MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

The Kahui Twins

Filed under: General — dpex @ 6:53 pm Sun 18th June 2006

What level of inhumanity must a person descend to that enables him/her to in any way just upset or deprive a child?

But what level of disgusting inhuman descent must one reach before seriously hitting a child is acceptable?

What level of inhumanity could enable any person to hit, with such ferocity as to kill and seriously injure, a three month old infant?

Cru Kahui is dead after just three months of life. His brother Chris is critically injured…three months old.

The perpetrator of this vile crime deserves to die, very slowly and painfully. If not for Cru and Chris, then for me and the billions, world-wide, who need to know justice for these little boys.

I don’t care for their reasons or excuses. The perpetrator’s act in this case is well beyond even normal revulsion levels.

You can bet CYFS will get pilloried for this. In this instance I wish to extend my support to CYFS. When the rocks begin to be thrown. How could you possibly have known that such an animal as the killer of this child existed, or could even begin to predict he/she would kill and seriously injure.

No. CYFS make a lot of bad mistakes, but this time they deserve our support in the event they attract blame; which they most assuredly will.

We know this pig will end up in prison. Let us hope the other prisoners do that which our society, in such extreme cases, should be doing, lawfully.



  1. Humans – we are an arrogant bunch really, as we wonder how some of us could be animals. Isn’t the reality that we are all animals, some just fortunate enough to find circumstances in which we can obtain a degree of humanity. There are animals in places like the family court, and given their level of access to humanity their behaviour might be considered far less excusable than some people whom we are quick to judge, too quick perhaps, as the investigation has only just begun.

    Comment by Bevan Berg — Mon 19th June 2006 @ 11:44 am

  2. Being as cynical as I am I note that Cindy Kiro the child commissioner has already begun paving the way for an excuse for this act (if it was perpetuated by a female) by noting that undiagnosed post natal depression was one of many reasons we have such a high child abuse rate. We know that any male who would commit this kind of atrocity should be punished to the absolute strictest level the law will allow, why do we always try to find reasons to ‘excuse’ women from equally foul deeds?

    Comment by Ed — Mon 19th June 2006 @ 1:56 pm

  3. you ask:
    “What level of inhumanity must a person descend to that enables him/her to in any way just upset or deprive a child?”

    The level of inhumanity promoted and supported by the family courts

    Comment by starr — Mon 19th June 2006 @ 5:28 pm

  4. I stumbled on your site after googling the Chris and Cru Kahui twins.

    Notice I have not given my full name…I’m scared guys like you who harbour so much resentment for women will target me. Take a look at yourself (and this site, especially the letter from Julie on the front page) and think about what you are trying to achieve.

    Signed a happily married guy without all the emotional baggage you lot have.

    Comment by DB — Tue 20th June 2006 @ 5:07 pm

  5. I guess, DB, you may have a Saul Of Tarsus view on matters when you, also, come face-to-face with systemic injustice at a level which will stun you by its ferocity and inhumanity. …And I sincerely hope you never ever have to learn the hard way as we have learned.

    And as regards Julie. Maybe she will allow you to email her direct whereupon she might tell you her story. After learning her story perhaps you’d be good enough to return here and apologise for the making of your somewhat misinformed comments.


    Comment by dpex — Tue 20th June 2006 @ 6:41 pm

  6. Dear DB,

    There are hundreds of posts on this website with 1000’s of comments yet very few make reference to a resentment of women.
    Analysis may show an exposure of duplicity by ex partners and the State System de-fathering a vast majority of New Zealand children.
    It may also expose something a little more sinister that the radical feminists have implemented at every level of our and other nations societies.
    Google will show you the path.

    Kind Regards

    Comment by Paul Catton — Tue 20th June 2006 @ 8:08 pm

  7. Notice I have not given my full name…I’m scared guys like you who harbour so much resentment for women will target me. Take a look at yourself (and this site, especially the letter from Julie on the front page) and think about what you are trying to achieve.

    Signed a happily married guy without all the emotional baggage you lot have.

    Comment by DB

    Hey DB.

    First off I believe you’re way out of line accusing guys writing on this site of being against women. You’re insulting white knighting is ignorance writ large there bro’.
    Take a deep breath.
    Now, look again oh chivalrous hider.
    We’re against misandrists only.
    Got that?

