MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

False accusations of abuse in the UK

Filed under: General,Sex Abuse / CYF — JohnPotter @ 5:43 am Mon 1st June 2015

I spent yesterday in Cardiff, where Felicity was speaking at the annual conference of FACT – Falsely Accused Caregivers and Teachers. The United Kingdom is currently experiencing a wave of sex-abuse hysteria.

Felicity Goodyear-Smith speaking at the FACT conference

Felicity Goodyear-Smith speaking at the FACT conference

Barrister Chris Saltrese told us that when he first began working in this area a couple of decades ago he thinks there were a couple of dozen falsely accused men in prison. By the turn of the century there were a couple of hundred – now he believes there are thousands.

Saltrese thinks there should be a statute of limitations requiring that a complaint be made within three years of the offense, or of a child reaching the age of majority (ie: 18). He believes it is not possible to get a fair trial for accusations which may be decades old.

We heard about a 96-year-old man with dementia who was charged with sexual abuse. It is not uncommon for people to be arrested for events which supposedly happened in the 1960s or earlier.

The first speaker Simon Warr, a former teacher and broadcaster told us that he spent an astonishing 672 days after his arrest waiting for his trial, where he was acquitted by a jury in just a few minutes. His career as a TV presenter has been handicapped ever since despite the innocent verdict.

FACT Chairman Nicholas Griffin introducing Simon Warr

FACT Chairman Nicholas Griffin introducing Simon Warr

In contrast to the radical feminist influences behind the witch-hunts 1990s, the main driver behind the situation in the UK seems to be the police, and the availability of compensation.

Although crime rates generally in the UK have fallen, police numbers and budgets continue to increase because politicians dare not refuse funding for hunting pedophiles.

Police trawling produces thousands of sex-abuse complainants and “corroboration by volume” has become a standard prosecution tactic.

A former resident of a children’s home told us that the police visited him four times promising substantial compensation if he would make statements incriminating his former teachers.

Another conference attendee was told by a senior police officer that they now have targets for prosecuting sexual offenders, and that police KPIs (key performance indicators) include the numbers of successful abuse prosecutions.

Anna Racoon talking to Felicity Goodyear-Smith

Anna Racoon talking to Felicity Goodyear-Smith

We had an interesting conversation with Susanne Cameron-Blackie, writer of the well-known blog Cameron-Blackie has written a lot about the persecution of public figures such as Jimmy Savile.

MENZ readers will find this blog fascinating I am sure.

One of the most interesting conversations I had was with Nick Smithers, who runs AMIS – Abused Men In Scotland. This is one of the first government funded organisation for men I have heard of. Nick trains police and other social service providers, as well as providing direct support to Scottish men.

Criminologist Ros Burnett introducing Felicity

Criminologist Ros Burnett introducing Felicity

Felicity and I have been wondering if another wave of false accusations is about to hit NZ. It may be that the inability to gain large sums of compensation will protect us.



    Look at the desires to get revenge.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Thu 11th June 2015 @ 4:23 pm

  2. DJ Ward (#2): Interesting article. The white knight lawyer who rode to the rescue of this convicted damsel was reported as saying:

    “There was no medical evidence, no forensic evidence and no eyewitnesses…”

    Welcome to the world of sexual crimes… Hundreds of men in NZ and no doubt thousands in Australia have been convicted of historical sex crimes on the same basis. But when it is (gasp) a woman who is subjected to this process, a government enquiry is called for.

    When men appeal such convictions on the same kinds of grounds that this woman did, i.e. evidential inconsitencies, the possibility that the complainant was motivated by the prospect of financial compensation and/or a grudge held by the complainant against the accused over some unrelated matter, men seldom succeed. But when a woman appeals, the pussy pass is shown and she is acquitted on the grounds that

    there was a ‘real likelihood’ that her accusers had collaborated, and a ‘real possibility’ that the evidence against her had been concocted.

    So, on the basis of no proof and probably no evidence but only a judged ‘possibility’ that the complainants had collaborated and concocted, this woman is acquitted. When a similarly-convicted man provides real evidence to back up his appeal that evidence was concocted or wrongfully motivated, his appeal is still unlikely to succeed and even if it does a retrial, not a full acquittal, is likely to be ordered.

    In this article tear-jerking emphasis was placed on Ms Greensill’s emotional trauma, effects on her mental health and confidence, she is now only a shell of the woman she used to be etc etc. Well, the same applies to every man similarly convicted but journalists seldom seem to see male suffering as worthy of compassion. Instead, males convicted of sexual offences are invariably treated as ‘the scum of the earth’ that Ms Greensill calls them.

    Even though there was clearly no proof that the accusers in her case had lied, Ms Greensill was incensed that they had so far ‘got away with it’ and are walking free in society. Ha! Tell that to the many men who were acquitted on the basis of shonky allegations! How often are unbelievable female complainants against men prosecuted or even investigated for perjury? (Approximate answer: How many fingers do you have on your right hand?) In Ms Greensill’s case, police reported that

    …a review into possible further investigation relating to allegations of perjury, perverting the course of justice and conspiracy ‘remains ongoing’.

    Only in the case of a female dishonoured by male complainants of course. Where are the feminist objections that holding false sexual complainants to account will discourage real victims from coming forward, that false complainants should be treated with compassion because they will have other psychological trauma that motivated their lies, and so forth? Deafening silence in this case, only because it’s males who did the accusing against a female.

    Nevertheless, now that a woman has found herself on the receiving end an enquiry may well bring out the injustice of the anti-male witch hunt that sexual crimes have become. Perhaps it will discover the damage to justice caused by the constant erosion of protections against wrongful conviction, all done to increase the ability of the same poor uncorroborated evidence to extract convictions against men. Such erosions include requiring police to treat sexual allegations as truthful and disallowing thorough police questioning of complainants, allowing police and media to refer to complainants as ‘victims’, allowing cases to proceed at all when they are based purely on complainants’ allegations and nothing else, allowing prior video recordings of police interviews of complainants to supplant complainants’ actual giving of evidence in trial despite the fact that the video interviews are not done under oath, denying the accused a right to face his accuser (by allowing the accuser to speak to the Court from behind a screen or from another room through cctv), removing any limitation on how long complainants can wait before making their allegations and claiming the accuracy of their memories for details from decades before, restricting the cross-examination of complainants and allowing judges to shut down any cross-examination that a complainant seems to find uncomfortable, increasing sentences for sexual crimes to make them harsher than every other crime besides murder (and in some ways harsher even than murder due to Preventive Detention and Extended Supervision Orders), allowing untested ‘victim impact’ evidence to affect sentencing.

    I wonder why the law doesn’t just get honest about its sexism against men by writing a harsher and less fair set of laws for male accused than for female accused. The government seems to have no qualms about maintaining gender specific sexism in law when it comes to ‘male assaults female’, ‘infanticide’, ‘sexual violation by rape’ and a few others, so why doesn’t it just formalize the demonization of male sexuality and the generally sexist treatment our law enforcement and Court systems practise daily against men?

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 12th June 2015 @ 11:58 am


    Of course there was going to be a hung jury. There are men on the jury. Common sense previaled.

    She made an accusation so it must be true? Then again she is not an all together honest person. She was having an affiar, thats honest? The police investigated but found no actual evidence? She went back for more sex? The only other evidence was from the daughter, which does not stack up to the police investigation? No motivation to hate a man that may have split up her parents marriage is there?

