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Ways Forward

Filed under: General — Downunder @ 11:47 am Sat 6th October 2018

If you’ve been thinking why don’t we just do that or why hasn’t someone done this?

This post is for you.

The Feminist agenda affects individuals in so many different ways and individuals see it from many different points of view. Often that is the argument, you’re not seeing it from where I sit or how it has affected this group of people.

What do you do about it, that is always the big question?

30 Comments »

  1. Thanks man.

    In the frustration at finding out how badly a man can be treated when embroiled in a shitty separation, I took advantage of our little country.

    I made submissions to the recent reviewing of the domestic violence and family court.
    I contacted two of the people who are on the review panel via email.
    I have emailed and talked to anti feminist people, Family First, Mens’ groups/charities and Don Brash(moral support).

    The only group or person that did not reply to me was one mens group.
    Although this gets one person not much of anywhere it did instill some belief and hope, for me personally , to know people in high places take the time to talk to one person of such issues of concern.

    How to make a difference is difficult though.

    What I do not see or hear is a mens group out there outwardly talking to the media and the people of NZ of Mens’ Concerns.

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 2:08 pm

  2. I don’t want to respond to that and start a trend, I’d rather it was just comments of ideas, but if you go to the search box and type in ‘media’ that will give some bedtime reading.

    Comment by Downunder — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 2:53 pm

  3. Find the right strategy
    Find the right voice.

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 9:54 pm

  4. There are probably some interesting lessons we could take from Intersectional Feminism as it appears to be rather topical at the moment …

    Speaking from a critical standpoint, Collins points out that Brittan and Maynard say “domination always involves the objectification of the dominated; all forms of oppression imply the devaluation of the subjectivity of the oppressed.”[33]:S18 She later notes that self-valuation and self-definition are two ways of resisting oppression. Practicing self-awareness helps to preserve the self-esteem of the group that is being oppressed and allow them to avoid any dehumanizing outside influences.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 11:54 am

  5. Thanks for the quote Downunder. Where did it come from? In my opinion that quote is complete and utter bunkum and highly dangerous to boot. The “devaluation of subjectivity” is of critical importance for any society concerned about human rights, the rule of law, and due process that follows the rules of natural justice. The elevation of subjectivity allowed lynch mobs to hang innocent people from trees. Currently mobs of man-hating female chauvinists are lynching innocent men. And, I make no apology for using the highly provocative term “lynching.”

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:30 pm

  6. We are all on the same page are we not?

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:46 pm

  7. Under Intersectional Feminism on Wikipedia.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:48 pm

  8. @1 – your post at 1 shows why men are dumb.
    They would rather miss the bus to fight in peace.
    Than climb on it and make peace for all.

    Of all the people on this site, you may have been the only one making submissions.

    I wonder when was the last century either MoMA, Audi or DownBlunder did something of the sort – do straight to the horses’s mouth? (writing to newspaper that do no publish your letters does not count.)

    Or whom else did?

    Lol takes a woman to run a MENZ site,

    Maybe we need a woman or feminist figure head to lead the men back into an equal society???

    Comment by JustCurious — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 6:56 pm

  9. JC,,do not throw me up,, thank you for that though,, I have enjoyed the digging but especially some of the amazing replies.

    I am though in awe of the many years of research, care and hard yards for issues that MOMA and Downunder have put in. I do not know the history of this but I gather that I am right in saying this. Apparantley Audi has done some considerable time as well.

    I appreciate Men folk in general and am always amazed at how guys such up knowledge and make it their own, this is also the reason why I believe Women are off their rockers to consider they can just breeze on in and as Helen Clark says, be at the top of more tables, these places must be earned. I am also aware that there are many clever women at the top of their games that most certainly deserve to be at top of tables as long as it is earned.

    I was recently reading about Derek Handley and his work Fellows, he has young people work for him part time on issues and projects you would never think young people would have the thinking to juggle and research ideas toward, these youths are in school or just out of school, most that I saw were girls, so amazing scope is there for women to proceed where they may.

    I doubt that they will be swept up by the recent hysteria, I have hope for the next generation as long as they are taught balance is everything.

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:17 pm

  10. @8 Thanks JustCurious for holding me to account. I plead guilty as charged. For my sins I hope to make amends by playing a small part in bringing together a group that will miss no opportunity in making submissions to all manner of individuals, and organisations to the end of alleviating men’s suffering.

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:22 pm

  11. @5- subjectivity or way forward?

    She later notes that self-valuation and self-definition are two ways of resisting oppression. Practicing self-awareness helps to preserve the self-esteem of the group that is being oppressed and allow them to avoid any dehumanizing outside influences.

    When a wise man points at the moon, an idiot looks at his finger.

    Apparently, this saying has a double meaning…. according to mindtimeshare.me…

    This proverb, usually attributed to Confucius, contains a double meaning. It warns the inquiring to expect to be personally attacked for their observations and thoughts, but it also warns critics against substituting ad hominem attacks on people for criticism of their ideas.

    Comment by JustCurious — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:37 pm

  12. Just having fun and noticing inconsistencies in postures and in words.
    Nothing personal. We each have a part to play.
    Being ab;e to laugh at one self is key. and each other with their approval is key.

