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Men’s Caucus meeting

Filed under: Events — Julie @ 6:09 pm Mon 15th September 2008

This meeting is being held to hear men’s views and men’s needs around domestic violence so to start a men’s refuge.

Held by: Eastern women’s refuge

Place: Marae at MIT University, Otara. (MIT = Manukau Institute of Technology)

Date: 26th September (confirmation to be double checked) Phone: Eastern Women’s refuge on 833 9653 I will also be double checking on Thursday.

Time: 6pm – 7pm Open meeting …. 7pm onwards – men only


  1. Congratulations to Auckland stealing a march on us country kids. It’s about time. Our local refuge is fairly good.

    Please tender my apologies. It’s a bit far away 🙁

    Please also keep me in the loop, I will help where I can.

    Comment by Alastair — Mon 15th September 2008 @ 7:43 pm

  2. Balls – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Mon 15th September 2008 @ 10:12 pm

  3. Is that Basket,soccer,tennis or Rugby you refer to? – Upward – Alastair

    Comment by Alastair — Mon 15th September 2008 @ 11:27 pm

  4. Set – Should there not be a space after each game? – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 16th September 2008 @ 1:40 am

  5. Good point Jim. I don’t think of the spaces, I fill them with opportunities 🙂

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 16th September 2008 @ 1:45 am

  6. This opertunity is for those who suck to Feminism and those spin doctored by the latest motivation technics – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Tue 16th September 2008 @ 2:23 am

  7. Top marks to Eastern Womens Refuge. Clearly they are one of the refuges which are NOT part of the “National Collective of Man-Hating Women’s Refuges”.
    I think we make a big mistake by treating all women as “The Enemy”.

    I know many very skilled women in positions of authority who are desperate for an opportunity to help- (e.g. my sister, who runs the Marlborough Kindergarten Association).

    I have met many refuge staff who are very supportive, especially when the SFST (Warren Heap) had a refuge running.
    The problem we had with that refuge was simply LACK OF RESOURCES. No-one was paid, everything was voluntary, and burnout was the inevitable result.
    These women may have and offer skills we need to get a permanent, sustainable refuge up and running.
    I look forward to this meeting with anticipation.

    Comment by John Brett — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 5:05 pm

  8. Good on you John. I think the best thing from now on with events is to have no allowance for comments.

    So I will close it now. And any relative posts. I will see you there, BTW.

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  9. Well that doesn’t work. I give up. This is just pure embarrassment now. lol

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 6:07 pm

  10. I note SFST (Warren Heap) is being quoted here – I have just got off the phone to Warren and he is not of the view quoted in #7 – Most of you will know he ran the last refuge for 4 years and had well over $30,000 offered to run the show in the last year – In fact when Warren got sick much money had to be given back because the resoure loss was not Money but Men

    Trust members yes – Volunteer Workers No

    There was never any help offered by Eastern Womens Refuge other than a demand or 2 to remove Men from their Refuge

    Warren has difficulty getting on this site for some reason but surely he is by far the best person to be taped for wisdom on this matter rather than him being quoted wrongly – He is well able to speak-/-type for himself and I hope we can get him onto this discussion.

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 6:13 pm

  11. Jim, the thing is that you do this to me all the time. Why do my posts have to be your anti posts?

    Nothing is ever good enough for you, is how I feel.

    John invites people who are spoken of to view things written about them and I too work in the community. It is more than embarrassing.

    It is just a post!

    You should visit this women’s site. She is really nice and supportive of your way of thinking. And she has lots of women writing in to tell her that they are grateful for her words out there. Can’t I just be left to my own way of doing things? I am just one small little ant in this world who couldn’t hurt you guys even if I tried.

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 6:29 pm

  12. Julie,

    Much of what you do is great – I only challenge you when you tell me how I should be – Stop telling me how I should be and there will not be a problem – Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 6:51 pm

  13. Jim, I don’t mean to tell you how to be. I guess I don’t realise when I put my point of view across that I come across that way. You know we are much different face to face. lol

    You don’t have to be anything more or less IMO than you are.

    Soooooo, maybe in future when I post you can just point out the words I use that are telling rather than just speaking and I can change that. Yes????

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 7:11 pm

  14. Deal – I will share off line shortly illustrating my point

    You decide what you want to share on line

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 7:17 pm

  15. Jim,
    Don’t forget that when you point a finger, there are always 3 pointed back at you.

    If others are telling you what to do – have you ever thought they may, just may, have a point.

