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FUD Submissions

Filed under: Child Support,Domestic Violence,Gender Politics,General,Law & Courts,Sex Abuse / CYF — MurrayBacon @ 11:37 pm Sun 7th April 2013

Fear Uncertainty and Darkness (FUD)

Instead of addressing the problems and looking for solutions, it seems that the beneficiaries in the existing familycaught$ system are distracting our attention away from the required outputs and a system for achieving them at a sensibly low cost.

Family Court Proceedings Bill Submission Kitset

Family Court Proceedings Bill Submission Kitset – Dark Side

I was woken by pain, to give an injection. As occasionally happens, it was hard to get back to sleep. I tried counting sheep, but got into the millions, without any sign of sleep. It wasn’t so pleasant as the drought has made them so skinny. I remembered the Right Hon. Frederick Dagg suggesting to listen to Parliament as being a good means of escape into the nether netherlands.

Being late at night and in the weekend, that was never going to work. So I looked at the Parliamentary website. Even with practically no-one looking at it, it was still running at a honourable, gentlemanly pace, downright slow even. Quite good when all you want is to get back to sleep.

The Law and Justice Committee has put most of the submissions onto it’s website.

Submitters fell into several predictable groups

end users of familycaught$ services – want service at unreasonably low cost
Mother advocates
Child advocates
Father advocates

Citizens concerned for fellow citizens
Concerned for children being protected from darkness and fathers
Concerned for parents with mental health problems
Concerned for parents with financial problems (legal bills)

People who are employees of the familycaught$ industry – want service at unreasonably high cost

legal workers
legal workers – judges


  1. I could not see any social contribution in any of the submissions from the judges. Although much of their comment is sensible or true, given the present situation in NZ, their comments didn’t offer a single idea for improving the output quality or reducing the financial cost to Government and citizens. The truth, but very far from the whole truth. In other words, they were defending their performance and problems thereto, as being the best that could be achieved.

    All of their ideas were based on self congratulations, claiming that they are well respected internationally (by people in the same trade as themselves). I cannot see how that should be read as any form of independent evaluation or endorsement.

    I would see this as that they would not look at improving their quality or cost effectiveness. This being the case, they are the problem and not any part of a solution. They would need to be replaced completely, as part of the final solution. I am always suspicious of people who spend more time telling you how good they are, than working.

    These judges have been dredging up the same, stale old promises for 30 years. Thus society must take heed that they are talking and promising, but being careful not to action these promises. After 30 years of wasted time, we need people who will put improvements and cost reductions into action. Dithering about has never been useful.

    Fresh Ideas Aimed at Improving the Output Quality and Cost Effectiveness of familycaught$

    Generally, the best submissions didn’t present any new ideas. In fact many of these ideas have been suggested through the last 30 years by familycaught$ judges, but for talking about, rather than doing! Many of the ideas have been well known for many centuries.

    The Parliament website often runs rather slowly, so it can be very slow to work your way through to find the submissions that you are looking for.

    To help you, I have put links in to the more interesting submissions. They are pretty much all dull as old dishwater, so to save you from having to wade through all of the repetition (especially in the legal worker’s submissions, lawyers and judges alike) I have highlighted the submissions that are a bit more original than the boring rest.

    Grace Haden -Transparency New Zealand Limited investigator citizen
    In her oral presentation, Grace spoke about parents dealing with familycaught$ being driven insane, ot to suicide and made unproductive by artificial stress in familycaught$.

    Steve Taylor, Director, 24-7 Ltd Counsellor

    A.M.Joanne Neilson social work student

    AnatolyKern self represented father

    Annie Meates citizen makes observaion about familycaught$ handling of DV

    Anonymous6 brilliantly written observation of social value of familycaught$

    Submission by Craig Jackson psychologist on the proposed changes to the role of the registered psychologist as specialist report writer to the Family Court

    Oral submission by Craig Jackson psychologist to the Select Committee Supplementary


    Gary Owen Burgess self represented litigant


    JeremyDaley of Harman’s Lawyers Christchurch Shaken and not stirred comments about Judith Collins Minister of something or other. Quite astonishing comments leaking out from a legal profession in almost as much crisis as street prostitution, which also needs upgrading.

