2nd Meeting with Chief Human Rights Commissioner
FYI, our media release:
MINISTRY OF MEN’S AFFAIRS
MINITATANGA MO NGA TANE
A Community Group because successive governments have neglected the voice and welfare of New Zealand men
Human Rights Commission Agrees Men’s Rights are Important Too
Chief Human Rights Commissioner David Rutherford has emphasized that human rights for males are as important as those for women and other groups.
A meeting in December 2015 between Mr Rutherford and representatives of NZ men’s groups and services identified areas in which men’s human rights have been neglected in NZ. The meeting recognized that in the drive to improve rights for women and other groups traditionally seen as disadvantaged, men’s welfare has been forgotten.
At a follow-up meeting in February 2016 plans were considered to include men’s issues in future reports to the UN about New Zealand’s human rights record.
Spokesman for one of the groups involved, Hans Laven from community group the Ministry of Men’s Affairs (MoMA) described the meetings as ‘historic’.
‘It’s reassuring that our HRC through Mr Rutherford has acknowledged that men and boys are in trouble as shown by high suicide and imprisonment rates, and that gender equity is as much a human right for men as for women’ Mr Laven said.
Other men’s issues seen as needing attention included gender inequality in sentencing and treatment under our justice system and family court, gender-specific laws that disadvantage men, the provision of refuge and other support services for men, and the need to evaluate new laws for their impact on men’s rights and welfare as much as women’s.
Another men’s representative who attended, Craig Jackson, said that NZ has an opportunity to once again lead the world in addressing a neglected area of human rights for half the nation’s population, just as it did a century ago regarding women’s suffrage.
Dont hold your breath boys, I think it’s too late. Rutherford will be paying you lip service and will too scarrd of being labeled a mysoginist if he speaks up for me.
HRC told me “We don’t consider complaints for human rights abuses that occurred more than twelve months ago”
UNHCR told me “You do not come under our jurisdiction” (which wasn’t surprising considering that they were party to the human rights abuses themselves).
If you need to go to the Family Court to see your children or have meaningful access, Do Not Bother.
This is the conclusion I have arrived at. The court has always done a great job of assisting people to avoid hearings, let’s face it and give credit where it is due. Counselling services, judge lead mediation and now something else with a different name. The tools are there and have been there.
If yu need to progress to a hearing from there don’t bother as the reality is that the directions will most likely not work.
Breach of Parenting Order By The Mother
Do the court actually care, or do anything about this? In my experience no, not at all.
You can go to the police, what do they do? Well we know don’t we. How about we don’t get involved you might want to talk to you lawyer. Heard that before? Of course every one on this site has.
What next ?
Complain to who? Someone who cares. Who is that then?
Apply For An Order To Enforce The Order
What the fuck is that?
I remember walking around dumbfounded after I heard that for the first time, I had to repeat it several times to try to understand it and each time afterwards, what the fuck is that?
When you explain this process to the lay person (man or woman) they are shocked, I explained this to a woman the other day, a grandmother whos son is having a terrible time and who hasn’t seen her grand daughter for ages. She couldn’t believe it, wouldn’t believe it, she will of course after $10,000.
The Fact is that if the mother is such a nut that she is prepared to have the child or children grow up with out you, with out a father then there is nothing you can do about it.
Design a System With Disfunctional Outcomes For the Child
Beyond agreement via mediation or counselling how could a system with more adverse outcomes be designed?
All of the children and fathers could be exterminated or tortured but if we are not prepared to do that, how could we design a worse system than what we have now? Any ideas?
This would be a system which does not recognise the best outcomes for the children.
This would be a system with no recourse for mothers.
This would be a system which gives false hope.
This would be costly.
This would be a system which ensures that children and the future will rely on courts, police, lawyers.
This would be a system that perpetuates cycles.
This would be a system which supports child abuse by the mothers new boyfriend.