    Comment by Alastair — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  16. Jim,

    Deal – I will share off line shortly illustrating my point
    You decide what you want to share on line

    Hmm, are you giving me a green card now to post what I want?

    Don’t you think that may be a bit dangerous?

    Comment by julie — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 7:35 pm

  17. Dear Jim and Julie,

    Debating for debating sake is a waste of time.

    I will be in attendance to listen, and invited, perhaps give guidance to what achievement this forum wishes to realistically obtain.

    Kindest Regards
    Paul Catton
    East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
    (09) 271 3020

    Comment by Paul Catton — Wed 17th September 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  18. Friday Noon

    Is this meeting actually ON?
    Was going to attend, bring Jim Bagnall and others.
    Cannot get reply- either from Paul Catton or Women’s Refuge.
    If you are organizing this, let us know Yes or NO Pls.
    Phone me on 021 457397



    Comment by John Brett — Fri 26th September 2008 @ 1:39 pm

  19. There is no meeting tonight.
    Apparently, there was a meeting on Monday night and there is supposedly going to be a further two day hui in the future.
    This is the information that I have got from the Howick Family Violence Unit.

    Kindest Regards
    Paul Catton
    East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
    09 271 3020

    Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 26th September 2008 @ 4:22 pm

  20. Paul-
    Thank you for your phone call.
    Julie- this has been a bit of a stuff-up-
    Did you just get wrong information or did the Refuge want to avoid meeting with us?


    Comment by John Brett — Fri 26th September 2008 @ 5:33 pm

  21. Hi guys, I had to confirm the date and that is why I left the phone number.

    The lady in charge at the refuge had just come back form an International meeting in Canada. All I had was a worker who has been there for a decade or so. It should have been the right information given and there was no intention to keep men away.

    I am so, so, so sorry for the wrong date. I could even had confirmed with other groups. Sorry again. I will try to make it up to you.

    Comment by julie — Fri 26th September 2008 @ 7:08 pm

  22. With regard to my conversation with the Howick Family Violence Unit.
    The Unit leader is a Sergeant named Brett.
    The Eastern Courier puts out a “plod page” and 4 weeks ago was Bretts final editorial on Domestic Violence for the East Auckland community.
    His article consisted of perhaps 15 bullet points directed at recognisiong persons susceptible to Domestic Violence.
    Each bullet point was SHE ***************************.
    When challenged upon this position he apologised and qouted that this discriminatory mistake was based upon time constricture and oversight.
    He then put forward that almost all of the Units activity was because of Male Offending.
    I suggested that perhaps because of his statement in the media, following from many previous similar statements emanating from the System, that lack of Systemic accountability towards males of abuse comitted against them by their female intimate partner falls upon his type of unbalanced statement and in fact further adds complication to addressing Domestic Violence issues as a whole.

    I eagerly await a further statement via similar medium to be issued by the Howick Family Violence Unit addressing the concerns I have raised.

    My Kindest Regards
    Paul Catton
    East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
    (09) 271 3020

    Comment by Paul Catton — Mon 29th September 2008 @ 7:18 pm

  23. Seargeant Brett and his ilk are cunts, they arrest innocent men and have them convicted, i should know, i was one of them, fuck julie too, what would she know, stupid bitch… The fact that there is not an equivalent to Womens Refuge for Men by it’s very nature identifies that the police are corrupt, Millions of Dead Cops baby…

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 10:53 am

  24. Colin, I would be far more interested in wour comments if phrased in a more temperate manner.

    I have seen much of Julies good works, and where she comes from. I suggest you should consider following her example.

    Also noteworthy is that The Womens Refuge was started by women NOT the police. My conversations with local police suggest that if there was a viable place for men, they would support it. This is obtained by reasoned argument, NOT obscenities.

    Also Colin. another very famous man comes from Nazareth. A book containing works by several authors exists. Could I encourage you to study it.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 11:40 am

  25. Don’t forget Paul, those inbred howick community newspapers are funded by much religious advertising – preaching that all non-believers are evil, the types that think themselves holier than the rest of us by means of being tax exempt, fuck religion and fuck the howick police, they could not be any more corrupt than what they already are.. religion and the howick police are just a menace to society..

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 11:40 am

  26. this is how i talk, i was raised in the australian merchant navy, 3 years.. and i personally do not think my comments should raise an issue, water of a ducks back in today’s environment..