    I still have more to read yet. Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 12:05 am

  2. HansLaven psychologist

    Julian Price believes that it is possible to do away with CYFs and change over all parenting agreements to 50% / 50% shared parenting

    Embarrassingly low quality submissions from overfed underworked [largely funded by] Government workers
    (They are listed here, so that you can make your own judgement. I am not listing them as an indication of their value or merit. The low quality largely results from addressing a problem which spans human psychology, biology, child development, law, household economics and negotiation, using only skills from one narrow professional skill.)

    Families Commission

    Submission of the Family Court Judges of New Zealand

    Submission by the Human Rights Commission

    Mental Health Foundation

    New Zealand Law Society

    judge paul von diddleson


    Christchurch Family Court Judges


    Curious submission by Rachael Rotherham employed by McVeigh Fleming, presenting self represented litigants as submitting irrelevant material.

    Well, I am starting to get drowsy from the boring submissions, just what is needed right now.
    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 12:32 am

  3. Sleep is rapidly taking over. It is always “spot the gaps”. What are the gaps, what do they mean?

    Lawyers who did not make any submission:

    In several cases where another lawyer from the practice had made a submission, I gave them the benefit of the doubt, that they might have contributed. Late at night, so I apologise if I have made any mistakes. (This list is not intended as advertising, in any way.)

