MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Child Support – Has anyone taken the IRD to court over assesment?

Filed under: General — BrokenHeartedDad @ 7:21 am Fri 14th March 2014

I have just had my “assessment” for the next year arrive in the mail yesterday. What I am bewildered about is that the IRD gives me a “living allowance” of $288.00 a week? The average rent for a 3 bedroom house in Auckland is $550.00 a week on it’s own let alone food, power, water, transport. petrol etc. How the hell do they expect anyone to live on an allowance of $288.00? This is so out of date it’s ridiculous. The more ridiculous thing is that they give me a living allowance of $288.00 yet they want me to pay over $400 a week in “child support” for my 2 year old Son?!?!? How can this possibly be justified? Child support should be just that.. support for the child. How can a 2 year old possibly cost over $400 a week? This is not child support, this is criminal support going to my nasty ex-wife. Has anyone actually taken the IRD on the definition of child support? Surely the support of a 2 year old can’t be almost double what they give me as a living allowance? Child support should be a set amount depending on the age of the child, not worked out based on my income. Children cost the same amount to raise no matter how much money you earn. I am seriously thinking of taking the IRD to court over this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers! : )


  1. You could try an administrative review first – non legalese, no cost, no risk. This does sound ridiculous. I’ve won seven admin reviews in a row and would be happy to help.

    Comment by MumAndDadofSix — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 7:31 am

  2. Don’t pay it. Take them to court. Good luck.

    Comment by Fortitude — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 8:15 am

  3. Please understand the system is designed = deliberately to be difficult so you can not challenge it – this is how govts make money to spend they are protecting and ring fencing this income stream – literally like their lives depend on it…….which they do, if they cant create DEBT out of nothing – then they cant borrow more money to waste – The Child Support penalty industry is just that – demand excessive amounts from good parents knowing you have NO WAY in hell of challenging them – the only ones who currently benefit are those borrowing money against that inflated DEBT – NZ has $2 Billion Child Support PENALTY DEBT – excluding what is actually owed by good parents – so the more debt created the more they can borrow against it – they dont want you to know this of course – because its a sham, its corrupted and totally unfair and unjust…….

    I have spoken with lawyers – tax experts and as they say – forget taking them on – its you against a big bullying state with all the resources available to squash you – even tax experts say the law is DELIBERATELY COMPLEX and DIFFICULT – so NO ONE has the ability to challenge it……understand this……DELIBERATELY DIFFICULT……..

    As for ADMIN reviews – my direct experience is they are DELIBERATELY Discriminatory against the person who has income, assets or anything else they can leverage excessive demands against to increase the penalty industry when you cant pay – …….they breach human rights, bill of rights,, treaty rights, rights to own personal property, rights to travel, rights to parent your own kids – they care not – and they are permitted to do this, because the Human Rights commission in NZ is NOT permitted to investigate complaints – been there done that…….

    The ombudsmans office – there to oversea FAIRNESS for all – is also deliberately stalling and refusing to investigate a complaint of Breaches of Due process at REVIEW – total refusal – in fact they have MORE excuses as to why they cant investigate or wont – protecting the very govt departments behaving in this way – and we apparently do not have corruption in NZ – those who refuse to take complaints are Complicit in the offence – they are parties to Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice – a refusal to take a complaint means there is NOTHING officially recorded as to the concern – so it can continue unabated – protections are in place so they can do what ever they like to you – the good parents just wanting to have time with your kids and look after them the best you can……its a scam and it needs to be held to account – but when the very departments we go to for help are so CORRUPTED – SO CONFLICTED in protecting an abusive system – then sadly we the people have no where to make legitimate complaints and get any real justice – that is the world we all seem to now be living in………..

    if you won a review = you need a medal – I have been refused attendance on three occassions now…..along with a host of other breaches of due process……..which as I say is sanctioned and permitted – because no one will investigate this …………

    Comment by hornet — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 8:47 am

  4. If you don’t pay, you’ll end up in arrears. For me initially, with no income (as WINZ would activate after a while if you had been working before), they were still demanding the full amount. At least your weekly amount is less than your gross income. My weekly liability was like 4 times more than my gross weekly income. And when I managed to get a meeting with them, they just told me that my average annual income hadn’t fallen by 15%, as if non-custodial dads are somehow magically capable of saving money in the NZ economy. And as for the child support definition that you say, by right, it should be called mummy support.

    My advice, pay whatever you can, get a budget done by some accountant, and then opt for an administrative review. Its no use thinking about taking this branch of IRD to court. You’ll effectively be taking them to the close family a.k.a females court, and they work more on moral responsibilities than laws. Just try to reason with IRD and hope it goes okay.

    Its too late to call your ex-wife nasty now. We men often get bound by their sweet talk and crocodile tears all the time and by the time we realize what happened, its too late.

    And WHATEVER happens, do not commit ANY violence against your ex-wife in way, verbal or physical….. Feminists want men to live under their feet, and they know that they have got the full support of the state if men retaliate. And they completely hate MWGTOW, because they can’t do anything to them. After all a man IS needed by them to give seed to their investment.

    I know of some people who may be of some help to you in providing useful information. Inbox me, and I may be able to be of some help to you.


    Another survivor who has fallen through the gaps of the system.

    Comment by Ashish A Naicker — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:04 am

  5. wondering if you have access to your son?
    this is such a joke, i’ve written to Andrew Little Labour Member..

    the government needs to stand up an look at this as a whole…lack of access high child support etc…if said parent is on the DPB they don’t get what other parent pays…so why the high payments…!!!

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:07 am

  6. No the stopping you from seeing your own child is part of the plan – its deliberate – why do you think Court orders to see you own child are NOT ENFORCED – why CYFS will not help you, the police will NOT help you do the RIGHT thing…… wonder so many good parents in this country have to take the law into their own hands – the system refuses to help you see your own kid – and this is deliberate – we have a massive conflict of interest going on here – acceptable practice by lawyers and our judiciary if you had not noticed in the papers recently……

    lawyers ENFLAME conflict, stopping parents seeing their own kids is the best way to ENFLAME conflict – and who benefits = LAWYERS – the COURTS in more business……..