    (i was ordinary seaman, departed just before getting to be able body seaman, some real characters, laughs, i can tell you.., long time ago though, the ocean – no place like it, where men are men, aye, aye Alaistair, i will try to tone it down in future as now a bonafide land lubber..)

    My point about Julie is that she is clueless to the Howick Police, they are the most fucking corrupt of all, maybe she is just naieve then, that’s the best i can grant her. Again, Howick police are corrupt and i am just not saying it on the net, i have said it to the howick police on a face to face basis too as well as evidence to prove what i am saying, stay away from them.

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 11:42 am

  27. Funny, My father was in the Merchant Navy (Chief Engineer) – I never heard him speak like that

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 11:46 am

  28. Colin I too find your post number 23 unacceptably vulgar.
    I appreciate Julie’s contribution and find it neither naive or clueless. We all have a lot to learn from her wisdom. I suggest you try.

    Comment by allan Harvey — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 12:35 pm

    I was jarred and shocked by the clear, clean, sweeping sentences … Why did he write like that? I pictured the man as a raging demon, slashing with his pen … denouncing everything… laughing … mocking God, authority … This man was fighting, fighting with words. He was using words as a weapon, using them as one would use a club … I read on and what amazed me was not what he said, but how on earth anybody had the courage to say it. (Quoted from Scruggs, pg. 1)

    [D]emocracy gives [the beatification of mediocrity] a certain appearance of objective and demonstrable truth. The mob man, functioning as citizen, gets a feeling that he is really important to the world – that he is genuinely running things. Out of his maudlin herding after rogues and mountebanks there comes to him a sense of vast and mysterious power–which is what makes archbishops, police sergeants, the grand goblins of the Ku Klux and other such magnificoes happy.

    What could be more disconcerting and overwhelming to a woman posing as everybody’s superior than to find that everybody was laughing at her pretensions? Go Julie, ain’t mob mentality wonderful…

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 12:44 pm

  30. Colin,
    When you point at somebody or thing (Judge them) have a look where the 3 remaining fingers point. (Go on try it)

    Your namesake once said “Do not judge others, unless you wish to be judged by the same standards”

    At this point I can see you do not wish to behave as a man, my comments are like throwing pearls in front of pigs.

    I have no further comment.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 1:12 pm

  31. this is becoming laughable now, way too serious people in cyberville for my liking, good bye..

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 1:13 pm

  32. Sent to the organizer:
    From: John Brett [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2008 8:24 p.m.
    To: [email protected]
    Subject: Men’s Refuge

    Hi Rhonda

    There is a contribution to the website about a proposal for a men’s refuge.


    Our friend Julie of the Single Parents Association has unfortunately got the dates a little wrong!

    My interest, and that of some other men is that:

    1 We have a small, self funded men’s refuge running now, by Paul Catton.

    2 We did have a larger refuge, run by the “Separated Fathers Support Trust” of which I was a trustee. It did attract funds, but ended when the chief organizer Warren Heap became too ill.

    3 We have other services assisting (mainly) men, such as Menscentre, which provides support and assistance to parents going through seperation, and “Project reunion” which is privately funded, and seeks to re-unite children with separated parents.

    4 “McKenzie friends” or Court “Lay Advocates” who assist (mainly) men to self-represent in Court, and achieve far higher sucess rates that those who utilize Lawyers.

    The bottom line for ALL men’s support organizations, is that CHILDREN DESERVE TWO LOVING PARENTS.

    We have NO TOLERANCE for domestic violence, no matter whether it is from a male or a female.

    We also have little tolerance for false allegations of violence, or sexual abuse, as a tool to seperate parents from children- most of us have experience as the victim of such allegations.

    We recognise that some women ARE victims of domestic violence,

    As men feel as protective of those women as we would of our own family, mothers, wives, partners, daughters.

    I felt that had we been able to attend a meeting, we might have discovered common ground, and possibly our experience might have been of assistance if you were actually intending to start a Men’s Refuge.

    Kind regards


    John Brett

    Comment by John Brett — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 2:42 pm

  33. The reply received just now:
    Kia Ora John,

    Thanks for your mail.

    Our Men’s Caucus has now been initiated and we are pleased to report that we have a team of 20 strong tane, who tautoko the principles of Womens Refuge and the mahi we undertake. These men are a mixture of statutory and non statutory employees, who all have a passion and comprehensive knowledge of social change and are willing to take responsibility for their role under the umbrella of our Refuge.

    The direction that Men’s Caucus will take, is at their determination, so I cannot answer as to whether they deem it appropriate to initiate a Men’s Refuge? After their upcoming wananga, they will make their recommendations clear to our collective and we will go from there.