    Adrian Stone
    Adrian Tisch
    Adrianne McLean
    Adrienne Edwards
    Ainslie Hewton
    Akeripa Seumanutafa
    Alan Broadbent
    Alan Davies
    Alan Gluestein
    Alan Goodwin
    Alan Johnston
    Alan Little
    Alastair Logan
    Alethea Lombard
    Alex McDonald
    Alexandra Beaumont
    Alison Douglass
    Alison Jones
    Alison King
    Alison McEwan
    Alison Souness
    Alistaire Hall
    Alister James QSO
    Allan Cooke
    Allison Adams
    Amanda Donovan
    Amanda Iles
    Amanda Kennedy
    Amanda Morgan
    Amber Parlato
    Andrea King
    Andrea Manuel
    Andrew Clemow
    Andrew Easterbrook
    Andrew Finnie
    Andrew Gallie
    Andrew Henderson
    Andrew Watkins
    Andrew Woods
    Angela Bean
    Angela Corry
    Angela Davis
    Angela Grant
    Angela Morgan-Roberts
    Angela Reeve
    Anil Jaichand
    Anita Chan
    Aniva Hansen
    Ann Fass
    Ann Gardner
    Ann Leonard
    Ann Wilson
    Anna Carbon
    Anna Jane Pollett
    Anna Skellern
    Anna Stevens
    Anne Earl
    Anne Hinton QC
    Anne Montgomery-Lee
    Anne-Marie Percy
    Annette Gray
    Anthony Morahan
    Anthony Robinson
    Anthony Whitcombe
    Antoinette Vujnovich
    Antonia Fisher
    April Kelland
    Arama Ngapo-Lipscombe
    Arthur Fairley
    Ashima Budgoojar
    Ashley-Jayne Lodge
    Audrey Seaton
    Barbara Collis
    Barbara Knowles
    Barry MacLean
    Belinda Fletcher
    Belinda Inglis
    Ben Snedden
    Bernadette Farnan
    Bev Connors
    Bev Roche
    Bevan Coombes
    Beverley Alexander
    Beverley Pearce
    Bill Herbison
    Blair Strang
    Bob Perry
    Brenda Thom
    Brendan McConnell
    Brett Daniell-Smith
    Brian Carter
    Brian Fletcher
    Brian Gubb
    Brian Kilkelly
    Brian Pelham
    Brigham Nordstrom
    Brigid Clinton
    Brigid Ward
    Bronwen Klippel
    Bruce Andrews
    Bruce Boivin
    Bruce Corkill QC
    Bruce Dell
    Bruce Wilson
    Bryan Yeoman
    Bryony Millar
    Bryony Sloane
    Cara Gelston
    Carla Leader
    Carlyle Gibson
    Carmen Jillett
    Carol Hannagan
    Carol Powell
    Carole Curtis
    Caroline Hannan
    Caroline Hickman
    Caroline McCarthy
    Caroline Rieger
    Carolyn Bielby
    Carolynn Bull
    Catherine Cull
    Catherine Lintott
    Catherine Moody
    Catherine Quin
    Catherine Starr
    Catherine Wilson
    Cathy Flynn
    Catriona Doyle
    Chanel Gardner
    Charles Southall
    Charlotte Becker
    Charlotte Clifford
    Cherie Hainsworth-Powrie
    Chris Fogarty
    Chris Grenfell
    Chris Jones
    Chris Lord
    Chris Nicholls
    Chris Robertson
    Chris Robertson
    Chris Sygrove
    Chrissy Armstrong
    Christina Keil
    Christina Lee
    Christina Leech
    Christopher Dellabarca
    Christopher Podwin
    Christopher Twigley
    Claire O’Donnell
    Claire Price
    Claire Reynolds
    Clara Matthews
    Clare Murphy
    Claudine Dupuy
    Clayton Williams
    Cleland Murdoch
    Clifford Robinson
    Clinton Light
    Colette Mackenzie
    Colin Abernethy
    Colin Pidgeon QC
    Colleen MacLeod
    Colleen Moore
    Corin Merrick
    Craig Boyes
    Cushla Webster
    Cynthia Bluett
    Dale Lloyd
    Dana Holbrook
    Danielle Christoffersen
    Danielle Williamson
    David Barry
    David Brett
    David Brown
    David Dowthwaite
    David Graham
    David Iggulden
    David Jury
    David More
    David Parker
    David Polson
    David Rimmer
    David Salter
    David Scott
    David Venter
    David Walker
    David Woodbridge
    Debbie Bryan-Lamb
    Debbie Dunbar
