MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Feministation of Education

Filed under: Boys / Youth / Education,General,Men's Health — Scrap_The_CSA @ 11:16 am Tue 22nd May 2007

Male-female gap “bad for society”

This article ran in the Dom-Post this morning.

The implications for boys and young men of Professor Chapmans remarks reflect the danger of feminisation of the New Zealand education system and the lack of Male primary teachers.




  1. Interesting article from someone who would know.

    But it was this comment that caught my attention:

    He suggested that perhaps the drive to find equal opportunities for women had gone too far and there was a need to pull back a bit to restore that balance.

    Heresy! I suspect the good professor has already finalised his retirement plans.

    Comment by Rob Case — Tue 22nd May 2007 @ 11:34 am


    See above for comment from Judy Turner and United Future

    Comment by UF — Tue 22nd May 2007 @ 3:15 pm

  3. UF, That is fantastic. I hope other parties read Judy’s media release.

    Comment by julie — Tue 22nd May 2007 @ 3:34 pm

  4. At last it’s being said out loud, by women within ear-shot of other women.
    It’s long overdue and bloody welcome.
    The response will be interesting.

    Comment by Rob Case — Tue 22nd May 2007 @ 4:13 pm

  5. Good on Judy Turner,
    The only thing missing now is a caring and “balanced” media to question Helen on what her goverment intends to do about the obviously sextist situation.
    Step 1;….remove the blinders….

    Comment by xsryder — Tue 22nd May 2007 @ 8:53 pm

  6. It seems the Merry-Go-Round of recognition of what has been said by many for generations

    Some of which are dead

    Some of which are maimed and unsuported like Warren-H and myself

    All of which have been silenced by lack of funding will Julie pratles and inspires the Merry-Go-Round

    And the pontificators support the Merry-Go-Round yet again

    We need an Army to counter the Anti-FAMILY-Brigade NOT Words and sceammes that have in most been tried before

    The most effective was BOTHERING

    The pontificators think its naughty to bring before our Nation, our World, our Woes, our Troubles

    The experinced are not listened to while the pontificators take command of the Newbies and strenghten the Anti-FAMILY-Brigade

    Onward in Coalition with others to Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY** and to PROSECUTE those who damage it – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 7:42 am

  7. Jim,

    I am not stopping you from building an army. You have been doing what you do for 12 years. I cannot be responsible for the last 11. So I will not be responsible for the 1 year I have known you.

    What you and I do are not the same thing. Do you not think there are males who have not been through the FC that deserve support also? And what about THEIR children?

    Should everyone who cares for other people as a job quit because you say you know what’s best?

    Handsonequalparenting as law and policy. Hmm, let’s see. If that was law and policy in everything then situations would come up which we would need to make other laws for and manipulate policies to adjust. then other situations will arise and before you know it … we are back to where we are now. What you need to do is force people to behave the way you want them to. Medication maybe? Well, they are doing that now too.

    Comment by julie — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 9:27 am

  8. Jim,

    Your interest may be the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY**

    My interest is Men’s Rights in general.

    There will be others who read these posts who have different priorities still.

    But we all have one common interest, and that’s the one that keeps bringing all of us back to this site.

    All of our interests are served when the things that matter to us are put out there, before the general public, in the mainstream media. Recognize when this happens.

    You are right to remain sceptical. One headline doesn’t make much of a difference. But lots of headlines will. More sympathetic coverage will. Political parties identifying men’s rights as a viable point of difference will.

    So I’m cheering. I hope to be cheering for the next 10 years.

    Comment by Rob Case — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 9:48 am

  9. Rob,

    Your comment #8 needs some qualification.

    Lots of headlines over mens issues have made bugger all difference. (I have scrapbooks full of them for the last 7 years!)

    Headlines do not engender change. Jim is right that action does.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSa — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 12:34 pm

  10. Scrap,

    I don’t question that action engenders change. Who would?

    But the courage to act, without encouragement or support from others, is a rare thing in most people. Without any clear idea of what it is you are acting for, or against, courage alone is useless.

    There are millions of men who are quietly dissatisfied with their lives. Many of them though, will go along with the popular notion that we are the “bad sex”. The rapists, the violent, the criminal. Oppressors of women. Irresponsible fathers. Molesterers of children.
    These men may well know that they themselves are none of these things, and that none of their friends are either, but they will accept that men are dangerous and in need of containment all the same.