This would be a system where counsel for the child fabricates evidence to ensure outcomes which are predetermined.
There you go, we have the best system already which is why it hasn’t really changed because no one actually wants it to change because if they did, it would have.
It’s a pity that I have had to go through the system to find out and I am a slow learner but for those of us who know, the best thing is to educate others, do not try to create change, it is not wanted and fathers remember if your input is not wanted by the mother , then ultimatly that is what will happen.
Yes, cynicism is understandable given the HRC’s history of exclusive focus on women’s rights and dismissal of men’s complaints about human rights. However, this is the first time as far as we know that the Chief Commissioner has shown any acknowledgement of men’s issues or shown any fair balance towards the genders.
It’s true that the most recent HRC report to the UN Review of Human Rights focuses overwhelmingly on the claimed gender pay gap and human rights problems for women, racial groups, homosexuals etc and disabled groups. There are a couple of references to men’s rights including the problem of huge male suicide rates, which is a step forward. However, David Rutherford has invited men’s groups to provide him with feedback about the HRC’s latest report that can be considered for future such reports. He has also provided us with a timetable of meetings and reporting dates for human rights matters over the next few years, and has encouraged men’s groups to prepare their own reports for future UN reviews. He provided us with such reports from two other groups as examples.
We are confident that David Rutherford is showing some fair and honest acknowledgment of men’s human rights issues and this is a significant step forward. We provided the above media release to him inviting comments or concerns about its content before we published, and no concerns came back.
Regarding criminal matters against the crown.
The hrc and many related bodies are designed to let you blow off steam and feel valued while you are being completely ignored, in case you hadn’t noticed. In fact human rights are ignored in the “him vs her” scenario by those who are currently in control. If you make a complaint do you realise who is responding to it? Official channels are a waste of time.
Ok, so nothing is worth doing then, and let’s all just patronize each other and discourage each others’ efforts. Or what other activities would people suggest? Or more importantly, what other activities are people actually doing?
Well done MOMA –
I have been absent here for some time, chipping away at the corruption of process and mendacity which has affected fathers and their rights to see their children – I empathise with all of what Paul has to say above – because I have been there and done that and see the harm and the damage this system has inflicted on CHILDREN and on good parents …….in the pursuit of revenue.
Parental Alienation is at the forefront of everything we raise concerns about – and parental Alienation needs to have consequences – criminal consequence to those who perpetuate this practice on Children and on parents………many who have read my posts will know I have detailed the severe psychological harm this caused my child = supported by two reports by the family courts who have to date refused to ever protect the child or place her care and welfare as the priority.
I have also directly experienced how parental alienation has harmed me as a parent and father – destroying my career and my earning ability – which child support deliberately ignore with impunity as they conduct administrative hearings against all your rights to due process and natural law ( I now have an admission of this for record ) – fairness and impartiality are non existent
Cherry picking evidence – a direct form of Confirmation Bias = which directly breaches natural law requirements to remain IMPARTIAL during a hearing – is also running rampant during admin review hearings – where opinion is accepted over fact and direct evidence……..Eg – I have two dependent biological children aged 7.5 years and 2.5 years – to my wife of 14 years and still to this day after all the complaints, reviews, hearings and discussion Child Support are still deliberately refusing to admit this fact on any report…….because it does not suit their agenda to make me look like a horrible uncaring parent and father…….
So well done again – MOMA each of us chipping away at corruption slowly exposes it……..I believe you will now see a ground swell of MENS RIGHTS being upheld – because the new system of debt creation no longer requires ONE GENDER to be persecuted and deliberately deprived of time with their children.
I ask anyone interested to support me in having Parental Alienation criminalised in NZ……..definition of this sickness as recorded below……..those who practice this and support it by refusing to act are parties to this concern………I have again asked the HRC and the Childs Commission to look at parental Alienation and support my proposal to have this Criminalised.
