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MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Sat 2nd September 2017

Concerned Mens Meeting – Saturday 4th November

Filed under: General — Downunder @ 2:42 pm

A meeting will be held in Auckland on this day should the Ministry of Men’s Affairs choose to organise it.

Concerned Men can attend the meeting and express their opinions.

Let us know where this is.

23 Responses to “Concerned Mens Meeting – Saturday 4th November”

  1. George says:

    I am coming . Dear fellow men , let organize our selves .If you are not affected by PO , the chances are quite high it may happen to you one day

  2. DJ Ward says:

    Auckland meeting sounds good to me. I’ll turn up.

  3. triassic says:

    I’m confused downunder….it is a great idea for brainstorming plus networking and one I will attend but why must MoMA organise it? Maybe you are referring to a location?

  4. brilliant… count me in… I am a big advocate for men’s mental health and have spoken to many organisations about this.

  5. Downunder says:

    @3 if MOMA doesn’t want to organise this meeting, they should say so now, as it appears that there are concerned men wanting to attend this meeting.

  6. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    This is just a piss-take from Downunder who is wasting our time and bandwidth out of some problematic motivation.

  7. DJ Ward says:

    You might be correct but that doesn’t meen we can’t have a get together even if it’s not in a hall with some speakers. Just a group of like minded people meeting in a garden bar is all that’s required. No organising required really. While the stuff we do here on Menz is one thing, we do need to find ways to engage with the outside world and those things may best be discussed in private. I’ve got some ideas and I’m sure others do too.

  8. JohnPotter says:

    I have to say I was a bit confused about this post when first I read it, and didn’t pay enough attention.

    It occurs to me, on Fathers Day, that the fathers who make up the MENZ community, especially those of us getting closer to senior years, should be modeling the sort of behaviour that we hope society will emulate.

    I am well aware that feminist groups tear themselves apart regularly, but it doesn’t have to be this way.

    Throughout human history, progress has most often been made when groups of men learned to band together, and to put aside their differences in the pursuit of a common goal.
    This can only happen if we treat each other with respect, even if we don’t always agree. Please be nicer.

    I do however think that holding a meeting on Nov 4th is a great idea.

    I would prefer somewhere quiet, and I agree with DJW that we don’t need speakers. We could just sit in a circle, spend 5-10 mins introducing ourselves and chucking out any big ideas we might have, then see what happens after that.

    Any venue ideas?

    If anyone who thinks they might come leaves a comment here, we will know how big a place we need.

  9. Ministry of Men's Affairs says:

    We’ll certainly attend a meeting like that, sounds good.

  10. MurrayBacon says:

    Great idea.
    I am a good keen man.
    In my experience, talking together in a room is far more productive than keyboard warriors shouting at each other from safe distances.
    Progress only seems to be made when people contribute well, listen to each other and have a fairly good understanding of each other. Of course this does have to happen in the opposite order!?
    In other words, teamwork.
    Expecting progress before establishing relationships, would be expecting too much. Thus can lead to falling apart and recriminations.
    There is a large herd of elephants that needs to be made visible. Quite hard work, I fear, before the real work can even start.
    The 4th is a little too late to be able to assemble large, huge amounts of explosive. An earlier date might work better in this respect?

  11. Hornet says:

    Lots to discuss….here is a study from California university comparing 16000 households and assessing the true costs of raising a child.

    The knives are out for this state enforced child support scam ……which is simply being used to incarcerate good fathers…..

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=196XCAXfqrI

  12. Hornet says:

    And here is a good woman telling it like it is……she’s on the side of good fathers….

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0-zBKCOLIS8

  13. Man X Norton says:

    Thanks Hornet for the good youtube videos. The study on the cost of raising a child was interesting and contradicts the feminist corruption of scientific method employed a couple of years ago to suggest that such costs amounted to many hundreds of thousands of dollars (therefore men should be even further impoverished to support the lifestyles of women they were unlucky enough to mate with). That research was incomprehensible, made numerous false assumptions and subjected its basic data to mysterious mathematical manipulation to come out with ridiculous numbers.

