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That old chestnut

Filed under: Child Support — uktuatara @ 12:40 am Wed 18th June 2008

First post, I’ll try to be brief …

As I see from reading through the wealth of information available here.  I have a realistic view of what can and can’t happen when a loving Dad who seeks 50/50 care of his beautiful children, tries to review how much child support is due from him.

However; it’s late, and I can’t sleep, and I know there’s many people here who know the same truth, that some things in this life aren’t fair.  So excuse me for venting.

I am currently negotiating a full 50% share of nights and days caring for my two gems, Louis (5.8) and Elliot (2.5).  At every turn I find roadblocks to enabling me to care for my two sons.

IRD: We’re very sorry sir, but there’s nothing we can do, someone has to pay the Crown for the DPB she’s claiming.  Even if she chose not to claim, we’ll make her claim. Pity though.

WINZ: Yeah good one, you really think we can help you, even if you didn’t earn what you earn, she already claims DPB for your two young fellas.  Pity though.

My only hope, is to negotiate with my ex-wife that it’s in the boys best interests that she seeks work, rather than rely on DPB and the Child Support I have faithfully paid every month for the last three years.

Next stop Administrative Review … because unfortunately the cost of setting up house again is getting the best of me.

Second stop Full Custody … if I’m going to see them for half the time and still have to pay Child Support, why not have them all the time and put that money into an account for them?

Nite all, thanks for listening.

36 Responses to “That old chestnut”

  1. allan Harvey says:

    There is huge reasons why your step two is bad. Kids need both parents. They need you and her involved in their lives. Parenting isn’t either or like WINZ’s rules.
    Yes you can get 50:50 care, that doesn’t mean you should stop meeting your kids expenses. Yes she should work, that is a good example for children.
    Yes our Child support system is dumb, the aussies are experimenting with something that may be better. Jim Bailey is a good example that you can hit your head up againbst WINZ for years and years and years. They are an imovable brick wall so strategise around them. There is no way through that I know of.
    Scrap or I can give you some poiunters on Child Support but there are few loopholes in their brick walls either.
    Allan you can e-mail me at allan@uof.org.nz

  2. Jim Bailey says:

    Firstly – Thanks to Allan for honouring my frustrations

    Secondly – My frustrations are far from eased – However I have learnt some good stuff and made some good friends that have eased the way over the last 13 years – My biggest frustration right now is the fact that the state has taken ALL I have and caused much debt yet given my Sons Mother ALL the support she needs and of course she now has all the say where the mighty $ is concerned – My Son only has a Father in time – I am left with little say in matters needing money – No doubt the plan of NZLaw and Social Policy – Anyway more info 9on the E-group website

    Onward

    Ration Shed – Jim

  3. Scrap_The_CSA says:

    IRD: We’re very sorry sir, but there’s nothing we can do, someone has to pay the Crown for the DPB she’s claiming

    The notion of benifit recovery is nothing more than a rort to screw money out of dads.

    We all pay taxes and those taxes pay for benifits so why are we taxed twice!!

    Regards

    Scrap

  4. Bevan Berg says:

    It all comes down to cowshit and broken law. I would say bullshit, but it would be an insult to the half of the animals on this earth who are not responsible for this mess.

  5. uktuatara says:

    Allan, you’re quite right, the boys do need both parents. When I say full custody I meant to say I have the majority of the time with the boys, and their mother has the same amount as I now do.

    Financially, I would be no worse off. But could see the boys more often.

    And yes, I will always cover any of the boys shared expenses, I simply don;t see any accountability for money I pass on as Child Support. If their mother would agree to not claim DPB or CS, then I’d be a lot happier.

    I am currently writing up my Administrative Review Letter, and points glady received. Allan, I’ll drop you an email.