    To the husband. “I was only having sex with him because he made me! you believe me dont you honey.”

    And the police will try again. OMG

    At least the lawyers are getting piad.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 15th June 2015 @ 4:14 pm

  4. It always seemed to me that a hung jury rules out the possibility of someone being guilty beyond reasonable doubt, unless new evidence comes to light.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Mon 15th June 2015 @ 9:24 pm


    So how many men are in prison or had there life destroyed by false cliams, just because a women wants revenge against an employer for not geting what they want. Or makes a cliam agianst a partner, to gian advantage in custody matters ‘ Mr livingstone maybe’

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 24th June 2015 @ 2:36 pm

  6. Imagine at 22 hearings in the Family Court (some would say the legal aid gravy train)there had never been an allegation of a sexual nature from the children’s mother.

    She made every other type of allegation but not that. Perhaps she is spite, malice and control personified. Why wouldn’t she make every allegation available when legal aid is just tossed at her, and as we know where there is legal aid there is a legal aid jockey.

    Kathleen Byrne of Harrison Byrne may be a legal aid jockey devoid of genuine talent as a lawyer but who trots out the very nonsense which has contributed to the NZ Family Court reputation.

    It may be that in a desperate effort in a hearing the legal aid jockey asked questions like do you watch your daughter on the toilet? (imagine that) It may be that the presiding judge considered her to be a bag of shit, asking the mother if there were ever any concerns of inappropriate behaviour from the father with the mother saying NO not at all. If this were the case, wouldn’t the court want to see the end of the legal aid jockey? It could make an example in the press of such behaviour, and the result? Restore public confidence – after all, lets face it some might suggest that the public confidence, profile of the Court, some of its officers, and process is so low they could wear a top hat and still crawl under a snake.

    Comment by paul — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 2:04 am

  7. # Paul
    This is so bad Family Courts have not changed one iota since the late 80s . Thats over 30 years 3 DECADES of no change despite massive amounts of evidence of corruption an false accusations in the family courts.
    34 hearings or mediation conferences where the only people present was CYF my lawyer and My partner and I. Her Lawyer and a judge
    Accuser “Mother” absent everytime.
    Children absent never saw them.
    34 conferences that delayed any contact with my children spread over 3 and a half years.
    During this time I found out the Mother was going to move the kids, Got an order from the courts to stay ahead of her only to find out how useless that was because she moved anyway.

    I tried to see the kids and get information from their School. Wow the reaction there was classic Short of repeating every nasty insult from my ex, they told me even as the “FATHER” your not entiled its private information. How the #%&* does that work when your holding a court order and then schools tell you to piss off or theyll call the cops.

    Back in the day I was a staunch activist against this I said ok call the cops…so they did.
    I told the cops in front of all those angry WOMAN, caregivers WOMAN, ADMINISTRATION “WOMAN” STAFF, and low and behold all the other MOTHERS there who were throwing their oar in. Ive just handed you a court order Officer Im demanding my rights as the childrens father with an order from the courts.
    I was removed. Not arrested removed. To howls of abuse and insults from complete STRANGERS all WOMAN.
    I went back to court and suddenly I was facing accusations that I did a RAMBO covert like operation at the local school by the exs Lawyer…no evidence,nothing illegal in fact I had everything in order. However the judge quickly throw this out of court moving on to me saying HOLD ON whats the court order for then if the police refuse to act on it.”and WERE the HELL are my kids?

    I came so close to been arrested and having false accusation from the school leveled at me who were obviously SCHOOLED by the Ex”s Venom it was purely by accident on that day my kids had already been moved from that school with the Mother and Lawyers full knowledge AFTER the court order was issued.So bloody wrong
    Thank god my Girl friend at the time had the day off and was present and witnessed it all.
    My Daughter remembers been told not to talk to strangers specially her FATHER.Just 7 years old brain washed up rooted and moved.
    I got the same treatment with Social Services with a court order. Sorry private imformation not entitled.The same A holes that assisted My Ex in moving the kids with full knowledge of the order
    While at court I had to endure without full knowledge of where the kids are only that the Kids are NOW doing fine in their new enviroment and location…THATS IT. Job done…next MUG.

    To hear the same treatment is STILL been processed and used within family courts 3 decades very sad news
    I am currently re connected with my Children.They are just as tramatized over the whole ugly process as I had been

    mean while the Mother is still having dramas with her other men and her other children Only my eldest Daughter refuses to assist her saying Dad Ive got my own life now and I got sick of looking after everyone been Mother to my sisters and brothers growing up while Mum continued to have Dramas.
    Something I tried so hard for her to avoid so she could enjoying her youth and failed because of complete strangers supporting this system, and its long term effects.


    Comment by joseph — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 9:46 am

  8. Joseph (#8): Yes, utterly disgraceful. Unfortunately, men continue to sit on their hands and put up with it, or they kill themselves. The greenies are currently on the roof at parliament to push their somewhat misguided cause. The men don’t even turn up to lawful protests to have their voices heard.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 1:22 pm

  9. Man X Norton Im aware of this
    Men prior to this and during are full on just looking for any assistance and finding little if any help.So they do something terrible by ending their suffering or give up. Of course it then becomes very real for Parents,children and all associated.
    I can only hope that the Children who have suffered that become Mothers are educated enough to do everything in their power to avoid it happening again.Well thats what Im hearing from my Daughter who so nearly lost hers.
    I fully support you and other MENZ on here with a far better education than mine..You guys are doing a fantastic job” believe It” and yes MEN need their voices heard and be alot more proactive.

    Comment by joseph — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 2:09 pm

  10. yes – there will always be false allegations – but don’t let this cloud the real issues of abuse that are taking place – cardiff had a massive pedophile ring cover up – there are many others…the UK govt has been exposed as having serving ministers who were child abusers….

    In Northland NZ – Winston Won – Why? first time in 70 Years? And when he WON he immediately tried to pass a bill to NAME PEDOPHILES – and this was SHUt down and thrown out……

    take a look at this…

    I have been keeping an eye on this – and it is very disturbing – why? Because if these people performing these rituals are in power – then we have a big concern with ever getting children protected if this is not cleaned up first… is this why many of us see out kids HARMED by the SYSTEM??????.

    Comment by hornet — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 2:34 pm

  11. Joseph, I understand your plight in dealing with the school,

    To make matters worse I allege that the counsel for our children at that time had their GP draft letters to him so that he could present them to the court in a submission.

    The letter explained that the level of access that I was having with the children was compromising their attachment to their primary care giver who is their mother and that overnight access should be put on hold.

    The other letter explained that she (the GP) would not see the children when in her care.

    I had never met the GP with the children and I had only met her once.
    The GP Dr Ruth Brown of Raumati Medical

    A Dr also working there was the wife of someone who comments on this site and is active in Union of Fathers we believe these comments to be accurate.

    In 2012 an excellent Family Court Judge gave me the opportunity to question Counsel on his role. At first he didn’t want to comment but was warned that he would face a dissiplinary hearing unless he did. All he had to do was say no I didn’t do it.

    Instead it appears that he chose silence rather than lie to a Judge.
    The letters sent to counsel then submitted to the court were signed, but the ones sent directly to me from Dr Brown were not.