    Debbie Ericsson
    Deborah Hollings QC
    Deborah Sim
    Denise Evans
    Denise Woods
    Dennis Standring
    Dianne Forgeson
    Dianne Martin
    Dinah Kennedy
    Dineen Grantham
    Dominic Dravitzki
    Don Kennedy
    Donald Fuller
    Donna Carroll
    Donna Cherry
    Donna Wingham
    Dorothy Bogers
    Dorothy Owen-Tana
    Dorothy Stewart
    Dr John Gray
    Dr Mark Gazley
    Duncan Walker
    Ed Johnston
    Elise McCabe
    Emily Gendall
    Emma Cooney
    Eoin Cameron
    Eugenie Laracy
    Eva Ho
    Eva Kuo
    Eymard Bradley
    Fazilat Shah
    Fenella Devlin
    Ferne Bradley
    Fiona Ashcroft
    Fiona Cowan
    Fiona Emery
    Fiona Mackenzie
    Fiona Patterson
    Fiona Thompson
    Fran Taylor Boyd
    Frances Gush
    Frank Freeman
    Gaeline Phipps
    Garry Barkle
    Garry Spooner
    Gayle Williams
    Gaylyn Cannon
    Genevieve Denize
    Geoff Harrison
    Geoff Kean
    Geoff Rothwell
    Geoffrey Jenkin
    George Ireland
    George Linder
    George Swanepoel
    Georgie McIntosh
    Georgina Lawrenson
    Gerald Nation
    Geraldine Whiteford
    Gerard De Courcy
    Gerard Letts
    Gerard Molloy
    Gerry Deacon
    Gillian Spry
    Gina Cole
    Glenda Murphy
    Glenn Mason
    Gordon Hart
    Graeme Mansfield
    Graeme Stanton
    Graham Coumbe
    Graham Day
    Graham Takarangi
    Grant Amer
    Grant Dowland
    Gray Cameron
    Greg Clarke
    Greg Kelly
    Greg Milicich
    Greg Webster
    Greg Woollaston
    Gregory Keene
    Gregory Thomas
    Haam Raumati
    Hamish Senior
    Heather MacColl
    Helen Sumich
    Helen Tyree
    Henny Fairgray
    Hugh Perry
    Ian Parker
    Ian Todd
    Ilati Vukona
    Indira Sirisena
    Inger Blackford
    Ingrid Squire
    Isaac Hikaka
    Isabel Mitchell
    Jackie Woolerton
    Jacqueline Blake
    Jacqueline Stephenson
    James Berkett
    James Simpson
    James Takas
    Jamie Steele
    Jan Avery
    Jan Naish-Wallis
    Jan Wasey
    Jane Anderson
    Jane Argyle
    Jane Connell
    Jane Greenhill
    Jane Hunter
    Jane Hunter
    Jane Signal
    Jane Walker
    Jason Wren
    Jaya Chittenden
    Jean McCormick
    Jeanette Mehrtens
    Jeff Walker
    Jenifer Strauss
    Jennie Hawker
    Jennifer Anderson
    Jennifer Perry
    Jennifer Wademan
    Jenny Dawson
    Jenny Grant
    Jeremy Glasgow
    Jerry Noble
    Jess Babe
    Jessie Hunt
    Jim Guest
    Jim Meates
    Jo Bates
    Jo Hambleton
    Jo Hosking
    Jo Naidoo
    Jo Robertson
    Jo Watson
    Joan Davis
    Joan Key
    Joan Rotherham
    Joanna Jordan
    Jo-Anne Thomas
    Jocelyn Cooney
    Jodi Ongley
    Jodie Foster
    Joe O’Neill
    Johan Niemand
    John Adams
    John Bannerman
    John Brandts-Giesen
    John Dean
    John Donkin
    John Douglas
    John Evans
    John Farrow
    John Gwilliam
    John Hickey
    John Logie
    John Mather
    John Mathieson
    John McDowell
    John McGlashan
    John Millar
    John Pringle
    John Ray
    John Ross
    John Rust
    John Samuel
    John Sandston
    John Waddington
    Jon Olphert
    Jonathan Everist
    Jonathan Kay
    Jonathan Natusch
    Jonathan Nicholson
    Jonathan Ruthven
    Jonothan Briscoe
    Judith Daniell
    Judith Flett
    Judith Hounsell
    Judith McMillan
    Judith Walshe
    Judy Restieaux
    Juenith McIntosh
    Julia Graham
    Julia Sanders
    Julie Mettrick
    Julie Millar
    Julie Young
    Juliet van der Oord
    Justine Baird
    Karen Dennison
    Karen Lindberg
    Karen Monet
    Karen Pearce
    Kasey Templer