  6. Bruce says:

    With some trepidation and not really expecting a result I appled to inland revenue for a review based on substantially equal care, 147+ nights.
    I filled in the calendar with the nights that children are in my care, each Wednesday, pick up from school, drop of the next morning, every 2nd weekend, pick up from school on Friday, drop back on Monday am,half the school holidays and public holidays. Period covered of actual nights was was 4 months with the rest projected forward.
    I wrote a polite letter explaining that there mother refused to supply clothes or allow children to bring toys etc for when the children were in my care, that I had applied for shared care in the courts but 12 months later still had not been able to get to court. I also enclosed reciepts for the $600 dollars I had spent on clothing, bedding etc for the children over the previous year
    Of course she objected but to my surprise they granted my request, it took 3 months but my child support has dropped from 1800 a month to $1015 with the credits for over payment for the 3 months. This month for the first time I have had spare money to spend on the kids.
    Nearly 18 months and still can not get a hearing and of course the aggro is even worse now but at least I will be able to pay the lawyer and she will not even let me have the kids for 1 extra night now, so i expect that i will lose when she applies for a review next time round

    I have to admit that every dealing I had with IRD they seemed to be helpful, I ws lucky that I did hit on a guy that had been thru the mill himself working at child support on one call. After the bad press I even went as far as to compliment and thank the staff. They even found a tax refund from 3 years before that I was due.

  7. Paul Catton says:

    Dear Bruce,

    substantially equal care, 147+ nights.

    Substantially equal care would be 182.5 nights (183 per leap year).
    I ignore defined terms under the Legislation purposefully.
    However that is a slight digression.
    Utilising the formula you have given being based on your 147 nights and had an initial annual assesment towards you of $1800 x 12 being $21,600 pro rata 218 x $99.08 per day whilst out of your care.
    That is the Heads side of the coin.
    You have provided no figure that represents an assesed financial contibution by the mother to you.
    Mathematically you ex partner should have been likewise assessed to provide you upon same formula of 147 x $99.08 per whilst out of her care thus being $14,564 and the deficit is $7036 equating to $586.33 per month which should be your liability.
    Yet it continues with these same arguments that the revenue collected by Inland Revenue Child Support is not equitable, neither just nor fair.
    We will now refer back to Law making and Legislation for challenge upon what can only be described as idocy by Parliamentarians in passing the Legislation.

    Ultra vires describes activities of officials within an organization or polity that fall outside the constitutional or statutory authority of those officials.
    Ultra vires gives a legal justification for the forced cessation of such action, which might be enforced for the people with the support of a decision of the judiciary, in a case of judicial review. A violation of rights by an official would be ultra vires because a (constitutional) right is a restriction on the powers of government, and therefore that official would be exercising powers he doesn’t have.
    When an official act is unconstitutional that act is null and void, and the nullification is ab initio, that is, from inception, not from the date of the finding. It was never “law”, even though, if it had been a statute or statutory provision, it might have been adopted according to the procedures for adopting legislation.
    Sometimes the problem is not that a statute is unconstitutional, but the application of it is, on a particular occasion, and a court may decide that while there are ways it could be applied that are constitutional, that instance was not allowed or legitimate. In such a case, only the application may be ruled unconstitutional.

    In plain terms, what I describe within this argument is that IRD continually say to you is “Pay up”, You say “Why?”, They say “Its the Law”, You should then make application for Departure requesting definition of Law and Process rather than just a accepting the broad interpretation and application because that was how the original Legislation was compiled.
    Define Equal: refer to your dictionaries
    If equality is status quo, equilibrium is established and thus any punitive fiducial extraction by the State would then overide the state of equality,

    Law and its application has been defined by many a Lawyer and Judge upon ability to provide foremost definition to the “letter” of law.

    I am somewhat rather elated but then saddened to see Rosie, Wendy and many other female partners registering their viewpoints upon this subject as ultimately this scenario affects them being partnered to future Conentration Camp internees.
    It is a difficult subject to negotiate in the mindset of the general public the issues of Child Support as this unaffected general public have been brainwashed into “Deadbeat Dad Mentality” by serving Politicians.
    In my opinion a completely seperate constructive lobbyist forum handling complaint and crticism needs to be set up to deal with this issue as it no longer a peripheral issue within Menz and thus requires leadership, strategy implementation and reporting to provide the traction into redressing the serious financial hardship faced by many
    Perhaps,with James (Scrap) in Wellington and perhaps Mark in Auckland they may be the plate steppers and would get the ball rolling with your support.

    I now regret that my involvement with the High Court and IRD didn’t have focus on equal parenting aspects associated within the intracies of the case forwarded for opinion.

    I look forward to retrospective comment from firstly Bruce, regarding his circumstance and then from the readers into proactively challenging IRD in unison rather than singularly being fiducially mutilated.