    Allow parental alienation to flourish, allow attacks on your credibility, allow provocations and abuse to run riot -= why ???? Because it increases CONFLICT….

    Wake up NZ parents – these dog lawyers are DELIBERATELY not helping you – the courts are NOT helping you – because they are in direct conflict of interest – to help would mean a DECLINE in BUSINESS ……..

    They offer a SERVICE to HELP parents = but as many will testify here – they NEVER DELIVER – the INCREASE and ENFLAME CONFLICT – for PROFIT……

    Until that stops – more and more good parents wil be deliberately deprived of time with their own kids – and there will be more good parents and children as sacrificial victims for profit…….they are running riot with this, having a blast at your expense…….

    Comment by hornet — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:16 am

  7. my letter to Andrew Little today..
    Morning Andrew,
    was talking to the lovely Jancinta ..

    this is about child support an access..
    so many people out there have a great deal of trouble to see their children/grandchildren ,

    i have made contact before the last election not 1 response about this subject…National plus Labour Maori Parties…

    Please read MENZ Issues it’s a forum not sure of email address…totally heart broken at times..

    anyways i would love to see the family courts to stop an think more about the whole situations …many suffer the same the their party stop or cause problems for the other party to access to the children …in this case i think the child support should be stopped til such time that party gets their act together…it’s just not the child that misses out but also the families as a whole..i’m a grandmother an have been through the family court system way to much just to see my granddaughter…1 Mother doesn’t responded to letters 2 her lawyer doesn’t responded, 3rd lawyer for child doesn’t follow things up as she says she would..but then again i’m not sure my lawyer is innocent either…court time legal aid stress on child if this system was re looked at an readjusted . it would save alot of mucking around…

    my granddaughters mother is in a new relationship (nice guy with another child to another woman) they have a child together, he gets a good wage Linesmen she works for ANZ , i thought there was a new law about child support that looks at the income of that house whole, not saying the other parent (my son) doesn’t need to pay…but alll about access …some mainly men have to pay a huge amount an still don’t get access, Andrew seriously if you’ve never had or seen this for yourself 1 wouldn’t understand how it feels..Heart breaking…

    Please can you bring this into some action so the country will see, not just turn a blind eye as many do…

    much regards

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:33 am

  8. When we were 1st married now ex was paying 75 i think a week back in 86, we went an saw IRD took all our bills etc was dropped to 25 a week…she was on thre DPB plus had other childen by then …
    after my marriage was broken i never stopped him from seeing our children (4), his then new relationship (now married) produced 7 more, he paid 40 a month for 17 years til i contacted IRD an him to say our youngest is now working more than 30 hours so child support was stopped..

    My heart goes out to you guys…this system sucks big time…the money goes to the mother, for makeup an going out not for all but most…oh an travelling overseas with partner…not bitter just pissed off…

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:45 am

  9. @ donna nicely put keep up the great writing.:)
    @hornet nice 🙂
    @mum and dad of six good stuff 🙂

    @ broken hearted dad, sorry to hear that was me 2 and a half years ago and still going by the way,

    Yes I got that same letter and the same angry type of ex that doesn’t take anything of what you have to pay at all into consideration, in fact they don’t give a toss about you, you are nothing more than a pay check now, and if you end up on the street or jail they still collect.

    Deal with it move on and be smart,

    Don,t take them to court they have unlimited funds (of your taxpayer dollars) to fight you with a totally corrupt system

    There is a way it will take a little time but you have to fight and be prepared to lose everything to get anywhere with them.

    A mate did it successfully it took him 3 goes and a few months with very little money but it can be done,

    To fight a unjust system you must fight and fight hard the IRD is the worst department of them all.

    Comment by Dominic Dilligaf — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:47 am

  10. P.S they just take it automatically from your employer if you don,t pay by the way, before you even see it, they send a demand to your employer and then they are also in the poo if they don’t comply, by taking it from your paycheck.

    Comment by Dominic Dilligaf — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:50 am

  11. can’t we get a law passed if we get enough people to sign child support an access etc???????

    at least we can see it’s getting looked at an something done…

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:57 am

  12. Kia ora as most of the respondence have suggested, as I have been through this and still am. Ask for a review its a bit of work on your part, find a grounds that you feel is applicable to your current circumstance. Obviously not sure of your circumstances, any thing that you pay outside of your child support amount that is related to your child record it and get a receipt and I mean EVERYTHING it sounds trivial however its worth it and you can use that information at the review. I suggest you try and find someone within Child Support dept and plead your case, I would always demand to speak with the supervisor eventually I found a person who actually knew what they were talking about. I would when I had an enquiry etc ask for this person, diarise every conversation you have with them. At review take a support person, and only answer the question that is asked dont go off track. I received advice from a former tax investigator who had advised me to keep your answers if possible to one syllable words but be polite, Unfortunately your support person is not allowed to speak on your behalf nor record the conversation either by diarising or electrinically record the conversation. When you do a budget of your living expenses dont short change yourself you need to live to, i;e I put things such as petrol 2 beers a week etc. I would suggest you go to budget advice I found a lovely lady who helped me alot when dealing with Child support who even had ameeting with my local MP on my behalf as well as the regional IRD manager. However I was relentless I was on the phone with them everyday for over year, explaining my case. What ever you do pay something dont let the amount get out of control. You may even what to find out if your ex is working or receiving some sort of benefit as this need to be taken into account as to how much you are to pay. You need to get smart rather than spiteful vengeful, these emotions wont help you. I eventually went onto the dole which goes against my principals to reduce the amount I was paying, the current system is wrong however it is what it is, Be smart be familiar with the system and try and make it work for you. its easier said then done I know. Wish you well

    Comment by Bruce Chase — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 10:53 am

