MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

The Division of Men

Filed under: General — Downunder @ 7:09 am Thu 23rd December 2021

This might be viewed and often is on this site as a division of men into various groups of men, be that religious, racial, intellectual, or some perception of right and wrong among other things … class or status is something we claim to have overcome but not so much when there are the cases we don’t hear about.

Over the preceding 50 years we’ve seen a transition from a predominantly sacred society to a more secular society and individual based rights rather than collective obligation.

This “law of the individual” is politically convenient when it comes to the game of divide and rule and the political mischief of the narrative.

I don’t recall a discussion here though of, division of the individual, in the sense of not able to be divided, which is the essential etymology of the word.

We tend to talk about an attack on us, as the male gender, our rights, our status as fathers, or our identities but not as a soul destroying exercise – the crushing of the individual spirit – which the family court is so apt to do – there’s a slow trail of bodies over many years that’s become very matter of fact rather than sentient.

I noticed this week the English court judgement on hate speech had warned of the perception of the individual being a step too far in determining the value of hate speech.

Rather than the preservation of free speech I saw that more as a defence of the integrity for the individual against claims of victim status – in that respect, the behaviour of our family court not allowed to wander lose on the streets with the enforcement left to the discretion of the police.

It’s quite a complex judgement beyond the summary and one we shouldn’t ignore when it comes to the inclination of our own feminised society to dwell as it usually does on the lowest denominator in preservation of its ideals.

We’re suffering under a similar weight of Covid demands where the dissection of the individual is secondary if not insignificant to the political demands of our administration.

It’s a step past democracy in that respect, far from love and kindness, and not so open and transparent with so many people being sucked into the pit of panic and deception.


  1. Hard slog without an independent media and the wait for the persecution of the 5th Estate.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Thu 23rd December 2021 @ 7:55 am

  2. The men in Jordan’s parliament, just had a punch up.
    While on a bill, creating more equality for women.
    The bill, accused of other things as well.
    So the fight may be, a coincidence.
    Not just to the bill, giving women some equality.

    Of what I’ve read, the bill is a reasonable change.
    It shows how sensitive, humans are to the subject.
    And how extreme things can get, like the Taliban.

    A blatant bias exists, against women.
    If a male takes a foreigner, as a wife.
    The wife and children, become citizens.
    If a female takes a foreigner, as a husband.
    The husband and children, do not become citizens.

    It is hard to see, how men became divided.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 1st January 2022 @ 8:32 am

  3. It is harder to see us together, than divided.
    Every issue or argument, with two sides.

    Since there is only one thing, that is true on any subject.
    How then do we become divided, taking sides on everything.
    Is it culture and morals, religion and biology creating sides.

    Anthropology would say, give things time.
    Things that are closer to the truth, will work well.
    Things that are farther from the truth, will not work well.

    Are not all the nations, just experiments for the greater good.
    There own quirky laws, governing the lives of humans.
    Even the nations at war, are divided into sides testing who’s better.

    One cannot blame humans, for being divided.
    Without it humans, cannot get better.
    It would not experiment, and test the truth.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 2nd January 2022 @ 7:59 am

  4. In collective living security and identity are critical factors. Once any size of people starts alienating individuals they look for alternatives.
    The radical, the fringe element, often form under a fascist type personality.

    That has evolved in a global world to a new generation of activist movements looking for more than their lost freedom.

    What hasn’t changed though is the fanatical commitment, our schools breed and educate seemingly progressive and necessary new-generation social movements who will somehow rescue us from our diabolical past.

    A political tyranny that’s turned society on its head using feminism to disable social cohesion.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 2nd January 2022 @ 4:01 pm

  5. We’ll kill ourselves because of stupidity.

    The failure to recognise it at least.

    There not much difference between saying the greatest progress is made by the scientific extremes and the survivors were the fringe of civilised collapse.

    Avoiding that is not only a matter of concentrating power in the people but them knowing that is both essential and defensible.

    Comment by Downunder — Mon 3rd January 2022 @ 6:59 am

  6. The public can be led to believe, with propaganda.
    The policy may sound good, like PSO legislation.
    It would be hard to find, opposition even by myself.

    But they did not say, they would have policy of only giving them to men.
    Would then such things, be supported into law.
    They blindly support justice, and injustice.

    Many years later, PSOs are still supported.
    A vital tool, for the police.
    The wrongly treated, ignored as policy.

    When they made the Care of Children law, did a single man speak.
    That men would automatically be banned, but no women.
    Is there no greater division, of ones rights.

    They can create a law, that bans only men from children.
    Yet despite endless articles, media remains silent on the subject.
    Policy to ignore men’s suffering, and only printing female issues.

    Yet today I see, the results.
    Domestic Violence, is not being controlled.
    And far to many children, fatherless.

    The government, has done the unthinkable.
    It has taken sides, and persecuted the other.
    Telling the public one thing, and doing the opposite.