    Why shouldn’t they think this? It’s what they read everyday in the newspaper, and what they see on their TVs whenever they turn them on.

    It is this strangle-hold that the media has on men’s self-image that needs to be changed before large numbers of men will have the courage to act.

    I see it as a vital pre-cursor to real change. That’s why I believe every favourable headline counts.

    And I certainly don’t believe that efforts applied in other directions are pointless. I leave that good work to those who take the trouble to do it.

    Comment by Rob Case — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 1:31 pm


    This was in the Chch Press today, and a number of readers have emailed their support for addressing the issue of Men in NZ adn criticising Labours view. Nothing will change overnight, but the more people read and discuss these issues the faster the public will want and demand an end to the status-quo of policy through a womens perspective only. It is the public that have to be convinced first, politians and policy makers will follow, so on that all publicity propagating this end has got be a good thing.

    Comment by UF — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 4:55 pm

  12. UF,
    Having Judy Turner’s message in Chch newspaper would have helped. I saw part of Campbell Live tonight about our youth and both the male and the female suggested we need men as role models. Even the word feminism was used and the male that said it is from Chch. Maybe he read the article. You are doing a great job.

    Comment by julie — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 8:02 pm

  13. I know I’m not a pontificator, but I also know that because I don’t confine my support to just Jim, his disciples and methods, and instead support ANYONE who advances the interests of men, families and Judicial equality, I will be labelled a pontificator, and quite frankly I don’t care.
    Name calling is a tad childish, especially considering we are supposed to be on the same team.
    I note Jim that you normally start throwing the word “pontificator” around immediately after I comment on this site (check if you don’t beleive me). You know the things I have done and still doing, yet you still imply that I am pontificating. Do you have a problem with me personally? Do you even know what pontificate means? I know of only two people in this world who would fit that description, and one lives in Rome.
    Now the irony….Finally an MP is brave enough to stand up and say what we know and want the public to know, and delivers it in a way that will arguably create more sympathy than a small group of men protesting in residential streets and waving swastikas, yet she and any one who encourages or supports her gets shot down and called pontificators.
    I’m sick to death of reading damning and negative comments on this site about the very people who are trying to advance our cause.
    Come on……we have a lot of supporters out there (Male and female). Instead of putting them down and calling them names because they don’t follow your opinion as if it is the only correct one (pontificate), why not try mutual respect and support.

    Comment by xsryder — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 8:33 pm

  14. It is the public that have to be convinced first, politicians and policy
    1) Cedit needs to go to the Professor Chapman who had the courage to speak up.

    2) Judy Turner, deputy Leader of United Future has also spoken in support. I believe Judy Turner is an honest woman and is motivated by a genuine belief that the the scales have tipped to far in one direction and that this is wrong.

    To quote

    “This Government is so blinkered by its socialist/feminist ideology that it either hasn’t noticed or doesn’t care about the myriad of issues challenging New Zealand blokes,” says Mrs Turner. “This Government is failing men.”

    3) Peter Dunne, the Leader of united future, is the Minister Responsible for Child Support.

    Its time to get focus back onto the feminisation of education . See my next post




    Thats a nice

    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 9:39 pm

  15. Wayne,
    With apologies to Scrap who is attempting to get this thread discussed.

    Its you that has taken the title – It is not I that gave it to you – I am not aware of following your posts that dilegently that I am setting tell-tail patterns.

    Its not normal for Pontificators to walk 1K for others let alone 800K

    You have more than earnt your place in the team that strives to Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY**.

    Pull your head in and get on with it as a respected part of the **NZ-FATHERS-Coalition**

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 8:01 am

  16. xsryder said:
    “…support ANYONE who advances the interests of men…”

    Damn right.
    (saw your comment on the Blogger Choice Site – laughed and laughed and laughed).

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 8:22 am

  17. UF,

    If United Future are serious about representing Men’s Rights, then they will need to match talk with commitment.

    Committing to not enter into any coalition unless a Ministry of Men’s Affairs is established in the first term, with equal funding as Women’s Affairs, is not asking a lot.

