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Where to turn?

Filed under: General — Father4Good @ 9:52 pm Mon 14th May 2007

I am father of 2 children of different mothers, and for a few years now – a solo parent. I have been involved in the Family court system for a few years now. I have custody of one of my children (A) and am fighting for more access with the other (B).I guess one of the biggest things getting to me(apart from not seeing (B) much 🙁 ) is the council for child, she is the lawyer for both of my children.
(A)There were some very serious allegations i made against one of the mothers (some of which are now substanstiated) but still the childs Lawyer fought for more access for her, or for it to continue, even when the mother did not seem interested. I was also shocked at how quickly CYFS could dismiss my allegations and the way they conducted their investigations.
(B)On the other hand my other childs mother i feel has used the system/allegations of DV against me, affectively limiting and controling the access i have with our child as a manipulative way to get to me emotionally. I do not feel the lawyer for child is pursueing access for my child(B) the way she has in the other case, Even though i am an active father pushing for more access.
I have in the past at times represented myself and raised these concerns with more than one judge but have always been told i was wrong, one time I told a judge i thought the system was geared around the mothers and was severly repremanded for having such a view and for questioning the court!
Psych reports have been done for both cases which agrred i was a good father, but in ways seem to contridict themselves and i beleave are biased toward the womans side, i daren’t suggest that in court.
All this has at times made me start doubting myself and my role or capability as a father, it has certainly changed my opinion of our justice system! and the people that make a living out of working in and around it. All the Best….


  1. I am a mother dealing with family court, and not against father, against grandparents!
    I find that the whole court system is not simply against fathers but it matters
    mostly who gets in first, who has the best lawyer, most influence and who the
    judge is. There are so many different judges and also it depends on the court,
    ie where it is held. It is so flawed, so slow and so hypocritical and contradictory……
    I think most people dealing with the Family Court would all agree. IT SUCKS.
    Never is it in the BEST INTERESTS of the child or parents to deal with the Family Court of NZ.

    Comment by down with the courts — Mon 14th May 2007 @ 11:03 pm

  2. Father4Good,

    Welcome to FatherHood – You will never have a more important job – Todays Children are traded by most everybody – You as Father have to fob them off to have a hope of doing your most important task well – It will not get easier other than allowing others to stand with you – Even in that only YOU and YOUR style of Fathering is good for your Kids

    There are a growing bunch of good Mums caught in similar troubles in our country, in our world that tears our **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILIES** apart.

    I am in my 12th year of FATHERING this time round and 12th year of activism – I survive by a good relationship with my God and many other Parents

    You are most welcome to be part of that forever growing World-Wide Circle

    MENZ is part of that growing cirlce

    Onward and WELCOME – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 2:20 am

  3. Down with the Courts,

    Sorry I did not see your message till after I posted no2

    Same applies

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 3:23 am

  4. last week I went to my 157th hearing in the corrupt family court trying to get access to my state stolen daughters . Nothing happened , I am going to make an example of a judge or two , dam it they have brought this on themselves , and fairs fair , you know natural justice and all that !!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by dad4justice — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 7:47 am

  5. Down with the Courts,
    Thank you for your reply. I agree with what you said about the hipocricy of our system, In my first dealing with it both the mother and I filed on the same day which seemed to cause alot of confusion.I cant help but think the lawyers try to drag things out to soak up as much legal aid or hard earned $$ as they can, or to allow them to take on more clients, and again you are right about the judges i have had many different ones which i dont think has worked in anyones favour.

    Jim, Thank you very much for your welcome and your inspirational words. I agree it is all very hard on the children and see the effects on them first hand, All i can do is stand up for what i beleave in and be here for my kids.
    Thanks again

    Comment by Father4Good — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 7:49 am

  6. dad4justice, Sorry to hear that!! ive found it hard to handle going to court thinking that a resolve will be made and them delaying it more because they havent done their job properly or someother silly reason, It really does drag on and frustrate me!!
    How do you plan to expose these judges? i would like to expose a few major bubus they’ve made myself. All the best to you and stay safe for your daughters.