    The GP was the mother’s GP and the GP directly over the road from our children’s school. Clearly there were close relationships between the school and the GP and made my life so hard at the school.

    Even after a dead body was found hanging from the neck by my then 8 year old son in my children’s garage at the mother’s house the fat arse Dr Brown and counsel did nothing, Not a call, no counselling, no questions as to why this man with problems was at my children’s house, nothing not a thing.

    I felt that it would be my son’s legal right not to walk into his garage and find a dead body hanging there. No.

    Can you imagine the out cry if this meat head had been living at my house and hung himself for my son to see.

    So lets be clear in a school of 700 children with two male teachers guess who is going to be on the back foot all the time – dead body or not.

    Comment by paul — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 3:22 pm

  12. Yes another trick is to make GP finding unavaliable to the public and can even restricted who can view that report. If it falls in your favour you have no reference or signed documents.These Documents can also be challenged any number of times through a Lawyer while the Mother is on legal aid.Even new Doctors are brought in until the Lawyer for the Mother is content.Its corruption yet totally legal.

    Like me you then face the kids moving and then have to do it yourself move unsupported and everything that entails like finding a job, accommadation,etc , Mean while you cant access information thats at their fingertips and Like me have to go through the whole process again with new CYF,Lawyers,etc the lot
    All while paying for it while you still havent seen the kids.

    For awhile that was my life it happened 5 times.Id lost everything while doing everything they asked me to do jumping through hoops suggested in court for the benefit of the children I wasnt seeing.
    The Mother had to do nothing, zip, zero when she is the first that needed Rehab.They gave her everything, everything 20+ years later shes angry because she now has to find work for a crust,broken baggage that couldnt save, budget,or break away and stand on her own without Government assistance.She now lives a life where the small change inside the couch is saved for her next packet of smokes.That or the next Man drake…thank god she cant bred anymore.

    YES its big business when your country supports a blugger all their lives that had more children she knew she could never afford.Happy to do so until they reach age.

    Then its “KARMA” when those children finally break away and are now doing better because they had to miss out or she was regimental too demanding forced to stay home to Parent while she was out.
    My children take after their Father they learn lessons well decide on a course of action and do it.All have good employment and are doing well. Althrough their men are a bit weary understandably so
    I mean I cant help it but I got that look like F#@*^ I hope he dont go off
    Ive had to deal with that all my life.Only Im just too old for that kind of nonsense.

    I have empathy that you sons suffered as well as your position. I do.
    Only its tragic that anyone would take their own life no one that dies taking their life is a meathead Paul, ok no one

    Comment by joseph — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 5:11 pm

  13. All this coming up again is tragic

    It so sad…..

    Peace to all.


    Comment by joseph — Thu 25th June 2015 @ 6:45 pm

  14. Paul (#11): If a GP wrote a letter claiming to assess the impact of a parenting arrangement on the children’s attachment with either parent and recommending that contact with one parent should be limited (on the basis of the GP’s assessment about ‘attachment’), then that GP clearly operated outside her professional expertise. A complaint about this to the Medical Council would be in order.

    What was behind the GP’s refusal to see the children while in the mother’s care?

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 9:02 am

  15. Hornet (#11): From your first link:

    We are a leaderless internet campaign that has sprung up in support of two children from Hampstead, London UK. The children allege that their father is the head of a large cult that is operating through the local schools and churches: he and others are sexually abusing them and other children and trafficking babies internationally for ritual slaughter and blood drinking.

    This stuff is almost certainly false. The children almost certainly have been manipulated (whether intentionally or not) to develop false beliefs and memories. There is now a lot of research that shows how fallible memory is, how easy it is for memories to be implanted or distorted through various methods. Many people in one similar 1980s hysteria firmly believed they had been abducted by aliens and experimented on (often sexually) before being returned home.

    Even more importantly for MENZ Issues, allegations of satanic child abuse rings serve to promote the image of males as demons. The case to which you linked us involved extreme allegations by children against a father almost certainly in the context of a Family Court parenting dispute. The “loving mother” and her new partner were said to be hiding overseas but we don’t know whether they had abducted the children to join them. A judicial finding after investigation found the allegations to be untrue, and also highlighted the abusive treatment of the children by their mother as part of the process of manufacturing the allegations.

    You have brought some superstitious conspiracy theories to MENZ Issues and they cannot go unchallenged. Unfortunately, you shoot the men’s movement in the foot both with respect to credibility and because it supports false allegations against men. Please research such stories more carefully before spreading them.

    Another broader issue is the demonization of male sexuality that is at the basis of these ‘abuse ring’ claims. Remember the feminists long ago claimed “All men are rapists” and that will be at the foundation of stories about satanic ritual abuse rings. Western societies have bought into huge escalations of punishments specifically for sexual crimes mainly committed by men, and have bought into the broadening of definitions so that an increasing range of innocent behaviour can be brought under the mantle of serious sexual crimes, and have specifically for sexual allegations removed or reduced many of the protections that previously existed to avoid false conviction.

    Focus on ‘paedophiles’ presents other problems. In my opinion it’s better to focus on ‘sexual offenders’. Paedophiles are not necessarily child molesters. An alcoholic who has not drunk alcohol for 20 years should not be hunted down and lynched as if a drunk driver. Railing against ‘paedophiles’ becomes a witch hunt based on mind control and removal of people’s right to private thoughts and desires that they may well control successfully throughout their lives. Compassion and fair treatment towards men must be a fundamental aim of the men’s movement.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 10:05 am

  16. Dear Hornet,
    I strongly support Man X Norton’s comments about evidence quality and respecting all parties.

    And I would further add, lets call a spade a fucking spade.

    Much sexual abuse of children is carried out by women, mainly mothers. In almost all cases, it is carried out in the absence of the children’s father (who presumably would be a protective factor, if allowed).

    Perhaps on average, women abusers don’t put quite as much fear into the children about keeping quiet. They do also use threatening tactics about what exposure will lead to for all concerned. These fears cripple children.

    Their sexual abuse of children does undermine the children’s sense of self worth, their confidence in their sexuality and their ability to listen and relate to their adult partners. In short, it all leads to poor mental health. I find it crushing to listen to an hour or two of these stories, let alone what it must be like to live inside such a story?

    Visibility is a big issue. “I don’t know anyone who suffered from childhood sexual abuse from their mother.”

    I could have said that a few years ago. I now know of several examples, that I have known for many years, but nothing was ever said. Shame….

    Once the issue was eventually opened up for discussion, the stories of counsellors disbelief, excusing, denial, refuting, criticising the child victim – were very, very hard to listen to.

    I hope that me speaking in public can make up for their quietness?

    I know this is a similar dynamic to many women not disclosing their abortion history, or earlier sexual assaults or abuse…. Our world is pretty slow to learn. Lets respond constructively to all of these issues?

    The familycaught$ is a major factor in perpetuating all forms of abuse of children, by their totally evidence-free (guessing against the evidence) approach to making decisions, about “protecting” children. It is only by responding constructively to familycaught$ corruption, that we will ever get it to work as Parliament intended all along.

    The Care of Children Act 2004 has some very sensible elements about protecting children, but the skills dearth in familycaught$ leaves these clauses as value-less window-dressing. In the end, they are just relationship vandals. Children are the very thing Parliament sought to protect the most. There are none so blind, as will not see.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 11:18 am

  17. Well at least I got some debate going on the subject – and it is not and never has been my intention to demonise the mens movement as you call it – i have ALWAYS advocated that the Creation of CONFLICT is affecting BOTH man and Women.