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 9:16 am

  18. I have no doubt Judy-T’s heart is in the right place

    I and others challenged her sincere naivety years back and I am first to admit she has grown heaps

    However her leader is a blatant liar re Supporting Men and their Families

    For those who have heard him talk to UoF, and other times he has talked to Men as a group, especially the farce at the Rawene Centre a couple of years back would be very aware the man can’t be trusted

    All are aware he deliberately damages many Men and Women for that matter in his role as Ministry out side cabinet for CS – I think it was HELENS master stoke to destrroy him and its worked.

    Judy-T like Muriel-N has to separate herself from being identified with those who damage our **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY** before I personally will trust either of them

    BOTH seem very good for us Men until you look deeper into their affiliations

    Muriel was exposed by her fast changed attitude to me once I needed the support of Govt to **Equal** Parent my Son

    Judy is exposed by her aligence to Peter

    Onward in Coalition with others to Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY** – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 9:38 am

  19. Rob,

    Judy Turner does a lot more than talk. She is very involved. There are things happening for males that are not on this site. Look to the right of this site and you will find other men’s groups. Read their sites to see what else goes on. Also you can be on an e-mail list to receive Judy’s newsletters.

    BTW, what is this bloggers choice site that you write of to xsryder?

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 9:48 am

  20. Yesterday morning I wrote to STUFFNZ news editor and thanked them for having the courage and compassion to print Judy Turner’s comments in support of nz mensfolk.
    I reckon it’s great that a politician in nz is finally getting out and saying what should have been said by a politician many years ago.

    As for the feminisation of eductaion.
    I’m qualified to start as a Primary school teacher in nz. However, I wouldn’t go near it with a bargepole. Shit pay ( mid 30K, and yes I know money isn’t everything, but try telling that to a bank manager when it comes to mortgage time) for having to put up with staffroom feminists who hate your guts and try to undermine you at every turn, and then the ever present danger of being falsely accused of molesting some kid.
    It sucks, but I’m not going to be the next Peter Ellis.
    I’d rather be where I am and spend my time telling people why I’m not there teaching primary school students.

    By the way, in Korea for the last two years I was the head teacher amongst a staff of 20 teachers in a University backed program teaching 700 + kids a week.
    NZs loss is another places gain.
    I’ve met a few ex pat highly qualified male teachers and they also avoid teaching in nz’z primary school system for the same reasons I’ve expressed here.

    Comment by Stephen — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 10:16 am

  21. Julie,
    Bloggers Choice awards has poling on blog sites by catogory. In a bizzare twist, the Leading blog in the “political” catagory is Feministing (abreviated-F…isting?), a feminist blog, but Angry Arry has romped up the list and is now in second place.
    Check it out at;

    Comment by xsryder — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 10:38 am

  22. My two school aged children are very lucky at the moment. My daughter in first year has a male teacher and my son in second year has a male teacher. Mind you they have only just been employed at the school this year and previously it was all female teachers. This is a small country school of about 70 kids. I am hoping this is the start of more male teachers to come perhaps? I got the feeling though, that when the positions were vacant getting male teachers was high on the priority list to balance things in the school. So schools themselves maybe starting to get the picture too.

    Comment by wendy — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 12:36 pm

  23. I with you on this Wendy.

    My son has a few male teachers in High School and one in particular is standing out big time. Male teachers know how young men work and his accounting teacher goes beyond just being a teacher. I would like to see teachers graded in High School as they do in University level and on gender teaching.

    I haven’t bought teachers gifts for the year since the boys were in primary school but this year I have 4 who will definately be getting gifts.

    The females at schools including the head masters see the boys that are loud and boustrous as the ones that need the most attention. I had to wake them up last year at my sons school that the quiet ones who they think nothing of are the ones that you have to watch out for. Only the male teachers get that, for some reason.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 2:31 pm

  24. I just want to add that my son is the only one in school amongst all of his friends. And some of them are A+ students who could have been the next Prime Minister. Males are dropping out in numbers out of all High Schools. It is exactly how Professor Chapman says. And these boys dropping out are not rowdy nor in trouble with the law type boys. They can already build computers and know everything about software.