  13. Bruce i like everything you said…

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 11:22 am

  14. Kia ora all, over period of time and meany dealing with IRD. I have learnt that the non custodian parent be it mum or dad, you need to be cvery smart from the off. I have managed to in most part pay my child support on time without IRD interference. I dont have the payments come out of account automaticlly, i physically do it. Which seems atiquated however at least Im in control and if I know im going to be short etc I always rung IRD to let them know, I did this so that there was a trail. My experience, good fathers will fore go their share of the property in order that the child/ren have a secure place to live. i did that against my lawyer and friends advice make sure you inform IRD with a written document stating you choose to fore go you share of the property to ensure that your child or children have a scure place to live, that will go a long way to off set child support payments, yo must do this straight away. I didnt hence I still pay child support 6 years later. If possible try to agree on ammicable amount that the non custodian parent pay each month and set it up so that payments go to custodian parent via IRD, why do this? There is a paper trail and it then makes it very difficult for the custodian parent to cause a stir by wanting more at the drop of a hat. In the early days of a separations go to the family court and request mediation it cost nothing and the courts like this as it keeps thing out of court. Also ask for councilling for your child/children, if it goes to court at least you can say you tried to provide help for your children. Diarise everything you do, you never know you may need it latter. Inform the bank asap and set up a new account if youhavnt got one already and move your $$ in to that or better still if its getting real messy open a TAB account IRD cant go into it and take $$$ its a pain to manage that account but again it may be worth it in the long run. Remembring that the IRD can go into your account and take the money from your account, I know it happend to me a week leading up to Christmas. During this period time try to keep contact with your child children, NEVER Openly abuse your ex infront of anyone especially your children this is important. Again any $$$ spent on them keep the receipts you will need this later. When it comes to visitation rights for the Non custodian parent I think its less than 5% success rate in the courts of a non custodian parent winning a battle around up holding visitation rights that were agree in court. The odds particulary for fathers unfortuantely are stacked against you unless you have wads of cash dont bother, its a hard one but believe me been there to.
    As in my previsou email you MUST work hard to keep your dignaty if not for for your children. Unfortuantly in my case despite all my fighting the system etc my EX has succeeded in poising my son. He hates me and he dosent know why. Ihave not seen in him as a father should for 6 years it breaks my heart every day. However I know I did everything I could to be a father to my son. I suggest when going through the separation process inform the school they may try to deny giving you any information, this is illegal however once again this is what happen to me. Be smart folks and remember despite all the wrongs of the system and the difficulites you will have remember your children. Unfortunately parential alienation is not recognised in this country hence why its difficult to deal with within the realms of the current law, if you can find some middle ground that is ammicable it may mitigate the likelyhood of you and your child being a victim of PA Parential Alienation, as previously mention I miss my son am broken hearted. Dont let this happen to you . Kia kaha

    Comment by Bruce Chase — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 12:46 pm

  15. @ Bruce i knew of a father that had a alcohol problem, the mother tried to stop all visits, he got a good lawyer (Pitball) he ended up with every 2nd weekend stay overs no booze or drug within that time…easy for him…

    Lawyer for Child in your case should be asking for counselling under S133 i think it’s called.. an getting to the bottom of sons problem…it goes on way to often..something needs doing!!!

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 4:07 pm

  16. you have my sympathy. The battle has been fought and lost in all other aspects except taking them to court. I have lived on both sides of this fence. We even tryed having a deduction due to affordability. We listed and provided proof of everything. They listed my daughters sever asthma as entertainment during this process to reduce this so we could afford to pay the $1000 per month that they expected. there assessment was based on what a family would get on the dole not taking into consideration the excess benefits such as rent relief that a family on the dole would receive and the occasional food grant and power bill that families on the dole could receive. we were both working full time jobs and paying full rent with no relief or assistance and paying taxes. then they would take the balance of the money before tax and take out 18% for cs… then work out the tax. They assess you on gross income not in your hand so it makes it worst as these is done on funds you never see. It is a very not fair system … reality it is the failed child support system from USA many years ago. and it has failed here but they dont actually care as it brings in heaps for the government. … GOOD LUCK… you have my support

    Comment by Angel-lee Love — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 5:27 pm

  17. Jeez this is so unfair…have messaged Michael Bott an Andrew Little…lets hope they can help…

    Comment by Donna Tua-Bird — Fri 14th March 2014 @ 9:32 pm

  18. I have skim read through the posts and get the gist of whats going on here. I was Liable parent for many years – paid in excess of 100k all for my two sons – Its was heart breaking at time – demoralizing , depressing a whole lot of stuff. I have a dept to pay still despite the fact that my youngest son is now 21 and my oldest would have been 25 if he were still alive.

    The debt came about as I was living in Brisbane – I worked over there for 18 months from 2004. the debt was because I could not pay the full assessment of $1350.00 per month for 3 of the 18 months I was there. The reason being was because I was paying the money to have access with my sons for those months. The ird laughed at me when I applied for a review.

    in 2006 I opted out of everything due to the absolute futility of it all. (details of which are outside of scope of this post – they were serious.) went on the sickness due to ongoing depression etc related to many of the issues father speak of on here.

    I am now a student and continue to pay 21.00 per week and its hardly going down at all.

    Comment by carlos — Mon 31st March 2014 @ 6:59 pm

  19. And if you don’t have you child tax and your student loan paid off by the time you are 65 they will deduct it from your pension.

    Comment by Downunder — Mon 31st March 2014 @ 7:39 pm

  20. glad i’m not the only one with this drama. System is so dated and broken, my assessment this year was 414.00 per week. LOL come on guys who the hell can afford that!? I have a new mortgage and my living costs are the same as when I was renting.


    Comment by Daniel Wellstood — Wed 11th June 2014 @ 12:37 pm

  21. Help, I live in the UK and have received a telephone message from IRD New Zealand asking me to call them regarding child support. I left NZ 18 years ago where my x hubby had custody of our two boys then 10 and 6. I was not aware that I owed any child support payments and never received any letters from IRD to this effect. Now they are saying I owe around 40 000 NZ dollars including interest covering all these years. My view is that they can’t pursue a debt if the recipient was not aware of it in the first place and my x and I shared financial responsibility of the boys plus I brought over my youngest son at the age of 14 where he lived,with me till age of 27. what can I do to challenge them?

