The Second Wives Movement
Often, the fathers’ rights movement is stereotyped as being full of angry guys at war with womankind. Fathers today certainly have a lot to be angry about. However, the fathers’ movement is not at war with women, but instead with the idea held by some women and some men that mothers matter and fathers don’t. Though critics try to avoid mentioning it, women comprise much of the membership of many fathers’ rights and shared parenting organisations around the world.
The largest group of women involved is second wives. The injustices which their husbands endure have propelled many second wives into the men and fathers’ movement.
But, why is this?
Since over half of all first marriages end in divorce, and 75% of divorcees remarry, there are many second wives and second husbands who struggle with the effects of their spouse’s divorces.
Many second wives who marry divorced fathers have little inkling of the malestrom they are entering–custody disputes, access and visitation denial, sudden child support increases, and the burden of legal fees spent on fighting inequities. Some second marriages end in divorce because of these pressures.
“The fathers’ rights movement is the civil rights movement of our era. Some belittle the plight of fathers, saying ‘oh, they’re men, they’re privileged, what have they suffered compared to other groups?’
The truth is; “Men don’t have rights. They never have.” Even animals have rights in New Zealand, but men don’t.
The feminist movement has always been aided by sympathetic men, and New Zealand women and women around they world would never have come so far so fast without their support. While women still face many problems, those problems have received a fair and often extensive public hearing.
Men now need women’s help and second wives have a much better chance of being listened to than their husbands.
One such woman in America is Fathers & Families Volunteer Coordinator Cheryl Quiambao. She organisers supporters and events and speaks to politicians. It is amazing how easily our leaders in government positions and charity groups will listen to a woman compared to a man.
Where’s New Zealand’s second wives? I have often wondered whether second wives feel they are unwelcome to take part in the men’s movement. Yet they are often the best friend a divorced father can have.
References:
The Second Wives Movement
Why Are There so Many Women in the Fathers’ Movement?
UoF have about 15% women membership and about 40% of our committees in Branches and Nationally are women.
Allan UoF
Comment by Allan Harvey — Fri 17th April 2009 @ 9:13 am
Does this ratio indicate that these women have more sense and energy, than the average separated man?
Comment by Devils Advocaat — Fri 17th April 2009 @ 8:58 pm
What are these many problems which women face in NZ?
Comment by Scott B — Fri 17th April 2009 @ 10:22 pm
Guys, this thread is not meant for you.
It is a welcome to the women.
Comment by julie — Fri 17th April 2009 @ 10:31 pm
We get tired and hungry because of our problems
The IRD does not leave us enough money to eat
But we will one day beat those bastards
Comment by Rosie — Fri 17th April 2009 @ 11:00 pm
Well I think I am allowed to ask the question!
Comment by Scott B — Sat 18th April 2009 @ 12:04 am
ScottB, I think you ask a good question. Would it be OK with you if I kept this thread open for woman and asked you to take this issue up on another thread?
Comment by julie — Sat 18th April 2009 @ 12:37 am
Thanks for your reply Allan. This helps.
Comment by julie — Sat 18th April 2009 @ 1:33 am
That certainly is our experience Devils Advocaat.
Our National Treasurer is a huge worker for UoF, our secretaries and newsletter writers have mostly been women, we have had women president in the past. Yes the women executive members in UoF have shown energy, persistence, drive and loyalty that has helped us grow a lot.
Comment by Allan Harvey — Sat 18th April 2009 @ 10:39 am
In my many years in NZ meeting countless people I’ve never met a woman
who went hungry through lack of social support.
I have only seen less than a handful of homeless women in NZ.
Spending time abroad I’ve seen real grinding poverty with desperate hunger
and homelesness and even then it’s by far most usually been men.
It’s obvious that when NZ men get institutionally shafted it effects
their second wives too, but I’d be careful about stretching claims of it’s
impact on women too far.
To do so would be just another crude feminist attempt to corner the market on victimhood.
Comment by Skeptik — Sat 18th April 2009 @ 4:38 pm
Julie, pray do tell us in which thread you will answer Scott B’s question. Also, I don’t believe this site provides a facility for making a thread that’s only for women to read. Your excuse for refusing to account for what you write is not credible.
Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 19th April 2009 @ 1:30 am
I am tired of all this Hans. I surrender, you win. May you have as much luck with other women.
Comment by julie — Sun 19th April 2009 @ 3:31 am
There are many women affected by what is happening to fathers in our country. There are many women in men’s groups. The ones that do get involved tend to be more likely to be vocal and energetic. All of this is true and Julie is right that critics try to trivialise the involvement of women within these groups.
I applaud Julie’s acknowledgement of these women. Go Julie!
This a fine thread to hear more from these women.
Comment by Dave — Mon 20th April 2009 @ 9:23 pm
Julie says many wise things
Comment by martin swash — Mon 20th April 2009 @ 10:24 pm
Hey Rosie, I bet it is real frustrating too. I think I have read somewhere on here things you have written to politicians. Yes/No?
Comment by julie — Mon 20th April 2009 @ 11:01 pm
Hi Martin Swash, thanks again for the compliment. Do you write posts here also?
