in court orders were at her whim..everything without a scrap of evidence..never had a police police reports or even a complaint..not until she used the pro orders to play more games then she called them

    Comment by Ford — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 9:15 am

  129. aeroplane is the modern day version of a broom..long,narrow and normally sit to the side..and more witches can share the same broom

    Comment by Ford — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 9:30 am

  130. Reply to Gwaihir

    Yes Gwaihir you bet to me to it, I was also going to suggest to Tania a must read book called ‘A City Possessed’… The Christchurch Civic Creche Case…. written by Lynley Hood

    Another website for Tania to appraise concerning the ‘Peter Ellis’ and The Christchurch Civic Creche Case….Link below

    That vile Kiwi feminist witch hunt of ‘Peter Ellis’ did a lot of damage to N.Z and to the image of a ‘Male’ been a Male teacher in early child care centers and even a Male school teacher at primary schools…That vile Kiwi Feminist witch hunt is still been felt today…Read this article,see link below…Read the comments that Kiwi Men have made concerning Peter Ellis,and how scared they are, to even dare to think of becoming Male school teacher in N.Z….

    Kind regards “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  131. #130..what man in his right mind would want to be a teacher..not hust a teacher but working in any enviroment with women around is putting your neck on the line..another game of russian roulette

    Comment by Ford — Thu 24th May 2012 @ 1:53 pm

  132. Reply to Ford #131

    Ford have a read of these article…You will it interesting quite,read some the comments that the guys have made…I think your average Kiwi guy is slowly waking up

    Kind regards “¦John Dutchie free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 25th May 2012 @ 2:53 pm

  133. #132..more psycho-babble mind is a complete waste of my rather watch paint dry

    Comment by Ford — Fri 25th May 2012 @ 3:57 pm

  134. Ford #128…. that is horrible, and terrifying. I am beginning to understand your strong feelings towards my species more every day! I’m so sorry that some evil wnch did that to you. My partner is facing exactly the same situation as you appear to have. We are working our asses off to hopefully get a better result than you did but this system is so broken I am very afraid! I’m going to look at the links re Peter Ellis this week. Thanks everyone.

    Comment by Tania — Mon 4th June 2012 @ 10:54 pm

  135. #134..welcome to my sure others have had a worse time than me but its not nice being lied about and manipulated for the last 17 years and having a noose hanging round your neck

    Comment by Ford — Tue 5th June 2012 @ 8:35 am

  136. a life with someone in the background that can manipulate and get whatever they want on thier word alone and has the gall and audacity to accuse you of anything to get what they want is not a pleasant way to live ones life but i live it for my kids..if she dropped dead tommorrow i wouldnt be able to find words to describe the sense of relief

    Comment by Ford — Tue 5th June 2012 @ 10:48 am

  137. #135&6 It’s so ridiculous that a woman can say ANYTHING and does not have to substantiate a word of it with evidence and it’s taken seriously! Well to be fair men can do this too (I know for a fact some do)… but it seems to be woman manipulating the system in this way 99% of the time. It staggers me that hearsay stands up in family court and is treated as fact! If anyone can say anything and it’s taken seriously what is the point of the system? Doesn’t this completely undermine the supposed purpose of the family court?! Disgusting… what the hell happened to sense and reason?!

    Comment by Tania — Tue 5th June 2012 @ 8:38 pm

  138. Ford… I guess you just have to trust that in the long run the children learn to see through the lies and will love you regardless of what poison their mother might create… not much comfort I know… but at least it’s something aye. That’s what I’m going to hold onto for my partner anyway! Argh… why are women so damn mental? It’s shameful. Apologies from my species!

    Comment by Tania — Tue 5th June 2012 @ 8:40 pm

  139. #137..manipulating sexist shit is what it is and women get away with it because the so-called fair system allows them to..and its big business..some people make alot of money the way it is run..i have absokutely no faith in the system at all in any area and the system can shove its courts and everyone that works in them up its fat judicial arse.