    Comment by Father4Good — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 8:00 am

  7. Dad4Justice,

    Stay Strong Bro you are a mainstay in Re-Building many other FAMILIES

    One time in the FC shows you care for your own Kids – 157 proves absolute dedication/determination and confirms a growth in practical knowledge to challenge SPIN which must never be lost for others

    I am honoured to stand with you on the **McKenzie Friend** list and invite all who have taken steps toward **Equal** Parenting their own Kids to join

    Even the newbies can be of great value to the uninitiated handelling FC, CS,WINZ,CYFS. All of which make up the growing **Empire of Injustice** built by generations of NZ-Parliaments to deliberatly tear our FAMILIES apart while stimulating the economy.

    Trading in NZ-KIDS and our anguish.

    Check-out the **McKenzie Coalition**

    Onward in Coalition we will Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY**
    – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 8:09 am

  8. Did you all know my ex – yelled and screamed at me in front of a women judge and women C4C . I left the Courthouse in tears . Does anybody else know a falsely accused father suffering from SIX LIFE TIME PROTECTION ORDERS killing him ?????!!!!! I am going to paint the Christchurch De -Family Courthouse blood red and I don’t care about the f##king consequences , I feel like buying a $2 lt of paint tomo when I get my trivial hand out from the gulag Helun Klark maggot ‘s government !!

    Comment by dad4justice — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 8:46 am

  9. Father4good & down with the courts,
    Jim is absolutely right, it doesn’t get any easier, and despite the implementation of the Care of Children Act 2004, children’s best interests (outcomes) are still not paramount, the courts in most cases don’t consider fatherhood relevant to children, and the courts remain closed and arrogantly confident that no one can do anything about it.
    It matters not which parent gets in first, or if both get in at the same time….once scum bag lawyers are involved, the whole thing becomes a monster out of control, destroying any remaining vestiges of communication between parents and turning them on each other, stealing homes and eating up inheritances, sucking like a pig on the taxpayers teat, and destroying souls in the process.
    Father4good, you should follow what Human Rights lawyer Tony Ellis is doing with regards to a complaint to the United Nations about a similar Family Court case. If Tony Ellis is successful, it may be the start of something huge, because we all know that most FC cases are drawn out for years and that any delay caused by any person connected to the Family Court is a “denial of justice” and setting up situations were “status quo” takes precedence over “the best interests of (outcome for) children”.
    Status quo; A parenting situation achieved by manipulation, false accusation or “abduction”, in blatant disregard for the rights of the child and alienated parent, as set out in United Nations Human Rights Articles. In most cases status quo situations arrived at by these means remain in place for the child’s formative years, unless the situation is contrary to the sitting judges mind-set, I.e.; the abductor is the father.
    The best thing we can do is hassle our local MPs, vote for family friendly policies (don’t get sucked into cash handouts), and get your friends and family to join you when you protest along side others. It is up to all of us to unite and make this an election issue.

    Comment by shadowdad — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 11:26 am

  10. Yes, I would certainly agree that the family court system is certainly not against fathers, but purely in favor of the first to place the protection order. Usually, in my experience, the woman is prepared to resort to dark deeds more readily and men have less time to gather material for a trumped up case, see lawyers, etc, because they are working.
    My personal feeling is that the system could be changed to separate parents where one or both wants the separation. In the present situation, more usually the mother, gets an occupation order on the house and uses this to procrastinate selling relationship property. My solution would be for the court to rent a “naughty room” when one parent calls for separation and finds it hard to get the other to accept this. A protection order would surround each parent so the other parent could have no contact accept through a family court councilor. Each parent would spend half their time in the naughty room house and half their time with the children in the family home and would be prevented from meeting the other parent. The parents would be told of their obligations in not speaking to the children about the separation. If either parent fails to comply, the children would be interviewed to check and the penalty for carrying out this “mental cruelty” would be more time in the “naughty house” than the other parent. Clearly, actual physical violence would result in the more traditional approach to protection orders. This process would continue until the parents could begin to act like adults with the councilor and agree on terms for reconciliation or separation. In the meantime, the parent wishing to separate would undergo education to see what separation is really like in the long run (DVD’s counseling,etc). Each parent would experience the pain of separation from the kids equally until common sense prevailed. My feeling is that there would be a lot less failed marriages because women would find out what fathers go through when they are disconnected form their family and they would try harder at their marriages. The father would see the reality of life trying to run around after kids and work and more greatly appreciate his wife’s problems with a first hand encounter. The children would know that they are only going to be away from each parent for a couple of weeks at a time. The beauty of my solution is that the process continues until both are satisfied with the outcome. Separating parents are not adults in my opinion, so why should we be allowed to make life changing decisions that ruin another person’s life without first experiencing what its like for the. My idea is only an idea, I know, and not suitable for all cases, and will need refinemment, but the key is making BOTH parents suffer disconnection and waiting until they can act like adults and appreciating BOTH parents use the children as emotional footballs. Your comments to my crazy idea are welcome.