    High schools in our area are starting to accomadate the youth by getting them work experience and hopefully jobs to go to. But this shouldn’t be happening this way. They are not all worthy of physical work because many of then are needing intellect jobs to keep them challenged.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 2:40 pm

  25. “For those who have heard him talk to UoF, and other times he has talked to Men as a group, especially the farce at the Rawene Centre a couple of years back would be very aware the man can’t be trusted”

    I acknowledge your reasons for not trusting the man. I mean no disrespect to you if what I am about to say gives that impression.

    He’s a politician.

    They operate in a strange world where promises and assurances aren’t worth the hot air that’s wasted on them. A promise made yesterday will be traded away today for a better position politically tomorrow.

    There is no room for trust when dealing with them.

    They have to be made to believe that it is in their interests to represent our interests.

    I would make no commitment to vote UF in the next election, unless I first saw Peter Dunne (it has to be the party leader) publicly saying on the TV One or TV3 news that he will be supporting a program of Men’s Rights, with at least the same detail as already stated by Judy Turner in the press. And that he will not be part of any coalition unless a Ministry of Men’s Affairs is established in the first term with equal funding as Women’s Affairs.

    Even if he reneges later, such an announcement would be worth something to us now.

    It might even give UF a fighting chance to survive the next election (which I don’t rate highly now).

    That’s my position. If others want the same, it would be good to hear from you.


    Rob Case

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 4:11 pm

  26. Rob,

    Are you for real? I know what you write sounds good but after being here myself for a year, I have found that what people write and what is real is not the same thing.

    You seem like a smart person. Why don’t you write to these politicians and find out for yourself what is going on. I have found that many of them are politicians because they have watched families fall apart for decades. They are so much more onto it than I am. And low and behold Peter Dunne is pro-family. It is as if, they have been anti-feminists for some time. I have written to the law society last year asking for answers and many others but something stops all of these people. I just don’t get it.

    I don’t dare write to Boshier because I am afraid he might have something worthwhile to say. And that will throw me in turmoil about the men’s movement.

    I don’t think politicians can do what you ask. I don’t think they can go on strike nor do I think them dumb. Something else must be up and that is why I look to conspiracy for the answers. Maybe someone has a gun to their heads.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 5:00 pm

  27. Julie,

    I don’t think politicians are dumb either.
    I do know that they are approached, harangued, abused, lobbied and are targets for people wanting all manner of different things on a daily basis.
    No-one with a fixed and unalterable view of the world would last long in such an environment.
    Those that do survive are the ones that know how to be flexible, know how to keep a happy face in dealing with difficult people and know how to negotiate.
    Empathy with others is what they excel at. They will know exactly what you’re on about when you deal with them because they will have already heard it from others before you, and know how to respond without creating a negative impression on you. They want your vote at the next election.
    But they can’t deliver to the voters what the voters expect. It’s impossible, when everyone wants something different. So they have a core set of policy that is most likely to see light of day should they be given the chance. Every policy will be prioritised in terms of feasibilty so that they know what to proceed with and what to abandon when it comes to negotiating with other political parties.
    I admit that no politician has ever told me this, but it is standard practice in business. I have been in management teams and it is par for the course.

    You may think I’m making unrealistic demands of United Future. I shall explain my reasoning in the next post.

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 6:10 pm

  28. There’a an election in about a year’s time. Every political party that wants to survive needs to have some point of difference that makes people want to vote for them, and not someone else.
    Parties actively research public mood and social trends looking for these ‘points of difference’.
    When Judy Turner starts making public announcements about Men’s Rights and the need for a Ministry of Men’s Affairs, you can be sure she’s not doing it without the prior approval of United Future’s management team. They have identified Men’s Rights as a possible vote-getter. It’s not hard to see why. Half the voting populace is male, and Men’s Rights is probably the fastest growing movement in the world right now (though still small). To be the first to catch this rising tide would be hitting the political jack-pot.
    It is too risky an issue still for either of the large parties, but for a small party fighting to survive, risk is something you have to take.
    United Future will be trying to measure the effect of Judy Turner’s announcement on potential voters. They may well be watching sites like this for reaction.

    If men want to be represented politically, they need to respond positively and swiftly to the overtures United Future are making. Then UF will see it as a viable election issue. Remember UF’s primary objective is to clear the 5% of total votes cast – they can afford to alienate female voters. It’s better than political annihilation.