Parental alienation is the process, and the result, of the psychological manipulation of a child into showing unwarranted fear, disrespect or hostility towards a parent and/or other family members. It is a distinctive and widespread form of psychological abuse and family violence -towards both the child and the rejected family members-that occurs almost exclusively in association with family separation or divorce (particularly where legal action is involved) and that undermines core principles of both the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Most commonly, the primary cause is a parent wishing to exclude another parent from the life of their child, but other family members or friends, as well as professionals involved with the family (including psychologists, lawyers and judges), may contribute significantly to the process. It often leads to the long-term, or even permanent, estrangement of a child from one parent and other family members and, as a particularly adverse childhood experience, results in significantly increased risks of both mental and physical illness for children.
One other matter which must be published here ……
While trying to hold this system to account I have remained steadfast in my concerns and complaints and I have never wavered from what I know to be RIGHT.
For over 3.5 years now the Ombudsmans office has Refused, procrastinated and done everything imaginable to try and destroy my complaint.
There were attempts in 2014 to Entrap me on firearms offences, and also in 2015 more attempts to destroy my character, integrity, credibility and reputation directly by spreading lies about me and attempting to make false complaints to the police that I was not fit to own my firearms, that I was an ISIS supporter and that I was a white supremacist nut job. NONE of which is True.
After a protracted police investigation and thankfully I had evidence which destroyed the “complainants” credibility – and after having to undergo a psychological assessment – I was cleared of any concerns. When asked by the police – why would someone try and fit me up – I told the police – because I have complained about parental Alienation,the family courts and the child support systems and my reputation needs to be destroyed to discredit my complaints.
I am tabling this publicly to demonstrate the lengths that this corrupted system will go to, to try and destroy anyone who tries to hold them to account – with facts and evidence , speaks the truth or attempts to do what is RIGHT by their kids and their family.
Our family home was surveilled – we had women taking pictures of our property and asking our child questions about mum and dad and what we were up to. I identified a Ministry of Social Development vehicle following me from my lawyers as I was driving my wifes vehicle – this vehicle was registered to MSD Rotorua – the home of the Revenue minister at the time – my complaints to the ombudsman related directly to Revenue Debt creation and collection –
When I sought information about this – MSD denied that they even conduct surveillance – which is rather absurd given their own web site states that they DO CONDUCT Surveillance – and they recently initiated the installation of Surveillance cameras across Kaitaia…….so who is credible here…………
I have some positive news this month – the ombudsman tells us they are finally going to investigate ( ask questions ) about the unlawful search and seizure of property from our home – using ex parte, under urgency not notified warrants obtained using information garnered at admin review which was taken against all rights to due process fairness and natural law. We wait and see if that will actually result in anything positive……
in the meantime, love your kids and never ever give up on them.
Frightening stuff hornet. Yes, let’s keep on chipping away. Unfortunately, we know who the Chief Ombudsman is now so don’t hold your breath for any sympathy for men and fathers from that department.
We agree with your idea of making parental alienation a child-abuse offence. Like most other child-abuse offences it would not be subject to the Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Act. It would have to be based on a parent’s behaviour and this will often be difficult to prove, but the way children are subjected to video evidential interviews for sexual abuse allegations could be used for parental alienation allegations, the initial information about which will usually come directly from the children.
I agree, the Entire system is stacked with only those who support the corruption and who are in agreement to drive the agenda…….so what is that agenda?
If you read the following book – the naked truth by James C Bowers Sc.D ( a revision of The Naked Communist by Cleon Skousen )
50 stated goals of those wishing to push COMMUNIST RULE on Western Society……you will be disturbed as I am at the number of items already achieved…….
Affecting Fathers and FAMILY directly is stated in Goal…..26.
Goal 26…..Present Homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as NORMAL natural and healthy.