    Comment by Mike — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 12:35 pm

  11. Mike,
    Love It
    Onward – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 1:07 pm

  12. Hang in there man.I spent 3 years and 10 grand in the FC trying to get reasonable access to my daughter.Sheer perseverance and stubborness basically outlasted the x.But for me; after being so passionate about it;another 5 years have passed and my feeling is that while it is a bold endeavour and illustrates your love for your offspring; in years to come it actually makes little difference doing it;except for self esteem.It seems more a personal battle between the parents and who is going to win and is more an ego thing;of course doing the best for your kids is extermely important.So if you have the stamina ;hold on and you will get there; and try to spend as little as possible doing it.Ignore any petty claims and issues as it is a waste of money and effort.Good on you.

    Comment by keith — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 2:05 pm

  13. I wish our group could have a say in documetaries about all this. We have many stories just like men’s groups.

    Comment 1 is right. Whoever has the better lawyer wins. Everyone who has spent years in and out of the court system knows this. For goodness sake gansters know this. If you have the money you have a better lawyer. In fact you can have a barrister that is so good they work for themselves and earn a good living. And the judge matters too. There are lots of cases I know of where fathers have already had court proceedings in place before they even tell the wife they are divorcing her. And they get what they want.

    Women who go to a lawyer especially a legal aid worker receive the suggestion of putting orders on the father. I hear it so often. They are almost threatened to do this. I bet I could even get at least 6 women to admit to it because they refused the ‘Ace’ card. They didn’t want to turn agaist the father. But that is not how the FC works. There is a winner and a loser and it is not about the parents but about the lawyers. It is a game.

    And against many, I will say, it does get better. But not while you are fighting.

    Let’s be honest here. If my rights to MY chidren are threatened, I will come out fighting and I would say most parents would do the same.

    Ask yourself …. would you shoot someone who was putting your children in life threatening danger? Or would you stand in front of a gun to save your children?

    That is how serious this is. IMO

    Family Court does not work. What works is normal behaviour of life. If someone wants to fight you, walk away and give them time to sort out themselves. Once they have sorted out themselves sit down and discuss things with them. The parents that do this are the parents that are winning because they act like adults when both are calm.

    You should only be using the FC on the rarest of situations because when you use the FC, you both lose in a sense. Neither side will be truly happy. And niether will the children.

    Comment by julie — Tue 15th May 2007 @ 3:52 pm

  14. Julie,
    I’m not sure if you’ve been in contact with Murray Bacon in recent times, but he and I are very keen to put together a documentary. We both have professional cameras and editing gear.
    There are obviously going to be some issues around how far we go (laws and cost), but I’m sure we can pull this off. If the mainstream media can’t or won’t tell it like it is, then it up to us to tell the story; and wow have we got some stories to tell.
    I can think of several people who would be perfect to interview about thier cases, but it is up to them. No doubt it will be a painful exercise for some, but for others it may be a form of release.
    Good journalism dictates “balance”, meaning a requirement to show both sides of the story (If we can’t get interviews with “the other side”, then we could use Paul Holmes’ “chair of unavailability”. LOL)
    But I don’t think the project will be so much journalism, but rather telling a story, exposing truths and suggesting better options.
    Personally, I don’t think (spin) Dr Boshier would add anything of value, unless of course we do the reality TV thing and have him on a rack with greiving dads having turns on the screws. Now that’s entertainment.
    Get in touch with Murray and suggest to him to hold regular meetings and brain storming sessions.

    Comment by xsryder — Wed 16th May 2007 @ 7:15 pm

  15. Looking fwd to adding Murray-B and others efforts to the growing collection of BOTHERED Stories and Videos at

    See Spin-Dr-Boshier in the headlines again – I wonder how long these Maori Guys will be smiling

    Onward in Coalition – Working with others to Re-Build the **Whole-NATURAL-Biological-FAMILY** – Jim

    Comment by JimBWarrior - HandsOnEqualParent — Wed 16th May 2007 @ 7:42 pm

  16. Boshier is a political puppet , forget that tugger , we make shared parenting the single issue for next government !! Families Commission are run by feminazis , forget them .
    Klark/Key/brafoot and all the other socialists scum must jump into the OFFAL pit, oh yes , only after a good smacking !!