    So in asking for Peter Dunne to publicly state on network news that UF will support Men’s Rights and establish a Ministry of Men’s Affairs, I am asking him to do no more than confirm what Judy Turner has already stated in public.

    It may well be that not enough men respond and UF decide that Men’s Rights isn’t yet viable.
    That would just be our own damn fault.

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 6:41 pm

  29. “And low and behold Peter Dunne is pro-family.”

    Julie, I’m assuming this is a serious statement.

    Tell that to the parents, predominately men, who have been driven to an early grave by the actions of IRD in their administration of the Child Tax Act.

    Tell that to the men who have been in my lounge ready to top themselves because of the draconian actions of IRD “recovering” child tax debt.

    About 70% of “liable parents” (the majority men) are in “debt”. The Act produces outcomes of liability that place about 70% of “liable parents” into “debt”.

    Peter Dunne is Child Support, he’s the Minister responsible for child Tax and leader of United Future.

    He’s a Tui Ad politician.

    Peter Dunne is pro family – YEAH RIGHT

    Political appeasement will not engender change.

    Last comment I’m making on this thread as its lost its way.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 6:42 pm

  30. Dear Scrap,

    You have taken on a mountain. You have taken on a billion dollar dept that the government wants.

    I am with you on this but you must understand you are aksing for an almost miracle.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 7:18 pm

  31. James,

    you’ll need to apply a strategy to compete with the two faced camp you recognise when the child support issues are dwarfed for your supporters recognition of progress from the less male aggressive advocate of Judy Turner.

    I’m viewing parliament from the inside, reading the Hansard and watching debates. I’ve been to two select committee hearings and am making a submission of my own in Decemeber. Parliament is one issue off collapse. It has never been more vulnerable than it is now and no politician would disagree. You can thank Gordon Copeland (UF)for this and the Greens have the balance of power. It would seem that they are using this effectively. But what will the trsade offs be? Well blokes for a start. We are not environmentaly friendly and are likely to suffer at some time in the future a bedroom fart tax. That’s if we are considered a natural part of the bedroom and I don’t think Materia Turei thinks that that is a fact, even to an end that she has deceived everyone about what she received in the J&E select committee on the coc bill from me.
    So this means that your “tactics” will have to reset NZ history to recognise properly men.

    Blokes for our prospective future are stuffed good for wall hanging dust gatherers of the past. So what’s your tactic to impliment the strategy you clearly don’t seem to hold?

    I suggest – you coordinate CYFSWATCH support to isolate Judy Turner as to perform. Get yourself functionally geared with all of your available resource and support to target Peter Dunne and I’ll concentrate on Gordon Copeland. If you don’t act bro we’re out of here.

    What do you think?

    Comment by Benjamin Easton — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 7:24 pm

  32. Dear Scrap,

    You have taken on a mountain. You have taken on a billion dollar dept that the government wants.

    I am with you on this but you must understand you are aksing for an almost miracle.


    I suspect you were addressing this to me.

    I personally don’t want anything more than Men’s Rights in the public domain. Being discussed openly and in everyone’s faces.

    If United Future are going to be the instrument of that, it’s no skin off my nose. If it was the Communist Party making overtures, I’d still respond positively (though I doubt their ability to get the issues public!).

    I’m not, repeat not, urging anyone to vote United Future.

    Comment by Rob Case — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 7:51 pm

  33. Rob,

    You will have noticed that I have been called naive. Well, I am not. Infact I think I am the opposite. I didn’t get a lawyer to take on the Human Rights Commission. I asked for the last 10 years of cases and I read carefully what the Judges said to find the answers. And then I went about finding the policies and the steps required to take them on. I learn’t everything from the net. I did it by myself.

    I can do anything if I put my mind to it. Because I am on the outside, I am not a personal case. This has made me able to discuss issues with many groups.

    You are wrong to say that all politicians are in the place they are for their own agenda or even money or power. Some of them could make more money if they weren’t there.

    I never thought I would be writing or meeting up with these type of people but now that I have; I am absolutely confident that many of them did not choose this as a career but got involved because they care.