  14. MurrayBacon says:

    In my opinion, it would be helpful if possible attendees indicated the topics that they would like to discuss?
    Then we can see whether a large single discussion is the best format, or several smaller interest groups?
    I would suggest:
    1. how to build and enhance teamwork among fathers and bring in more fathers
    2. how to obtain increased political influence
    3. quality and timeliness of familycaught$ decisions and their impact onto the parenting that children receive.
    4. impacts of IRD child [and spousal] support on parent’s and children’s lives.

  15. Downunder says:

    If a man was concerned that his neighbour had committed suicide, or his brother was unemployed, or he really wasn’t sure if he cast the right vote, or if he should of voted, when he didn’t, or if he was just concerned, that when he looked around, he thought, ‘it dudn’t look right anymore’, which group would he go to?

  16. Downunder says:

    So your mothers said, “Hang in there sons, it’ll be ok.”
    Your sisters said, “Don’t you stress boys, we’re here for youse.”
    The Doctors said, “You take those pills, don’t you throw them away.”
    So, you commin along or are we just gonna keep singin’ the blues?

  17. MurrayBacon says:

    If there is a realistic looking meeting, that is not too expensive, I will attend.
    I believe that MoMA has made the same commitment.
    I don’t know of anyone else who has committed to attend?
    The last 4 such meetings I have attended, haven’t achieved anything of value. (Thus, maybe I should stay away?)
    To be motivated to attend, I would like to have sensible goals and to be driven by positive goals, rather than bitterness.
    A bit more clarity about the proposal would help.

    I was at a disability group meeting and a comment was made by the chairman that they were working in with related groups, so that if political issues arose, they could quickly submit a single letter, with their agreed submission and a list of the organisations that signed the letter, complete with their total paid up membership number. Typically the total number would be in low hundreds to several thousand. (Of course, on some issues, not all groups might sign one particular letter.) This type of arrangement is possibly a model that we should aim at?
    I recall from the past, that letters that we wrote on various men’s or father’s issues, rarely could claim more than 10 signatures. Such letters don’t put as much pressure onto politicians.
    Business lobbies combine many employers and even go so far as to directly contest elections, masquerading as a voter’s party and win.

  18. voices back from the bush says:

    17, good suggestions Murray, I would look forward to a metting as there’s much benefit in speaking face to face about men’s issues moving forward. I don’t think the organising needs to be done by Moma, they have already organised two events in wellington this year, You are a seasoned campaigner and well rounded about the issues, how about you chair/adjudicate/referee a meeting?
    Obveously all of us want to have our say and listen to others with as little restriction as possible.
    Personally I would prefer a closed meeting with attendee’s being asked to explain thier interest in being there as the press has not been kind in the past and loves to misrepresent us.
    As a venue suggestion, I think we could do better than a pub setting which may not be very private.
    I know some guys who are in the masonic lodge here on Waiheke, they support men’s issues and might allow us to use thier lodge meeting room, Its private and equipped with a kitchen, (i’ll ask them to put the goats away) attendees would have to come up with $28 for return ferry ticket from auckland, a pot luck lunch perhaps, Call it the first annual Waiheke wolfpack meeting!?
    Perhaps on a Saturday or Sunday without a specified finishing time.

    Just a suggestion,I Welcome idea’s from others & I look forward to catching up with you again Murray and meeting others also.

  19. MurrayBacon says:

    The meeting suggestion came from Downunder. So I would guess that he should have first right of refusal on chairing etc?
    As I remember him, he would be a good chairman and I want to support that.
    I don’t feel generally respected, so I would not be keen to try and act as facilitator etc.
    My budget is very tight.
    I like clarity more than unmanaged confusion.
    I wouldn’t even consider a pub setting, it is outside of my budget. And alcohol doesn’t help stability or clear thought. Also, some fathers are taking drugs that don’t mix with ethyl poison. The rest of us aren’t in much of a different situation either.
    Sorry to throw around cautions and negatives, when we are trying to be positive. Play to win.

