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IRD Payments

Filed under: Child Support — midnighthauler @ 3:58 pm Wed 24th June 2015

I have just been notified by my sons school who I have had know contact with since Jan, that he has decided to leave and has a job. He is in process of completing sign out papers (not sure how long that takes, if anyone can enlighten me). He is taking on a full time job but I am not privy to that information. My battle will continue with IRD and payments I bet even if and when I inform them.

They rang the other day and I lost the plot and said to poor girl on ph its a wonder us dads want to commit suicide due to the constant harassment from you. Not long after hanging up the police arrived on my doorstep to assess my state of mind. If its not ph calls then its letters in the mail and it is wearing me down.

31 Responses to “IRD Payments”

  1. Colin says:

    Hahha the POLICE!! Shit I’ll try this next time too!

    Good news about your son. A job means independence from his mother and it means no more CS payments. You need to advise IRD that he has a job otherwise they’ll keep demanding the cash

  2. Non custodial Dad says:

    I agree with Colin. The rules are that provided your son is working for at least 30 CONTRACTED hours per week then CS stops even if he is under 19 years old as he is then considered to be independent. Just write to IRD and tell them what you have been told and that you want them to confirm the position with your ex (they won’t contact him) and then confirm that your obligation for him ceases as soon as he starts work.

    I know first hand of a guy who had a similar situation about 18 months ago when one of his children left school aged about 16.5 years and IRD followed the matter up as he requested. But sadly he still deemed liable even though that child had left school as that child was not CONTRACTED to work 30 hours. What was interesting to note however was that so far as IRD was concerned even if a child works 30 hours a week on a regular basis if it is not CONTRACTED hours then CS is still payable! Go figure…… I’ve seen the correspondence!!!

    Can’t help about sign out procedures. Ask the school or failing them the Min of Ed! Good luck.

  3. Robyn says:

    mm so sorry you are going through this. My husband has a (now grown child) from a previous marriage and paid his child support religiously for 19 years. He and the child’s mum were on very good terms for most of the 19 years and even she was horrified at how the IRD treated him when she was at university, hence, payments had to go through IRD. He was treated like a criminal – he received dirty letters saying he owed money and when he finally got through to talk to someone they were forever saying “it was a computer error”… It was disgusting and caused a great strain on all concerned. Once she was working after university she was very keen and they did have their own agreement for child support. So I can imagine what you and many other people are going through that have to deal with IRD for child support.

  4. hornet says:

    Ill keep posting and advising parents – these people DELIBERATELY look at every way possible to DESTROY you…..even if you do everything right as you have highlighted at #3…….

    I have tabled evidence with the Ombudsman in NZ to investigate clear breaches by Family court – who refuse to Enforce Court orders to see a child, permit parental alienation, refuse to protect the child from the ensuing SEVERE harm this caused…

    Complaints against Child support in demanding more than a parent EARNS in INCOME, Conducting Reviews against all the rights to DUE process and fairness, getting secret warrants, breaking into our property while we were away, illegally seizing my wifes car – unlawful search and seizure, invasions of privacy and direct breaches of rights to due process – and two years down the track they are still looking into it…….parents I implore you to defend your rights else you will lose them.

    My point is a simple one – you cannot destroy a mans ability to earn a good income – by destroying him in refusing him time with his own child – and then continue to demand the high income assessments they have directly prevented him from earning…..that is exactly my case…….

    No wonder NZ has such an horrendous record on Human rights ….recently we were heavily criticised in a study which showed we sign up to these obligations but are severely lacking in adhering to them…..Nz Human Rights reputation at RISK….below….people need to be sacked over this……

    http://www.aut.ac.nz/midyear-pg/story2?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=article2&utm_content=headline1&utm_campaign=midyearPG-2015

    As for suicidal tendencies,mental disorders, inducing Anger, treating you unfairly = DELIBERATELY – these are all weapons they deploy against you so as to create a Crisis, create more CONFLICT and force more CONTROL over you – total ENTRAPMENT.

    Why do you think they removed PROVOCATION as a DEFENCE – so CONFLICT between parents can FLOURISH unabated.

    https://frameblame.wordpress.com

  5. hornet says:

    MY wife just made comment as she was reading this report – we have signed up to all the Rights for Women and Child – but nothing for MEN.

    My wife also noted a charity fund raiser at the Wharehouse – seeking donations for women and children, but yet again nothing for MEN……

    Women have made this point to me – women have asked me why they do not have any trusts, charities and or protections for MEN???

