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Madness or is it just me

Filed under: Domestic Violence,General — allan harvey @ 5:11 pm Sun 21st July 2013

Am I mad?

Umm just wanting to check my sanity. Associate Professor of Law at Auckland University Ms Julia Tolmie surely must be sane. Such an important position, such responsibility to be appointed to chair the Family Violence Deaths Review Committee.

Legal gap for battered spouses who kill

Moves to push for a law change allowing battered wives who kill their husbands in cold blood to plead self-defence are being considered by a government committee.

The Family Violence Deaths Review Committee says New Zealand is out of step with other countries in not offering at least a partial defence for women who kill their husbands after years of abuse.

How come then this reads as just madness to me???

I thought doing something like leaving a relationship, taking advice from a friend, phoning lifeline or Women’s Refuge might be sane actions but no Ms Tolmie seems to be advocating a more long term solution. It seems to be murder the B****** and claim he battered you and get a get our of jail card and probably an ACC payment as well.

I’m very concerned for my own sanity as this sounds like nuts to me.

I did assume that sometimes people may be so disturbed they can be found not guilty due to insanity but the end result is still very similar in that they get locked up in a forensic unit and may do an even longer sentence there than if they were convicted and sentended to time in the other pokey.

I see I must be going mad as the universe has now sent a huge earthquake to tell me to get off and stop my mad raving.


  1. Mate, you are completely sane, but NZ domestic violence industry/Family Court is not.

    NZ has a very strong motive to promote fake family violence from male side and ignoring the one from females (in a form of false allegations) to keep family court judges, lawyers, specialists and various trusts busy.

    This move will give blank card to kill your partner and get his assets under claim of violence.

    I would say that being male in new zealand becoming really dangerous with no protection.

    Comment by CSA — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 5:31 pm

  2. I wonder if anyone’s seen Tolmie’s own husband recently?

    They don’t seem to be calling it “Battered Woman’s Syndrome” any more, as they did when psychologist Gail Ratcliffe tried to run this defence for Gay Oakes.

    Oakes did do the sane thing and contact Woman’s Refuge; an advocate assisted her to choose a poison to put in Doug Gardiner’s coffee then came to her home and helped her bury the body!

    Oakes was released from life imprisonment after only eight years when the Parole Board accepted battered women’s syndrome could be used as a defence.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 6:54 pm

  3. Bigoted pussy pass BS viewpoint from an all too typical ivory tower feminist academic.

    Comment by Skeptic — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 7:04 pm

  4. Just more of the same male bashing propaganda that allowed my wife to leave me out of the blue. In front of the kids, mentally torture me even more by abusing me and telling me how worthless i am for the next 52 (sleepless, for me) hours, then telling me to kill myself and making no effort to stop me when i went to do as i was told as i always have.
    then she kidnapped our kids for the next 3 days after saying she was taking them out f lunch.
    she was hoping to come home to a dead body but i stopped myself when i realised it was her plan all along & i couldn’t leave my kids w her. then while i took care of the kids as i had done f t previous 14yrs she harassed m using her pig friends and they helped her get a Protection Order even though i have never hit or shouted at her in over 20 years and i am kept away f my kids who love me as i sent emails and left my sons rm messy! The Family Court (Female Court)is a sick hypocritical joke that commits far worse domestic violence against males and children than it ‘punishes’ us for.

    she even admitted in court to judge pr grace that she lied to the cops and to the court. Yet he still gave her a licence to kill Protection Order. This proves their corruption as all cops and judges detest being lied to and yet they do not care in this case. Her sister has worked for ass police type people for many years and admitted to seeking their help. go figure.

    The female court ignores any violence towards men or children by women unless the male has contacts in the legal system or police.just to skew the stats.

    We who have been unjustly traumatised and punished are destined to live with the curse of sanity!

    Comment by expendable — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 7:19 pm

  5. One good reason why we need a campaign to SVAM

    Comment by Harry — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 8:02 pm

  6. The government’s “Are you ok” programme claims “No matter what your age or sex, it’s never OK if your partner uses violence to hurt or control you.”