Thank-you also Dave. Did you know that men’s groups also help women in custody battles too?
Comment by julie — Mon 20th April 2009 @ 11:03 pm
Yes
Comment by Dave — Tue 21st April 2009 @ 1:46 pm
I saw on the news tonight that the IRD are going to get rid of 250 members of their staff.
These 250 staff members are probably amongst those who I talk to regularly.
Those who can’t understand like I can’t how a man can be told that his income for the year is thousands of dollars more than he has actually earned.
When you ask them to explain why an administrative review officer has set a mans income at more than he has earned,they talk in riddles, obviously because they can’t understand themselves.
Now that their futures are just being tossed out the door some of them may have some understanding as to why so many men choose to end their own lives rather than put up with the same kind of crap that the reviews officers dish out to them year after year
Comment by Rosie — Wed 22nd April 2009 @ 8:03 pm
I am a second wife and am trying to find some information about getting child support payments from non custodial mother that does not want to pay – what can the IRD do ? The ex used to do random shared custody so it was easy to avoid making CS payments but now she is living a working in Australia. From what I have read so far – its almost impossible to enforce?
Can anyone fill me in on this?
Comment by Lucy — Sun 1st November 2009 @ 4:15 pm
Julie wrote –
“I am tired of all this Hans. I surrender, you win. May you have as much luck with other women”.
No need to get shitty with Hans there Julie.
He’s merely pointing out the obvious.
Do you want you and your women freinds to take over this site? To swamp it with women talking about their issues?
I’m afraid if we start having women only threads we’ll end up inundated with femspeak and little room for men and their supporters to get a word in!
The lack of places for men to speak out would then be erroded further. Is that what you want?
Comment by Skeptik — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 1:40 pm
Hi Lucy,
Inland revenue can help in this situation. There is an agreement between New Zealand and Australia.
Have you tried them?
Comment by julie — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 3:07 pm
Lol, I think it is plain to see by the lack of women’s response that menz doesn’t have the same support from women as does Teri Stoddard, Carey Roberts and Glenn Sacks in America.It was from their success I thought it possible that NZ had similar women.
But y’know. NZ is different through the simple facts men don’t pay alimony, men don’t yet go to prison for not paying child support and we do have health cover over here.
Over in America it is much more of, “You have to make things work to survive”. That is probably why they have second wives working as a collective. Same for Canada.
Comment by julie — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Hi Julie and others,
I know three guys who have done time for Child Support matters. When IRD want to they can be quite the agents of state oppression. Even an examination of means can have you spend four hours in holding cells.
Allan
Comment by [email protected] — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 4:46 pm
Hi Allan,
I am speechless. Can you give a bit more detail on how this happened?
Comment by julie — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 7:48 pm
Two were visited by cops early in morning (one 6am the other 8am), locked up for the morning and ragged to Family Court for examination of means. One chose to be silent in the Court room and got locked up over lunchtime for 4 hours for “contempt of Court” and as the judge said “to come to his senses or he can stay there overnight”. The third got two and half months inside for contempt of Court for his response to being questioned about his support of his children. Personally I think he had a mental health condition and certainly after he PTD (Post Traumatic Shock Disorder). Professional man, no prior offenses, law abiding citizen until he got dumped with Protection Order and Child Support Harrassment. After serving 2 months he was a fairly broken chap for a while.
All three guys were moderately wealthy and 2 paid 100% of private school fees for their kids. One guy paid over $40,000 a year for schoioling expenses. All three found the concept of child support offensive as they felt they already provided for their kids financially.
One chap had left over $400,000 of his share of matrimonial property in the home mum and kids lived in but he still got harrassed to comply with her need to exert power against him.
The issue before the Court was in each case much more about compliance with providing for her lifestyle and to prove a point and teach him a lesson rather than anything about support of Children.
Comment by Allan — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 9:19 pm
Many would disagree with your comment that men don’t pay alimony. I have a case at the moment where they share the care of children week on week off, she earns $50,000 from her part-time job and has a partner on over $150k he earns $80,000 year working full-time including overtime, is single and has a huge mortgage as he purchased the family home to offer stability for the children.
Dads household earns half what her household does, he meets all schooling costs and has a savings account for both kids. Still not enough for her and Child Support and they still want $7,000 a year in alimony from father.
How can that ever be called Child Support? when it funds her overseas holidays, her extensive art collection and shopping habits. To my mind that is alimony pure and simple.
Comment by Allan — Mon 2nd November 2009 @ 9:29 pm
I reckon we do pay alimony here in NZ.
IRD and the ones that are pocketing it may have given it a misleading title but that doesnt change what it is. There are no checks or balances in the system of extorting it to ensure that it is spent on the children. It either goes to IRD to help support the recipient of the DPB maintain their lifestyle or goes directly to the party if they arnt collecting the DPB.
There is nothing to ensure it is used in anyway to support children.
That, if it happens, is a happy co-incidence.
Its like the school “donation” scheme. But with even more enforcemnent powers
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…………………
Yep, Alimony!!! calling it anything else is twaddle.
Comment by mits — Wed 4th November 2009 @ 8:26 am