    There seems no division, on the rights of men.
    Without consideration, there can be no division.
    Results without objection, from those representing men.

    Division cannot exist, without opposition.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 3rd January 2022 @ 10:14 am

  7. @6 You have the typically invalid view of men not understanding the family court.

    It is a civil court
    The protection order is a civil order
    Given to a woman it names a man who becomes criminally liable for disobeying the court order.

    The reason I point this out is that as a man in such circumstances you cannot apply to the court “to have someone taken off you, that hasn’t been given to you.

    You need to ask the court to take “order off the woman it was given to.”

    You could effectively regard that as the cancellation of a high court injunction.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Mon 3rd January 2022 @ 10:50 am

  8. I think the subject, gets confusing.
    Police Safety Orders (PSO), vs Protection Orders (PO).
    One is created, by a police officer.
    One is created, by the accuser.
    They are, different things.

    The PO, is in effect a piece of law.
    Created using, untested accusations.
    And evidence, is not needed.
    Men create them as well, as a minority.
    It’s purpose is hard to argue with, as the intent is good.

    We of course know, the reality of the PO.
    It so easily bans a parent, from seeing the children.
    It implies it protects people, but also abuses parental rights.
    You will find no statistics, on children stoped from seeing a parent.
    There is no measure, of the harm done.

    I have had a PO, taken against me.
    And got it discharged, in court.
    Stopping it, at the temporary stage.
    So my typical, invalid view.
    Is actually, based on personal experiences.


    #6 is actually how democracy works, as a process of evolution.
    A good example now, is Hong Kong.
    Where opposition is being crushed, so no division exists.
    Democracy, is now dead in Hong Kong.

    Just as no opposition existed, for the creation of the DV act.
    Things can be far better, of it had opposition.
    It’s flaws exposed prior, to passing into law.
    Would a contested law, be a better law.

    The evolution of ideas, is harder without division.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Tue 4th January 2022 @ 12:19 pm

  9. @8 I do not agree with your thinking.

    Police do not create a Police Safety Order, they issue one.

    In that respect the order already existed before the circumstances and without the consent of the parties involved.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Wed 5th January 2022 @ 10:25 am

  10. I have been watching humans, for a long time.
    It was actually a decision I made, when I was five.
    A run in with a teacher, and I went from the front to the back.
    It is much easier, to see everyone from the back of class.

    So on a news site, I have been reading comments.
    And it becomes clear, how divided humans can get.
    American politics, has exposed the worst in people.
    Protests that were more like riots and looting, and crazy litigation.
    Two sides exist, that have simply filled themselves with hate.

    And very little of it, actually deserves hate.
    There is definitely things to dislike, but hatred is different.
    Or comment, wanting sentences of death.
    If both sides had there way, nobody would be left alive.
    Are the best people in the US, now avoiding politics.

    Our leader and opposition leader, are better than what the US offers.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 16th February 2022 @ 5:56 pm

  11. I am certainly divided myself, on many subjects.
    I have definitely had to argue with myself, in the last weeks.
    As an example, I could and have before stopped writing.
    Everything just being to much, so I needed time out.

    I feel like a passenger, without the seatbelt on.
    With a drunk and drugged driver, fixated on changing the radio.
    In the dead of night, going as fast as he can.
    There is simply little I can do, but accept fate.

    All one can do in life, is to go for the ride your given.
    Hardening my resolve to it, has made me think of the past.
    My many weeks long and months long, episodes of depression.
    How I knew at the time, that it was a necessary experience.

    I am no longer divided, as to what the future holds.
    And shed a few tears, over those hard times of the past.
    Being healthy now, makes it hard to ignore the deals done.
    I have done this to myself, slowly I am trapped by my own words.

    I think I will pray, for tomorrow.
    As I go about, my work for the day.
    Not for me but for my message, that it finds good hands.
    And that in good faith, that they respond in kind.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Thu 17th February 2022 @ 6:17 pm

  12. I watched a young lady, read my letter.
    She looked a little shocked, but it think it worked.
    She looked at me, then turned the page to read it again.
    I just carried on my work, and she just stood and watch me leave.

    Soon others, will find a little present.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 18th February 2022 @ 2:33 pm

  13. Nothing like a territory dispute, to divide men.

    So the Russians have taken possession, of some land.
    An analysis, about the border.

    If one looks at the Crimea, it has a long history with Russia.
    With many battles, and countless deaths for it.
    So that’s pretty easy, to consider it Russian.

    One must consider the newness, of Ukraine.
    Is there for example, an indigenous people.
    That have always been Russian, but are now Ukraine citizens.
    The recently created border, in principle incorrect.

    That argument certainly exists, for Taiwan having independence.
    China itself, made of taken over nations.
    A Chinese person, may not actually be Chinese.
    An indigenous person from Taiwan, is not Chinese.