    Kate Dougherty
    Kate Leys
    Kate McKenzie-Bridle
    Kate Muir
    Kate Sullivan
    Kate Yarrall
    Kathleen Byrne
    Kathryn Crooks
    Kathryn Hayman
    Kathryn Lellman
    Kathryn Vesty
    Kathy Jackson
    Katie Graham
    Kay Hoult
    Keith Hales
    Keith Young
    Kelly Marriner
    Kenneth Marshall
    Keri Kereru
    Kerrie Heaysman
    Kerry Knowles
    Kerry O’Brien
    Keryn Broughton
    Kevin Casey
    Kevin Muir
    Kim Holden
    Kim Kyle
    Kim Starnes
    Kiri Rademacher
    Kiriana Tan
    Kirstin Monk
    Kris King
    Kristy O’Connor
    Lana Paul
    Lance Pratley
    Lauren Pegg
    Lavanya Dunraj
    La-Verne King
    Lee Goffin
    Lee Jack
    Lee Stevens
    Len Andersen
    Letizea Ord
    Libby Lockhart
    Liliana Bracanov
    Lili-Marina Stanley
    Linda Miles
    Ling Wang
    Lisa La Mantia
    Lisa Thorsen
    Lisa Tregenza
    Lisa Willis
    Liz McKenzie
    Liz Ross
    Lloyd Collins
    Lois Flanagan
    Lope Ginnen
    Lorraine Lipman
    Louis Te Kani
    Louise Elder
    Louise Laugesen
    Lucinda Aboud
    Lynda Frew
    Lynda Kearns
    Lynda Manning
    Madeleine Flannagan
    Madeleine Recordon
    Malcolm McKenzie
    Mandy Rusk
    Maninder Sidhu
    Manisha Saini
    Maree Hayward
    Maretta Twentyman
    Margaret Casey
    Margaret Lewis
    Margita Grins
    Margot Harkness
    Maria Hamilton
    Maria Hoebergen
    Maria Kazmierow
    Marian Whyte
    Marieke van den Bergh
    Marie-Therese Egan
    Marilyn Gilchrist
    Marion Anderson-Ulu
    Mark Bullock
    Mark Callaghan
    Mark Dobson
    Mark Duston
    Mark Patterson
    Mark Tolich
    Mark Vickerman
    Marlo Greenhough
    Marnie Blank
    Martin Bradley
    Martin Hine
    Mary Falloon
    Mary Jeffcoat
    Mary More
    Mary Redington
    Mary Shanahan
    Maryanne Crapp
    Matthew Wright
    Maurice Casey
    Max Gomas
    Megan Dick
    Megan Leaf
    Megan Wills
    Melanie Baker
    Melanie O’Neill
    Mele Kava
    Melissa Sandom
    Merridy Gordon
    Merrin Gill
    Michael Hay
    Michael McIvor
    Michael Mika
    Michael Morris
    Michael Robinson
    Michael Roots
    Michael Scott
    Michaela Greaney
    Michelle Cecile
    Michelle Chisnall
    Michelle Woods
    Mike Basil-Jones
    Mike Curtis
    Mike Dodds
    Mike Hardy-Jones
    Minka Bodde-Phillips
    Miranda Harvey
    Miranda Rout
    Miriam Arnet
    Miriam Menzies
    Miriam Schumacher
    Moevao Faimalie
    Murray Cochrane
    Murray Earl
    Murray Jordan
    Natalie Palmer
    Natalie Quirke
    Natasha Simpson
    Nazmeen Rasheed
    Neil Johnstone
    Nerida Mulvey
    Nevan Percy
    Nicholas Birdsey
    Nicholas Burley
    Nickie Bond
    Nicky Grimes
    Nicky Sinclair
    Nicky Wise
    Nicola Ebert
    Nicola Roberts
    Nicola Vryenhoek
    Nicola Williams
    Nicole Ironside
    Nicole Murphy
    Nicole Walker
    Nicolette Bodewes
    Nikki Burley
    Nina Elliott
    Nina Hood
    Nisha Dahya
    Noel Rayner
    Noela Remmerswaal
    Nona Benner
    Nora Michael
    Norman Sainsbury
    Norman Scott
    Ophir Cassidy
    Pam Harvey
    Pam Small
    Pamela Williamson
    Patricia Lavus
    Patricia Wardill
    Patrick Molloy
    Paul Broatch
    Paul Cheng
    Paul Ellicott
    Paul Gallagher
    Paul Gascoigne
    Paul Genet
    Paul Maskell
    Paul McNabb
    Paul Phillips
    Paula Anderson
    Paula Sullivan
    Paulette Main
    Paulette Petelo
    Pauline Nidd
    Pauline Shoemack
    Penny Henderson
    Penny le Page
    Peter Craighead
    Peter Egden