    Comment by L DWhitney — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 2:25 am

  22. One would assume that at some stage x-hubby was receiving the domestic purposes benefit and you were named as the mother?

    Then assessed at an arbritrary rate since you were out of the country, and have incurred substantial penalties over the years.

    IRD will do what they want whether it is legal or not and leave it up to you to prove otherwise.

    They also monitor this site so be careful what you say in your comments.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 8:31 am

  23. L DWhitney (#21): A lack of notification or invoices concerning so-called ‘child support’ has not stopped others from being charged for retrospectively assessed obligations. However, it will be worth arguing this matter and it may be possible to get a Court ruling in your favour concerning this. You might at least have penalties or interest removed from the total.

    Another issue is the agreement you had with your ex. If you have any correspondence or other evidence (such as friends who heard you make a verbal agreement) showing you had both agreed to a private arrangement for supporting the children, then get that evidence together and be ready to produce it. Also, get records together of all money you sent or expenditure you incurred in assisting with the children’s upbringing. Again, other cases have often allowed IRD to ignore any such private arrangement. When the greater parent needs more money to maintain his/her lifestyle and decides to deny that the lesser parent previously contributed or that there was any private arrangement, IRD will often collude with the greater parent. Even when the lesser parent provides receipts and other hard evidence of his/her contributions, IRD have been allowed to ignore those contributions by labeling them voluntary and additional to the so-called ‘child support’ obligation. However, by providing hard evidence in Court this makes it a bit more difficult for IRD to behave in such dastardly fashion.

    Your payments, or a proportion of them, for the children’s travel or your own travel in order to spend time with your children may be taken into account as contributions, especially if you have evidence that you and your ex agreed this expenditure was necessary to maintain your contact with the children.

    Aside from these approaches, you will be able to offset some of your assessed obligation by claiming for so-called ‘child support’ that your ex owes you for your son while he lived with you from age 14 to age 18, and possibly beyond if you can argue special circumstances requiring you to continue supporting him after age 18.

    You will probably need to apply for an Administrative Review. It’s a good idea not to provide IRD or the Admin Review officer with your details or the actual evidence you have. That will only give IRD an opportunity to find legal ways to invalidate or ignore your evidence. It’s better simply to inform IRD that you have the evidence, e.g. “I have receipts amounting to $xy for travel to maintain contact as agreed with my ex”. Don’t complete the forms they send you asking for your bank balances, assets and so forth. IRD can obtain UK tax records of your earnings and that’s all they are entitled to. If IRD do not come to a satisfactory arrangement with you through the Admin Review, then take it to Court. Court is the only useful place to bring out your detailed evidence that will contribute to the judge’s decision on the day.

    There is reason for optimism in your case. Being a female you are much more likely to be treated fairly, even leniently, by NZ IRD than if you were a male.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 2:40 pm

  24. To L D Whitney.
    Child Support has been around in NZ longer than your children. Did you fully expect to leave NZ and not have a CS responsibility? In this modern age of data matching and CS recovery (I am sure it is not that different from one western country to the next, although reciprocal arrangements are still a while-away), did you not expect a CD collector to come knocking? Why did you leave NZ? Surely not to minimise your obligations… and as a mother? Do mothers ever walk away from their children?
    No, there is more to this than you let on.
    History aside, You say you shared expenses. Really? 50/50?
    So after 18 years IRD tracked you down. You stayed put all that time? No? You Moved periodically? You kept IRD NZ informed of your address changes?

    Well welcome to the male experience. How many men have contributed directly, only to be clobbered by the IR machine, who take no cognisance of ‘shared care’, no cognisance of non-custodial parent expenses and cheques to the custodial parent, who are more concerned with ‘cost recovery’.
    Pardon me, but how often have we heard about men being charged with CS evasion (not a literal crime, I talk metaphorically), by IRD, and please cough up or we’ll knee cap you next time you fly anywhere, and think not twice about bankrupting you 0nn the process. Whose punitive penalty regime drives some men to absolute despair and even suicide.
    Get real. This is the world that feminists have created. Men abandon their children (apparently), and their wallets must pay! They set the rules. They set the CS regime. They chased these allegedly dead beat dads half way across the world. They ignored private arrangements, and unless you could prove your innocence, charged you backdated CS on top of every cheque you wrote in favour of your shafted misses and her children. They decided to chase dad’s the world over.
    And so their net catches the odd reversed situation? The one in 100 or maybe 1000 woman who is similarly charged with financial abandonment under the catch-all net they cast against escapist non-paying fathers?
    Well belly-hoo. Cry your crocodile tears.
    Mortgage your life and pay up. Just like the femi-nazi expect hunted-down men to do.

    Comment by OMG You're (&*)^*( — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 8:22 pm

  25. Fair enough OMG, but I believe our so-called ‘child support’ system is immoral and child abusive. That applies regardless of the gender of its victims.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  26. Thanks for feedback now have a view on how to move forward

    Comment by Dori — Sun 29th June 2014 @ 10:53 pm

  27. #22Downunder says:They also monitor this site so be careful what you say in your comments.
    You meen they’re listening? NO! it can’t be true.
    Surely thier high moral position would have made them hand themselves in by now.

    But rejoyce, Minister Joyce has come to play. MR FIX IT.
    These things don’t count, its about the economy!. It’s (appoligist crap) looking good, i’m sleeping well but it could get worse, if something happens to the economy.

    Economy? How about people just learn to count first. Its pretty easy Mr Joyce. Something missing from what you were taught as a little boy? or just media expertise?
    Do you think I labled this entity an Organised Criminal Group just to score a point against others?

    Heres something for those that cling to the bridle of this flogged out horse. Trotted out as moral, yes a buitiful thourobred, fast, powerful, unstopable. Pity this just involes running in a circle with no moral compass. Cant work out?, like an adict, how to go strait.

    Lets start counting. Not the cost, but this erronous thing, actual money.