    Comment by Ford — Tue 5th June 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  140. Parental alienation is not taken seriously in this country and most likely never will be – that would require women to be held to account for their hatful minds and their insidious behaviour. And no they don’t always get over it; having had a daughter severely alienated in her early teens, twenty years later she still can’t deal with it. Other family members don’t believe she will ever get over it either. Not only is the father alienated the grandfather is also. One women’s hatred can go a long way and affect future generations, and this is what the family court endorses. The institution is a sick dog and the humane thing would be to put it down.

    Comment by Down Under — Wed 6th June 2012 @ 2:43 pm

  141. I am certain that many moons ago when the redoubtable Jim Bailey was in his prim an in depth study was done into the subject. Any body remember, or by chance have a copy? It included symptomatology, and a list of actions by the offending parent. I also seem to recall it being used successfully in the family court, enough for the court to recognise PAS as a contributor of relationship failure.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 6th June 2012 @ 4:46 pm

  142. Dear Tania #138,

    I guess you just have to trust that in the long run the children learn to see through the lies and will love you regardless of what poison their mother might create”¦

    One man I know, his 20 year old daughter committed suicide, after he had been getting to know her again for 18 months, after 6 years of successive sex abuse allegations. The judges and the legal workers were ok and enjoying spending their, actually other people’s money.

    Similarly, worldwide, quite a few children have lost their fathers to suicide, in the midst of sex abuse allegations. (Try searching for Moira Woods, pediatrician Ireland)

    Unfortunately all the compensation and appeals in the world can never set these situations right. It is better to get things right first time, but this doesn’t seem to suit the paramount interests of the legal workers….

    Alas, I am aware that custodial fathers sometimes alienate too, though fathers don’t get as much opportunity. Apart from the less opportunity issue, fathers can be just as bad as some mothers.

    Down Under #140, you are a gentleman. I don’t want to be humane.

    Best regards, MurrayBacon – axe murderer.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 6th June 2012 @ 10:06 pm

  143. i think lawyers have a particular outcome they want to acheive the minute a client walks into their office and how they acheive that outcome is irrelevant as long as they acheive it and get paid and in my veiw females being the worst

    Comment by Ford — Wed 6th June 2012 @ 11:06 pm

  144. Interesting comment Ford, I found women in the family court to be interactive and men to be reactive. What I mean by that is that women found being a bitch was natural, and men found it was just an easy way to make money.

    Comment by Down Under — Wed 6th June 2012 @ 11:59 pm

  145. All men have to fight our feminist dictatorship. Those who refuse will be tried for cowardice. We have to bring our feminist rulers and collaborators to justice, to pay for their crimes. IZ

    Comment by Ivan Zverkov — Thu 7th June 2012 @ 9:57 am

  146. MurrayBacon #142,

    Thanks for your comments. I’m so sad to hear about those examples. I know of some instances where the opposite has occurred and the family has come out the other side and the children have been able to rebuild strong relationships with their fathers. I hope this is not the minority and rather a common outcome (I’m saying I HOPE, NOT that this IS the case). Obviously there are tragic instances where the children and fathers don’t have the opportunity to get to that point and that is truly sad.

    I totally agree with your statement: “Unfortunately all the compensation and appeals in the world can never set these situations right. It is better to get things right first time, but this doesn’t seem to suit the paramount interests of the legal workers”¦” The idea that there may be a light at the end of the tunnel (which is what I was pointing out in post #138) can never take away the pain and unfairness of having to go through the tunnel, and in fact the fear of the possibility of never reaching the light.

    Although it’s unfair and horrible that men suffer in the family court, I maintain that it is important to keep hoping for a better outcome. Being in the midst of it with my current partner makes me feel as though it’s my duty to be the optimist. If I get too caught up in the doom and gloom (though it may well be reality) it won’t do him any good. This probably spills over a lot here and I am sorry if it hits a nerve with some of you. But I HAVE to keep hoping, otherwise we might as well give up this battle before it’s even begun and for the sake of his children, I REFUSE.

