The New Zealand Marriage Strike
One thing that gets little press is that New Zealand men are on a marriage strike. This is not something feminsists want to hear so it is not reported or is dismissed. Sticking their head in the sand is not stopping the marriage strike though.
The rate of marraiges has fallen sharply in the last 12 years according to Statistics NZ. The rate of marriage was 16 per 1000 adults in 1999. In 2011 it was less than 12 per 1000. The reduction in this rate has been accelerating. Since 2008 the rate has been falling by more than half a marriage per 100 every year. At some stage next year the marriage rate will be less than 1% and still falling.
Excuses like people are delaying marriage don’t explain it. The simple truth is that people simply aren’t getting married. The reason they aren’t getting married is because men aren’t marrying them.
Why would they?
The other issue is that more men are simply leaving the country.
many of the ones that stay seek out a foriegn bride.
Women are settling for de facto relationships.
This is why NZ legislation – particularly under Labour – traps men in de fcto relationships as default marriages. So that these men can be screwed over something that they did not intentionally sign up for.
We need to reverse de facto relationship legislation. it is morally reprehensible to legally bind someone to a contract that they never signed or agreed to based solely on their living arrangements.
The whole thing is designed to try to stop women experiencing the consequences of screwing men over. To counter the marriage strike. It wont work. it just delays things and makes them worse. Quality men will simply refuse to have any long term relationship with NZ women at all.
I hope NZ women enjoy their cats.
I feel sorry for my daughter. What a shitty future she has.
Im 44 divorced living with a hot Russian women. No intention of remarrying. Still fighting and being screwed by my kiwi ex wife for reasonable access to my children. Half the families at my childrens school broken. Its just a mess out there. What do you expect when government sponsor women to leave their marriages. My ex has been a student on the DPB clearing $700 a week for the past 3 years. What a lark. Contemplated family court but she was entitled to legal aid where I would have to pay something in the order of $30k. Screwed again.
Good cost cutting tip for the NZ govenment; Why not assume joint custody first and let a party prove the opposite to be so. No need for DPB, parents split access and cost of kids between themselves. Sorry does that make too much sense?
Excellent idea, protects children from solo parenting – fair towards couples who stay married and give the best care to their children.
#1..i think joint custody from point of separation is a great idea and if the other parent wants to contest it ..go hard..unfortuntely the govt wouldnt make as much money
Oh come on now. Get some facts
There is no emperical evidence that the fall in marriage is due to men refusing to marry.
Nor is it due to the existence of DPB – although that probably is the predominant reason divorce is so easy.
You do yourself no justice.
I firmly believe the reason marriage is so out of favour is simply because:
(1) religion has waned, and with it, the moral standard against simply living together;
and (2) women working.
Yes, that’s right. Women working. They can support themselves – they don’t need to be married in order to get by (ie they don’t need to be supported by a man); and they can easily support themselves when leaving a man. And they (unlike men, who accepted supporting a woman financially) don’t want to support a man.
Both partners working? The feminist mantra seems to be ‘what’s mine is mine, and what’s your’s is mine.’
Man working; Me not? You can support me.
Me working; Man not? I’m outta here – you’re lazy and why should I support you? I can support myself.
Yes, I agree – there’s an element of ‘me woman, don’t wanna marry you, coz I can support myself; however I still want your money when we separate, even though we weren’t married’…
So how many women wanna ‘marry down’ ? basically none. Therre was some study out of America recently on this.
Even though women are working, how many wanna ‘marry up’? Heaps. Just ask all those little girls who still wanna marry a prince.
When a man want’s a pre-nup (ie he’s got assets, she hasn’t), she’ll usually cry ‘if you really loved me …’.
A richer woman won’t marry a man without a prenup.
When in a relationship, the man takes any control over her income, it’s ‘domestic violence’.
When he withholds his income from ‘family income’, it’s also ‘domestic violence’.
All in all, don’t kid yourself – women are becoming better educated – that’s fact, and higher-income earning than men – the recent American study reported that. Richer women aren’t marrying men, because they work, are getting richer, and can ‘go it alone’. DPB is a useful tool to women, as is the domestic violence crap, that usaully secures the woman the family home.
There may be some men who are not marrying women – but I really don’t believe that is common.
#4..womrn marrying up = golddiger
No man in New Zealand these days is married as in a committed relationship. Period.
They may kid themselves they are, but no fault divorce laws put paid to that idea a long time ago.