    Honest people are the best and there really are honest people in parliament. Just look to the Maori Party. They really care.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 11:09 pm

  34. And Rob, they will not (if they remember why they are there) manipulate for their own benefit. Some of the Labor MPs were going to cross the floor over the ‘No smacking bill’ but stupid (maybe Helen’s toyboys, No way, she is gay) Batman and Robin, being National leader and vice leader bargained without consulting their party.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 11:17 pm

  35. Julie,

    I make no conjecture as to the personal motives of anyone who chooses to be in politics – or any other occupation.
    It seems rather clear to me that there simply is no single motive. We are all different.

    But while every human activity is populated with people of all kinds of motives and personalities, there is no such variety in the means to carrying out a particular job successfully. Every profession develops a recognisable and effective way of getting things done.

    I have outlined the mechanics of politics as I have observed them. They are almost identical to the methods of the commercial world. Political parties are like companies, competing with each other for market share. Their ‘product’ is policy. The currency is votes, rather than money. Politicians are the sales force. Press releases and TV soundbites are the equivalent of advertising and promotions. And we are the customers.

    Wise customers learn how companies operate to avoid getting taken advantage of. I don’t trust politicians because trust is not the appropriate way of thinking when dealing with them. I don’t ‘trust’ salesmen of any stripe. I know what their role is, and what my role as a buyer is.

    So I’m not saying politicians are only motivated by money, power or personal agendas. I don’t know what their motives are, nor do I consider it my business.

    Incidentally, I don’t think you are naive. You say what you believe, and you seem to be struggling to make sense of it all, as I am.

    Rob Case

    Comment by Rob Case — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 12:57 am

  36. Rob,

    You are right in what you say above. I had a positive day yesterday which may explain my optimism.

    And i have probably upset a few people to say what i have. Some are still in the system and it is a painful place to be. There will be an answer and a way.

    Comment by julie — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 7:42 am

  37. Julie,

    Stop trying to advise Men and get on with being a Woman

    Your desire to rescue Men may be admirable to those who want to be rescued

    However what I and I assume most other Men would like is women as friends standing with us

    You can’t walk in our shoes

    You can’t see things from our, if there is such a thing, perspective

    Your mind – wisdom – knowledge – learning – is as different from ours is is your body

    Stand beside us Julie – Postive days – Low days – boring days – is it step 5 – Sorry I have forgotten.

    Onward in Coalition with others to Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY**

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 8:05 am

  38. Jim,

    I gather you want me to be a sounding board only. lol

    Comment by julie — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 9:21 am

  39. A sounding board would suggest shareing ideads for an opinion

    You are still not listening

    You can only give a womens opinion

    If that is required then I would welcome it from you

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 3:34 pm

  40. A sounding board is someone who just listens and says nothing back.

    I have listened to you.

    Comment by julie — Fri 25th May 2007 @ 4:43 pm

  41. 40 confirms you are not listening – It is not possible to just listen without sending a message to a male who is looking at you.

    **Women can’t hear what Men don’t say** is true

    However its not in the way that you more than likely interpret it

    MEN never stop sending messages – Most Women can’t hear even the ones that are spoken – would perhaps give you a clue to what Warren-F or whoever it was was trying to say.

    Ask him – you claim to have a relationship with him and many other Mens Groups.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 8:22 am

  42. Judy Turner said on radio over the split in United Future that she did not think that Gordon Copeland would attract enough interest to effect a change or threaten at the polls. She said the reason was because those to whom he could appeal spent their time not being able to agree and that “she knew them”.

    Judy Turner has spent considerable time reading stories and canvasing the views and circumstnaces of disaffected parents. In the Hansard she champions this group by saying they need a voice where she is able to articulate and they are not.

    She isn’t just talking about those people who can hardly read or right, she is talking about people like “you” and “me”. People who are disaffected have considerable difficulty seeing beyond their own sense of reality which in a greater part is the common denominator of disaffected people.

    Think about it. What is the value of having the “last word”? Who owns that right and why? How much does it matter?

    I write this because it is time to change behaviour in order to protect children not to maintain behaviour in order to protect ones own sense of self or ego. We need to educate ourselves. We need to change our behaviour and we need to cooperate, finding different ways to approach an old problem that simply treats in its own disdain those who are consumed by its hatred.

