Hi All

I thought everyone might be interested to read this discussion I have had with a United future staff member.

Any comments?

Viv Roberts

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From: Vivian Paul Roberts [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2008 9:04 p.m.

This is turning into a very interesting discussion and I wonder how you would feel about me putting all of the discussion below onto a couple of well used websites within the mens movement. There are certainly some in the mens movement who are arguing for your position pretty much as you have outlined, and there are others who feel totally betrayed and outraged by the actions of Peter Dunne as we have talked about. I dont claim to be any kind of leader in the mens movement, in fact there cannot be any such position as getting the mens movement together is like herding cats, however I do I think I can represent the reasonable voice of the mens movement.

I think there are some things that UF could do to gain backing among the mens movement, I think it would go something like this:-
Peter Dunne making a strong statement to the effect that while he did have to go along with the changes that were made he thinks they were quite wrong and that he can see that it will lead to significant problems for many men. – You see the problem with that is that many guys will say that he should have resigned from his position rather than go along with that change if he beleived that.

I am not really aware of the ‘current review’ you mention, where can I read more about that?
-> http://www.taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/index.php?view=590

You may be aware that many in the mens movement have felt so let down by the political process that they have started their own party http://republicans.org.nz/
I am uncertain what to think about that, they asked me to stand locally but I dont really have the time. My feeling is that we dont need another party. I decided several years ago that I would never vote national or labour ever again because they are completely corrupt and Comrade Helens current actions just go to prove that. When Peter Dunne talked about common sense and looking after families he got my vote for 3 terms. I have not made up my mind how I am going to vote this time, but for me to vote UF it will take a very strong statement from Mr Dunne directly about the child support issue. For example, “Family law and child support in its current form is regularly killing men”. (That is in fact the truth)

So interesting discussion, thanks for having it with me so far.

Cheers

Viv Roberts

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Subject: RE: Form submission from website
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:35:13 +1200

Vivian

I am well aware of the issue you speak of. The data-matching that you refer to means that IRD and customs have greater information sharing capability. This is not a change in policy, rather an operational matter that will allow both the IRD and customs better carry out their functions. It still does not mean that fathers with outstanding child support will be stopped at the border – in fact all it does is better identify the problems that exist within the current system.

You must understand that while Peter is Minister of Revenue he is responsible for the operation of IRD. For example while UF does not agree with the current tax regime (as you can see by our tax policy-which is vastly different from the existing tax policy) it is Peter’s responsibility to enforce compliance with the existing regime. The same situation exists with the current child support situation. Peter has worked extremely hard to get the current review underway especially considering the nature of the Govt he is doing it through

I really hope you can understand where we sit on this. I am very disappointed that you think the way you do about our position on this issue – it is extremely discouraging to work hard to put a set of policies together and fight through Govt hurdles to set up the review to have all that effort thrown back in our face.

regards,

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From: Vivian Paul Roberts [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2008 12:43 p.m.

There were some changes to the IRD child support legislation not so long ago led by Mr Dunne that allow IRD to chase men much harder, I think the words he used were “liable parents MUST meet their obligations” – something like that. The truth is that many men are in dire situations which the current law does not recognise, and chasing them harder will only make things worse

I agree that the things you have set out would take the mens movement ahead but the ACTIONS already taken by Mr Dunne speak about 300 times louder than any words you give. The fact you are not aware of these issues underscores the problem.

Cheers

Viv Roberts

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Subject: RE: Form submission from website
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:40:43 +1200

Thanks for your reply Vivian

I do not know what you think Mr Dunne has done or not done in terms of child support, however, as I explained he has instigated a review to make child support fairer and more responsive to the concerns of fathers – this is despite opposition from the Government for such a review – we fought very hard for it.

Our stated policy is to:

Overhaul the child support system so that it is flexible enough to reflect the complexities of raising children when parents are separated and both parents contribute to the care of their children. Calculations may need to consider the income of both the custodial and liable parent, the cost of raising a child and the best way to measure care other than bed nights.

Also, UF has long campaigned for changes in the Family Court including a change in the law to a presumption of shared parenting in custody disputes as we believe it is in the best interests of the child to continue his/her relationship with both parents.

I do not understand the animosity towards UF considering we are probably the only party actually willing to stand up for the men’s movement and we have specific policies that address that.

Other policies include:

Rename and refocus the Ministry of Women’s Affairs to the Ministry of Gender Affairs because the specific needs of both genders co-exist and can only be addressed by recognising the effects that any policy has on both men and women.

Recognise the imperative for fathers to bond with their newborns by an extension of parental leave.

Kind regards,

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From: Vivian Paul Roberts [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2008 11:25 a.m.

Thanks for the response which I did not expect, certainly so quickly. I have voted united future for the last 3 elections, maybe 4 I cant remember that long ago.

I am horrified by Mr Dunnes actions over the child support issue and genuinely believe we will see a significant rise in the number of men committing suicide as a direct result of those changes.
I am a GP in Hastings with experience in mental health and have been following these issues for some time. Men make up almost 3/4 of the suicides and NZs leading suicide researcher Annette Beautrais in Christchurch says that men are 9 times more likely to commit suicide “following relationship breakdown and legal difficulties” than any other time in their life. For that you can read – being ‘done to’ by the family court and child support.
This process kills something like 350 men each year, but I expect this figure will now rise.
I would love to dicuss these issues further with you if you think that might be helpful. As things stand at present my reading of the mens movement is that none of them will ever vote United again because of Mr Dunnes actions over the last year and no amount of promises will turn that around. I would love to be wrong about that.

Cheers

Viv Roberts

> Subject: RE: Form submission from website
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:31:59 +1200

>
> Hi Viv
>
> FYI. In response to your query:
>
> UnitedFuture wants to see changes to the child support system, to look
> at ways in which the system can be made fairer and enable and encourage
> both parents to stay involved in the lives of their children.
>
> UnitedFuture leader and Minister of Revenue Peter Dunne has recently
> ordered a review of the child support scheme to make it more responsive
> to factors such as shared care, the income levels of both parents and
> the costs of raising children.
>
> It is timely to reassess the formula, to ensure that it is flexible
> enough to reflect the complexities of raising children when the parents
> are separated and both parents contribute to the care of their children.
>
> Mr Dunne has asked his policy officials to examine a number of options
> for updating the child support system to deal with these and related
> concerns, and is now awaiting the report.
>
> I hope this answers some of your questions and you can at least be
> assured that something is being done to address your concerns.
>
> Regards,
>