  20. Downunder says:

    18 and 19 the idea was floated with the intention of bringing new faces, as well as old.

    The idea of a Waiheke Island meeting would (I think) be restrictive and in some cases unattractive.

    Given the desire of some wishing to travel a distance I would suggest an Auckland Venue, and a time of 1pm.

    I am sure there would be readers who could propose a venue at little or no cost, which could be covered at the door.

    Regardless of past difficulties that have arisen with the media, over certain issues, this thinking also suggests that there would not be issues that are currently topical, and might be brought to the meeting by new faces.

    In the past new faces often brought valuable information about many current situations, and also the realization that they were not in the unique position that they thought.

    I would not like to think that the opportunity was reduced to a reclusive and defensive position of familiar faces – that is something that needs to be put in the past. Many years ago one of first people I happened to meet at such a meeting was Barry Woods, from Waiheke, who had authored a book on the Family Law as it was then.

    I take a leaf from his book, that while many of us will be left with memories of injustice and unfinished business it is not beyond us to help other people.

    While many of us are comformable with informal meetings, I am sure any need for chairmanship could be resolved on the day.

    Personally I have organised and funded many such meetings, simply because I felt there was a need, and a purpose, at that time.

    It would be best if a new face, put up his hand and organised a venue, if they felt likewise.

    Failing this I would suggest there is not sufficient concern among the men in this audience to warrant the effort, not that a meeting of those interested should not be held, and familiar faces might like to consider those options if we do not have a viable response by mid October.

  21. MurrayBacon says:

    Thanks very much Downunder.
    It is astonishing that Barry Woods book is practically as relevant today, as it was then. (I thought Barry trusted and respected the integrity of familycaught$ quite a bit more than I do.)
    So little has changed, in such a long time.
    Accordingly, newer styles of addressing this challenge against families is needed.
    In my opinion, the complacency of most men is our biggest challenge. It will never happen to me. It is too late to do anything about it…..
    We have to educate the population of men to act to protect themselves, from those meant to protect vulnerable people.
    It did seem to me that the suicide protest at Parliament had a hidden theme on men’s suicide. Pity that theme was so well hidden.

  22. MurrayBacon says:

    I am happy to collate suggestions for agenda, in priority order.
    If interested people EMAIL a list of their topics of interest, I will assemble them together and report.

    murraybacon @orcon.net. nz

    If anyone has any particular anonymity requirements, please detail those too. Some people might like to give me a speech, for someone to read, so that they are not identifiable in the group? This also allows checking that they are in fact not identifiable. This can be a minefield.
    Also, some people might prefer other dates. If enough people suggest a different date, for side topics, then I am happy to bring that together, within reason. If the date for side topics is before 4th November, then the conclusions can be reported to the larger group.
    I hope that approach gives everyone the best chance of getting what they want the most.

  23. MurrayBacon says:

    Suggestions for an agenda could be taken from the 2005 Men’s Conference at Henderson, Waitakere, or from the recent Men’s Conference at Wellington.
    Men’s Conference 2005 see page v or 5 Table of Contents
    I haven’t seen any proceedings from the recent Men’s Conference yet. These would be very helpful at the present moment.
    By comparison, an agenda could be produced by issues as raised by men attending men’s support groups.
    As I recall from the previous millennium, complaints mainly were related to familycaught$ custody decisions, failure to discipilne parents and IRD Child [and spousal] Support, after separation.
    Following these might give a conference a reactive focus, rather than proactive.
    It also might seem unnecessarily negative?
    Do we want to face challenges head on, or keep ourselves in the nicy pie, politically correct space?
    My vote is half of each and then quickly drink the Cool Aid (without tasting it) as a group afterwards………….

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