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Order and Law…. an education, a discussion into….

Filed under: General — mama @ 2:10 pm Wed 12th June 2019

Society of course needs Order,
Society of course needs Law,
but regardless of whether you are Rich,
or you are Poor.

Laws were Set,
Courts to see that they are Met,
but Courts without justice for all,
will surely be in blatant disregard,
of our Law.

What of
the citizens,
who do not know these Laws,
held in contempt for not following rules,
rules of which they were not made aware,
but yet there they are for those to see,
those that choose or think to stare,
but for the citizens who were blind,
or who did not care,
they should then worry,
for it is a hard cold world out there.

Law Awareness, I must rave on, IS A THING,,, Legal Literacy if you like, look it up and discover, ask your son if he knows the laws that might affect him, the Law is updated and is weaving social media into itself, add to this new definitions, even open definitions? of abuse and harassment which includes words, where and in front of whom you may have used those words, a veritable minefield in just one dispute/argument..until you know these laws do not disagree with a woman?

I think it is kinda weird that laws made for a nations Citizens’ are not being brought to the attention of those Citizen’s.
Where do we learn these laws, often we learn them on the hop, the hot coals of a brush with Police or the courts, this is no way to treat the citizens of a modern country that prides itself in human rights or civil rights.

Unjust, you bet.

29 Responses to “Order and Law…. an education, a discussion into….”

  1. mama says:

    Hey did everyone know about the Therapeutic Court,, I sure did not.

    https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/criminal/therapeutic-courts/

  2. JustCurious says:

    The questions you ask in your post show how far away the goal post have been moved.
    They are all essential.

    Ignorance of the law is no defense

    Whose prime responsibility is it to educate the nation and understand or overstand the rules of engagement with the state?

    In order to bypass that and give notice they simply publish their bullshit in the gazette.
    IF you are concerned, you got a set number of business days to reply…
    Otherwise your silence is a sign for a tacit and implied consent.

    So technically they have done their job.
    Whether the law or act is just and fair will only be known when it is tested.
    Or challenged before it receives royal ascent.
    Since they want our silence… they simply put it where only a few would see it.

    Case in point : Interpretation Act 1999

    “A person includes a corporation sole, a body corporate, and an unincorporated body.”

    Recalling a maxim of law β€œExpressio unius est exclusio alterius.A maxim of statutory interpretation meaning that the expression of one thing is the exclusion of another. Mention of one thing implies exclusion of another.When certain persons or things are specified in a law, contract, or will, an intention to exclude all others from its operation may be inferred. Under this maxim, if statute specifies one exception to a general rule or assumes to specify the effects of a certain provision, other exceptions or effects are excluded.”

    If;
    Am I not a corporation sole;
    Am I not a body corporate; and
    Am I not an incorporated body; then
    Am I a person according to the interpretation Act?

    And how many laws use that same interpretation?

  3. Boonie says:

    @2
    The meaning of an enactment must be ascertained from its text and in the light of its purpose.

  4. JustCurious says:

    #2 That is why most people cannot reconcile the terms of engagement and the purpose of the Enactment. And when we speak of enactment we must also know what we mean.
    Two rules – no law can be interpreted contrary to our bills or rights.
    If any law is in breach/conflict/disparities of/with the Bills of rights then the Bill of rights must prevail.

  5. Boonie says:

    #4

    That’s the difference between codified and code.

    A law can be passed contrary to the Bill of Rights.

    The Attorney-General supposedly points this out to parliament in advice regarding each bill.

    To be interpreted that way requires a court judgment.

    You must at least be aware by now, that court action if not stopped by agression towards the individual it is stopped by agression with the law society or from judges themselves.

  6. Boonie says:

    *within the Law Society.

  7. Evan Myers says:

    This is the update from the OT case.

    The agency wanted the court to make Newsroom – and Stuff.co.nz which also published the documentary – remove details from the story but Judge Max Courtney said it wasn’t for him to rule on – either the law had been breached or it hadn’t and if so Oranga Tamariki could report Newsroom to the police

    Look at the processes and legal pathways being used here.

    Put the emotive issue aside and look at the function of the system.