    In this case – I don’t believe the TRUTH has come out yet – as I have read it there is evidence something happened to these kids – medical evidence was presented to that effect and appears to have been ignored – suspects with notable tattoos and other features in private areas – which could have only been visible if the children were telling the truth – were NEVER investigated or searched … confirm or deny – thats not an enquiry – thats a cover up……

    It matters not who is doing the abuse – its still abuse ……it matters not what label we put on the people doing it – its still WRONG – and surely this should still concern even MEN on this web site……

    My concerns are raised here to ask a simple question – WHY DO NONE of US – MEN or WOMEN appear to get resolution from the family courts – WHY do we CONTINUE to see kids suffer along with parents – why do we see CONFLICT continue and be actively encouraged and promoted by the very institutions we go to for help??

    And it is not unreasonable to ask – do we have a problem in positions of power – do we have people who are or have been child abusers?? its not unfair to ask that question is it and a good man must stand up and ask that question……

    Again – it appears in this country – no one is permitted to ask the hard questions – for fear of being beaten down and castigated for even daring to do so………

    lastly – it seems to be the knee jerk reaction today for everyone to be labelled a CONSPIRACY THEORIST if they dare talk about something which is not permitted – you can not be involved in a CONSPIRACY as ONE PERSON asking a Question – for a Conspiracy requires more than one person – its also apparent today that this label is often used in a derogatory way to destroy the character of any person who wants to discuss the unpleasant- the truth and obviously something no one wants talked about…..the tactic of the BULLY – the psychopath who does not want to be caught – DARVO – reverse victim offender roles and try and paint the other person as the offender……the conspiracy theorist…..yeh right…..

    Is that why I have touched a nerve here????

    At least we all can agree on the comment – “the family court is a major factor in perpetuating all forms of abuse of children” – the question is WHY – WHY are they doing this – are there people in positions of power who like harming kids??

    I dont know = but we must ask the question else we will never get a response……we will never find he truth if we dont enquire and ask questions – even if they are the HARD questions…….we may not like the answers

    The Objective of all GOOD MEN is to protect kids is it not?? Stand up and PROTECT your family – thats what MEN do……..or am I missing the point again on that one????

    I am sure thats what a good mens web site is about – being a MAN – taking ACTION when it is required – and standing up for innocent – defenceless people – especially children – dealing to the bullies who always pick on the weak and fragile – thats what bullys do – and good men step in and HELP…….of have we lost that as well???????

    Comment by hornet — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 1:04 pm

  18. Sorry Man X – one other point – many of the SUSPECTS in this case -= were WOMEN ……with devil tatoos and such like on their privates areas –

    Comment by hornet — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 1:08 pm

  19. I support Question #1:

    My concerns are raised here to ask a simple question – WHY DO NONE of US – MEN or WOMEN appear to get resolution from the family courts – WHY do we CONTINUE to see kids suffer along with parents – why do we see CONFLICT continue and be actively encouraged and promoted by the very institutions we go to for help??

    I suggest that the answer is criminal abuse of conflict of interest. (Some degree of entrapment will be required to put the guilty behind bars or under gravestones.)

    While the thieves prosper from preying on the public, they have no incentive to support any type of change and they don’t!

    Our Government is “weak” or self protective about any and all forms of accountability. Surely we have better alternatives available? At present, the only hope lies in vigilante justice.

    The other great enabler, is the inability and unwillingness of both fathers and mothers to patiently work together, for their mutual interest! (Hornet mentions that clearly.) They are failing to work their vote power. so, the rort goes on……

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 1:34 pm

  20. So many examples WHY #hornet
    “good men fail to turn up”.
    and it has a lot to do with fear of been attacked and labelled

    “HOMOPHOBIA”…a label,
    Its been legally endorsed and hammered through the media its gone political.
    Somewhere somehow the Gay community have come up with a political label thats totally prejudice.
    You disagree with same sex marriage been a traditionalist and your labelled.”HOMOPHOBIC”
    Like 95.5 percent of all Males find sex with another man disgusting say that and your”HOMOPHOBIC”
    Stand up and say a marriage and Parenting involves two parents Male and Female the importance of both roles been Mother and Father your labelled challenged.
    Is it natural to have 2 Mothers without a Father..hell yes going on statistics legally endorsed
    Is it natural to have 2 Fathers without a Mother, apparently as long as one male behaves like a Mother because Gay couples are sold as strong lovable parents that are capable of inter changeable roles now its legalized.
    Should you challenge this theory your hit with all the failures involving children brought up in a Male and Female marriage statics and outcomes WOW.
    The same people that promote awareness will be the same “in time” that will politicially push and want to introduce same sex married couples looking after and fostering children within the system.Without consent hows that going to feel.A system thats already built towards Woman.
    Its not hard to realize and acknowledge woman advocates and female activists buddy up to Gay rights organizations, because they are staunch activist for equality.They “BRO UP” because whats between their legs on both sides is a non event. So apparently all the negativity and issues regarding a natural relationship suddenly dont apply.
    I really wish that were true, however it does apply because ALL Humans have relationship break downs.
    No human is immune.

    Not so long ago I joined and protested about the “GAY rights movement” putting up a huge poster on the M1 promoting a Father and a Mother showing the birth of their child with the Doctor saying as he lifts the baby towards the Parents ” your having a Lesbian baby ” Wtf. Justified by saying its educating Gay awareness week. really. So its ok to protest with a lie as long as the message gets through. Not with my children thank you.I much prefer my children forming their own minds without been politically influence by a lie.

    Then of course you have health experts selling Trans Gender children. A child thats been tested for a confused state of mind sexually before they are developed enough to experiment naturally.
    Who deny any influence by all concerned themselves included.
    Sorry but for me it goes under “CLEAR INTERFERENCE” and coaching a baby before development this is DANGEROUS and I believe should be illegal and challenge through the law.

    Behind all this is an AGENDA and its not looking good for Males rights let alone their concerned and welfare for their children.
    There are so many issues WHY men dont front they are been beaten into submission or go passive and slide away.I stopped looking for a woman with my Grandmothers values and starting looking at woman with todays values. They are an ocean apart.

    Humans are losing something, we are disconnecting, fragile and will eventually break. Those that are left will have no choice but to go back to the start and move forward from the beginning because in this life I see ourselves as destroyers when nothings left I hope it not our end.

    Comment by joseph — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 3:13 pm

  21. Jo, I think you are right in that the system has made it EASIER for parents to split – thats deliberate – just like they prefer to see everyone with an alcohol or drug problem – it makes us all easier to control……when people wake up to that – its a great disincentive NOT to drink or take drugs… free and independent like we were meant to be….

    I try to live by a simple rule – the golden rule – treat others how you would like to be treated – or in essence – don’t harm another human being through your actions……if you take this view – it matters not what peoples sexual preferences are. That is private and personal and really who cares what people do behind closed doors…….it does not affect me in any way.