    Peter Fuscic
    Peter Harrison
    Peter Headifen
    Peter Langdon
    Peter Maciaszek
    Peter McCutcheon
    Peter O’Donnell
    Peter Oliver
    Peter Redpath
    Peter Richardson
    Peter Wetherall
    Phil Clarke
    Philip Dreifuss
    Philip Hope
    Philip Miller
    Philippa Tucker
    Phoebe Bromiley
    Phyllis Strachan
    Priscilla Kirk
    Prue McGuire
    Raajan Sami
    Rachael Adams
    Rachael Adams
    Rachael Dewar
    Rachael Webb
    Rachel Lohrey
    Rachel Paul
    Rachel Smyth
    Rachelle Cavanagh
    Raewyn Sporle
    Rajan Rai
    Raukawa Simon
    Raylee Harley
    Raymond Hovell
    Rebecca de Farias
    Rebecca Dean
    Rebecca Holm
    Rebecca Murphy
    Rebecca Roukema
    Rebecca Teirney
    Rebekah Webby
    Reuben Gubb
    Rhonda Evans
    Ric Sinisa
    Richard Bedford
    Richard Gay
    Richard Jerram
    Richard Lang
    Richard Pidgeon
    Richard Smith
    Richard Sutton
    Richard Swarbrick
    Rick Grayson
    Rob Collis
    Rob Somerville
    Robb Newberry
    Robbie Lavën
    Robert Hacking
    Robert Handley
    Robin Jones
    Robyn Loversidge
    Robyn von Keisenberg
    Rochelle Johnson
    Rod Hooker
    Roger Clark
    Rohan Cochrane
    Rosaline Fuatai
    Rose Wilson
    Rosemary Carruthers
    Rosemary Cox
    Ross Dillon
    Ross France
    Ross Knight
    Royal Reed
    Russell List
    Russell Walker
    Sacha Nepe
    Sally Buckenham
    Sally McMillan
    Sandi Bailey
    Sandra Alofivae
    Sandra Heney
    Sandra Millar
    Sao Timaloa
    Sara Gracia
    Sarah Bush
    Sarah Duncraft
    Sarah Fitchett
    Sarah Heald
    Sarah Holder
    Sarah Hughes
    Sarah Ineson
    Sarah Little
    Sarah Sinclair-Taikato
    Sarah Vyle
    Sarah-Jane Telford
    Sean Kelly
    Sean Quinn
    Selina Trigg
    Shane Robinson
    Sharee Christensen
    Sharon Chandra
    Sharyn Otene
    Shaun Gifford
    Sheila McCabe
    Shelley Sage
    Shelley Stevenson
    Sheridan Emerson
    Sheryle Proctor
    Sija Spaak
    Simon Meikle
    Simon Mitchell
    Simon Shamy
    Simon Travers
    Simon Whitehead
    Sione Fonua
    Sonja Clapham
    Stephanie Aitken
    Stephanie Ambler
    Stephanie Burlace
    Stephanie Larkin
    Stephanie Marsden
    Stephanie Northey
    Stephanie Rose
    Stephen Clews
    Stephen Gill
    Stephen Hembrow
    Stephen McCarthy
    Stephen Munro
    Stephen Ross
    Stephen van Bohemen
    Steve Macbeth
    Steve Slade
    Steve Taylor
    Steven Kirkeby
    Stuart Smith
    Sue Barber
    Sue Barnett
    Sue Clark
    Susan Hayward
    Susan Hurley
    Susan Marks
    Susan Pearson
    Susie Houghton
    Susie Tait
    Suzanne Coffey
    Suzanne Robinson
    Tania Belz
    Tania Cook
    Tania Davis
    Tania McKenzie
    Tania Tetitaha
    Tania Williams Blyth
    Tara Hurley
    Tara Vanderkolk
    Tarryn Rea
    Tenille Homes
    Terangi Bartlett
    Terena Wara
    Teresa Lawrence
    Teresa Penman
    Terry Kopua
    Tim Black
    Tim Braithwaite
    Tim Lancaster
    Tim Twomey
    Tina Williams
    Toni Brown
    Toni Nelson
    Tony Greig
    Tony Krouk
    Tony Lendrum
    Tony Sweetman
    Tony Thackery
    Tracey Gunn
    Tracey Norton
    Tracy Johnston
    Traicee McKenzie
    Trudy Robertson
    Vaioleti Ho Kum
    Vanessa Bruton
    Vao Gale
    Vicki Thorpe
    Victoria Anderson
    Vimlesh Anand
    Virginia Mills
    Virginia Pearson
    Vonja Young
    Walter Swanson
    Warwick Heal
    Wende Bennetti
    Wendy Weal
    William Dean
    Yuet Fah Wu
    Zaheda Malkawi
    Zandra Wackenier
    Zelda Tope