Psychologists warned that because of the breakdown of CULTURAL values and the BREAKDOWN of FAMILY – ( ably assisted by easy no fault Divorce encouraging a parent to simply walk away – usually with a massive payout enticing the decision ) many young Children – ( a Girl in my case ) are left in a home without a FATHER…..these girls, craving to be loved by a man, are VULNERABLE to these advances.
NZ judge today suggests we need to reduce the age of consent – as she lets off males who had under age sex with girls…….
Remove a FATHER from a parents life – and you deliberately create a VULNERABLE child – and that only benefits a Govt wanting more control over that individual.
Any Goal that UNDERMINES the Traditional FAMILY is a victory for the COMMUNIST movement – and sadly this agenda is being pushed by both the left and the right in NZ.
Goal 3 Develop the illusion that total disarmament of the civilian population is a demonstration of moral strength – the UN small arms treaty calls for all civilian populations to be disarmed – no rights to self defence, no rights to own property, no rights to free speech, no rights to privacy, no rights at all – COMMUNISM. NZ firearms laws already state you no longer have the right to self defence and if you suggest you do, then you will deemed not fit and proper to own a gun – or as was attempted on me – try and paint you as a mental defective. See Goals 38 and 39
Goal 4 – permit FREE TRADE between all nations – Anatoly Golytsyn a russian defector said – Western Society would have communism forced on it under the guise of FREE TRADE – there is Nothing Free when all your production capability is moved off shore and you are solely reliant on those who control the supply – of food, resources, materials – all having to be imported …….this is exactly TPPA. Corporate Communist control over you.
Goal 11 – Promote the United nations as the only hope for mankind – that is the Communist control centre – we have a confirmed Socialist in there already. So why exactly did the UN practice invasions of NZ – South island and north island? Operating Katipo taking control of a city and its mayor?
Goal 17 – get control of schools – push socialist agenda
Goal 20 Infiltrate the press – thats a done deal in NZ …..there is no free press……
Goal 21 Gain control of key positions in television – control the web, more surveillance – get rid of good people like John Campbell who spoke the truth and who cared about people and issues.
Goal 22 – discredit culture – attack maori Culture which is heavily FAMILY based. Attack NZ Culture – Family and values.
Goal 24 Eliminate laws governing obscenity ……promiscuity
Goal 25 Break down cultural values and standards of morality – notice in the herald today the judge suggesting we need to change laws = age of consent – for when kids can have sex – this is being driven by our own justice system…….
Goal 27 Infiltrate religion – destroy religious values.
Goal 29 – Discredit Constitutions as old and outdated and out of touch = you know that documents that details all your rights – which communism will take away.
Goal 32 Support any Socialist movement to give centralised control over any part of a nations CULTURE – Education, Social Agencies, Welfare programs, mental health clinics etc
Goal 38 Transfer powers of arrest from police to social agencies – treat all behavioural problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can undermine or treat
Goal 39 Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental healthy laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
Goal 40 Discredit the family as an institution – encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
Goal 41 Emphasise the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents – attribute prejudices , mental blocks and retarding of children to the oppressive influence of parents.
Goal 42 – Encourage Violence and uprising – revolution to solve economic, political and social problems- which will then require more govt control and suppression.
Goal 43 – Flag change – destroy Colonial rule before any native population are ready for self government.
I hope you can all see the concerns I see here – this is the agenda and this is what is being pushed on NZ Society. This is WHY you as a FATHER have been deliberately deprived of time with your kids.
Notice they tried to destroy FAMILY FIRST last year – by taking away their funding…..fortunately Family First WON and survive for now……..
I can’t attest to the detailed plan, but having been DEEPLY involved in the left-wing in the 80s (Worker’s Communist League) I can attest to the plan and objective to take over the media and the ‘education’ system.Goal achieved. What we did not expect was the internet, :-. Mas media is becoming less and less effective everyday. Misleading and out-right dishonest attacks on Trump (and no I am not a Trump supporter and think he is the US version of Winston)have actually INCREASED his popularity, lol. His big mistake was listening to his political ‘advisors’ and backing down on females being punished for breaking the law just like men are. It is not his statements that will lose him votes, it is the fact that he has now been seen to play politics.