    Apparently not so much when the victim is a male and the perpetrator his female partner.

    I will be writing to the Ministry of Social Development to suggest that they oppose this legislative change given their promoted position that violence is never ok.

    Interestingly the women’s refuge has a similar slogan. I wonder if they will also oppose the legislation.

    Comment by Wayne Burrows — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 8:45 pm

  7. So if you are composed enough to go away following repeated incidents of DV, compose yourself, devise a plan to MURDER your husband, that is not cold calculated murder?
    But you are not composed enough to go away, compose yourself, devise a plan to LEAVE him?
    With ALL the anti-violence programmes, women’s refuges / Safe Houses, Instant Protection Orders, permanent PO’s, education and so on, you are still SO TRAPPED in your relationship that you CANNOT LEAVE, except to MURDER your husband on the way-out??????
    That’s the ultimate BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by OMG you're &(*^(&%^(^&* — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 9:02 pm

  8. Gentlemen and others concerned about justifications for murder,

    I suggest we get our pens writing to people who may be influential in this matter.

    The Family Violence death Review Committee that Tolmie chairs is a under Health Quality & Safety Commision.

    The chair of that oragisation is Professor Alan Merry, Head of the School of Medicine at the University of Auckland. He is a practising cardiac anaesthetist and chronic pain specialist, and works with both public and private patients, in serious medical emergencies and in managing chronic illness.

    The Commission’s Chief Executive is Dr Janice Wilson who was formerly Deputy Director-General of the Population Health Directorate at the Ministry of Health.
    She joined the Ministry in March 1993 as Director of Mental Health, and was also appointed to the position of Chief Psychiatric Advisor in July 1993, later called Chief Advisor, Mental Health. She was Deputy Director-General, Mental Health for seven years before taking up an expanded role that included a range of other Population Health services.

    All this ‘work’ comes under the Minister of Health Mr Tony Ryall. I would also suggest that Ms Judith Collins Minister of Justice be lobbied as well.

    Comment by allan harvey — Sun 21st July 2013 @ 9:33 pm

  9. A strong international campaign to SVAM would really help to produce a lot of pressure against this kind of problem.

    Comment by Harry — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 12:12 am

  10. Of course any such change would apply to men, murdering their wives.

    Comment by John Brett — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 9:00 am

  11. “Of course any such change would apply to men, murdering their wives”………………… until dealt with in courts by the feminist and/or white knight judges.

    Comment by Skeptic — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 11:03 am

  12. So, let me get this right …. A while ago the Govt ditched the defence of “provocation” but now they’re looking at making a Law that says women can claim provocation ?

    Comment by golfa — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 1:00 pm

  13. They can not bring in such a provision for women only. Any such provision can equally be applied to men murdering their wives /partners.

    Comment by John Brett — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 1:32 pm

  14. #13 Why not ? There’s already a Law that applies to men only. Male Assaults Female. It carries DOUBLE the penalty for just plain old Assault (which is what’s used when a female assaults a male.) So if there’s one Law that already works in women’s favour, why not make another one ?

    Comment by golfa — Mon 22nd July 2013 @ 9:56 pm

  15. The journalist may have jumped the gun.

    I queried the source of the article and got this reply from the Health Quality & Safety Commission.

    “The journalist that wrote the article to which you refer cited an early draft copy of the FVDRC’s Third Annual Report. This early draft included some discussion about legal defences for battered defendants, but the FVDRC pulled the discussion from the final version of the report because it had not been thoroughly discussed within the committee, with all of the FVDRC advisors, or with all relevant governmental and nongovernmental agencies.

    The FVDRC is about to embark on a series of meetings with key stakeholders to discuss whether the time has come to revisit partial defences in New Zealand. At this point in time, the meetings are still being organised.”

    There may be an opportunity to make submissions to this process.

    “I am cc’ing the Chair of the FVDRC, Associate Professor Julia Tolmie, on my response to you so she is aware of your interest in the discussion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions or comments.”