    Lets firstly establish establish what we are measuring. Dead Beat Dads.
    The indefensible.
    Yes, those that abandon thier responsibilitys, purposfully getting women pregnant and leaving them to fend for themselves. Mostly little girls, and young women, defenceless, succuming to the trickery and desires of men. Clearly they forgot to take thier male pill this morning. So he must have got pregnant on purpose, without her consent.

    Lets say just for Mr Joyce we keep the maths simple and representative (lets not bitch about the $9999 vs $10000 thing). 2000 young men each and every year for the last 25 years hopped on a plane and waved goodbuy to NZ. Thats 50000 lost citizens.

    If each of those 50000 young men(with a lifetime of working and supporting thier families/taxes ahead of them) were to earn $50000 dollars a year. Sounds alot for an average, but these are the Deadbeat Dads that have got get up and go, and have gone, not to return. The rest are on the dole, to broken to work (sickness benifit), clogging up our prisons, or just to beaten down and bewildered to notice that they are part of an ideology. An act of Slavery.

    50000 times $50000 is $2,500,000,000. Sounds like alot. 2 point 5 billion dollars of direct, non trickled down GDP, sounds like alot. But have you worked out I’m leading you astray. Yes its worse, much worse.

    When a young man flees like a refugee, from this campain of Terror, of Crimes, Crimes Against Humanity, and acts of Genocide, they don’t flee because they are returning later to do the right thing, they flee forever. They will be arrested at the airport if they did. 40 years later the escaped slave retires.

    $2,500,000,000 times 40 is $100,000,000,000. It’s like Doctor Evil, “I wan’t 100 billion dollars, cackle, cackle”. But have you worked out i’m leading you astray. Yes its worse, much worse.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 30th June 2014 @ 12:43 pm

  28. Ileft NZ in Dec 2013 having paid child support for my children deducted from my wages. In 2013 the mother of children was found to be fraudulent and child support stopped. Then she applied for child support claiming she was supporting my 18 year old son who she said was working part time and living with her. I contacted IRD and the office of the ombudsman (who I have head nothing from)My son lives with his brother and works full time. He does not see his mother let alone get support from her.
    I wrote a complaint to IRD who replied saying that they had received third party information and were now collecting money for daughter of same mother that they had miscalculated previously. That daughter is now 21.
    What can be done about this?

    Comment by Al — Mon 13th July 2015 @ 9:22 pm

  29. Does anyone know a good lawyer to help fight this?

    Comment by Al — Mon 13th July 2015 @ 9:35 pm

  30. #29 – AL – NO lawyer will help you – because they are part of the system – they are controlled and entrapped to do what they are TOLD to DO……not what is RIGHT by the PEOPLE……….

    Read my comments from back in 2014 – where I highlighted my concerns about inaction and refusals to investigate complaints by a GOOD CITIZEN – A good honest law abiding Parent demanding ANSWERS and FAIRNESS – the reaction of this govt that I received was they tried desperately to get me to REACT – I was deliberately PROVOKED on many levels to do something so I could be arrested and my credibility destroyed – and then they tried hard to have a snivelling little git try and ENTRAP me – a person I now know to be a GOVT NARK – he tried twice to offer me a “HITMAN” to take out my EX partner – had I brought into the ENTRAPMENT – I would be sitting in a prison cell right now – this is how this CRIMINAL operation works to HELP good citizens = this is how this CRIMINAL Enterprise looks to assist you with your RIGHTS.

    Your Integrity, character and reputation will be attacked FIRST on every level so as to ensure your COMPLAINT NEVER sees the light of day – for an investigation of my complaint would expose this entire system as a complete FRAUD and a total CORRUPTION of POWER to force good parents into deliberate SLAVERY, while also taking your kids and removing their fatherly input and protection.

    I did everything right, followed court and justice directions to the letter, never reacted to provocation, was never arrested for domestic violence, paid maximums in child support for years and was subject to years of parental alienation and NOTHING positive ever came to me. Rather my home was raided using unjust and illegal warrants, supported by review decisions which were directly unjust, unfair and breached every right to Due process ……..the only way they can keep this all hidden now is to REFUSE to investigate and try hard to destroy me……..

    Once you realise you are NOT dealing with HONEST, JUST people in power – then the rules have to change……REFUSE to COMPLY – withdraw your CONSENT – NEVER CONSENT to something that is NOT JUST and RIGHT or FAIR.

    The NZ ombudsmans office now refuses to take my phone calls…….I call every day and they refuse to talk – now why would that be?????

    Always remember – “ROME” Collapsed because the rulers became unfair, unjust and corrupted.

    Comment by hornet — Tue 14th July 2015 @ 9:37 am

  31. One other interesting comparison with my case – I knew Peter Clegg – I talked with him a few times at Kristin school – just a good honest man – who was as we now know – attacked and destroyed – deliberately by a vindictive individual.

    My case mirrors his case in that there has been over many years attempts by a vindictive and narcissistic ex partner to destroy me – unfortunately as is all too common – the system we go to for help, has actively assisted her in that persecution and destruction of me as a human being and as a father and businessman.

    A system which permits Parental alienation and false allegations and lies to flourish – and which permits children to be deliberately harmed in the process.

    Comment by hornet — Tue 14th July 2015 @ 9:48 am

  32. Until we can attack the system with all the force we can muster through all means it will never change.

    PREJURY…in the Family Court is the biggest issue!

    After all if the Law of the land demands the TRUTH be up held in every other Court System with penalies that includes imprisonment.

    Why is it the Family Courts does NOTHING, NOTHING at all, its 2015 for God sake!

    Unfortunately the majority of those committing Perjury in the family courts are Woman.
    Mothers,Daughters Wives, Sisters, Aunties,and former partners “ALL FEMALE”


    “WHY are those employed within the FAMILY COURTS allowing PERJURY”
    Its so arrogantly continues with utter contempt for those that are victims.


    “FEMALES”over their CHILDREN and FATHERS while the impact is completely ignored.

    The only defence FATHERS really have is to WALK AWAY…saying fuck the lot of them.
    When I was ATTACKED with PREJURY in the FAMILY COURTS through the MOTHER while she was CATERED TOO for YEARS not months by those in the Family Court System .