    You’re right about one thing though. You’re going to be targetted.
    But not by me oh invisible hiding ‘hero’.
    For I reckon your smug and callous
    ‘I’m happily married without your guys emotional baggage’ attitude means your a walking target for misandrists.

    DB casually stirred his coffee thinking

    “It’ll never happen to me” “Not like those stupid woman hating suckers” he thought.
    “Oh no, no, no. I’m much too smart for that.

    Much too together.

    Much too likeable.

    Much too

    Good luck DB.

    Comment by Stephen — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 5:06 am

  8. I had to look up misandrists since I’m not familiar with it. Interesting word. If they hate men, why did they agree to marry you ? ?

    The family courts seem to have a tough time working out a resolution in these affairs. Nothing is black and white when it comes to families and relationships. My advice to you is : Instead of blaming your estranged partners and the court system try and reconcile something between you and your (ex) partner and agree to some ground rules yourselves

    Comment by db — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 12:00 pm

  9. Hi db,

    It will be interesting to see what happens to the person (man or woman) that is responsible for the death of these twins.

    If it is a man do you expect that he would already be locked up and sentenced quite heavily. But if it is a female do you think they will do the same or will we find an excuse like post natal depression.

    Have you never read or heard from work collegues or friends that are having to deal with issues regarding their rights as a father?

    Are you not aware of the amount of young females that have no boundaries when it comes to what they can do the young males? Are you not aware how this is affecting our young men?

    Do you know that we have books that explain women have the right to be abusive because it is because of the mans bad actions that she acts this way? Do you know that a man gets angry to control (so they say) the woman but his actions are not justified. He is just a bad man even if he only did it one instance in his whole life. And did you know that scientists and other professional jobs will be lost in an instance for this one action? A mans whole life will be turned upside down while a female is a poor victim even if she stabs her man. You cannot work with the public if you hit a woman yet you can keep your job if you were caught with a kilo of drugs.

    Can you predict any future problems with all this? Most of the people on this site are trying to make changes for the next victim. My personal fight is over, the pain and consequences will spill over in generations to come. I’d love to think that I was just one person and my family was just one family that suffers from the systems we have put in place to protect. But there are thousands of others going through it right now. We have teenagers without dads out of control because we won’t chance them being dads because their ex said they think somtime in the future the father will harm his own children. There is no invidence needed just an accusation.

    Is this really the environment you want your children to grow up in? I don’t.

    Comment by julie — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 12:21 pm

  10. DB said –
    I had to look up misandrists since I’m not familiar with it. Interesting word. If they hate men, why did they agree to marry you ? ?

    The family courts seem to have a tough time working out a resolution in these affairs. Nothing is black and white when it comes to families and relationships. My advice to you is : Instead of blaming your estranged partners and the court system try and reconcile something between you and your (ex) partner and agree to some ground rules yourselves

    Hey DB,
    Earth to DB. Are you recieving, over?
    Try to work something out with the ex and the femily court. What a joke!
    Been there tried that bro. All it produced was an alienated kid, huge financial burden and misery for me and many other fathers. Julie is spot on with her analysis IMO.
    You seem to be in deep denial about the machiavelian working of that secretive feminist cult the ‘family’ court.
    Get over it bro. Pronto. Otherwise you could be the next poor bugger who gets taken to the cleaners.
    You ask why do some women agree to marry us – then go on to abuse many of us?
    Well, buddy, because in recent times and to this day they can clean a guy out using fouls means – with impunity to boot.

    Now if that doesn’t shift your onion pal, meditate on this – approximately 300,000 will go to sleep tonight in another house than thier dads.
    Happy with that level of alienation?

    Comment by Stephen — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 1:19 pm

  11. Julie said:
    If it is a man do you expect that he would already be locked up and sentenced quite heavily. But if it is a female do you think they will do the same or will we find an excuse like post natal depression.

    Umm, I don’t want to get into the debate re the way men are treated in the courts (having no experience thank god), but really Julie, PND is a bona fide mental health disorder, along with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Yes mental health disorders might be used as “excuses”, but not every claim of PND is false, just as not all rape claims are false. No-one knows enough about the Kahui case yet to know for certain what the story was, but trying to assert that PND is nothing more than a construct to condone women’s bad behaviour is a bit blinkered don’t you think?

