MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Cooperation Among Men?

Filed under: Gender Politics,Law & Courts — MurrayBacon @ 10:09 am Sun 7th January 2018

Occasionally I wonder if there might be some lack of unity among men in NZ, with respect to protecting their collective interests?
By querying that, I am not implying that men should “fight” against women as a total group. (We would lose if we tried, due to the large amount of fraternising with the enemy.)
I see it as working together might yield a much larger pie, not a zero sum game.
Anyway, the majority of NZers do work together, happily and successfully.
It is the fairly large minority, who have serious mental health problems, who are unable to cooperate and enjoy the best that nature can offer all of us. (Like myself, of course.) These same mental health problems impact onto children of separated parents. Despite the words of the Care of Children Act 2004, the management by familycaught$ often enhances these problems’ negative impacts onto children, to maximise legal worker’s paramount financial interests.
Of course The Family Mangle works so that it only takes one party to sustain a legal action through the caught$, or put more basically, only one party needs to have stability or at times mental health issues, to drag the other into that game. (Not even a zero sum game, but more like dead loss game.)
If men were to take longer than women took to get the women’s movement together, then men would have to be a bit stupid?
Especially as we have available on a plate, the methods that the women’s movement used, to bring women together and create mutual understanding.
Consciousness Raising from Wikipedia
Reading that article, reinforces that our unity and mutual understanding have gone backwards, in the last 10 years.
In my opinion, we need to understand the problems that give us heartbreak and identify constructive options for solving them. These solutions must be sensibly attractive to women too, or they will remain unimplemented ideas.
Some of the suggestions that have been made about child custody dispute management by the men’s movement, are now being tidily documented in textbooks, by respected UK and USA academics. With driving these ideas through familycaught$, maybe fathers could actually act to protect our children? Constructive change might be in the wind? doG, I hope so!
So, I suggest less infighting and more mutual discussion and support of initiatives.

4 Responses to “Cooperation Among Men?”

  1. realkiwi says:

    yes murray,
    a review of the achievements in collaboration by NZ Mens/dads support groups would take 5min. and have 3 pages.
    a combination of reasons come to mind.. 1. lack of money
    2. lack of men with committee/board experience and ambition
    3. the struggle for national or public recognition and how that makes each group/leader strive for their own press/social media presence…
    4. that each of our groups has a leader with a mission to be the leader, working together diminishes their chance of fame and heroism for being the guy who fought back/won..
    5. the presence of a few seemingly angry/MH Issues dad who gets us all labelled angry..
    6. The absence of a stable woman spokeperson to get some of our points across nicely.

    I’m keen to see this discussion evolve into what has been done that worked, what no, what next…??

  2. Bevan Berg says:

    #1 It would appear you haven’t come across these things called Feministso.

    They have different ideas, and hold the opinion that since you won’t be here, what you think doesn’t matter.

    Some of them do have a plan beyond self entitlement.

  3. allan harvey says:

    I wonder if item 4 on realkiwi’s list isn’t of more significance.
    I am not convinced money has much to do with lack of traction.
    If we are committed we give time, and resources.
    Supporting the work of others, encouraging others, befriending is key.

    I am not quite sure what Bevan is saying with feministo.
    Many more women are supportive of our work than oppose us.
    We get support, encouragement and referrals from many women’s groups (including refuge).
    If he is referring to the white knight/ribbon lobby maybe they are an impediment but most can be encouraged to see wider perspectives even if they still choose to focus on just part of the picture. Those who “have different ideas” and are not open to dialogue we can just ignore.

    Those groups who have been more successful know that it takes a lot of work, often lonely work.

  4. Downunder says:

    not convinced money has a lot to do with lack of traction


    The period of success that Union of Fathers did enjoy was due to the spend achieved by its main backers and membership. If one person had fully financed that period of activity it would have been a multi-million dollar undertaking.

    It was not charitably funded other than by a few people in the leadership.

    In the end UOF was destroyed by the a few people in the background who were motivated by the possibility of turning the organisation’s affairs into their own financial gain.

    Outside of that, there was a conspiracy to financially disable or intimidate those members who had the capacity to drive anything else forward.

    The remnants, who generally lacked any degree of financial wellbeing (struggling to make ends meet and little spare time) found that without the structure that had previously existed in UOF they could do little more than protest outside judges houses.

    The PC organisations, (or individuals) which as I see above still can’t acknowledge their own judgmental arogance have a codependency with the state in terms of funding and image.

    Might have gone a little over the 5 mins, but at least we saved two sheets of paper.

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