    Comment by Benjamin Easton — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 11:11 am

  43. Jim,

    We can sort this out very easily. (smile)

    I do hear what you are saying. What you say is right; both with me not listening the way I should (in your opinion) and that women don’t hear what men don’t say.

    The end is this, “I am not going to listen to grown men that way unless they are under 25 or I trust the situation is healthy, not just the male but myself.” From my life experience the line can become blurry and I have known that I don’t listen the way a lover/friend could to ordinary non intimate men for ages. Some males have written their feelings and thoughts on paper for me to understand. But it is not something that should be taken on lightly IMO. If a male or female is vunerable, having the opposite sex acting like a lover would, can be more damaging than helpful. IMO if women do this, it can be misunderstood as “leading them on.”

    That is why I would like to see more male groups around the country to support men. And that is why I prefer to network and pass on clients to men’s groups.

    I know this is not the same for women who are trained in these sorts of areas but I am not a counsellor, nor teacher, nor lawyer, nor psychologist or such. Just a networking/social group for single parents. Not even a group to find lovers.

    Comment by julie — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 12:38 pm

  44. Julie,
    I rest my case

    So Men under 25 who you can manipulate are OK

    Men over 25 who you can’t manuiplulate have got it wrong

    Thanks – Jim

    Comment by JimBailey — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 5:53 pm

  45. Jim, what has happened to you? Have you lost focus of the bigger picture?

    Attacking me and the way I do life is not going to bring you happiness nor your son nor the men’s movement in the long run. I have been honest to say I am an addict (in recovery) My world is not your world. Men in my world are not men like you. Men in my world are responsible for what comes their way just as I am. We don’t move in your circles. Our single parents group is nothing like your hands on equal parenting group. Why would you compare yourself to me and why are you comparing your female wives, lovers and friends to me? Shite, I protest about gays having access to males under the age of 25. What has that got to do with you?

    The guys are leaving you behind. Not the guys who comment but the one’s that have groups like yourself. Some of the guys like Bevan and Scrap and Kerry ad David are going into politics. Others are expanding men’s groups. Why are you not growing with them?

    Are you aware that you can only have a short term leadership by walking over people and running them down. You can’t win hearts and minds by destroying me. You know the older men in the movement and they know you. Don’t you think new people will figure things out for themselves eventually?

    Comment by julie — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 6:41 pm

  46. Jim, I am not coming back to hear you pathetic reply. You are making a joke out of me. The guys moving in think I like this for i keep coming back. I will lose their support and I am not about me on this. I have worked hard for my reputation. I am not giving it up for you. You must be the type of guy that make feminism in the first place.

    Comment by julie — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 7:20 pm

  47. As I have said – I rest my case
    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 7:31 pm

  48. Jim, Gosh, you jumped on before I logged off. How about this. I will bet you $100 dollars that the men moving in are 10 times the man you are. They are not feminists. You are more a feminist than they are.

    Comment by julie — Sat 26th May 2007 @ 7:50 pm

  49. Jim,
    I am sorry for attacking you the way I have. But I feel angry, very angry at what you have written and how you keep writing the same thing but always in a different way. I can’t make you happy but I also can’t ignore you much. I have a low tolerance to this. I have tried to be nice and find common ground to stop this arguing but I feel I am constantly being challenged when I don’t deserve it. I do not manipulate young men. I have no problem the way they are. If anything I fight for their rights and I have been doing this for years.Their right to not be raped or have some tougher, stronger, stauncher man use them or even cut their ears off because they didn’t listen or cut out their tongue because they said something they shouldn’t have or pour petrol over them and light it up. It is a hard, cold, tough world out there and the young men coming up are not the same as the old school men. But then the old school men were treated the same way. You seem to forget how kids were left in cars while their parents drunk in the pubs. You forget what the Maori wardens have done. You forget how parents are not at home when their children finish school and need dinner. You forget how one family in Napier had a brother who bit the ear of a cop and how the judge said the gang was a better family than the real family. You forget how males have made something of themselves from a very tough upbringing.