    Comment by JustCurious — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:43 pm

  13. No offense intended to anyone.
    And mama not throwing you up, just appreciative and a bit of trolling (guys vs girls).
    Can we get our shit together as a group?

    Comment by JustCurious — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:50 pm

  14. 13,,I think so, surely, I hope so, HELL yes!

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:55 pm

  15. how about..PRO MAN

    Comment by mama — Mon 8th October 2018 @ 12:03 pm

  16. Maybe they have done it in the past, but if all the Mens’ Groups “group” together that could be something to organise, not only sooner than anything a New group could do (gets voice out there), but with a united front it may bring attention to the media/public.

    Let the existing Mens’ groups put their money where their mouths are.
    Lets’s organize an event for them or at least insist they do.

    Comment by mama — Mon 8th October 2018 @ 2:57 pm

  17. 9,,and Evan Myers

    I am though in awe of the many years of research, care and hard yards for issues that MOMA and Downunder have put in. I do not know the history of this but I gather that I am right in saying this. Apparantley Audi has done some considerable time as wel

    Comment by mama — Mon 8th October 2018 @ 3:05 pm

  18. Call out to all MENS’ GROUPS to….

    ‘PICK UP THE SHOE AND PUT IT ON THE OTHER FOOT’

    This idiom shows that changing positions can be uncomfortable, both with shoes and other situations. For example, imagine that you had a powerful position and refused to help someone in a less powerful position. A year later, that person has a more powerful position than you, and you need that person’s help. You would likely feel uncomfortable asking for assistance.

    Comment by mama — Mon 8th October 2018 @ 3:41 pm

  19. Nothing like a little research for any one who needs more informational reading on good ol’ NZ.

    https://www.nzcpr.com/newsletter/

    Comment by mama — Wed 10th October 2018 @ 2:19 pm

  20. We need this…

    http://www.womenscentrerodney.org.nz/links.aspx

    Comment by mama — Thu 11th October 2018 @ 11:02 am

  21. The problem may be in the bottom line …

    United Nations Development Fund for Women
    UNIFEM is the women’s fund at the United Nations. It provides financial and technical assistance to innovative programmes and strategies to foster women’s empowerment and gender equality.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Thu 11th October 2018 @ 11:12 am

  22. So where is the UNIMEN??,, you’re a great spy Evan.

    Comment by mama — Thu 11th October 2018 @ 1:44 pm

  23. Hi Everyone or Anyone… This is a lovely idea and if anyone has the time they are in need of BIG BUDDYS.

    https://www.bigbuddy.org.nz/2018/09/05/from-teaching-mens-anger-management-to-finding-mentors-for-boys/

    Comment by mama — Thu 11th October 2018 @ 8:05 pm

  24. Looking at the Law Commission staffing;

    3 Female Commissioners

    Of the 18 staff, 3 are male one of whom is the IT guy.

    That’s balance for you.

    Anyone in Wellington got time to protest for equal rights outside the Law Commission?

    Comment by Downunder — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 9:56 am

  25. mama@23: No it’s not a lovely idea and we don’t support the scheme. We asked questions of Big Buddy about what steps they take to ensure that they are not displacing actual fathers who want to be involved with their children but have been prevented from doing so by the mothers or CYFS. The organization would not clarify this beyond hollow platitudes. Given that, we believe the Big Buddy operation represents a threat to real fathers and is likely to be colluding whether intentionally or unintentionally with anti-father processes.

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 12:17 pm

  26. Downunder @24: Thanks for finding that out. The Law Commission has long been a powerful force against men and against real gender equality.

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 12:20 pm

  27. 25,, MOMA,, That stinks… I thought getting Men into the lives of boys was a great idea, and I have seen that work benefit a young fellow whose father was not in his life, but having said this , the father was only absent in his life due to the prickly nature of the mother…like is often said here , everyone loses.

    I must admit I had not thought of it from the fathers point of view, this would be a good area to work for some change though, break through and get fathers involved through the likes of big buddy, would be better time spent than the option of any ‘supervised ‘ place or time.

    Comment by mama — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 3:04 pm

  28. The question here is the motive of the mother, and I can speak from experience, when during the Family Court proceedings, she enrolled the youngest children in Big Buddy because they didn’t have a father.

    It appears that Big Buddy chose to discontinue that association.

    Comment by Downunder — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 3:14 pm

  29. @24 Downunder says:

    “Looking at the Law Commission staffing;
    3 Female Commissioners
    Of the 18 staff, 3 are male one of whom is the IT guy.
    That’s balance for you.
    Anyone in Wellington got time to protest for equal rights outside the Law Commission?”

    Great idea Downunder (not)… and while you are down there let’s also have a protest outside the offices of some of New Zealand’s largest listed companies for not having enough women on their boards.

    In my (clearly humble) opinion I couldn’t give a rat’s arse how many women are on the Law Commission or how many men are on Boards. What I care about is what they do. Some Law Commission Reports are incredibly sexist – that’s what should be protested. Same with the boards of private enterprises. Protest about what they do (if they do something wrong) but spare me protests about what’s in their underpants, or what they do with what’s in their underpants with consenting adults in private.

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sat 10th November 2018 @ 6:41 pm

  30. I have not brought myself to look yet…the findings

    http://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector-policy/key-initiatives/family-court-rewrite/.

    Comment by mama — Mon 17th June 2019 @ 2:42 pm

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