    So MEN – there are GOOD WOMEN out there also asking after your rights…….and interests….women who CARE about their MEN.

  6. MurrayBacon says:

    It is curious that the Human Rights report doesn’t have a publisher’s page, with ISBN and date of publication.

    Fault-lines-Human-rights-in-New-Zealand

    As Hornet noted above, the report covers human rights only from a UN defined issues basis. Although it does mention disabilities, including mental health, these again are largely covered only from UN defined issues headings, not from a total population approach ie men are substantially ignored.

    Access to hospital services for physical health problems is also poorly covered. Again this is an area where in many cases, children’s developmental and health problems and men’s health problems are inadequately covered.

    I suspect that the released form of the report is incomplete and hasn’t yet passed review checks. An example of an incomplete sentence and incomplete information (see page 120):

    The response was that while until a few years ago there were approximately 600
    in aged care facilities, now only [?????] approximately were. While the New Zealand representatives had a
    sense of achievement in the reduced number, there was a rumble around the room that a more
    desirable outcome would be for younger disabled people to be able to choose where to live, rather
    than being ‘put’ somewhere.

    The whole report is focussed on “legal issues”, rather than quality of citizen’s lives approach. Sounds as though the issue is generating more easy paying work for legal worker$, rather than developing the quality of life of citizens and overstayers.

    Similarly, although children’s rights are ostensibly covered, it appears that these chapters are mother’s interests, masquerading or presented as children’s interests. As well as being intellectual dishonesty, it also reflects an ignorance of what children’s developmental interests actually are and what would need to be done to protect them! Of course, this criticism applies similarly to familycaught$. (The sex of all of the authors might be a warning of this propaganda tool being slipped in, supported by practically unlimited Government funding?)

    2/10 ?

  7. Allan says:

    I work in a school. I can tell you that the sign out procedure can be as swift as an hour, or ic can be extended to take a few days (perhaps even a week). It all comes down to how organised the particular child/family are at getting their end of the paperwork done and returning outstanding library books etc.

    It is however possible that he may have collected the sign out forms with an intention of processing them in a couple of weeks time right before the job starts (if it has not started already). I have also seen this done.

    Sorry that I can not nail it down more specifically for you. I am however on this board here and there and am happy to answer questions for people re schools as best as I can.

  8. exactchange says:

    In any dealings with IRD I recommend using their online secure mail system. Then there is a clear and permanent record of who said or asked what when. Even if telephoning, one can email afterwards to check that what was said on the phone is correct and confirmed. An IRD login is required, but anyone paying or receiving CS should IMO have a login anyway to keep an eye on what is assessed, received, paid.

    There is usually a delay in getting an email response so sometimes a phone call first is good.

    I have found IRD email responses pretty good, but no issue to follow up to clarify or ask more questions.

  9. midnighthauler says:

    Another issue I am dealing with is the ex wife’s partner who can not keep his sticky beak out of issues regarding our kids. I have been rung up at night and been abused, threatened and also that he would come down to my place of residence and cause me and my wife bodily harm.

    I can look after myself but as I work shift work and part of that is night shift I worry about my wife at home. I think his bark is worse than his bite and he likes to stretch his vocal cords and show off to my kids. They also are wary of him as he has an extremely volatile temper. I used to get on really well with ex until he showed up and then things changed dramatically.

  10. DJ Ward says:

    Get a protection order agianst him.

  11. joseph says:

    # DJ Ward can you do that?
    Can a protection order keep children safe even if they arent their own?
    If you can to what point does it serve if they are still present in the childrens lives
    or can this order move him away from the kids?
    What evidence do you need to get a protection order against a violent exs new partner?
    I mean I was completely locked out of any information concerning my child and never knew anything about sexual abuse by exs former partner. CYF just removed my child to foster care because she kept running away.Without my or any of my families knowledge.I was never informed and only found out through my sister investigating and finding out my daughter had been abused and was removed to foster care and get this later on the Sister of the Mother got interim custody The feed back from that decision is too gross to mention.
    IRD said Id have to pay for that decision because the Exs Sister had interim custody through that period..LOL
    Image there faces when I told them where to #@x% off too.I had no response from IRD through that period soon after as Id re challenge everything through court again. Alot of down time
    Only to have my child returned to the Mother….minus the Mothers sexually predator too a brand new location. new settings, new home to rent with all the trimmings new school and still SECRET from their Father,..JOB well done….next Father.
    As Ive said I have unfinished business and I well leave it at that.