    I had contemplated Suicide and murder. I wanted REVENGE..thats so bad ,BUT the TRUTH

    I had PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY seen my Children turn from lovable free kids towards their DAD,
    been “TURNED” too running away from me and hiding behind a fkn “NOBODY EMPLOYED” by the

    yet ONE Female suffers from Parental Alienation and the results are splashed ALL over the media.

    YOU will never be able to PROTECT your children from been ABUSED..and then because its been legally supported that ABUSE over time is then aimed at you by your CHILDREN.
    Its heart breaking

    Its the DAMAGE thats caused through FORCED SEPARATION and the years of TOXIC ABUSE by the MOTHERS and their FAMILIES cause theyll put the boot in too been COACHED.

    “that FATHERS will have to bravely face

    My daughter is now old enough to understand been a Mother. Why I left, why I gave up.
    Only it took her a longtime to unravel her MOTHERS CHILD ABUSE.
    She is just as angry with the system as she is with her Mother.

    If your a FATHER in this situation KEEP THE FAITH…because CHILDREN do REMEMBER YOU
    They remember been LOVED, they remember YOU GOING AWAY..they will FORGIVE
    in time your children will come around.

    While the CURSE of ALL this SUFFERING is placed at the feet of the MOTHER.
    where it belongs…

    as far as the Court system and it corruption

    A good song for this is……..”burn mother fuckers burn”….

    Comment by joseph — Tue 14th July 2015 @ 11:54 am

  33. Taking my suffering out of the equation..
    What happens when your daughter tells you that they remember visits to dads as terrible times,
    That the Mother forbid calling me dad, i became that person.
    That my daughters and Mother always seemed too argue prior to visitation.
    That my second youngest was smacked before they were dropped off.
    That the Mother said I dont love you anymore your Father can have you..dont come back

    I always thought it was My partner at the time and my fault.

    My eldest remembers her youngest sister screaming and crying because she didnt want too go,
    So I cancelled the visitation they were just too upset…a child in two minds torn between loyalty for her Mother and sister…Yet her big sister won out and she came.
    I can still remember the confused and hurt look on her face when her eldest Sister took her and hugged her baby sister. She stopped crying because my eldest was still coming with dad..

    As all Fathers would know everything gets recorded. I seriously came close to giving visitation away in the end it did cost me my relationship with a good woman that supported me in the end, but just couldnt handle it anymore.
    That was tough to handle at the time too.

    It was only when a mediator was appointed that dropped the kids off things changed. The kids were happy, tentative weary only after a couple of hours they settled.
    2 wonderful weekend visits then they went missing taken away and hidden No one informed me, and the very people that pay the DPB and paid for her to move despite a court order not too. Now denied me access to where my children where though the “Privacy act” Same deal only worse at the school they once attended
    dont mean shyet if your the Father. Go back to court.

    This was the most dangerous period for me, going to mediation after mediation where her Lawyer beat the shyet out of me in court.Suddenly I was been accused of many things all false. Yet 34 mediation conferences later ” where the Mother Lawyers” said sorry couldnt attend today however theres another issue with..
    All a load of B/S to delay access over months that became 3 and a half years.

    I never saw my kids again as children or teenagers . They are Mothers now 28,and 27

    My youngest still refuses to talk to me. While thats agony to accept after such a long time
    I became aware of (PAS) on MENZ its effect as well as the harm it had caused not only myself but also my youngest daughter…
    I live in hope that with my eldest daughter help and time that will change. Good thing is they are both corrosponding with my Family and my wife
    So everythings going fine.
    It was after talking to my eldest daughter after 22 years though a call out of the blue that I found MENZ and the information that is shared on here.
    Information that was very important for our Family in this current position…
    So Id like to say thank you to all for sharing and some sound information as well as Hornet too who helped me stay true to myself

    So too my beautiful daughters who I know read my posts…
    Its out, open done no hidden agenda..just honesty. brutal honesty YES Im furious with those concerned YES Im active, go off and will join and support other MENZ issues…

    Only the best gift of all is that we are now giving and sharing …..time
    So perhaps you are right as you stated there is another chance dad,
    “by been a good Grandfather”…

    I love you both dad xx

    Comment by joseph — Wed 15th July 2015 @ 2:15 am


    I to find myself in a predicament that seems commonplace.


    Mine was a mistake at a new years eve party, where after 12 days later the woman involved informed me she was expecting and inquired if i was going to marry her. On finding out a bit more it came to light she had got herself into debt to an amount that would take a substantial time to repay on an average salary. On realizing i was not falling for this she left for Australia to reside on a welfare benefit and child support.

    I subsequently found out that this is not an uncommon practice as child support in Australia is a lot higher than in New Zealand.

    I have always accepted my responsibilities and have declared and paid my child support based on my guaranteed contractual income namely $x on 40 hours per week. Having had to work a lot of overtime that was non incremental i could never declare the exact amount which caused a situation whereby i would always be owing an excess. CS Australia have admitted their system is not geared for varying weekly amounts over and above your declared income.


    At the end of 2014 i received notification from the IRD they had been instructed to collect NZ$9663.25 in excess child support on behalf of the Dept Human Services Australia after a 4 year backdated assessment. This after i had been assessed at the end of each year. On inquiry to CS Australia they stated the amount was AU$6437.44. When trying to determine where the difference in amounts was coming from the IRD would refer me to CS Australia and on inquiry to CS Australia i would referred back to the IRD. I requested everything in writing and final after 6 months was supplied this confirming the amount the IRD was collecting was not what they had been instructed to collect by CS Australia. I filed a IR119 with the IRD and have had no feedback. I requested a copy of my re assessment from CS Australia which they would not supply to me, and wrote to the Australian Ombudsman to no response. In my case the amount of NZ$9663.25 excess child support being sought over and above what i paid, is equal to 16 weeks salary on the minimum wage (that is 4 months or one third of a year) As the amount being sought is overtime worked, up to 28% of the amount is tax that i paid to the IRD. (CS Australia views tax as personal income and you pay child support on this.) The 16 weeks labour paying back this excess and tax will be viewed as personal income once again, and thus the systems in place are self generating. I cannot return to the workplace to pay off an unconfirmed amount, and thus have to endure the financial difficulties associated with the processes. I have researched this and these cases traditionally seem to be protracted.