    Comment by AJAY — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 2:16 pm

  12. Dear DB,
    I’m happily married. Get on better with my mother than my 3 sisters, and still would be called a radical by thin skin little girls like yourself. Again you make sweeping generalizations, but I’m sure you would hate them directed at women and effeminate men. Your comments lack substance and run on feelings and are an example of how badly effeminate our society has become. This site is very popular, whether you would like to admit it or not, for ideas are exchanged between men and women made of sterner stuff(and backed up evidence). Please go watch a warm fuzzy group hug TV sitcom and turn your brain to pure mush.

    Comment by Intrepid — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 2:31 pm

  13. Hi AJAY,

    I know PND is real as are other mental illnesses. This is not a case I want to use for debate because it is really sad. Death is final and it will affect the rest of people’s lives (family and friends)

    But think about it, “do you really think they don’t know what happened.”

    You are fortunate to not be in the legal system and i hope you never have to deal with it. However, you can’t ignore what is happening to your brothers. You can’t ignore that the future of you children and thier children are going to be affected by it. If you have sons then you need to look into things. You might raise your sons to be the nicest of people and they might meet up only with nice girls. Nice girls are getting caught up in all this too.

    read this;

    women and criminal justice



    Comment by julie — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 5:10 pm

  14. Dear DB

    I certainly don’t mind going to the Deutch Bank to meet up with you and show you a volumes of Family Court Cases where acrimonious Mothers spitefully play the system to shaft Dad assisted by unethical legal workers.
    Are you open minded enough to forward an invitation or are you like some of the transients to this site,an anonymous stirrer getting jollies.

    Kind Regards

    Comment by Paul Catton — Wed 21st June 2006 @ 8:40 pm

  15. Hi Ajay
    don’t you reckon every claim for PND or abuse or whatever should be verifed rather than accepted on say so?

    As you say there are cases where these do happen however in the interest of true justice and what is happening these days, don’t you think verification is necessary?

    Comment by starr — Thu 22nd June 2006 @ 6:06 pm

  16. I’m wondering why the family of the twins are able to close ranks to protect the killer now but weren’t able to close ranks to stop the abuse of the children. what are the priorities here?

    Comment by Chrissy — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 12:01 am

  17. I agree Chrissy,

    I am also wondering why the father was questioned for 8 hours and women are on the news telling us it’s our fault as society for not looking after the mother.

    Comment by julie — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 7:31 am

  18. “I am also wondering why the father was questioned for 8 hours and women are on the news telling us it’s our fault as society for not looking after the mother.”

    Hi julie

    it is similar situations where all excuses are made to cover women. Because this happens and when the truth is being told from the males, the truth is not only not accepted in most cases but overidden which drive a person to become very desperate in his / her quest for justice. Deep down he knows it is wrong and this is a line he will not cross nor let others cross it- feelings arising from a sense of injustice being committed. He will then be driven into a corner where he has no choice and hence resorts to use desperate measures to achieve a true balance of justice.

    Hence this person who will actually stand up for what is right will only be judged on his desperate actions and not his pleas/resolve to achieve what is right.

    the question the society needs to ask is “is what he/she trying to achieve right when he/she is being shafted for justice evryway he/she turns?” has our society degraded to an extent where they readily make excuses to save the perpetrators but not for the righteous?

    Comment by starr — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 6:21 pm

  19. Dear Starr,

    If not rhetorical, yes. Our societies have degraded to that extent, and when the “not enough kids curve meets the many needing retirement support curve” there will be more nastiness from those who claim to be humanists. Their lives as grasshoppers will come due and they will come knocking at the hard working ant men’s door for more taxes. The fact that these men have done nothing wrong to hurt any women’s feelings will not save them. The mental gymnastics to justify it will get very interesting and more evil. And believe it or not there will still be these “supposed moderate men” going along with the establishment and bending over backwards to say why we shouldn’t get angry or do anything rash…
    Get out if you can before it is too late, like Stephen and I. If not, start burying your money in the basement.
    What is the combined tax rate(all forms of taxes put together)in NZ? I would really like to know, anybody? Not just income tax in isolation for in Canada, for example, you need to buy a passport every 5 years(10 years in standard) to support every angle of the effeminate heartstrings of the superior ones, who don’t seem to have cared enough to have saved(no final judgment and all) when following their superior emotional compass. I’ve heard NZ is headed in the Swedish direction again, is it true?

    Comment by Intrepid — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 7:30 pm

  20. Intrepid says,

    Get out if you can before it is too late, like Stephen and I. If not, start burying your money in the basement.