  12. joseph says:

    p.s #Hornet
    I am very fortunate Ive had wonderful solid on going support from my Wife and My Sister before she passed away.They are without doubt my pillars and on going Heros
    They never stopped supporting my children or me through all the years of this sorry horrid ordeal.

  13. DJ Ward says:

    Section 4 (1a) of the domestic violence act.

    It wont protect the kids.

  14. hornet says:

    I trespassed both my ex and her new partner – who was always trying to provoke more conflict – violence……just like her……

    You will note with child support – they never if ever put anything in writing and recently a letter I did receive was a PRE – APPROVED letter – not even specific to my concerns – but it was the only letter the person I was dealing with was permitted to use to respond to me – so they have a system of checks in place to make sure they never open themselves up to being accountable………I told him ( hes not a bad person ) he might actually have to write a new letter to me which actually addresses directly my concerns……..Im still waiting for a reply……..months later…………that tells us something – a good honest system would not have to hide behind these tactics if it was true and honest with the people……..

  15. joseph says:

    # DJ Ward said
    “It wont protect the Kids”

    Gutted…such a short answer that explains alot.

    EVERYONE as well as the LAW needs to WAKE UP.

  16. julie says:

    I am sorry to hear this is happening to you.

    While I am grateful that you shared about the police. That’s interesting though I don’t know what to think about it. Perhaps it will discourage (some) men to talk about suicide.

    I came across a ‘Social Service Framework‘ and see it’s considered culturally sensitive for counsellors, social workers, etc to disclose confidentiality at the beginning of sessions being, “Under NCAZ code of ethics and policy ….. harming oneself or others requires confidentiality to be broken” – slide 7.

  17. joseph says:

    #17 julie

    It happened.
    Nothing on earth will change what happen nothing.
    Dealing with the impact and reducing damage can be like a wound that never heals
    Some suggest scratching at the surface or dig deeper”get in there and do the hard yards”
    unfortunately this can lead to more damage even more confusion even more issues.
    How far does one really want to go, really need to go or are encouraged with good intent to reach further.
    The only requirement is honesty and been true to ones self.
    Once again thank you to those that help others with important information
    and once again I hope all having a wonderful weekend keeping safe. πŸ™‚
    This should be the safety warning a timing alarm irrespective of professional assistance.
    To stop re evaluate, even cease to proceed, let it flow or let it go.
    As Humans we are guided all our lives, by our own self choice,events or by others
    Yet in my opinion the only successful way is self choice armed and cloaked with complete honesty brutal or otherwise.
    Events happen, Others while clearing a way can also created barriers or do immense damage with self inclusion
    Professional help are taught to listen, evaluate, recommend, and then re evaluate always evaluating including ones own position.
    Yet its been said true recovery is obtained by been selfish, selfless,outside the box looking in
    Gathering, while taking what you need.
    Life is full of impact statements..so many impact statements that change lives forever.
    impact statements married with humans can lead, confuse,destroy or heal.
    “the beautiful mind It happens”

    If you dont mind I will share an example of an impact statement.

    A teacher I innocently had a crush on shared the same love of art, she was a terrific artist. We both shared two things in common Art ability and love of history. My teacher was a huge fan of the American Indians their history their plight and so was I.She always shared how powerful how spiritual, wise and up lifting their culture was even their features, stance seemed regal, noble to her in everyway.
    One day I innocently mentioned “the America Indians are awesome arent they are just like the Maori ”
    well the impact statement that followed after was life changing..

    “The Maori, Ive never heard such rubbish in all my life, they are nothing like the Maori”
    pack your things away and get ready to leave.

    3 things happened
    1. I became a better artist
    2. I still love American Indians and
    3. I knew when to sack the teacher…lol

    I wish the world could spin backwards so we could undo all events, erase and start again.
    I hope your children are safe, safe in the knowledge they are loved. Safe knowing you are loved.
    I hope all have a wonderful weekend and stay safe..
    Kind regards.

  18. julie says:

    Hi Joseph, I read your words with interest.

    #Joseph 18

    I have had similar experiences to you. Thanks for sharing. πŸ™‚

    All I can think to say is, “Good on you for looking deeper and further”. Life is such a journey.

    I too have researched things and the American Indians are sharing information to open my eyes. Some Maori and mostly radicals have a lot of growing to do. “Fuck them” I say.