    Someone in the international media is interested in this situation on the following grounds;

    Under the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 23 ever person has the right to work and make an income. The issue is no where in the New Zealand Bill of Rights are you afforded the same liberalities.


    I am seeking other persons who find themselves in a similar situation such as myself who are no longer working for them selves due to the current policies in place
    Who have fulfilled their obligations wrt child support
    Who have followed the procedures by the relevant departments to no avail or deliberate timely delay
    Who have had penalties applied before they where informed of an outstanding amount, or situations where they feel the systems exploited them financially.
    Where the IRD website of your account is showing transactions having taken place that never took place. My account shows me having paid amounts and receiving penalties in October 2014 before i was even informed of the outcome of the re assessment. Payments i never made.

    You must note when it comes to child support any person making an objection will always be in dis-favour with the general public, as it is viewed as looking after children you are objecting to.

    If you have no problem appearing on international television i would like to hear from you. You must be able to prove your situation non emotionally, factually, on paper, and that this is a government policy you feel is denying you a basic right to an income, and exploiting your situation financially and what you feel is causing undue hardship in the way it operates.

    my e mail:[email protected]

    PS To the moderator if i am in the wrong section or there is a more appropriate section your advice will be appreciated

    Comment by Barry — Fri 17th July 2015 @ 2:26 pm

  35. #34 Barry
    “Mine was a mistake at a new year’s eve party”
    This means that she was having sex with a person that was drinking. It is a crime to have sex with a person that was drinking as the law defines that they cannot give consent to have sex. She committed the crime of unlawful sexual connection. Obviously you would not have given consent to have sex, or had sex differently, if you knew that she was attempting to get pregnant. Again this is the crime of unlawful sexual connection ‘informed consent’. The law defines that you are not actually liable to pay child support as the pregnancy did not occur with consensual sex. Unfortunately due to our sexually bigoted police force, you cannot apply for this exemption as it requires a prosecution to take place. Forced Marriage is also a crime.

    ? She knew she was pregnant in such a short time. Did you do a paternity test?

    “IRD they had been instructed to collect NZ$9663.25″
    “Inquiry to CS Australia they stated the amount was AU$6437.44″
    ? is this just an exchange rate issue. If not.
    This is the crime of Deception for money by the IRD. It is clear that they did not expect you to check on your obligation in Australia.

    NZ Bill of Rights Act.
    9 Right not to be subjected to torture or cruel treatment
    “¢ Everyone has the right not to be subjected to torture or to cruel, degrading, or disproportionately severe treatment or punishment.

    Human Rights Act
    “¢ 21 Prohibited grounds of discrimination
    “¢ (1)
    “¢ For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are-
    “¢ (a) sex, which includes pregnancy and childbirth:

    Obviously these sections apply to you, considering how you were treated in regard to everything that the state has imposed on you.
    You pay for her sex crime, and she gets financially rewarded for it.
    If given the option would you have chosen to have an abortion?

    “You must note when it comes to child support any person making an objection will always be in dis-favour with the general public, as it is viewed as looking after children you are objecting to.”
    That is driven by feminist ‘pussy whipped’ media, who don’t allow free discussion on this subject. Propaganda can force and create beliefs and behaviour so that people avoid shame.

    In my opinion you are being subjected to the Crime Against Humanity of Slavery.

    The comment
    “I have always accepted my responsibilities”
    Is psychological bribery by those that support female sex offending.
    A responsibility is not something that is forced upon you, without your consent. It’s a crime!
    Making this comment is like a women blaming being raped on what she was wearing. While being forced to give the child created to the rapist, then paying CS for 19 years without the right to even seeing the child.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 17th July 2015 @ 4:11 pm

  36. Isn’t it possible for all the men that are extorted into paying child support that is used for the women’s extracurricular activities rather than for the child to take a class action against IRD much like the class action against the bank unfair $15 fee charge???

    Comment by Rentia — Fri 26th February 2016 @ 8:04 am

  37. Rentia (#36): Good idea. Unfortunately, getting groups of men to agree on something and cooperate together towards that end seems to be like herding cats.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 26th February 2016 @ 8:35 am

  38. When it comes to doing something like turning up of for a protest or making submissions, very few come to the party.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 26th February 2016 @ 8:36 am

  39. Man X, that’s because they’re too busy working to earn the Child Support they are extorted to pay.

    Comment by golfa — Fri 26th February 2016 @ 9:10 am

  40. golfa (#39): Yes, fair comment, there are many men who are so busy and so stressed they can’t manage much else. Yet the herding cats analogy also applies. Simply complaining but going along with the status quo, and refusing to support sensible initiatives started by others, will never achieve change.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 26th February 2016 @ 10:44 am

  41. I have been prevented/stopped from having contact with my son for the past 15 years. This is mainly due to ex-wife being obstreperous. I went back to NZ during that period on three occasions to visit my son and each time she stopped me from having a proper contact with him. She used the biased NZ law to exercise pressure on me and to humiliate me. Believe or not I have seen my son in Auckland street on those occasions and not being to be able to have my son within my environment for what ever time I was there. Clearly she did not want me to be close to my son, so she tried all sort and unimaginable things to stopped from being with son. She succeeded in obtaining order from court preventing the child leaving the country every time I decided to visit NZ without any reasons or justification indicating that I have planned or planning to do this. It is very embarrassing and humiliating situation and very hurtful to hear from my son that he was told my his mother that his dad is dangerous. She refused over the 15 years to compromise and find suitable solution for the both of us which would benefit our child primarily. She also declined that we share physical, legal care of the child and stated that she would not need my dirty money for child upbringing. 16 years later, I found that NZ IRD is asking me to pay extravagant amount of money that is not justifiable. It is not me who did not wont to be part of my son life but it is my ex-wife responsibility. My contribution as a father to the child regarding education, moral and religious are not needed but moneywise yes. Is this fair? Is this acceptable? what are my rights as a father? I regret having lived in that country in the past and I don’t believe that NZ law will take father’s situation into consideration.