So whether you believe there’s a marriage strike or not is something of a mute point.
At best men are married to the state and in an ‘I’m with you until I decide there are better options elsewhere and dump you WITHOUT any need for corroborated reason’ type relationship with women.
Personally, marriage, or even a de-facto relationship with a woman in any western feminist country such as New Zealand is strictly off the cards. It’s far too easy for the man to get shafted by female lies and a whole industry devoted to screwing men over when the relationship ends. It’s a stance I believe is entirely sensible and encourage other men to follow. You are worth it!
Some counter with the argument that not all women are like that (NOWALT) – that is tending towards shafting a man at break up time. They entirely miss the point that legally speaking ALL women are entirely like that, and their silent acceptance of the legal upper hand means they are very content with men’s lack of equal rights with regards to reproduction and family matters.
‘Unlike get some facts’ I’m convinced that a men’s marriage strike does exist in NZ too.
Small it may be, but I know other men besides myself in NZ who also aren’t interested in sticking their heads in the nuptial noose and hoping nobody yanks the cord.
I seem to recall a small survey (perhaps by a condom making company or some such) in which a significant proportion of NZ men reported themselves as sworn off relationships with women and fearful of being fleeced when a relationship broke down.
#6..there was a doco on a few years ago about a gay male couple living in hamilton..owned their own really nice modern home mortgage free..a mercedes..ate at all the nice restaurants and overseas holidays..if my memory serves me correctly i beleive they said one of the main reasons they had all that was because they were not in relationships with women…go figure
Reply to Skeptic#6
I think you could be talking about this article below,see link below
Stephen #14 02:13 pm Oct 24 2011
A feminized education system which no longer works for men. A 50% divorce rate, first time round. Higher percentage for second marriages. Thousands of men unilaterally kicked to the curb through ‘no fault’ divorce laws. Untold amounts of misery for decent fathers alienated from their kids by a femily caught system, then asset stripped paying ‘child support’ for up to 18 years. The most spoilt arrogant generation of women to walk the planet who have little or no understanding or interest in men’s issues. Get together with a woman in NZ and settle into a relationship? Yeah right.
#5 agree totally … Nothing new there.
#6 agreed, insofar as marriage is not worth the paper its written on. I have no proof, but I suspect most longterm relationships are broken by women, who no longer get what they want, or a better offer comes along . The same women who then seek to bleed the poor old men of every last dollar, for example by fighting against all odds, and against the general principals of the law, for the greater share of property. The domestic violence act aids and abets this by forcing men out of the homes often on the basis of a few tears and an allegation, or better still, a mere convincing feigning of fear.
#7 one – or even several – example(s) does not make a generalisation which is what vman asserts. That really is my point. Making a wholely unsubstantiable that marriage is waning because of men refusing to marry, is simply stupidity, and does no credence to the M R debate.
and to #8. Agree with your general sentiment. I’ll never hitch up with a nz girl again. I’d rather walk single to my grave.
All offers of beautiful russian brides – must at least speak english – please present to me …
#9..i believe alot of men are refusing to marry and do not want to have anything to do with western euro women..myslf included..one would have to be demented to do it twice
You speak much truth ‘Get the Facts’; don’t you realise that’s disallowed?
In relation to marriage rates decreasing, I think it would be quite a good idea to spread a myth that it’s due to men refusing to commit. The men’s movement doesn’t seem to have many myths whereas feminism is largely built on them. That’s not to say we should proliferate myths and thereby copy that bad habit of feminists, but this particular one would be a particularly sweet revenge.
I suggest we do a research study using similar methods to those that feminist advocacy researchers use to come up with ‘findings’ like 1 in 4 women are subjected to sexual or other abuse from males. Simple. We use only specially trained male interviewers and interview only men, use a ‘semi-structured’ interview technique that allows our interviewers to manipulate respondents and to extract the desired answers at a high rate, misrepresent actual answers by fitting them into pre-conceived answer categories, avoid all validation methods that might check the accuracy of the answers recorded, and define ‘marriage strike’ in a ridiculously broad way such that it includes all men who have ever declined any invitation from a woman, all men who have thought briefly about the risk of getting screwed over financially or in some other way, and so forth. Then publish the report under some organisation’s name (unfortunately, research of such low standards is only accepted by peer-reviewed journals these days when it supports feminist ideology) and make press releases confidently announcing that the findings prove men are increasingly choosing the marriage strike.
NB. This is a piece of sarcasm and parody.
Here’s one indisputable fact.