    Yes, be true to you. You sound like an awesome person. Well done with your, “Way of doing life”. I love it. πŸ™‚

  19. julie says:

    I think we’d be wise to remember Nelson Mandela. He said that the very people that should have cared simply became greedy themselves.

    I wish everyone learned history in a way where they saw all cultures had a few that took from the many. There’s no race that’s not suffered – a few gain the power, recognition and money while the most never get anything.

    I am starting to learn that even among the community this happens.

  20. midnighthauler says:

    My son has finally left school and what I know at moment is that he is possibly working for one of the greater councils around Auckland possibly or he is working for his mothers partner who is contracted to the councils. Now his business name is APAC Horticultural Solutions Ltd and my son has worked for him many times during school holidays paying minimal tax and getting undeclared cash. I would imagine that this is happening again (with a good accountant. So I am still left to pay full child support he is working a 40hr week plus. I have sent info to IRD and hoping he will be audited. I even know my daughter works for him in school holidays and gets undeclared cash. Where is the fairness for fathers, they are left to suffer and struggle. I rent with my wife as we couldn’t afford the repayments on house.

  21. Downunder says:

    The IRD plays the same game with ‘benefit recovery’ saying that if a person under 18 is only working 30 hours per week, the mother still qualifies for child support.

    A man and his money are easily parted.

  22. Man X Norton says:

    There was an attempt to get widespread resistance by fathers to the so-called ‘child support’ regime by refusing to pay. As usual, most of the ardent supporters chickened out and only a few followed through with the plan. The one or two who have managed to remain fugitives from the totalitarian IRD force have had to go to great lengths.

  23. Allan Harvey says:

    Re #23
    In becoming fugitives you also loos contact with your children. We need to work to reform Child Support and make it focused on supporting children and not on avoidance that is cutting our noses off to spit our own face.
    Kids have expenses and it is real privilege to be able to meet those expenses as well as being an obligation.

    For full disclosure my own children are now well past Child Support age but I have paid, and at times received, Child Support.

  24. Downunder says:

    You can pay child support and still loose contact with your children.

    You can become a financial fugitive and still have a relationship with your children.

    Paying child support is not necessarily in the best interest of your children.

    Child Support can be used as a weapon to satisfy the insidious personalities that exist in this game.

    It’s been a long time NOT fixing broken law and a corrupt Family Court to have that sort of benign faith in the righteousness of society Allan Harvey.

  25. Downunder says:

    If you think you’ve heard grumbling so far, wait until the bulk of the child support debtors are over 65 and the IRD starts ripping into the pension to pay for the fat arses that infest the State.

    The only ones laughing then will be the ones who did piss of overseas.

  26. shafted says:

    Ok. Help please. I have just been advised by my employer that I am to have my salary increased by 15 percent. I’ve been further advised that I am to receive a bonus of approximately 10 k. Am I obliged to inform the ird of the increased income? If I do well my Child Support immediately go up ?if I don’t, will I be stung with a massive bill at the end of the financial year Advice would be greatly appreciated. It seems like everytime I think I am getting my head above water I am knocked on the head again

  27. Non custodial dad says:

    Shafted. #27
    IRD website should say what %increase in taxable income requires you to tell them. I think 15% is the norm, but it has been a little while since I last read anything related to that. It is imperative you tell IRD straight away to get your payments reviewed. If you don’t you WILL get penalties and interest added at the end of the tax year when IRD collate your wage/salary information based on Employer Monthly Schedules. While the increase in CS will be a bummer it has to be paid and it is inadvisable to get into arrears you might never get out of!

  28. Allan Harvey says:

    Hi Shafted and Non Custodial Dad.
    Your increase in income need not effect this years Child Support liability. The only time the scenario outlined by Non-Custodial Dad applies is when you have estimated your income and if that is the case then you do need to do a pretty accurate re-estimation in March 2016 of next year before the end of the tax year. Unless you already have an estimation made for this tax year say nothing, save the money and benefit from the use of interest on it, or the reduction in your mortgage until the CS liability is due later.
    If you are a normal PAYE taxpayer your win falls in income this year become liable for CS next tax year from 1 April to 31 March 2017.
    If you are an IR3 tax filer they become liable in the following tax year 1 April to 31 March 2018.
    This is not the place to discuss personal tax affairs. Send an e-mail and chat privately is better for taxation matters.

  29. Downunder says:

    I suppose they teach boys about this child support stuff in sex education these days?

    They probably have an App for it – like the one they have to remind a girl when her period is due.

  30. shafted says:

    Thanks all for your replies. Point noted Allan.

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