  8. JustCurious says:

    @5 I do not post for my own edification:-)

  9. JustCurious says:

    #6
    Sensible post Ewan…
    But fighting injustice within the system
    When the dices are so set that the bank must always win
    Must make Sisyphus punishment from the gods look like childplay

    Change the laws first and then we all have a chance.

  10. Evan Myers says:

    And I don’t post to be my own audience πŸ™‚

  11. mama says:

    ,, but we do need to educate our young Men about the law, maybe relationships laws should be being taught around sex education…

  12. JustCurious says:

    The fundamental lesson is 1st your human right bills
    The second should be about our legal identity
    ~and what contract we have with the state?

    Third ~ and foremost about personal finances
    ~and management of our “public” finances by the state

    Fourth ~ A thorough understanding (for a future reformation) of our laws
    ~and how we can participate in making them
    ~and how we can participate in changing them…

    By the age of 11 years old,
    every child should know his role as a “citizen”

    By the age of 18
    He/she should know where he wants to contribute in the “system”

    By the age of 21
    He/she should be ready to “serve/paricipate” for 3 years (minimal pay) for his/her country.

    Our education system lacks (to my knowledge) the most essential [survival/information/formation/knowledge/aptitude] required for any reciprocal relationship with the state.

  13. JustCurious says:

    I think no one bothered to give us a copy of our social contract.

    They have codified our behaviour and actions and simply have relabeled them as offences, or crimes
    with appropriate punishments…

    Instead; they could have “proposed behaviour” and “appropriate education” for the betterment of the indiidual in society and for safer communities.

    It appears these laws serve only to destroy the Family and divide the population into gender groupuscules.And give access to the haeart of every family

    The feminist politic worked.
    “Female were victims and males, the abusers.”
    Laws were erected as invisible walls to protect the females.
    Now these laws are weapons of mass social disruption.
    Males and children are the targets and victims of these laws.

    The child politic worked.
    Following on the above feminist rethoric;
    cries of “Protect women and children from violence” erupted.”
    When it was passed at the UN, NZ simply ratified it
    and drew more laws destabilizing the family

    -CYPF ACT – Care of Children Act – Domestic Violence Act.
    Yay… nice words…!

    All these Acts, in their application,
    were implemented contrary to their purpose.
    And rather than reducing violence and achieving their stated aims.
    They are now the source of most injustice and harm targeted
    at males and children and the family unit.

    Whilst some of us are posting drivel at feminists
    and their conspiracies theories about the cause o
    f the collapse of the system – the third phase of mass social division
    is afoot ~ empowering “new gender” identities and making
    laws protecting their so called imagined “differences.”

    The picture I see is the picture of the state as mother.
    Even our biological needs are being thwarted.

  14. mama says:

    #12,,, Just Curious,,, I like it,, what seems like common sense seems to be out the window, thrown out the window, freedom is being taught to be something all together different.

  15. JustCurious says:

    My observation entirely 14#mama

    “In The Social Contract (1762) Rousseau argues that laws are binding only when they are supported by the general will of the people. His famous idea, ‘man is born free, but he is everywhere in chains’ challenged the traditional order of society.”

    This argument still holds

    “What was the purpose of the social contract by Rousseau?
    The Social Contract helped inspire political reforms or revolutions in Europe, especially in France. The Social Contract argued against the idea that monarchs were divinely empowered to legislate. Rousseau asserts that only the people, who are sovereign, have that all-powerful right.”

    This is where many a person fail to see the true picture. If Man is made by God (whether you beleive it or not. we all know man is not made by man.) SO the higher authority to credit for man’s existence or any form of sentient xistence n earth is to be credited back to God.

    If man erects laws, those laws cannot take force unless agreed, consented and entered into by other men. All legislations are made by men and therefore inferior to men.

    However with the democratic system , It is quite easy to make/impose a law even unfavourable to the majority of the population by swinging certain seats around up at the beehive and getting a vote to say that the population has agreed whereby that population has simply delegated their right to vote to a certain individual.

    So essentially, the social contrat helped paved the way from monarchy to democracy.
    But through demodiocracy, we have arrived again to monarchic dictatorship.