    Comment by Wayne Burrows — Tue 23rd July 2013 @ 11:25 pm

  16. I wonder if it is only coincidence or is the Refuge having a collection drive at present and they have to justify their existence?

    Comment by Gwahir — Wed 24th July 2013 @ 10:27 pm

  17. #15 Wayne. I think we’d love to know who started the discussion with regard to “legal defences for battered defendants”. Probably the same type of person who started the “discussion” about women only Labour candidates !

    Comment by golfa — Thu 25th July 2013 @ 11:03 am

  18. They certainly can bring in a law that gives a right to murder only to women. That is exactly what the Family Violence Deaths Review Committee is talking about.

    Although the NZ Bill of Rights Act requires our rights to be protected as described in the Human Rights Act and this includes includes sex as the very first ground of prohibited discrimination:

    1) For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds
    of discrimination are-
    (a) sex, which includes pregnancy and childbirth

    the Bill of Rights Act also allows discrimination if this is to assist or advance persons or groups disadvantaged because of discrimination, i.e.

    19 Freedom from discrimination
    (1) Everyone has the right to freedom from discrimination on the grounds of discrimination in the Human Rights Act 1993.
    (2) Measures taken in good faith for the purpose of assisting or advancing persons or groups of persons disadvantaged because of discrimination that is unlawful by virtue of Part 2 of the Human Rights Act 1993 do not constitute discrimination.

    I believe this out clause has been the basis on which government departments believe they can legally discriminate in favour of women and against men, as in the White Ripoff Campaign. Nobody has so far been rich enough to challenge this in Court, but I suspect those government departments are skating on thin legal ice. Nevertheless, the same out clause could be used by government to make it ok for women to kill men.

    Regardless, they jonkey government has frequently thumbed its nose at the Bill of Rights by passing various laws it knew contravened the Bill of Rights.

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Thu 25th July 2013 @ 11:04 am

  19. For your Information Golfa Allan Harvey started this thread.

    I commence the Thread about Labours attempt to exclude male candidates!

    Allan is quietly achieving much for men Through various legal channels, where I have been a victim of both violence and CYF! I am attempting to retire disgracefully!

    Comment by Alastair — Thu 25th July 2013 @ 2:43 pm

  20. What they are doing is trying to introduce laws similar to Australia. These laws have been used in several states in Australia as completely free licenses to murder husbands. These men are convienently not there to defend the allocation that they abused their wives.
    If any abuse had really occured there is an entire industry to support such a woman. But if she would prefer to murder him then that is perfectly acceptable. No proof other then her word is required.
    The family of the murdered man not only have no justice but the good name of their loved one is dumped in the mud. The murdering wive gets all the assests and all manner of free assitance. It is actually better than the perfect crime.
    It is well and truly open season on husbands in Australia.

    Gosh what a crushing patriacal system western women live in. Poor souls.

    Comment by Vman — Thu 25th July 2013 @ 3:36 pm

  21. Woman Caught Hiring ‘Hit Man’ To Kill Husband FULL VIDEO LINK

    Seems limiting male defence of false rapes is not enough for the Government. They now want to make it OK for female partners to murder if they say they are from a battered relationship.

    I suppose if the woman battered defence law comes into force, after a while it would become the norm, in fact an acceptable way if not the preferred way to leave your male partner. Less expensive than a divorce and cleaner way of getting his life savings and property in the process.

    My only questions are”¦”¦ Who is this group of people who dream up these ideas? Is there any way to find out the members of the group or person who put this forward? Are they paid staff of the Government? What is the background of these people making these suggestions to the law makers?

    Wonder why they don’t have the law for all genders if we need such a law!

    Comment by Lukenz — Fri 26th July 2013 @ 4:31 pm

  22. Julia Tolmie in action

    Comment by WayneBurrows — Mon 29th July 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  23. #22 And to think she lectures Law students !

    Comment by golfa — Mon 29th July 2013 @ 9:56 pm

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