    Cheers, MurrayBacon – axe murderer.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 12:35 am

  4. Most of the secret submissions have not shown up on the website, in any form. Adam Cowie’s submission has also not shown up, despite the Committee stating that they would change their mind and allow him to make a presentation.

    I wonder what the women secret presenters said?
    It is hard to reconcile the relationship between men’s suicide rates and women’s suicide rates to the way Government says it tries to treat men and women?

    It is always hard to spot the gaps.
    Cheers – over and out – MurrayBacon silently creeping axe murderer.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 12:46 am

  5. Clause 4, “S(e)”: I oppose this clause in its present form. It should
    emphasize that it applies to the extended family on both parents’ sides.
    Instead of ‘family group’ it should state ‘family groups’.

    This is an interesting section from Hans Laven’s submission.

    I assume Hans that you are opposing this clause on the basis that it shows bias by giving one family group (the mothers) a preference and consequently you are seeking to have the families of the mother and father included by changing the word to groups.

    The reason this would have been drafted in this manner is the legal definition of family. Family does not recognise mother and father, only parents who provide or care and pay for a child.

    In other words, your interpretation of family recognises biological connection the law does not.

    The use of the word family in this manner has been one of the most surreptitious and misunderstood political deceptions but it is not new – Hitler employed the same legal deception to promote his Aryan super race concept.

    Hilliary Clinton said, “It takes a village to raise a child.”

    She did not mean that a biological family functions better in a community. Village, within her definition of the socialist agenda meant family as I have described above but I bet you a pound to a pinch of snuff that if you surveyed the world only a very small percentage would have understood this.

    It is also not a new concept – Napoleon 111 did not like the idea and outlawed it by decree.

    Even protesters such as Bob McCoskrie from Family First cannot get his head around this, which you can see in his media articles.

    But this is the law and the law is based in definition and concept and while you oppose this Hans it will not be changed because your proposed change would be inconsistent with the law.

    This is the nature of the civil society we are subjected to – the secular society rather than the sacred society that women desperately fought for, many without knowing what they were actually getting.

    I highlight this point because it is a flash point or a point of conflict between public perception and what the law says.

    Jim Bailey’s campaign was based on the natural biological family. Family First’s campaign is based on marriage but the political campaign is based on maintaining the law so that it can be enforced by Judges.

    There is a much greater change required than that of putting an ‘s’ on the word groups.

    Comment by Down Under — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 7:56 am

  6. Thanks Down Under for your observation.

    Family does not recognise mother and father, only parents who provide or care and pay for a child.

    As far as I can see, “and pay” is quietly ignored by familycaught$ judges.

    Research into genetics of parental relationship behaviours strongly underlines the impact of biology. Inheritance does not control future behaviour, but it is usually about 50% contribution, varying for different behaviours under study. Attempts to ignore our biological reality are doomed to partial success at best and countrywide social disaster at worst – for example present familycaught$ performance.

    I have come across my own submission on the Parliament website:

    or the submission as submitted is available here.

    I like to think that I have covered the same breadth of topics as Grace Haden, but in more detail about making them workable in a real organisation. In the end this is necessary, for reforms to actually deliver advantage to consumers, socially and financially. MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 9:46 am

  7. If you look at this from an arrogant lofty point of view, judges enforce obligations to care for and fund a child. Parent is a non-descript entity, conscripted to function according to a code of law. The law doesn’t deal in emotion, yet we let it rule the family.