Perhaps re focus is the way to go?
We all have the same experiences, opinions and have come to the same conclusions.
We have all spent time highlighting, escalating, trying and moaning.
Perhaps Consider A Different Option And Ask This Question: Would you do it again, knowing what you know now?
I am not saying do it differently knowing what you know now, but would you go through it again?
We know nothing significant has changed, so would you recommend that someone else go through what you have?
I wouldnt, this has nothing to do with my love for my children either. I am talking about health, time, stress, focus, cost, loss of enjoyment and I have come to the conclusion that I would never go through it again.
Forget about men’s rights, it’s outcomes that we want.
When the wheels fall off any trolley they must eventually be put back on.
Perhaps boycott the system, openly avoid the family court, be vocal as to why.
Perhaps publish why – using your own experience.
If you believe it’s a waste of time, effort and doesn’t support outcomes for the children then say why.
I have recently told others about my experience via this process, they shake their heads and can’ t believe it. Directions with no evidence, counsel for the children getting their doctor to generate letters sent to him so that he can submit them to the court, surprise, surprise out of the blue look what arrived your honor, psychologist with three reports contracting each other – predetermined doctored outcomes, counsel for the children and counsel for the mother with a shared premises, with out notice applications granted with detrimental outcomes for the children, arrested with out reason (charges withdrawn) I hear you say, complain to the law society – good one, how about the Juducial conduct commissionar
Publish why it’s a waste
Submitted it early, follow up to previous post.
So there is a suggestion, never thought I would say it but, never again.
A friend of mine went through this well before me, His father said to him Son move on, you have lost them (his children) Murray told me this when I started. Murray didn’t believe his dad, thought it would be different for him, I though it would be different for me. Murray did nine years of Wellington to Pihatua every two weeks, he did every park, playground, beach, river, water hole and macdonalds you can think of. Determined to do his best for his children.
His kids are 24 and 22, bi products of their mother who don’ t talk to him now. His father was right, oh yea sure he gave them positive experiences and he can say he did the right thing, but that’s about it.
I have concluded that we – us fathers are not wanted, valued (in terms of meaningful care, not just cash, contact and to give mum a break)
We are told we are, but actions do speak louder than words.
It is our duty to do as Murray’ father did, to tell the innocent fathers coming through “do you realise what you could be in for, given these scenarios this is what is likely to happen”, are you prepared for that? Of course we have all heard the claptrap, every situation is different. What crap.
There are significant common threads in every situation.
I have seen the poor suckers (like me) lining up at the counter to be directed to affadavits, memorandums, submissions by some disinterested woman registrar waiting for her lunch. These guys try to get their heads around it, do the best for their kids, what a sad sight and stasticaly how does it all work out for them?
No one keeping a record down on the farm then?
What were the outcomes for the children over say 5 years – no one down on the farm keeping a record of that either?
Dad drift away did he? Why was that then? Any one interested? Anything to do with, kids not made available, threats from police or mummies new boyfriend or whatever, but dads gone.
Perhaps the best we can do is tell the new fathers, equip them to make informed decisions at the start, before they foolishly think it will be better for them on the basis that it’s the only decent humane thing to do.
The stupidity of making the same mistakes again and again is obvious.
Not monitoring outcomes then doing the same thing gives rise to blindly making the same mistakes and in many cases it’s not the judges, law or court but lawyers so we need to look to their governing bodies. Here we are again Law Society, Gutless Standards Committee, LCRO who is still dealing with complaints from 2012.
The police, Independent Police Complaints (lovely to see that independent word in there, makes us feel good)
The law society might consider calling themselves the Independent Law Society
The complaints process for psychologists ( the court now I believe – not a good look)
What a fuck up, take Murray’s fathers advise.