    Comment by Youse — Fri 15th April 2016 @ 9:32 pm

  42. The Child Support System is a farce. It panders to low paying parents. My ex gets away with paying the minimum for two kids.It is at its highest at present $74.40, per month TOTAL. He refuses to do anything to provide more for his kids. Now the ex lives rent free by house sitting. Still no word he has removed expenses and offer to pay more per month. The IRD didn’t even know! He works as little as he possibly can and as a result pays virtually nothing. I am left with all the bills and the are way more than $74.40 per month believe me. Step parents end up disadvantaged in the end doing what they can to help. Step parents are not obliged to cover the biological parent’s financial obligations. My kids father says ‘If you have them 100% of the time then you pay 100% of their costs’. They don’t want to go to their father’s (I wish they would). Strange given when he did have the children for full time for a while when they were very young he was happy to take $500+ a month from me. HYPOCRITE.

    Comment by Sharlit — Fri 15th July 2016 @ 6:08 pm

  43. Thanks for your contribution Sharlit (@42). It would be interesting to hear the father’s version of events. His living rent free is irrelevant to his assessed so-called ‘child support’ liability, and irrelevant to the IRD generally. You clearly are not paying 100% of the children’s costs if he is paying $74.40 per month towards them. If you really wanted the children to spend time with their father you would probably be able to make that happen and he would then be quite likely to provide for some of their needs directly rather than paying you and having the children believe their provisions are all coming from you. Instead, your attitude towards him is derogatory and your children’s relationships with him are likely to be affected by that.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Sat 16th July 2016 @ 12:40 am

  44. How I would love to take the CSA agency to court for aiding the IRD in the extorion of my money , how I would love to take her to court for getting pregnant on purpose as a career choice when I was just 17 and having me foot the bill .
    Currently I am awaiting the outcome of an admin review which key word search has led me here , but reading Hornets comment on the matter isn’t giving me much hope either especially after I got off the phone feeling like a criminal !
    My ongoing CS ended this year with $0.00 owing then 3 weeks later I get a 5 and a half thousand dollar bill due to a default assessment for not giving my income details in time to confirm the fact that I did earn what I had forecast .
    Now they are just choosing to ignore the facts in front of them just as hornet said they would choosing to go after me for imaginary income instead of my real income .

    I am now 37 and I have had enough .

    Comment by Bunyip — Fri 22nd July 2016 @ 10:05 pm

  45. A person can get an administrative review, however, that tends to be in favour of the custodial parent, even when the example is specifically provided as the grounds for a review.

    Then when the custodial parent applies for a review, the result can be in their favour, back date, and then IRD can expect you to pay a significant amount of money within 3 weeks. Again not manageable.

    Currently taking the commissioner to court on the grounds that they ignored facts, but also that they made assumptions that were clearly not evident in current situation. But when others hire lawyers, a loss in the case may mean even more will be paid for everyone else’s lawyer costs too.

    Comment by Father — Sat 23rd July 2016 @ 9:51 pm

  46. Good luck Father @ 45. There must be some way to stop the system from continuing its appalling exploitation, dishonesty, injustice and discrimination mainly against men.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Sun 24th July 2016 @ 7:42 pm

  47. Admin review came back in favour of the scrag . Hornet was right in saying they ignore real income instead preferring to keep the imaginary income.
    I wonder what it would take to get a royal commission investigation underway into these faceless cowards and the abuse of basic human rights , extortion and child abuse .

    Comment by Bunyip — Mon 8th August 2016 @ 9:19 pm

  48. I am willing to stand against this we need to take action against this and all stand outside thier offices let the public kno whats happening to us paying parent’s if anyone is keen lets go

    Comment by toki broughton — Sat 29th October 2016 @ 11:20 am

  49. I do not live in New Zealand any longer and will not return even in the form of ashes .

    Imagine the terror that will rain down upon you for putting your face out there toki since they don’t have any humans rights laws to adhere to so don’t let your emotions get you into trouble .

    Comment by survivor — Sat 29th October 2016 @ 1:16 pm

  50. Those petty little State sluts have been on my case for more than a decade.

    If you want to stay in New Zealand you have a fight on your hands anyway.

    Comment by Downunder — Sat 29th October 2016 @ 4:51 pm

  51. #42 Sounds like you could just opt to not receive child support any more and have nothing to do with the ex?

    Comment by too tired — Sun 30th October 2016 @ 2:55 am

  52. Strange given when he did have the children for full time for a while when they were very young he was happy to take $500+ a month from me. HYPOCRITE.

    This gentlemen, is a statement worthy of your due consideration.

    Do you see what’s going on here?

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 30th October 2016 @ 10:28 am

  53. Evan Myers @ 52: No, please enlighten us.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Mon 31st October 2016 @ 7:53 am

  54. If we look back to the days of spousal maintenance and the terminology “in the manner to which she is accustomed” (and since we have progressed through the development of individual employment) what the statement referred to represents is a shift in thinking to –

    The manner in which I desire.

    The suggestion in one comment above that the mother simply opt to have nothing to do with ‘the ex’ is an abhorrent lack of recognition for the father, based solely on financial expectations.

    Comment by Downunder — Tue 1st November 2016 @ 8:02 am

  55. There is a Reciprocal Agreement between New Zealand and Australia regarding child support collection.
    In 2014 the Australian Dept Human Services Centerlink automated billing system started issuing incorrect debt amounts. This also affected persons in NZ whereby incorrect child support debt was issued by Australia and was demanded and deducted by the IRD.
    There are currently multiple class action lawsuits that have been filed in Australia over this issue.
    If you reside in NZ, and pay child support to Australia under this Reciprocal Agreement and feel you were issued incorrect child support debt that was collected by the IRD please contact me via;
    bamaer AT

    Comment by Barry — Mon 17th December 2018 @ 7:03 am

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