    And what is worse is that our entire system is based on a revenue collecting industry.
    All the state agencies have turned into colllection revenue services (commissionners)
    And revenue collectors agents (even police when they give you fine – and which is contrary to their oath and purpose).

    So if the social contract break down and the economic situation turns the state into a cancer seeking only ways to draw revenues from its population without providing a natural and strong economic environment… then the current predicament we find ourselves in is only normal and the fruit of a hundred years of “legal” tweaking here and there to return to absolute monarchy whereby all the democratic institutions are used solely for the survival of the state. Over the benefit of the population.

    If the post #12 was implemented, this state or government would never be signatory to any resolution at the UN without first having a referendum and the population deciding whether we want to be a part of it and if we do how do we wish to undertake it.

    Fundamentally, the problem has always been the blind leading the blind and the law society in between collecting (advising about laws changes) and clipping tickets (not complaining that the law is unlawful) all the ways to the bank and the banks used to kidnap and ransom the population and the state.(FIAT MONEY SYSTEM – ignorance of the law from members of parliament obeying to lobbies and a justice system unable or incapable or unwilling to act according to natural justice)… What we get is a conspiracy against the population.

  16. JustCurious says:

    The current systems we have in place are simply band-aid put on the wrong way.

    They put grease on the sticky part itself and every time it falls off, they open a new band-aid.
    Rather than focusing on the purpose of the band-aid which is to keep pathogens and infections at bay to give time for the wound to heal. Their only focus is to make as many band-aids as possible to cover the entire nation.

    At the end of the year they tally the grease used and the band aids used and if there is an increase, they cry success. The population is healing.

    Example in case the latest news I heard of a5 year old being pulled out of his mother’s care because she failed to return the child to her dad whom had care.

    The police apparently stepped in and removed the child whilst she was being stuck in bed.

    They are legally entitled to do so. However what is best for that child?

    Have a good night sleep, go to school the next day.
    Get the mother temporarily in custody without the child knowing (which is extreme),
    arrange for the father to collect the child from school as if nothing ever happened (which is best)/ Shield that child from any drama or trauma and allow her to transit from one parent’s care into the other’s without ever knowing of the drama surrounding her care and custody?

    Or is it better to create trauma on that child, uplifting her at the most crucial time in her day, whilst mother is fighting and screaming and cops are crawling all over the scene… What kind of trauma are those people creating for that child?

    And yet, when with a little common sense, that child may never have had such a horrific police intervention in her life… IS that child ever going to go to sleep at her mother’s anymore expecting that the cops may turn up at any time?

  17. mama says:

    ####,15, 16,,,, Well Judge, today I feel hope for the kind of shift you talk of, no more greased band aid,,, there is a feel in the air that the problems are coming from lack of care for the FAMILY,, maybe Men should stand by this as no one gets to feel this as much as the Men that have been turned away from their own families and aparantly in the best interest of their own children? The question,,how is this working out for society? The fact that Lawyers take part in the family court at all is absolutely ,,I can’t find the word.

  18. JustCurious says:

    @17 ~ I do like your original post as it really brings the point forth.
    Our we properly educated in our rights in order to take a citizen stand?
    Are we properly educated and trained to participate in the social construct?
    Are we properly educated to manage our own affairs and business and to overseas
    our government as trustee or our common wealth?

    I believe their is always hope with education.

    Our job is to continue on our learning and to share what we learn.
    Maybe not in our time but somehow, someway, someday this all will be common sense again.
    It all starts with education – Education is imitation – Family is the home of education – and the parents the pillars of that school.

    However we still confuse education with teaching, teaching with pedagogy, pedagogy with brainwashing, brainwashing with programming – programming with intellectual development….

  19. Boonie says:

    Whose prime responsibility is it to educate the nation and understand or overstand the rules of engagement with the state?

    (That’s taken from the beginning of this argument)

    In between is a suggested philosophical understanding.

    We conclude:

    It all starts with education

    Education is imitation.

    Commonsense could be dictated by a common understanding. It could equally be dictated by a load of rubbish.