The idea of a NZ Men’s marriage strike is being seriously discussed and not one poster so far has come up a single reason why for NZ men marrying a woman should be an attractive proposition.
The opposite in fact. All posts to date mention disincentives for Men in NZ to marry – none of which have been challenged.
This wouldn’t have happened a few years back which is very telling – the meme of Men going their own way is obviously spreading.
and…….. when memes spread and catch hold you’ve got movement.
Single mothers ‘families’ (working mother and one child) and men going their own way is total victory for the people who funded and created feminism in the West.
Yes Doug a total victory against the family. I feel desperately sorry for my son who just wants to be with his dad.
Ive got a mate with 5 kids whose wife just ran off with another women. How about that for a victory for the feminist/lesbian movement.
The idea of a NZ Men’s marriage strike is being seriously discussed and not one poster so far has come up a single reason why for NZ men marrying a woman should be an attractive proposition.
Why fight it Skeptic?
Once men get that the whole dynamic has altered, and accept it, suddenly the world becomes your oyster – as long as you avoid women.
What would you rather do for a week in August? Go down to Queenstown ski-ing with your mates, or visit the Mrs. family in Palmerston North?
Go kayaking around French Polynesia during the school holidays, or take the kids to Disney grrl-power movies?
Have the lads around for a rugby weekend and share your home-brewed real ale, or finally get around to re-doing the bathroom that you’ve promised she-who-must-be-obeyed?
True, our race would die out if we all decided to enjoy our lives, but I wouldn’t try and convince everyone.
Frankly, the law is incentivising us single men to do what our true natures really want to do. It is only failing us in not giving us adequate warning of the dangers of the female to our happiness and well-being.
rc @ #16 says “The idea of a NZ Men’s marriage strike is being seriously discussed and not one poster so far has come up a single reason why for NZ men marrying a woman should be an attractive proposition.
Why fight it Skeptic?”
I think you missed the point rc. I’m certainly not fighting it at all. I’m merely pointing out that there’s a broad consensus of opinion being expressed on this thread that for NZ men marriage is not worth the risk.
Personally I encourage men to ‘marriage’ strike in NZ.
I put the word marriage in comas for reasons I expressed in posting #6 –
(No man in New Zealand these days is married as in a committed relationship. Period.
They may kid themselves they are, but no fault divorce laws put paid to that idea a long time ago.)
I think any man who gets married after knowing all the facts of men’s reproductive, family and material lack of rights is foolish.
The marriage strike is real and it is not small.
The simple truth is that people simply aren’t getting married. This can not be diputed.
There is no evidence that this is because women don’t want to get married. Many women want to delay marriage but pick up any women’s magazine or simply get out and talk to single women. They want to get married. The vast majority have every reason to want that.
Then talk to the men. Most of them are in no hurry to get married at all. Why should they?
The more these issues reach into the public discourse the less men will be prepared to get married. As if the rate wasn’t already falling off a cliff.
One key issue is that we need to roll back this marriage by default. You can’t hold a person to such a devestating contract that they never had any intention to enter into. It is an abuse of people’s human rights.
I for one would marry.
So long as she has equal assets, equal income, and is prepared to undertake equal chores around the house, including lawns and gardens and home maintenance, car maintenance etc.
Equal input in; equal output when you split.
Oh – and I think I’ll draft wedding vows that states “till agreement, or at least tupon the whim of either party, do we part”.
#19..i would suggest any male contemplating marriage/partnership with a female needs psychiatric assessment
#20 Here is where I disagree with you Ford. What they need is education. The vast majority of men are simply naive.
Then there are some of us who avoid any meaningful relationship with western women. There are millions of superior women out there. They are just not NZ women and they have not been brainwashed by feminsim. If one really must marry then defintely avoid a western woman and reside outside of New Zealand. Perferably outside any other ultra feminised country like New Zealand as well.
#21..ill rephrase then…i would suggest any male contemplating marriage/partnership with a ‘western’ female needs psychiatric assessment
To get the fact (#4),
The problem with your theory, is that it supposes that women prefer working instead of being with a man. That’s false. Women prefer much more being with a man than working. They will always prefer to marry a man than being a strong independent woman.
And very few women have high paying and fun jobs in the media. Most of them have shitty jobs. So, they are more than willing to catch a man and enslave him.
So, if the marriage rate decreases, this isn’t because of women, but because of men.
Yes I also disagree with GTF.