    I don’t like hard men. I don’t like being treated badly. I do not find that attractive. And there are many men I know who do not need a lover and friendship comes in many forms. I have been on the same road as you. I lost 9 years of my children’s lives. But unlike you, it is not the system at fault. The sytem is fuc**d, yes and they know it. But being inside the system can also bring positve change just like protesting and demanding the system do something from the outside.

    You and these other men do not need me as their lover or friend. Man Alive and churches and feminists and other groups listen to me because I have walked the path to wellness and happiness and I have saved my sons. You have no idea of how many parents don’t care that much but use charity groups to fix their problems. Charity groups should not be doing what parents should be doing. People need to start taking responsibilty. They have to stop themselves from asking more from the Government. They have to stop blaming everyone else. It is the only way to give back people power.

    There are heaps of us moving up the ladder of social work. Unfortunately I don’t like the paper work so I am running my own race. CYFS want us, rehabs want us, the police want us and so do many groups. We are not coming from a diploma or degree or masters. We are coming from experience. Ex gang members are also the new leaders. Things are changing but the past and the present are not going to be the same thing.

    Comment by julie — Sun 27th May 2007 @ 3:52 pm

  50. The trend line seen in

    The Feminization of Education

    and in

    The Third Wave Unmasked

    makes this clear that this is NOT something merely topical or of recent occurrence, but a very long term evolutionary transition of the entire human race.

    Lest you think this was something that was only recently noticed, this is from the famed engineer Nikola Tesla in a Collier’s article by John B. Kennedy in *1926*:

    (Not 1986, or 1996, or 2006, but *1926*!)

    “When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain … We shall be able to communicate with one another instantly, irrespective of distance. Not only this, but through television and telephony we shall see and hear one another as perfectly as though we were face to face, despite intervening distances of thousands of miles; and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket.”

    “We shall be able to witness and hear events–the inauguration of a President, the playing of a world series game, the havoc of an earthquake or the terror of a battle–just as though we were present.”

    “Already motion pictures have been transmitted by wireless over a short distance. Later the distance will be illimitable, and by later I mean only a few years hence.”

    At this point, the famed engineer took a decided turn that nobody probably expected, which touched directly on the issues of the article. Already he senses which gender the connectivity revolution will tip the balance toward…

    “It is clear to any trained observer, and even to the sociologically untrained, that a new attitude … has come over the world … receiving an abrupt stimulus just before and after the World War.”

    “This struggle of the human female toward sex equality will end in a new sex order, with the female as superior. The modern woman, who anticipates in merely superficial phenomena the advancement of her sex, is but a surface symptom of something deeper and more potent fermenting in the bosom of the race.”

    “It is not in the shallow physical imitation of men that women will assert first their equality and later their superiority, but in the awakening of the intellect of women.

    As this is being said, a feeling of deja vu comes across. The scientific and engineering genius is now the white-robed istar, Saruman, holding the crystalline “television” palantir ball in one hand and the lightning-producing staff in the other. But now, he looks out from the parapet upon a vast army of arrayed in the field below:
    “A new power is rising, its victory is at hand.”

    The crowd cheers on
    “The land will be stained with the blood of men.”

    The cheers grow wilder
    “March to victory! Leave none alive!”

    The vast army is whipped up into a cheering frenzy, and he issues his call to battle.

    “TO WAR!”

    Then he speaks quietly to himself

    “There will be no dawn for Men.”
    — adapted from Saruman rally cry in The Two Towers

    Tesla’s actual commentary went on:

    “… the female mind has demonstrated a capacity for all the mental acquirements and achievements of men, and as generations ensue that capacity will be expanded; the average woman will be as well educated as the average man, and then better educated,…”

    The Growing Prevalence of Women in Education, by Field
    (Color graphics showing the inexorable trend from the 1950’s on, and its inevitable outcome, field by field).

    “… for the dormant faculties of her brain will be stimulated to an activity that will be all the more intense and powerful because of centuries of repose. Woman will ignore precedent and startle civilization with their progress.”

    “The acquisition of new fields of endeavor by women, their gradual usurpation of leadership … human civilization [will] draw closer and closer to the [sic] perfect civilization of the bee.”

    Comment by Mark — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 8:46 pm

  51. Mark, this is crap. Women are not going to be like this.

    Comment by julie — Mon 3rd September 2007 @ 9:11 pm

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