  20. JustCurious says:

    Good job #Boonie above. πŸ™‚ Logic can be a trap…
    Lack of common sense derives from following the lack of individual understanding of the construct.

    Respect – consultancy – mutual support – transcendance of human needs/requirement and pre-requisites on moral, ethical and economic development at the political level – good will and transparency with the paramount consideration being the best interest and welfare of this nation are in short the prime tenets of this social contract.

    However

    If you dumben down the parents enough that school and learning is the prime responsibility of the school system.

    Then the end result is
    ~lawmakers too dumb to understand their prime responsibility to the nation as a whole –
    ~Jugdes happy to get a slice of irresponsibility and masturbating over the head of common citizen and arrogantly calling it rain –
    ~cops playing judge=jury and executioners usurping the role of the judiciary without accountability.
    ~Lawyers licking pus from the grangenous sore ad nauseatum

    And a community to busy in trench war between genders and soon to be created flavors of misgenders.
    And loaded with all the responsibility and liability incumbent on those with the authority.

  21. Downunder says:

    @20

    Good job #Boonie above. Logic can be a trap…
    Lack of common sense derives from following the lack of individual understanding of the construct.

    Which construct: The logical construct or the social construct?

  22. JustCurious says:

    Individual sense before common sense
    Accurate/valid/real/fully informed/full disclosure
    /proper consideration/considerate value
    Type assessment/evaluation individual logical
    construct regarding the social contract…

    Current situation re construct
    Apart from lawyers who dares say I know the law?
    Apart from a few of us forced to self rep
    Who dare say monsieur or madame judge?
    Apart from a few people in immunity seats
    Who dare stand his ground against police brutality?

  23. mama says:

    Yes we need to be bringing up whole people, but this takes whole family and whole community, we have moved away from this, what was this replaced with but a hole.

  24. justcurious says:

    you are a gem #mama
    When the debate is real and focused on real “things” of concern then all can contribute.
    But when it concerns only the wise, the fools with the best insights get ridiculed.

    it’s not about men and women in an intergalactic fight to wrestle rights or privileges status within the system. We forget we are BIOLOGICALLY complimentary for the benefit of aLL.
    It is simply about the family unit and the HARMONIOUS roles each and everyone can play within/without.

    Gosh am almost excited….

  25. mama says:

    Biological is the word, the word, the word,,,,,,you heard,, Judge Curious and the four seasons.
    Backing vocals, the mama’s and the papa’s.

  26. manchao li says:

    Hi guys,
    who knows how can I contact others victim who want get justice by help each other.
    cyrus

  27. Boonie says:

    Petition 2002/168 of Manchao Li,
    Kenneth Wang and 4,936 others

    Report of the Law and Order Committee

    The Law and Order Committee has considered Petition 2002/168 of Manchao Li,
    Kenneth Wang, and 4,936 others, which requests that criminal law be strengthened.
    We acknowledge the concerns expressed by the petitioners, and will proactively take these
    into consideration when exercising our role in scrutinising new legislation and those entities
    that operate within our subject area. We have no matters to bring to the attention of the
    House.

    Martin Gallagher
    Chairperson

  28. Boonie says:

    Why do we make the easiest things to do so hard. Is that our #kaupapa as a Nation? Like we enjoy a bit of punishment because we think we need to hurt ourselves because we’ve got such a wonderful country? Like that religous nut on the Davinci Code.

    Tau Henare does post here but his tweets are perhaps equally dissolutioned.

  29. Boonie says:

    At #28 should have read doesn’t.

    Martin Owen Gallagher JP is a New Zealand politician and was Labour member of Parliament representing the Hamilton West electorate until November 2008. Currently, he is councillor on the Hamilton City Council West Ward as well as Deputy Mayor of Hamilton.Β 

    A career labour politician in the Clark Ministry come hell or high water would never report to the house in the manner requested.

    This unfortunately, the select committee process, is now a point of failure in our political system because of its constant manipulation by political parties. The outcome of MMP for us has seen the parliamentary debating chamber become a comedy show and the select committee process a scrap between politicians at the expense of concerned citizens.

    I sympathize with people that come to realize this after they bothered to engage in the political process.

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