    That\’s exactly what lots of people do.
    Selfish suckers.

    The funny thing is that you have all fought for yourselves, lost and then complained through this site and through letters, discussing the problem in the pubs, boardrooms, whatever. And of course men are ready to have a say to the media when they are phoned for an interview.

    What is even more funny is that I have allowed you to all challenge me yet no-one can be relied on for one reason or the other or want to use me and my agression for their own personal gain.

    What you did not realise is that by challenging me you gave me the right to challenge you back.

    I am getting tired of you. I think if one was to make a difference one would have to rise above you.

    So I guess it seems if I want change I will have to do it myself.

    I have seen this type of business over and over again. It is called networking. One person finds another leader and they will make a profit from the person they personally signed up.

    Good luck to you guys protesting for you might win your case. But do you really care for mens issues, I think not.

    I did not sign up to fight for your rights to see your children. I signed up for the bigger picture and my children.

    But hey, what the hell, I might get lucky and have boys that don\’t break up from their wives.

    Screw your runaway attitude.

    On a more positve note, I went to a males funeral today, listened to the only son speak so highly of his father and how he was raised and gained so much wisdom to be not just a man but a banker of the world bank who is far too qualified to work at our banks, so he has come back from Japan to teach banks here how to expand their businesses, Besides this I got so much support from all his associates on males rights.

    Don\’t be wimps but if you are don\’t challenge me.

    Comment by julie — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 9:02 pm

  21. Dear Julie,
    You have said you were at this for 7 years, yet lately you said you were finished. Yet you seem like you are going to stay and get frisky. I’ll challenge you when you land and let us know what’s up?

    Comment by Intrepid — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 10:09 pm

  22. Intrepid,

    I didnt keep anything to hold against you.

    OK, I have landed.

    Firstly, For what I want to do, that is; have meetings for males about child support around Auckland first; I have to do myself which means I have to learn the ins and outs.

    Secondly, If I want to change things for the bigger picture, I need to have a plan of action for mens rights.
    That means:
    Taxation/child support
    Social Services
    Matrimonial and Family Law
    Civil Law
    Criminal Law
    Media Representation
    Representation in Womens and Mens Groups
    Representation in Parliament and Government etc.
    Legal Protection Against Discrimination
    Constitutional law

    United Kingdom mens movement
    Go into site, click About UKMM, and then Objectives. (small print)

    They have a set of objectives for men.

    I cant get major support for men fighting the FC (being a female). But I can get support.

    I dont mind spending time working out what NZ men need and I have gathered statistical information.

    I dont even mind getting 30,000 signatures to a petition to have parliament take notice. I am happy to even get males in parliament to be prepared.

    What i dont need is for you to tell people to run-away or hide as a way of dealing with things. In fact I didnt even know you did such a thing.

    I never said I wasnt going to do anything. I was not committed strongly and my determination wasnt 100%.

    But I will tell you this. For me to have weak commitment and undetermined is probably more than most people would be prepared to give anyhow.

    The commitment will come when I believe I can trust the people around me and the determination will come from having support.

    My priorities are always set. I can do nothing if I dont have a half-stable life.

    Comment by julie — Fri 23rd June 2006 @ 10:55 pm

  23. Intrepid,

    I see you have not writen anything back. That’s cool.

    My load is nothing compared with others that are visiting the homes etc of people in need. I am only one pawn amongst many. But I will do my bit.

    You do your bit where your talents are and I think you are very good at writing and challenging minds. I like your attitude to stand and fight. Unfortunately when I DO THIS, all my flaws show as well as my strengths. How embarrassing.

    I do not have the skills yet to deal with this in a wise fashion nor the whole understanding of the problems or solutions. What I do have is leaders to follow.

    So I will spin, flip, jump here to there etc, etc but I will get it as long as I stick with it.

    I know somewhere along the line, everything will automatically come together like an undeniable, undisputable, undestroyable force that cannot be stopped. All will duck for cover.

    Comment by julie — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 9:35 am

  24. Wow, Julie,
    I beaver day and night for 20 years in extreme isolation whilst living in nz fighting the feminazzi. In that 20 years I work on a daily basis as a social worker, college lecturer, mental health trainer and probation officer. Dialy I have to deal with misandric colleagues and clients.
    Then I realise I can’t do this any more. I fight against it but then succumb humbly to the knowledge that the personal cost is just mounting and dragging me down and down.
    I have the good sense to then move away to a palce where I can metaphorically speaking see the sky again. Yet even then I still I revisit my former ‘prison cell’ as I maintain a link with nz daily. As I do this I use my mind to debate, challenge, philosophise, question, teach, learn and love.
    Then you come along and insult me accusing me of being a selfish runaway who won’t face up to the problems males have in nz!