    My point is the system I went to for help – permitted and encouraged my child to be harmed – and I want to find out why – and I want those who caused this to be held to account…….and the system must be improved upon so this does not happen again – otherwise we are all just permitted the abuse to continue to the next generation as you suggest Joe –

    Massive change in the world only happens when good people stand up and oppose things that are WRONG and this entire Family Court shambles in NZ is so fundamentally WRONG – we know this so stand up and demand change……

    #16 and #17 manx and murray ( you agreed with all Man X had to say ) – I don’t understand your logic – are you suggesting that if we have men who are child abusers or pedophiles we don’t do anything about it?? – we keep quiet because it could damage the reputation of men and this movement / web site???? Because talking about it or exposing it might harm the mens movement??

    That can not be your view – surely?

    Comment by hornet — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 4:13 pm

  22. Thank you hornet
    All this has come back to bite, hence my posts been aggressive. you are correct I want to stick to the issue,Only I vent on here because re connecting with my Daughter and the past is haunting. Im outside my comfort zone at home.My tiny wife has helped change in my life.With 14 years of education from another culture thats so different from my own and believes in never losing face. I fell in love with her over it. we call it “our way”
    Im not sleeping well I thought I had it together…I dont. I buried this so deep in order to move on believing that whats happening regarding my children after the time lapse would never ever happen.22 fkn years!

    My wife and I havent been able to have children shes young enough only I work away,her working in the airwaves, long flights in gravitation,her period complications that are not only hers but work friends effected the same who are barren too.All wanting children shes fighting to hide that hurt I can feel it.
    I became a grandfather at 40 she was a step grandmother at I had alot of fun with that when we first met,only there was never any contact with the kids.
    So I apologise if I dump on here go off tangent , vent cursed or share here I dont mean anything personal or wish to harm in any way ” That includes every Human”
    Im just releasing stuff thats coming up, and I want everyone to know this because Im scared. “thats all”
    If you people can bear with me Ill get there.Thank you.

    Comment by joseph — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 5:46 pm

  23. Joseph – there is NOTHING to FEAR – NOTHING at all…… up, be honest, admit your failings and rise above and be proud of who you are – your kids will love you because you are their FATHER – remember that -first and foremost a child loves their dad……they only have one – just like they only have one mother……

    Fear is what destroys rational thought – read up on my blog Fear destroys us all = thats why the system wants us in perpetual FEAR – so we cant thing straight……..let go of all FEAR.

    Be hones with your kids – talk to them openly and they will listen – no one is perfect – none of us are – we all have failings – that is human nature – what we have to all do = is learn from the mistakes…..

    Not even these politicians are faultless – the only difference there is they have teams of lawyers who keep their secrets hidden – they all have failings just like us – they just hide theirs in an attempt to appear – PERFECT…..another lie…….

    Comment by hornet — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 6:51 pm

  24. watch this video MEN – if something is wrong – challenge it – ask questions…….

    Comment by hornet — Fri 26th June 2015 @ 7:08 pm

  25. The Problem is Civil Obedience

    1970 from the Zinn Reader, Seven Stories Press

    Howard Zinn is dead right. Reminiscent of George Orwell’s 1984.

    1970 is a long time ago, well more than 2 generations, yet what he says is more true today, than when he said it!

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 27th June 2015 @ 10:25 am

  26. Those who don’t learn from history, are doomed to keep repeating it.

    Accountability that was never really intended to work !
    Are unmanaged conflicts of interest hazardous to our children and our wealth?

    All you are meant to do (according to graphiti beside Sydney rail tracks):

    Eat, consume, Die!

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 27th June 2015 @ 11:08 am

  27. Murray I am pleased we agree – its very interesting that Howard Zinn references the SPIRIT of the DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE – NOT the Constitution – but the document which defined AMERICAN INDEPENDENCE from Europe and its controls – which only came about because of the direct refusal by colonialists to accept new TAXS which were unjust and other harsh penalties and controls – that the colonists had run away from in the first place ……the most famous – the BOSTON TEA party – throwing the tea into the SEA rather than paying an unjust tax on Tea, there were a number of other enactments which the colonists simply refused to accept – the stamp act, the Iron act, the Tea Act…..

    if you want to see this man at his eloquent best – watch the video below….

    Another man who had things very much defined way back in 1948 was Albert Speer – one of hitlers henchmen – who had a conscience after the war and stated – the more technology governments get – electronic spying and so forth – the less human rights the people will have – he forecast that as a danger for the future – he saw what Hitler did with technology and how he suppressed and killed people – even his own people – and here we are in 2015 facing that exact concern…..

    Comment by hornet — Sat 27th June 2015 @ 12:17 pm

  28. When there is a problem its important we all look to fix it…… is an example of someone taking action and holding people to account – regardless of gender if they do wrong to kids – or in this case – refuse to investigate crimes – perverting the course of justice to protect a few……..Man X and Murray – I do hope you see my point = if there are problems at the top with child abusers and pedophiles – regardless of gender , we need to fix that before it filters down to us …….

    We have coverups in NZ right NOW – that need to be exposed and investigated publicly……..

    Comment by hornet — Sat 27th June 2015 @ 1:03 pm

  29. Dear Hornet, beatups about small groups of people can easily just be smokescreens that delay the socially most important remedial actions. The Prosecutor’s Handbook comments that prosecutors should be mindful to actually serve the public interest, rather than just go for easy wins for statistics.

    I prefer that attention, analysis, resources, energy be focussed onto the socially most expensive and damaging problems. To sum them up in one word – corruption and its close cousin, incompetence. (In other words, I am saying the same as the Prosecutor’s Handbook. Same thing as focussing medical resources to give the best return in reducing DALYs, Disability Adjusted Lost Years.)

    That includes the unmanaging of gambling under Sky City/National Party, unmanaging of alcohol retailing, unmanaging of familycaught$ under both Nabour and Lational Parties, unmanaging of taxation of wealthy individuals…..

    Sure, we are nowhere near as bad as USA, Russia, India in terms of corruption. However, our corruption is quite bad enough to be seriously hindering social and economic development in NZ.

    Then to look at costs to remediate and the returns.

    familycaught$ corruption and incompetence are the highest cost problems due to the damage being done to the quality of children’s upbringing and resulting criminal antisocial behaviours, so should be among the issues tackled first.

    Cheers, Murray.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 1:08 pm

  30. Thanks Murray, which is why I consistently raise alarm and concern with the administrative bodies that we employ to monitor govt activity and keep them honest – refusing to engage in investigations for as in my case 2 years – and in other instances there is a complete refusal to investigate genuine concerns by citizens = which as I post in my blog – is the tactic of avoiding accountability and enquiry – so they are never held to account…….

    Human rights, privacy office, Ombudsman’s office – all simply delay – delay delay – and as in my case make every effort to try and destroy your credibility in that time – so if they have to investigate what you say – no one will believe you…….this is the very tactic of corruption and coverups…….

    I focus on Child Abuse in the case above – because its clear to me – if Family court destroys kids – deliberately – then one must ask – do we have people in charge of these institutions who get off on harming kids???? Because only those who enjoy harming kids would permit this to continue – year in year out……

    The numbers of MP’s as in the UK< who have been exposed as Child Abusers is a fact – and should raise concern within society.

    These instances above – of even police being caught covering up investigations into child abuse is a massive concern for the public…who were they protecting by not conducting enquiry?

    There are as I read instances of Child Abusers in high places in NZ power – and this has to be a concern to every NZer – especially parents who have been through the family court and witnessed their kids being harmed…….and nothing done about it…….Im one of them – my child was harmed and no one did a thing about it… fact the family court encouraged the very behaviour which caused the harm – against all my protestations and hundreds of affidavits…..asking for HELP……to protect her…..