    Donw Under #144,

    I love this comment. Women DO seem to be evil more naturally than men, in a family court environment at least. It’s very often the women who start slinging lies about (and other general evil behaviours), and the men can only react to it. Men get dragged into court defending bullsh*t allegations adn don’t even get the opportunity to explain why perhaps the MOTHER is not a fit parent becuase they are far to busy defending the attack against them. It’s sickening.

    Ivan #145,

    I would love if you amended this statement to “All men AND GOOD WOMEN….” because it’s not just men who support his cause an the battle against the mental feminists.

    Comment by Tania — Sun 10th June 2012 @ 10:21 pm

  147. I’ll have to lend my voice to the conversation on the use of the word ‘Kill’ as the name of the protest. I suspect it will make us too easy to sideline and ignore.

    In negotiation to get the best deal you need your opening offer to be a bit outside what the other party will accept but not to far that you get dismissed as unworkable or a waste of time to listen to.

    It would be also very useful to engage people on an emotional level on why we are protesting. Even with guys, until it happens to them with their kids with or without the family courts involvement they have no idea on what is likely to happen to their childrens right to receive care from them upon separation.

    The 2001 North & South article hosted on this site communicates what can happen very well, something like that could be handing out to people in the vicinity so they get an understanding of what is going on and why change needs to happen.

    Comment by David Jade Young — Thu 21st June 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  148. David Jade Young, appears to take issue with murrays initial use of the word “Kill”

    I take it David (If I may be so familiar)you have never had the joy of watching your wife lie like a flat fish and thus have your children removed from you, sentenced to a period of indoctrination you may not accept, then be forced to stand by as your children are inculcated with beliefs alien to your own. All without any input from you. Then struggle for years to pay exorbitant sums of money to a person who was supposed to protect you,but seemed to do little more than down countless Latte’s. Then be forced to ay to have your children raised , while being forbidden to see them?

    You feel I am being harsh or exaggerating? Welcome to the world of the Family Court.

    Kill may be the wrong word, what about “Nuke it” or maybe educate it – with Napalm?

    Strong language to be true. But we deal with terrifyingly strong emotions!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 21st June 2012 @ 3:32 pm

  149. Reply to Gwaihir #148

    Nice post Gwaihir…I wonder if David Jade Young knows how many decent and loving Fathers that the ‘feminist’ controlled Family courts have ‘Killed’

    Kind regards John Dutchie Free at long last

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 21st June 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  150. Gwaihir, I agree it needs to change. My input was into the choice of words that would make the change more likely to occur, given that the majority of people have no idea on what the family court is doing.
    Then again i may be wrong, I am pretty new to this 🙂

    Comment by David Jade Young — Wed 27th June 2012 @ 3:53 pm

  151. I will be attending tomorrow as a mother who has seen her beautiful children once n 10months, my childdren’s father and myself (amicably seperated) rights were underminded by a without notice (and without evidence, truth or honorable reason) which gave my mother and her husband day to day care of my, then 3 and 4 year old.
    although seperated their father and myself still agree and desire for the children to be in my care and are still waiting 10 months into the situation for a hearing to fight for the rights to see and have our childrens custody…the initial order was based on a dishonest avfadivit and the intentions stated have changed and although it states specifically we should have contact no one id upholding that or any of the other many breeches to the order.
    I am jumping thru hoops…although seperated we are a family and we have been killed by family court ruling and to the upmost detrement to my babies…
    the only time i saw my children was toattend a pssycologist assesment which recomended the children transitioned to a prompt return to my care…and in the time frame recommended that time frame has mostly passed…i still have not sen my children…how is this ok????

    Comment by Sammy Sunshyne — Thu 5th July 2012 @ 10:14 pm

  152. #151..welcome to a mans world..get a court order and get the cops to go with you and enforce it..mind you in saying that i tried to get the cops to enforce a custody and access order when my x decided to dick me around and i was told by them it was getting old and i needed to get a new 1..the order was 2 yrs old

    Comment by Ford — Fri 6th July 2012 @ 10:36 am

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