    You might also loke to ponder this too Julie.
    The kids in my school have taken to nicknaming me Grandfather. They adore me as I do them. In daily actions I am passing on the beautiful love my Grandfathers gave to me.
    Something nz wouldn’t allow me to do.
    So do you reckon I should be somewhere where I can strengthen fathering or not?

    Comment by Stephen — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 11:55 am

  25. I am a feminist, who believes that regardless of a PND diagnosis – if a mother harms her child, she should be held accountable to the full extent of the law. I have mental illness myself – times when I am not fully in control. Yet, my morals are such that if I were to ever seriously harm somebody while unwell… when I ‘came out of it’, I would face up to what I did and be punished for it. If a person has MORALS they will allow themselves to be punished for their criminal acts – regardless of whether or not they were mentally ill at the time. The only thing is – most people who commit criminal acts seem to have no morals.

    If a person is so mentally ill that they never become ‘well’ (and they have commited a criminal act of violence) they need to be locked up forever anyway, because they cannot be trusted not to commit further offenses.

    I also believe that children need to have a relationship with their father. As long as a parent (male or female) is not abusive or neglectful, then there should be a relationship between parent and child. I do think the court can make things difficult for fathers (and perhaps mothers – I am not sure) who have had their children taken away from them. But with situations like what happened to the poor Kahui twins — can you blame the court? They might just be trying desperately to prevent things like this happening all over the show. And I don’t just mean murder. There are other awful awful things that can happen to children which may never show any physical signs.

    Perhaps one of the best things fathers groups could do is go out and protest against child abuse. Protest against rape and violence. Yet I don’t think I have seen that. I can tell you one thing — it would start to change public perception of your groups and of your cause. And if you truly are anti child abuse and violence (violence against ALL people)- why not go out there and show everyone? It can only serve your cause, I think.

    My heart goes out to all the good parents who are separated from their children, and I wish you all the best in receiving justice.

    Comment by B — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 12:39 pm

  26. Dear Julie,
    I assume you aren’t leaving us now. I’m a bit busy right now, but will give you something when I’m free. Stephen virtually speaks for me anyway on this one. I have already learned women hate being left and not talked too, but men have no other option in this world. For to be indirect with those you love(familiarity breeds contempt) is not a song I wish to sing, and is not a song I wish to hear repeatedly. Mostly all the women I have known suffer this curse, and you’d be wise to get rid of it if you have it. To paraphase the Clash: Should I stay or shoud I go… If I stay there will be trouble and if I go it will be double…
    You are starting to sound like you want all the good things men used to be (tough stubborn Lion-like men that take it on the chin and go down verses change tactics). I’m am not such a man for strangers and acquaintances( especially women), and will only do so for people who are ‘do honourable’ not ‘talk it only'(whether kin or not.)

    Comment by Intrepid — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 1:02 pm

  27. Stephen,

    I am seeing my reflection through this site and I will admit, it is pretty ugly at times. The most important thing I personally will receive is to become a better person. That is something I have noted when I meet males through here. You all seem to be understanding, tolerant and easy-going. Something that I would love to be.

    I know you have worked hard and through times of isolation and probably hatred. I have read some of the stories of what it was like. Today does seem to be different.

    I am getting sick of having to apologise and I am sure you are too.

    Another thing fot me to remember is: When I point at someone else, I have 3 fingers pointing back at me. Oh, the shame.

    Lesson: Think something, but don’t act on it. Go and do other things and then come back to the thought.

    Comment by julie — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 1:27 pm

  28. I have been popping into this site for around 3 years. Originally I was looking for info on men being prejudiced against in the family court for an essay (I am studying law)due to the secrecy of the system I couldn’t actually find much so was looking for mens comments on what happened to them)I do believe there is a serious problem with the family court and hopefully I will be able to do something from within the system once I qualify.obviously the first thing is to expose the injustice and bias and then work for change. however, relating back to the child abuse problem..this is something that everyone should be fighting to overcome. who knows what sex the offender will turn out to be-does it matter? both men and women were involved with these children and both should have been protecting them. the news said the mother had been away for 12 hours prior to finding them. where was she? who was supposed to be looking after them? lot of cases are where the male beats the child but the mother stands by and lets it happen. she is just as culpable.