It is self evident that there are not queues of men waiting to get married. Talk to almost any single woman and she will confirm this for you. The marriage rate is falling. There is a man drought. These are facts. The remaining men are by and large not in a hurry to get married at all.
I agree that there is no moral obligation for marriage. Hence men don’t feel morally obliged to marry. This point is simply another way of stating the same thing. Men see there is no need to marry so less of them propose.
As for women working, what this has done is that most women delay thoughts of marriage. They still want marriage just the same. They just want to get married later in life. Men for the most part simply expect this to be the case now. They have grown up with an expectation that she will work. That doesn’t influence them as a group either way.
What you have under estimated is how many men are considering the risk of divorce. We have an entire generation where half the people have grown up in broken homes. Just consider that for a moment. It is extremely unlikely for a young man these days to grow up without either seeing his own father get screwed in divorce or hsi friend’s father. Now his girl friend wants to get married. He is forced to think about the risks.
In fact the marriage rate would be falling faster than it is except for two factors.
(a) There are a lot of new immigrants that still get married. For example a young Indian man or Chinese man is still going to be pressured by his parents into marriage. Usually to some girl from the old country.
(b) The immigration laws have eased slightly but basically if a man wants to import a foreign woman then realistically he is going to have to marry her. Technically he does not need to but in practice he does and he will.
These two factors are proping the marriage rate up. The reality for a NZ born woman is that her chances and options for marriage are limited and this trend is increasing. However you can be forgiven for not being aware of this. NZ women have not changed their behaviour to adjust to the new reality.
I read an aricle in Singapore Straight Times weekend before last that says there has never been so many marriages there than currently.
Last Saturday I drove about 200km through Central Vietnam and saw at least 20 couples having wedding ceremonies. Certainly looks a popular conjugal status here in Asia.
Yeah, it’s enough to make you want to rewrite Pink Floyd.
We’re all just lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground
And how we found
The same old fears
Living with the femi-nazi here
Dating a Russian girl is a wonderful experience for everybody. Russian females are charming and sociable. They are excellent housewives. They rank family and motherhood first. They are well-educated. Nearly all Russian women have a university or college education. They are good at many things and highly respect the traditions.Therefore, before striking up a close relationship, men should learn a few important things about Russian culture and traditions. It is necessary to discover some facts about the country, its history, politics and religion. This will indicate that you are full of serious intentions and are genuinely interested in the world around your potential girl-friend or spouse..
Oh Dear, what a delusion.
As if getting involved with a Russian woman is going to change the divorce industry in NZ.
Even if guys do get involved with Russian women there’s still the risk they’ll use the kiwi system to screw them over as countless kiwi women have done over the last couple of generations.
It’s funny. Ironically I’ve just finished listening to a thought provoking podcast called “Why men don’t want to get married”
Note: The start of the podcast is somewhat unrelated to it’s topic.
Skip to 8 minutes 14 seconds for the start of the topic proper.
@skeptic You’re so right. In New Zealand the choice is there for any woman. They can demand what they want. Walk off if they don’t get it. Screw you over with the court system we have – nationality has nothing to do with it. Seriously, the only safe place would be in a country that hasn’t converted to a feminist injustice system.
Feminism doesn’t give any consideration to male suicide either but we already know this. Life’s a bitch and then you die.
It is a good discussion, in this post about marriage.
I am not married, to my partner.
My partner and I got together, twenty years ago.
The date unchecked, but the first date was Easter Friday.
So even without a wedding date, we still have an anniversary.
For the occasion I bought a gift, the she didn’t expect.
And for the first time, in a long time.
I got a proper hug, and if I behave a promise of reward.
I have been married, so know we are the same.
Not married, but in every way married.
If not in many cases, more like marriage.
The marriage forced upon a person, is no comparison.
The arrangement like the mail order bride, is no comparison.
For me most importantly, have have a person I trust.
The thing is, falling in love and pairing up is natural.
So even without marriage, it would still happen.
The caveman, would have still paired up.
So the institution of marriage, serves a different purpose.
But we live in a world, where law becomes blind to it.
My relationship, equal to a marriage to outcomes.
So you can see why, marriage rates have fallen.
They have lost its meaning, or even it’s reason.
Remaining is an expensive party, or false sense of ownership.
Since marriage, is in effect automatic.
The date we got together, marked in law.
What then has culture, made of the marriage.
Could law now correct itself, with a new law.
That corrects the indifference, with a legal difference.
Marriage actually having a reason, and meaning.