    So again I ask – do we have a problem at the top ? That must be fixed if those of us at the bottom are to ever see change……

    Comment by hornet — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 4:34 pm

  31. A detailed report on the FACT conference has been published on the Justice Gap website:
    The misery of false allegations.

    It is well worth a read.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 6:09 pm

  32. All agreement aside, it seems that you have faith that a complaint laid to the “judges” will result in them announcing, “we got it wrong, we will give your money back and right the wrongs that we caused!”.

    Life rarely unfolds like that, especially in soviet NZ.

    It is more common for disgruntled customers to complain to MPs and perhaps give constructive suggestion, a policy like this will force familycaught$ to work safely for children and efficiently for adults, can we try this as the new policy?

    If enough citizens (men and women) get behind a proposed policy, then MPs are forced to seriously consider it.

    The french kings didn’t stand happily aside, they resisted until their heads fell off. I am sure that our “judges” are just as addicted to a rich and easy existence, as the french aristocracy was.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 6:19 pm

  33. John, thanks for posting this….. when I was in the police I fortunately saved a number of people from being arrested and charged because of a false / fraudulent / fictitious allegation of a sexual nature….

    From an ex detectives point of view if it helps anyone here – what I noted was that its all about EXPERIENCE – if you have an experienced Detective or investigator – they will in most cases see the warning signs that a complaint is not genuine – not real.

    My concerns since leaving the police – is that many investigators today are relatively inexperienced – this is largely due to the number of young staff coming in – while older experienced staff have long gone…..we saw a massive exodus of experience in the NZ police with the Traffic merger – anyone that was good at the investigative work – left to start private companies – so this greatly affected the police as a whole – they never made any effort to try and retain than experience….

    Its also apparent now we have a ticket book , no discretion , lock everyone up and hope for the best policy – to keep the arrest stats high – that there is limited investigation to ensure that those charged are in fact facing genuine allegations.

    So we have a number of concerns at the coal face – when people are first coming into contact with police – taking complaints and then investigating and arresting…..

    All this aside – if there is sound evidence to substantiate a complaint then clearly people have to face the music….at which time there are hearings to then determine prima facie if there is a charge to answer for trial ….that should be a check and balance to see if the police have actually gathered sufficient evidence to prove the case and establish the truth…..

    What disturbs me with the whistleblower kids case – is there does appear to be good evidence which was suppressed from the enquiry, deliberately – had this evidence been checked out early – it would have proven if the children were telling the truth or not……but this was never done – and that concerns me as an ex – investigator.

    Im also concerned given the massive coverups that appear to be happening – that we don’t now have a campaign to suggest that all these historical allegations – are ALL just false allegations…….for not all of them can be false… fact very few are false from my experience – usually medical evidence , trauma, injuries, and the very demeanour of victims tells you they are not lying……..and as per my point above – experienced officers will tell immediately if a complaint is suspicious and perhaps not truthful – means motive and opportunity…….who what why where when and how….ask these questions of every allegation and you usually get to the TRUTH…….

    Or – Do we have massive incompetence and inexperience on a grand scale?

    Comment by hornet — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 9:09 pm

  34. hi Hornet
    once again thank you for your support.
    Id like to ask questions about Paternity testing. ( yup) the exs has thrown another last salvo even naming this person..
    My Daughter because of her Mother has nagging doubts about who her father is and has mention this to me.Mainly she just wants closer and is horrified with you know who.
    I wont go off track about what this caused personally specially hearing this over the net and then the phone., only that we are dealing with it through understanding and support thanks to sound advise and finally trust myself to open up sitting down with my wife. We are all good then this happened…only its no big surprise knowing this horrible person we are forced to deal with.
    Apparently my daughter has been in contact with this person. Hes saying she looks like one of his kids. Not hard to guess hes still a friend of the Exs..
    Its just utter B/S I cannot believe this but anyway

    What can you recommend to help please.
    Are these tests reliable between my daughter and the other person?
    What can I do if Im in another Country to prove I am her Father and Hes not
    in New Zealand are there current laws against falsely naming a Father.

    I would appreciate any assistance from any one Who could help.
    I read the above and Ive google Parternity DNA tests results but is it 99.5 percent.
    Can I trust the system to get this right for once

    thank you.

    Comment by joseph — Sun 28th June 2015 @ 11:41 pm

  35. Hi Hornet, “Do we have massive incompetence and inexperience on a grand scale”?

    From my experience this certainly is the problem.

    I was arerested without question last year after my partner went to police and claimed she had been savagely and repeatedly brutalised after being thrown to a tiled floor by the throat.She claimed that she was held down while being kicked and punched and the assault went on for what she claimed was “a while” According to her statement the attack began after I wouldn’t answer her which made her extremely angry so she hit me in the head. She also admitted to assaulting me my removing a wall mirror and assaulting me with it. Nobody asked me what my injuries were.
    She had no bruises, no split lip,claimed she was in no pain, not even a broken nail.

    The arresting officer was a former security guard from Punjab who had been sworn in 18 months earlier .
    He got to the words “court of law” before I realised I was being arrested without question. Apparently he joined the police because he wanted to join a “field”.

    How many hours or weeks training is considered sufficient for a foreigner of a dissimilar culture to be able to make make descisions affecting New Zealanders so drastically.
    I spent 50 hours in a cell,dispite my name being on the lease at my apartment I was made homeless and all my posessions were now hers.
    After thousands of dollars for a defended hearing and nine months of waiting for a hearing.. she didn’t front to court- verdict: “unfounded”.

    Police believe that a woman has been brutally bashed when CLEARLY there is nothing wrong with her.

    Even when its known the woman assaulted the man, that only serves as more reason the man should be arrested without question.

    Common sense was not a requirement at the time of my arrest.

    My question to you and others is this:

    If the woman had claimed that she was in her car while it was rammed and attacked repeatedly by a man in another car… yet there was no panel damage whatsoever would she be believed and the man be locked up?

    I believe police are systematically in breech of the constables oath that says “without bias”.

    If it had been people of diferent skin colours, and the known abuse of one was considered irrelevant – we would call this discrimination.

    If it is people of different sex we call it … Justice ?

    What happened to human rights.?

    Comment by voices back from the bush — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 12:15 am

  36. A correction. The verdict was “unproven” not unfounded.

    Comment by voices back from the bush — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 12:33 am

  37. #35 joseph
    “Are these tests reliable between my daughter and the other person?
    What can I do if Im in another Country to prove I am her Father and Hes not
    in New Zealand are there current laws against falsely naming a Father.”

    The tests are very reliable no matter who is being tested.

    You could do a private test ‘services on the internet’. You will need your daughter to do the swab for her. You will need to do the swab for you. This will tell if you are, or are not the father. It will not say if the other man is the father, but if he supplied the swab to test, then you could test if he was the father and it would be an equaly accurate test. The baseline failure rate ‘for you’ is 10% but rises to 40% if there is suspicion of infidelity by the mother.

    Even if you were to test his paternity with your daughter, and he is not the father, this still does not gaurantee that you are the father. The mother may have slept with many men.