    As you are probably aware, Womens Refuge is a service provider for women and children suffering the effects of domestic violence. Our analysis regarding domestic violence is based on years of research in the field and experience in working with families (including men) to support them all to a violence free lifestyle. As a refuge we are committed to ensuring that all people, particularly within Counties Manukau, are afforded the right to live free from fear of violence in all its forms and as determined under the DV Act.

    I had some limited experience with the Refuge previously operated by Mr Heap.

    I have forwarded your mail to Dr Leland Ruwhiu, who facilitated the first Men’s hui, and whom is consulting with me in regards to the upcoming wananga for men.

    I would be happy to meet with you to discuss the services you provide through your service. You can contact me with a time that might be convenient, if this is suitable.

    Ma te wa,

    Rhonda Cox-Nissen

    Operations Manager

    Eastern Women’s Refuge Inc

    Phone: (09) 576-6551

    Fax: (09) 576-4923

    Mobile: 027 470 9671

    [email protected]

    Are there any “Tane” (or Wahine” who want to “Tautoke” with this?

    Comment by John Brett — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 2:44 pm

  34. I have always said “The problem of Family violence is best solved by both genders working together”

    This is the best news yet. I hope it all happens. Please keep me in the loop. My email is far from unknown in Auckland.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 2:54 pm

  35. I have replied as follows:
    Dear Rhonda

    Thank you for your reply.
    1 I believe that our people are abhorrent to working in the sexist environment that you portray.
    We regard women and men as equals, not as protagonists, and our priorities are for the welfare of the children involved.

    2 All of our people work WITHOUT PAY, OUT OF PASSION for what they do.
    Your staff, and your Men’s Caucus, all appear to be paid for what they do.

    I believe that these two issues create a cultural divide, which would require a major effort on your part to bridge, before there could be any common ground.

    I believe that the problem is that:
    We are working out of passion, working for THE FAMILIES involved,
    You are on the Government payroll, working for the politically acceptable victims.

    I have posted this correspondence to the http://www.menz, website, in case anyone else wishes to contact you.

    John Brett

    Comment by John Brett — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 3:12 pm

  36. Its not about DV its about the money.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 3:33 pm

  37. We do normally refer to “The Refuge Industry” Here is proof.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 4:28 pm

  38. The funny thing is that the best thing that happened to Wiatakere is when John Tamihere was sacked from his left wing political position and become head of Waitakere Maori trust.

    He shut it down. No information to come out. None, zip.

    They figured it out and now they move. They want to include all the white men’s groups but dare I say it, “This just might be too dangerous to be online”.

    Let’s not ruin their work.

    Scrap is right. It is all about money. You don’t know what the Pacific Islanders have done. It is all hush hush too. We are all a team with them. Patriotism is what we need to do to survive not a divide.

    And Mr. Nazareth, if you have a problem with me e-mail me. There is no need for us to be against each other if you are here. I have been in this for 2 and half years and I am learning on the way.

    Hey, thanx guys for your kind words.

    Comment by julie — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 4:30 pm

  39. okay, heres a hug julie.. (you get the police using excessive force without repercussion and it sets a bad example, i do not wish to follow in their foot steps, so i had my jog this afternoon and i am a better man for it, endorphins are the way)

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 4:35 pm

  40. Hi Julie,
    I had more of a problem with Mr Nazareth. What I wrote is exactly as I felt. Real men are protective towards ladies.

    My X is a PI (Think she has gone back there, and still to close 🙂

    I have seen what their trusts have done in little ole Wanganui. A trust operating for the right reasons needs no recognition.

    However I do believe we have more to gain than loose by supporting (I assume thats what she means) Rhonda. I can’t get to Auckland anyway, so I have nothing to loose and quite possibly everything to gain.

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 4:44 pm

  41. Despite all the injustice we have endured, deep down we know that the majority of women are good. I would count julie in this group, only by working with people who have the health of the family. As their priority will men stop this situation. It is only the mad psycho women who are causing us all this grief

    Comment by martin swash — Tue 30th September 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  42. attn allan, re: #28

    my post under # 23 with the word Cunt (IPA:/k?nt/)
    the Macquarie Dictionary of Australian English defines it as “a despicable man”.

    the definition of dispicable from
    Adj. 1. despicable – “a slimy little liar”

    Comment by Colin of Nazareth — Wed 1st October 2008 @ 10:33 am

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