    Comment by Down Under — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 12:28 pm

  8. Down Under, when the “law” is running on a human animal, then all decisions are finalised in the emotional parts of the brain. Training may reduce the impact of emotions in some situations, but the impact is never zero. When decisions will later be reviewed by many commentators, there is some pressure to put in the effort to put sympathies aside. Sympathy is easily manipulated if the judge isn’t given the whole story. Manipulators are allowed to thrive when protected by secrecy and no working accountability (eg prosecution of perjury).

    Watching familycaught$ in action, I am not sure what they are trying to do? The only consistent correlation that I can see, is mercilessly maximising their financial return$. They are often casual about gathering information, despite the inquisitorial powers given to them by Parliament, many many years ago.

    Accurate input data just doesn’t seem to concern them or matter. This is why presently, I believe that a coin flip would deliver the best outcomes for children. Coins don’t wear out very fast, during flipping service.

    If “law” was to run on a computer, then we could set the degree to which emotion and sympathy would be allowed to influence the final decision. I guess this is about 5 or 10 years away, but possibly much closer. The cost of legal work will be much lower, but generally of higher quality.

    Which would you prefer to trust?

    coin flip
    open court judge
    secret caught judge

    Cheers, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 8th April 2013 @ 2:03 pm

  9. I have studied this and a coin flip would actually produce better results for everyone. Everyone except obstructive mothers and the divorce industry, that is.

    Comment by Vman — Tue 9th April 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  10. Having been a mother who fought 7 long years to keep my children and my self safe I too could be classed as a steroid women. But I did what I had to do to keep me and my babies safe. Now sadly I support without question the father’s of my grandchildren for the same reason. The law cyps and my family see me as a traitor. Good luck to them as my grandchildren come first as did my children. More grandparents need to speak up there is no shame in having a voice, our grandchildren and men deserve thi god given right.

    Comment by louise — Tue 6th May 2014 @ 8:54 pm

  11. In contested Care of Children custody cases: Anything other than 50/50 Shared Care of Children unless a REAL (JURY) conviction for abusing your own biological children is CHILD ABUSE!!!

    Comment by Phil Watts — Wed 7th May 2014 @ 12:23 am

  12. Hear hear Phil Watts #11

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Wed 7th May 2014 @ 12:28 am

  13. The definition of child abuse needs to be reviewed. A child deserves to be able to have contact with all members of their family. Women have been empowered to use their children as assets. This is CHILD ABUSE! Until the court’s and Lawyers acknowledge this the battle that men undergo mentally and physically will never end. Reform is required and urgently if our future generations are to be whole well developed individuals. Sadly the hidden agendas of others effect all outcomes. Children need to be paramount at all times as they are our future citizens, lawyers, doctors, leaders of our nation. We are there first teachers. What are we teaching them? The 10 commandments need to be part of every day life, part of decision making, legislation if our battlefield is to be closed down. 100% shared care for mothers and father’s is a realistic outcome, when weapons are laid down. Qualitative outcome for all. 🙂

    Comment by louise — Wed 7th May 2014 @ 8:33 am

  14. Beautifully said, Louise. Care of Children Act 2004 does make that clear, but not to judges? Thanks, MurrayBacon.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 7th May 2014 @ 9:25 am

  15. I agree with the mother who fought to keep her babies safe I am doing the same fir my granddaughter, urgent interim order signed by a judge without any background and the unbilogical father was having contact 3 to 4 times a week. Because my daughter after the case was clused due to her having to sign a parenting order under emotional duress as my granddaughter was kidnapped fir 14 days, judge held onto the warrent if arrest which the police was waiting fir. Then a month later case gets reopened again and because my daughter reap resented herself lawyers both child and other get really nasty and going fir full custody thus legal system is just that only a dollar sign on the child’s head

    Comment by Acameron — Sat 31st October 2015 @ 7:29 pm

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