    There is no specific law that makes falsely naming a father on a birth certificate a crime. the law has been specificaly written to protect women who commit this sex crime. There is even an exemption from perjury for women who commit this sex crime.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 8:37 am

  38. 36 – if we now have a CORPORATE Police force – which is focused on REVENUE Collection rather than providing a Service to human Beings – then you can see a danger arising from the debate we are having here now – the police are NO LONGER interested in being their to treat people as humans – they are there to treat you as a CUSTOMER…..

    If we take this a step further and we have privately run prisons – who are paid per customer – then we have serious dangers arising in society – because the both the prison and the police need more CUSTOMERS to survive……

    As for human rights = a Corporation is LEGALLY entitled to ACT as if it were a PERSON – but not a person, a Corporation cannot breath or have feelings – which is why the Corporation will never give you HUMAN RIGHTS = because it is NOT and never will be HUMAN.

    Many good ranking police have been removed – retired early and exited and replaced with robots with little or no care… are just a statistic now – not a human being………this is real and its happening right before our eyes…..

    Social service privatisation – CORPORATION is coming next – are you going to let it?

    Comment by hornet — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 8:44 am

  39. Hornet, you make really good points. We are lucky enough to live in a country where we are allowed to discuss issues that matter. The Gulag system in Russia was the type of business you describe. The gulags were a slave labour (mainly gold mining) business that were run in conjunction with the police who were always looking for customers. Millions died in the gulags, most of them had committed no crime at all and many were sent because Russians were paid by the police to inform on their neighbours. ‘Communism’ as they called it was early corporatism; a massive conn against the people. It was financed by the wealthiest people in the world who confiscated all the wealth while they hid behind the state. In the end 66 million Russians were murdered.

    Comment by Alex — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 9:19 am

  40. thank you Dj Ward
    Yes Ive investigated clinics testing and procedure.
    we shall see,all thats left is wait and see.
    As far as the mother concern…well
    If a truck run over her face right now I doubt Id blink.

    Comment by joseph — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 9:24 am

  41. Alex, so do you not see this exact same form of “COMMUNISM” being forced on NZers” MARX was very good at identifying the changes in society – Feudalism to Capitalism to Socialism to Fascism ……

    We are at that turning point now – Farmers for example with Fonterra – have sold their souls to the corporation – they are now slaves to the corporation – exactly as Marx described – Capitalists buy up all the farms, and then over time hand the farms back to the farmers forcing the farmer to carry the massive debt and al the costs supplying their product at a price controlled by the corporation – while the capitalist no longer burdened with any costs or debt – sits back and controls the entire market….thats where we are now – socialism….

    Once the farmers wake up and realise they are controlled entirely – always kept in debt – always manipulated with meagre payouts – then they either revolt or we end up in an entirely fascist control system…….this is history repeating its self….humans have short memories……

    Chicken farmers, Corn farmers, beef farmers in the US are already at this point – totally controlled by the capitalist system.

    If they try and break free – they have no market for their product……we are lucky in NZ – as we see some farmers able to move over to the independents and take a higher milk solid payout – but will they be attacked and shut down at some time in the future???

    In NZ I have spoken to farmers – and the ONLY real benefit they have recently been getting was the “shares” and the returns they provided – but even those are no longer attractive…..

    Free speech – if you had not already noticed – we are being slowly curtailed from speaking, passing on information – increased spying is exactly that – scaring people – intimidating people from talking to each other for fear of being watched…..if you ever try complaining to the privacy commissioner about any breaches to your rights – they will simply refuse to investigate your concerns …….so I think privacy and rights to free speech are almost dusted……Net neutrality is a scam wrapped up as a solution – which really only provides excuses to shut down so called DISSENTERS – or people wanting to speak the TRUTH….

    Rights to own Private property are next on the hit list – using the family courts and child support systems to remove parents rights to own property is well underway…….it provides the excuse as they pit mum against dad…….while we signed up to UN treaties to protect these rights, we have refused to enact laws in NZ to protect them…….so we are good at suggesting we have rights – when in reality our own justice system is refusing to protect them at law……my case where my wifes car was seized under illegal warrant was an exact example of this – she was an innocent citizen targeted for asset seizure…..

    Comment by hornet — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 10:36 am

  42. I agree on those points. I think private enterprise in combination with government services is best. The USA has laws against monopoly takeover but the corporations put their own people on the bench and it wasn’t long before a corporation was defined in law as a ‘person’, leading to ultimate capitalism. If unchecked it means that the elite will buy up and own everything. After that the only way they can keep it forever is to make sure the people are ignorant and poor so its far from natural, it is very selfish. I see breaking up families and destroying the middle class is their game. I especially agree free speech is in jeopardy. Truth is ‘hate’ to those who hate the truth.

    Comment by Alex — Mon 29th June 2015 @ 11:34 am

  43. Australia house sales are getting caught selling them as a immigration passport. Hundreds of homes going for millions of dollars with a bonus of $60,000 and up wards..outrageous.

    Comment by joseph — Tue 30th June 2015 @ 4:15 pm

  44. Alex – the new bill in the house today will SHUT DOWN FREE SPEECH on the net…..Digital Communications Bill is so broad – causing harm to a victim – whether with intent or not – with the subjective test thrown in for good measure so anyone can have an opinion as to how harmful your comments are…..Net Neutrality bill in the US is already doing this….

    I just saw a Blog exposing pedophile rings in the UK – involving people in power – SHUT DOWN today under these exact terms …….

    These bills are all about protecting corruption of power – nothing more…..

    Speak the TRUTH and you are gone….you will be identified as a threat to national security, a terrorist, a dissident, a non conformer …..

    Those who have corrupted power are panicking that the dirty secrets are getting out and the sick ones were being exposed publicly……

    Comment by hornet — Tue 30th June 2015 @ 4:47 pm

  45. NZ Bill of Rights

    13 Freedom of thought, conscience, and religion
    Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, religion, and belief, including the right to adopt and to hold opinions without interference.

    14 Freedom of expression
    Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.

    15 Manifestation of religion and belief
    Every person has the right to manifest that person’s religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private.

    17 Freedom of association
    Everyone has the right to freedom of association.

    The new law may have its effects, but these will be specific, bloggers will just need to be more considered in how they say things. Aviod naming people, avoid saying things like, i wish my ex would put a rope around her neck, etc

    This new law is bound to be tested in court due to its blatant contempt for the bill of rights.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 1st July 2015 @ 2:16 pm

  46. The Bill of Rights clauses are excellent and their meaning is quite clear but leaving interpretations is much too important to leave to a Court of law IMO. If anyone is interested, Internet NZ has put together a discussion document

    Comment by Alex — Wed 1st July 2015 @ 5:04 pm

  47. Gentlemen – its one thing to list Rights – its another to actually give them to the people – my direct experience with the authorities is they simply REFUSE to investigate complaints – procrastinate, delay, refuse to take complaints on matters which all of us would find disturbing…….that is the trap we all fall into….

    NZ has an horrendous record as recently reported in actually delivering RIGHTS to the people….

    When Corporations such as the UN hold mandates over the people – who will have the money as a single citizen to challenge breaches – when we cant even get justice from those in control of your own country…???

    When a corporation has control of your “rights” …offshore – you will have NO CHANCE – you will simply find yourself in the CORPORATE PRISON For daring to ask for those rights and complaining…….