    I struggle to see that argument, is relevant in Russia acting.
    That it is a hostile takeover, of territory.

    The only peaceful solution, is to redraw the boarder.
    Then taking more land, would be war for Ukraine.
    And lots of others, I’m guessing.

    There has been a little war, for a long time.
    So a resolution, is necessary.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 23rd February 2022 @ 5:24 pm

  14. Interesting article:

    Comment by ErasingDad — Thu 24th February 2022 @ 4:28 pm

  15. #14 I liked reading the article.

    As it does ask, important questions.
    What is happening to the groups of men, who die young.
    What are we giving young men, as a purpose to life.
    What are the rules, to being good or bad.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 26th February 2022 @ 8:18 pm

  16. It seems young men are dying, for there country.
    The men of Ukraine drafted, to fight the invader.

    I have watched the news, to see both sides.
    There is blatant examples, of propaganda.

    So the Russian side, does have arguments.
    The US etc, have interfered in Ukraine politics.
    There is long term shelling, of civilian areas.
    Not solved as a problem, by the west.
    Ukraine has asked, to be part of NATO.
    The now recognised new nations, do have arguments for independence.
    One can only think of the new leaders, and who there master is.

    Russia must ask itself, the cost of a guerrilla war.
    With its tanks and planes, it may conquer.
    Making a new government, or worse to make it Russia again.
    But can the Russian, safely walk the street.
    Must it hide in its tank, or live in safe zones.
    Even the US learned, of being wanted invaders.

    Already the makings of men, are being ruined.
    Even the homes of innocent people, wrecked.
    Putin is using political capital, very fast.
    And on both sides, young men are dying.

    Putin must inform us his intent for Ukraine, not just why.
    What is the end game, so he saves his reputation in his mind.
    He would be very foolish, to cause the west to attack.
    While Ukraine may easily succumb, to overwhelming force.
    A western attack, would wipe out whole army’s of armour.
    In a modern war, there will be nowhere to hide.

    We can only hope those that advise Putin, give good advice.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 26th February 2022 @ 9:53 pm

  17. The Ukraine president, is a bit of a character.
    I doubt others have done a skit, playing the piano with his penis.

    It can’t be a good feeling, being him.
    It creates a question, what if he is captured.
    What kangaroo court, will we see.
    And that’s possible in a policy of surrounding, and starving.

    There will be outrage, if they kill him.

    Putin made an error, in not having the will of the people.
    The youth have experienced, western living.
    And it’s them, that voted for change with this president
    They did not vote, for a Russia puppet.

    Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, for security.
    Now without nuclear weapons, they have no security.
    What then of any deal, with Russia.
    What now of nations like Iran, nuclear weapons becomes unavoidable.

    It is delusional, to think this war was a good idea.
    The Cold War generation, wants what they lost.
    The youth of Ukraine are going, WTF is happening.

    This is all crazy, viewing from our bit of paradise.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 2nd March 2022 @ 8:39 pm

  18. I watched a video, of a helicopter being shot down.
    It felt uneasy, watching people die.
    Technology, vs the machine.
    Once tanks and planes, are neutralised.
    Millions of Ukrainians, will be armed.
    The Russian making rubble, terrain for the battle.
    How many Stalingrads, is Russia making for itself.

    One can think of the bully, in the playground.
    Soon the bully, will have no friends.

    The article does lay out, Putin’s point of view.
    And some is paranoia, or exaggerated.

    I cannot see NATO, being the unprovoked attacker.
    It would take months, of debating and votes.

    Putin, has become the despot.
    War by war, he overestimates his deeds.

    Once everyone else unites, what they hate the most happens.
    The response to demands, is always no.

    This is a problem, for the people of Russia.
    Putin decides Ukraines fate, Russians decide Putin’s fate.

    The mothers, of the helicopter crew.
    Will want to have justification, for the sacrifice.

    They may also seek, accountability.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 6th March 2022 @ 9:45 pm

  19. I am glad the protest, is finished.
    Compared to other nations, our police did well.
    Any time now a person will be asked, to write a report.

    I think this was like a Geyser, that goes off occasionally.
    I pile of frustration built up, then let go in moments of anarchy.
    It is obvious, that we are not at peak hospital numbers.
    Which is a reminder, that COVID is not a game.

    Letting the unvaccinated mingle, spreading COVID.
    Was a small disaster, that had to be stoped.

    Compare NZ, to Hong Kong.
    Highly vaccinated older generations, vs low vaccination.
    Hong Kong, has many more deaths.

    I certainly agree, mandates have to go.
    But the results, speak for themselves.
    The Government, has got good results.

    The protest, belongs in court.
    In some ways, a service is lacking.
    In that watchdogs didn’t react, and test the new law or action.
    The watchdog, like the lawyer to a defendant.
    Even if they don’t agree with the defendant, they fight the argument.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Mon 7th March 2022 @ 5:59 pm

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