    Comment by Chrissy — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 2:27 pm

  29. Dear Julie,
    You said:

    The funny thing is that you have all fought for yourselves, lost and then complained

    I’ve tried to tell you many men don’t think of themselves as victims (are you listening, I mean what I say and say what I mean), or wish to call themselves victims(you must stop thinking with a women’s mindset). Men learn from an early stage to choose their fights, if they aren’t off learning people skills too much.
    One reason I left my wife was for the same reason I left my state, they both maxed out on the visa for themselves, but say it is for the kids(a modern, effeminate version of wrapping themselves in the flag). I didn’t waste funds on a lawyer, for once she started playing music chairs with her residence and I checked into things at a parliamentary committee, touring the country(over 10 years ago), I could see what was going on. I have been building ever since, and waiting for others to learn the hard way (more often than not their own choice).

    I could see I could take my son and run, but that would affect his future in many ways (my emotions would be satisfied, but I’m not a person ruled by emotions). It wasn’t my ex that stopped me, for in every way (baring lying and crying at the drop of a hat for strangers) I could out manuver her. I saw the state was my real enemy, and going postie wouldn’t have done anything about this problem.
    Your endless drum beat is work with in the system (brain storm not, women’s one trick pony of work from the inside of some protective body). Get funding from them. It isn’t from them it is from the men, like those on this site, it isn’t government or monopoly money its 60 to 80% male money. Yet the nanny state takes it and dishes it out like dinner. You want to dish out some, and you are surprised we aren’t excited.

    If the state does a good job men say ok, I’ll endure the BS. But the heart strings sales pitches are starting to sound just a little bit over used, don’t you think? These same effeminates have the nerve to call traditional males stubborn and mule headed. These effeminates look in the mirror too much, and stubbornly continue a pace claiming we are stubborn too! It’s grade 4 all over again. Effeminate desires are taking all the western states down (birth rates, over lawyered, social safety cushion, not net, etc).

    “The first generation wants money the second power the thrid art”

    Decline follows after art.

    A good give & take deal can be worked out by each couple(I am married to such a women and am bring up my new boy, yet have not forgotten who took my other one I love).

    Yet men and women need a new frame to deal with at the state level. Some balanced deal that both can live with, or be adjusted with give and take. This can then be sold to both men and women as a new starting point. That I hoped you could build with me, but you must be decisive not flakey. If you change the topic again, or digress one more time I will see that despite your best of intentions you are incapable of keeping your eye on the ball and are out for chit-chat or something else(I have not the time to find out) and there are many an effeminate to chat with and whine with, for their know-it-all mothers have programmed them all too well in the absence of a man who thinks men bring half of the attributes to the table of any relationship.

    The great wars killed off too many men to not have affected the gentic make up and this in turn has affected the social make up of bringing up boys.

    While soldiers bleed draft doggers breed- from “Honor Verses the Amazonian World”

    Comment by Intrepid — Sat 24th June 2006 @ 10:45 pm

  30. Intrepid,

    I hear what you are saying.

    Brainstorming is number 1. I spent yesterday having coffee which turned into a 5 hour discussion. Great! There is no doubt in my mind that we have a great team here. Everyone has something special to give and there is alot of energy, committment and determination.

    It is going to take time as any long-term project will.

    One thing is agreeable and that is the government needs to change things for the FC. But, what? It seems we have laws that are written to be fair and that what parents want is written in law. It is the Judges and lawyers that are at fault in that they are not implementing the laws as they were mean’t. Another factor is that the lawyers are not telling their clients straight away what they should do but are instead delaying important documents which give both parents equal rights up to and through the proceedings.

    Sure, the judges are right in saying proceedings are taking too long but they are making themselves more important than the people they serve. The length should be seen as a deterant and hopefully people would have sorted it out so not to drag it out.
    The lawyers are not giving clients quick enough their rights to even start their own negotiations.