    Comment by dad4justice — Wed 16th May 2007 @ 10:02 pm

  17. Xsryder, Sounds good

    Jim, that link you gave is good. I think what they are doing is a good idea. This part how ever is over the top.

    “The men will come around men and do men things to take them to the next level.

    “It might be giving up the booze, giving up the drugs or violence. We might set up Sky network at 3am and watch the world cup. It’s just blokes being blokes,” he says.

    The women’s groups have pampering days, with massages, makeup sessions, conferences and a chance for women to get their nails done.

    “Most of the women are young, solo mums who want something to do with their time,” Mrs Ngapera says.

    If the youth are in trouble, believe me, it will not be because the solo mums need nail care. LOL

    They will find they also need to give up the booze and the drugs and have anger management sessions.

    But we both know they can’t get funding for this so they spin it just to get in the door.

    Comment by julie — Thu 17th May 2007 @ 7:56 am

  18. xsryder, the documentry idea is something I have been working on also. I have done a bit of research round the legals of it and it may not be all that bad. And even if you can’t get it on regional Tv theres always our lovely internet!

    Comment by wendy — Thu 17th May 2007 @ 12:00 pm

  19. Wendy, excellent to hear what you have bee doing.
    There may actually be a number of others who have the same ideas and asperations, but finding it difficult to get anything off the ground while working alone. I’m sure that betwen all of us we will have the equipment, talent, stories, tenacity and will to produce something that will get the message out in time for the next elections. And yes, if mainstream media aren’t interested, we could go the internet way.
    You can email me directly; [email protected], and perhaps together with Murray we can organise a meeting some time in the near future.

    Comment by xsryder — Thu 17th May 2007 @ 6:40 pm

  20. mate cyfs are dogs with out a leash.i have fought for 7 years. still slugging it out with the fmc. The judges are dumbass trying to be a man who understand women. i sacked my lawyers and i am enjoying doing my own avadavitts and watever. go hard but go smart. remember anything you write on a avidavitt is recorde for all time so say what you want to say and then you can show the kid when she gets bigger showing you try hard. Thats what i am doing.

    Comment by Alfred — Wed 23rd May 2007 @ 1:45 pm

  21. Hi alfred;I agree totally.As fate would be;my parents split when I was about 11.My father then went on a ;I am not the wrong one rampage till in the end I didn’t want to know anything about their problems.I have a file that I have kept all my own FC transactions;accusations at me etc to show my ;now ;10 y.o. girl.But ;I don’t think kids want to be involved in our screwed relationships.For me it has been a matter of letting it all go.Just a thought;is too much energy and cash worth it in the end?My father who is nearly 80 still goes on about my now dead mother and how she did ;said ;this and that;40 years on.

    Comment by keith — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 1:23 pm

  22. Keith,

    There are so many adults that have been through what you have. And screwed up over it. (not sure if you have suffered) It is sad to hear grown-ups talk of how their parents fought through the FC until they were 18 and could no longer fight. And grown ups talk about how their parents played them as a tool until they were 18. I am shocked that parents have done this. The addiction centres hear it all the time.

    It is ironic how your honesty is real for many fathers. I understand now why you have let go. It is ironic how now she (ex) wants you to be a part of your daughters life. From what I have heard form adults going through these fights I think you are a good man for not wanting your child to suffer as you have. But I know it wouldn’t have been easy to make that decision.

    Comment by julie — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 3:01 pm

  23. Hi Julie; thanks.Yes I agree that my position is not unique.My daughter still loves me dearly and vice versa; but she has had to learn ;unfortunately that daddy must not be taken for granted.She is very happy in her new family with her new baby brother from mummy;so that’s good for her;hard to swallow.And yes ;my childhood did immense damage.A wave of suicide attempts affected every family member for a while as the ship was sinking.The ambulance was an occasional visitor to the dysfunctional family.And lots of other shit went down ;so it does leave a nasty wound;but life goes on and hopefully one learns not to repeat some family dynamics.Anyway have a happy day;what is it?onwards and upwards he says.

    Comment by keith — Thu 24th May 2007 @ 5:34 pm

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