    Im now two years into demanding the NZ Ombudsman investigate my concerns with breaches of RIGHTS in NZ – and they now refuse to even take my calls – so the complaint has now been NOTIFIED ….but NOT INVESTIGATED……

    The system is a complete SCAM – this from a man who was in the POlice, who created international companies, who created and provided many jobs for NZers – generating INCOME and PROSPERITY and OPPORTUNITY – and I have been totally appalled by the corruption of a few down there in Wellington…..

    Comment by hornet — Wed 1st July 2015 @ 5:22 pm

  48. UK Prosecution Service view about prosecuting false allegations. Note the very low rate assumed for false allegations…
    Charging Perverting the Course of Justice march 2013 UK CPS Civil Prosecution Service Alison Levitt QC

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sun 26th July 2015 @ 5:48 pm

  49. Yes Murray,
    Out of almost 112000 domestic violence convictions. 6 prosecutions for false complaints.

    Police are instructed that bringing men in droves to courts based in little or no evidence isn’t just good. Its great. !

    The prosecutors are very clever at making men appear guilty.
    That of course is if the man does against all advice and defends himself at all.
    Even if he is totally innocent he Is much better off pleading guilty.
    It will be over quicker, cost much less and if he plays nice with anti violence programming he can have the matter sponged off his record anyway.
    Plead not guilty or ask for a verdict by jury and he will likely serve time if found guilty.
    I was told by people experienced in court matters that I was wasting my time pleading not guilty as judges “er on the side of caution” and favour the “victim” to be on the safe side. I was told its important to have a lawyer but don’t hope to be found not guilty, the lawyer isn’t for that it’s just to get you a lesser sentence after conviction.
    There was no evidence that I’d done wrong but plenty of evidence of the assault on me which of course didn’t appear in police disclosure documents.
    The moment that constables pen hit his notepad there was only intent to convict me – no consideration of facts is the process.
    Guilty until proven innocent is what an accused man finds himself up against if accused by a female.
    No correspondence with police can be considered as police refuse all “dialogue”.
    It’s not just with police but guilty until proven innocent by the courts also. One example is protection orders are issued after domestic violence has been claimed but not proven. Court cases to make the protection order a permanent must happen within 3 months yet the criminal hearing takes much longer so a man can expect a permanent scar on his record without any evidence presented of wrongdoing.
    Fortunately for me the “victim” didn’t show up to that hearing either. ( she was long gone with my stuff)
    Trying to defend yourself in court against domestic violence is like trying to ring japan on a toy cellphone.
    The “Victim” isn’t required to show up so her testimony remains unquestionable.
    I walked out of court and chatted to two men who were both in the very same situation as I was. Assaulted and then accused. Its a fucking epidemic Murray.
    Any man who has spent more than a day or two falsly imprisoned knows what I’m meaning when I say time spent in cells is a much diferent experience for the falsly accused.
    Those that know that they’ve wronged Largly accept thier fate and busy themselves as best they can.
    For those falsly accused its much different.
    Imagine your stuck in an elevator. Eventually the wall phone rings and a lift mechanic tells you your gonna have to stay there because you pushed a wrong button or mabye you pushed two at once. It’s your fault so they’ve decided you shoud remain there. You can’t contact anyone to let them know what’s happened or explain why your not at work.
    You can’t contact your family. Everyone worries where you are.
    Your uncomfortable and you sit there and you wait.
    Time passes more slowly than you thought possible.
    You wait and wait and wait.
    You know you didn’t push the wrong fucking buttons and the frustration and and anger begins to build and build.

    This indignity will likely be the worst almost any man will ever experience in his lifetime.
    After 50 hours I was waggoned to court where I was bailed and told I’d never see my home or belongings again. I badly needed a shower and I was standing outside the courthouse in the cold rain.
    I was elated though, just to be out of that cell.
    Through nine months of living accused of beating up a pregnant woman I had to be extremely careful as I was now ready to explode from frustration and anger .
    The court case came and went but it’s now 15 months since I was accused and the same frustration and anger remains with me. I am a totall different man now.
    Possibly dangerous. Not very good company.
    I walk on the pavement close to the edge as I worry that if someone bumps into me I might just react instantly.

    I am now afraid of women and the harm their tounges can do.
    Involving myself in another relationship is not a consideration.

    I was a residential tiler. You have to be extremly polite and relaxed and confident when working on people’s homes but you also have to stick up for yourself when female clients pressure you to finish faster or want more than is quoted.
    I had great difficulty consentrating and it seemed to take twice as long to achieve good results.
    I had to give up my job in fear that one of these homeowner wives would walk up behind me – surprise me and moan about something and I would turn around and take her head off with the trowel in my hand.
    I went commercial tiling where there wasn’t a woman for miles and I felt safer.
    I would’ve liked some time off but instead worked 70 hours a week because I had to quickly find several thousand dollars to pay for a barrister.
    ird reevaluated my child support and although I was getting $ 27/ hour they decided I should pay 300/week for child support because I was trying so hard. I’ve got a 12 year old daughter who lives in Auckland.
    Also they backdated the new figure to the beginning of the financial year instantly putting me 5800 in debt.
    I still go to counselling and try to deal with this anger issue as best I can.
    Mostly though I stick to myself living alone in a sleep out at the back of someone’s house.
    I decided to try to help others as part of my therapy so for the past few weeks I volunteer 15-20 hours /week at chch city mission. Homelessness in chch is always an issue that’s frustrated me. We’ve got thousands of empty homes and the police would rather kick them to the curb or imprison them. homeless people caught swatting together are given non association orders so many can’t even go and get food from sallies or city mission. They got no address – they get no benny.
    We give them good clothing and shoes which helps to mask the problem.
    It’s been good for me to volunteer and I have found it helps me not to dwell on things but I now realise that the anger will remain with me and that I’ve got to find ways of dealing with it.

    Yes I can still tick the box that’s says “no criminal convictions” when filling out forms.

    But I sit here and wonder how that’s really of benefit.

    I’m now quite different to the man I was.

    I spat on a police car one day. And I’d do it again.

    And I’m not a man that feels – innocent.

    Female violence advocates think its a good thing what I’ve been through. They just keep crying for more of the same.

    They just want more men put through this DV ringer.

    Seemingly the only time they give it a seccond thought is when it happens to thier sons. And they realise there’s nothing they can do to help them.

    I’ve not been able to find any police or govt equiries at all about nz DV false allegations. Please let me know if you know of any.

    Comment by Voices back from the bush. — Sun 26th July 2015 @ 8:41 pm

  50. Here is an interesting article.
    Not saying he was guilty or not, but you do have to ask why so many ‘females’ were fighting for him.

    Many on MENZ have talked about those perverting justice, or obstructing justice are not being held to account.
    This article shows why.
    Firstly the person being protected must be male. The victim must be female.
    Obviously for the family court, the victim is male and the offender is female so ‘any perversions of justice are OK’

    Notice how severe the punishment is. 3 years which is more than the offence he was convicted of.
    Note to women, Try and protect a man from injustice and you will be punished. Protect women all you want, as bigotry is OK in NZ.

    And this, from the judge.
    ‘she was now “effectively deprived of the female side of her family”.’
    Which is interesting for when women pervert justice to stop men seeing their children. Because the judiciary clearly have never said the opposite. Depriving children of fathers is so normalised that they dont notice.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 3rd August 2015 @ 4:16 pm

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