    A nurse who works in the area these twins died said to me, “That is only the tip of the iceburg. You don’t hear of half the cases. We have more rules for people having dogs than we have for people having children” I also added that we don’t have rules for marriages either. There needs to be work with those contemplating marriage, in marriages and in break-ups. And with regards to children. We need to be a whole society that is for both parents and scorns one parent taking all.
    Another tip I received from a few couples that stayed in their marriages and raised their children together who have grown; is the DPB is too accessible for females. They agreed, ‘That if the DPB didn’t exist women would work out their problems with thier men. Give and take.’

    That doesn’t stop women from affairs or the such but it would make a major impact and on government spending.

    Groups of support can grow similar to AA where cheap halls can be used and donations collected to pay costs. This doesn’t need to be a high funded movement where tax payers are assaulted once again. Funding is becoming harder for groups to get because they are not able to show the difference they make with the funding.
    The groups that are getting major funding are raising money themselves. And they can measure their need. I don’t have time to waste with that no more than most people. And besides, we are fighting the sytem, not changing people’s lives to suit the system.

    Overall, we have to get the Government involved in the FC and family welfare.
    We have to help people in the system and those about to take an unusual leap of faith the system will care about them, and;
    We have to change the mindsets of people that are not yet in marriages or with child.

    Comment by julie — Sun 25th June 2006 @ 9:32 am

  31. These children were beyond neglected, they were murdered. If you ignore the treatment they have recieved then you are only condemning them to eventual death. Why would the Kahui family let themselves be branded murderers to protect the incompetence, of a few members?

    Comment by Mark — Tue 27th June 2006 @ 11:43 am

  32. These poor babies died because the ones closest did not give a shit – what has life become???? What happened to protect the safeness of those closest to your heart Macsyne??? At least let people who can sort your crap out know………….prayers and thoughts to the tiny babies.

    Comment by Mary — Tue 27th June 2006 @ 10:11 pm

  33. hey there! i think that the killer of the two twins should be punished. No matter what their excuses are or the sex of the killer. It is unfair to terminate a life, but it aint just one person who was killed, it was two little innocent boys who did no harm to this world. All that they wanted was to be fed, warm and looked after. I have absolutely no idea why the family is protecting the person who did such a crime. How stupid can you be? They just killed two kids and you want to protect them. The people who are protecting them are just as shamless, heartless and cruel as the person who done the crime..

    I hope that they get the man or women who done this and punish them.

    Comment by tiesa — Thu 29th June 2006 @ 3:13 pm

  34. It’s funny how society has a blockhead approach when it comes to dealing with domestic violent issues. Why did the government wait for two babies to die before stepping up to the plate??? We as a society are all responsible. We see violence, we hear violence, it’s time we report violence.

    Comment by Pooky — Thu 29th June 2006 @ 4:24 pm

  35. I saw this site tonight by pure chance. i had googles the tragic deaths of those two little boys…what a terrible thing to happen.
    while i was reading the comments made regarding the family court, i would like to say this.
    i seperated from the father of my four children. i have a protection order against him.
    he does some stupid things at times, granted, but we all make mistakes. our two sons adore their dad, and one of my two daughters wanted to live by him. so i agreed. it did hurt me when i realised that he was probably making a better job of parenting that me, but at least my kids are happy.
    we did not use the family court, we sat and talked it out, with the inclusion of the oldest two, six and four at the time. the youngest boy, he has his dad up on a pedestal, there was no deciding for him.
    i am happy i am one of the few women who can say to the ex he can have the kids. i still have the baby, and i don’t see my kids too much, but i know that they are happy, and so is their father. i’m happy that they are happy. just goes to show, not all women are cast in the same mould!

    Comment by Jay — Sun 2nd July 2006 @ 6:54 pm

  36. Jaqueline, if only we had more parents like you, then ours would surely be a wonderful world.


    Comment by dpex — Sun 2nd July 2006 @ 7:01 pm

  37. A very tragic loss.

    Once again another system failed misserably by the government.

    I put to blame Social Services and there lack thereof to provide our people with adequate and quality social development services.

    That family should have been provided with state housing and funding.

    Shame on everyone for failing, and shame on everyone for jumping on the Marketing Band Wagon.

    Terrible parents to caught up in their own personal social lives.

    Comment by Kane Te Waaka — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 11:55 am

  38. Well Kane, I put the blame on the murderer. I’ve never had a state house and yet that hasn’t caused me to even contemplate murdering a child.
    That family should have used the social service of education and the personal service of looking after their own and of loving and caring for their children.

    Comment by Chrissy — Tue 25th July 2006 @ 12:47 pm

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