    Kindest Regards
    Paul Catton
    East Auckland Refuge for Men and Families
    (09) 940 6236

  8. Jim Bailey says:

    Gentlemen,

    It seems to me some of us have moved to seeing a bigger picture and some are still stuck in the nitty gritty of what bothers us in our attempts to Father our very own children, Men-Tor our local Children, and be effective politically – Those just being confronted those frustrations aside – Don’t we all need to move on to be effective? – I say this knowing all to well some of my failings and hereby apologise for leading the odd one astray in my early years.

    James has moved on,
    Think of this
    WINZ: We’re very sorry Jim Bailey (WINZ have not yet called me Sir), but there’s nothing we can do, YOU ARE NOT ENTITALED to the payment for which you ask.
    What is being said here is that Men who have X’s on the DPB are not entitled to FATHER their own Children.
    Is this far different from the frustrations and truths you share in no 3 above?

    Bevan has moved on

    Most others have moved on – However we need to unify in the bigger picture to gain momentum for change – Sticking with the nitty gritty is a bit like my understanding of the Don Quijote style or even perhaps Ninja turtle against Atom Bomb

    We desperately need to move on. In the bigger picture we may well be able to unify and bring sense to that that currently destroys our Families

    Hoping
    Ration Shed – Jim

  9. whanga says:

    Yeah Bruce I cannot actually understand your “situation” and I do not think Paul can either.
    So you have 147 nights a year.How much is the mother of the children paying you every month?
    The same you are paying her?
    If not why not?
    Please let us know the name of this case officer who listens to people and is fair.
    I have had 39 IRD case officers now in the last 8 years.
    None of them goes close to fitting that description.

  10. Bruce says:

    Whanga. I have 147 nights, was offerred the chance to claim CS from the ex but stupid me didn’t take it as I thought it would only aggravate matters further. She is only on the DBP and working parttime(not including the cash jobs) so I suppose the most she would pay would be $10 or so a week.Sorry I never kept the name of the officers I dealt with at IRD
    Paul. I take your point re the true meaning of equal but perhaps selfishly I ws fighting my fight first, one step at a time.
    Update: Ex tried to plan a trip in secrete to Australia, first I knew of was when I recieved a call from counsellor asking why was I refusing permission.
    Have been attending counselling for last two weeks, not yet completed, just recieved call from Lawyer, Without notice application filed this afternoon to take children for the trip. She refuses to give me the same opportunity or return the childrens passports which I hold on their return.
    Councillor has expressed concern that ex has apersonality disorder and needs to be assessed but says she can not include this in her report to the court. If I apply again I am the bad guy, if I refuse the trip I am the bad guy in my Kids eyes.
    Did I mention that she changed the kids schools without consulting me

  11. whanga says:

    I will try to help you!!
    What she is earning and whether or not she is on the DPB is completely irrelevant in the law.It is her choice not to be working in fulltime employment.
    It is what she could be earning if she worked 40 hours a week in a job which she could possibly do with her qualifications and experience.
    With the job market not so bad at present she could presumably get $40,000 a year maybe much more.
    So you should be getting at least $150 a week from her.
    bet your “friendly and helpful”IRD officer did not tell you that!
    You can backdate a claim in some circumstances but at least you can claim from now.
    As for inflaming things surely you would only be doing the same as being done to you??
    As for the trip to Aussie get a CAPPS order.
    As for the school change very little you can do now but what she has done is illegal under the Guardianship Act.You can win if you fight it but think of the kids ay?
    Isn`t life great

  12. martin swash says:

    We need a Fathers For Justice Campaign in NZ, a peaceful, but distruptive, non serious campaign that draws attention to our plight. Sitting around moaning and trying to be second rate mothers is never going to achieve anything. The spies watching this site can go to hell, they will not be able to stop it

  13. whanga says:

    Spies?
    I was wondering that myself Martin.396 visitors in the last 24 hours but no comments!
    I am in for such a campaign.Just need to lose a kilo or 2 to get into my old Superman outfit then watch me go.

  14. Martin Swash says:

    In the USA and England things are happening slowly, but in NZ, womens’ groups are gaining the upper hand more and more, by painting men as abusers and batterers, when in reality most of the accusations are just lies to get better divorce deals. To counter this we must get some media coverage, we need someone connected with media to do this

    Haha Whanga, i am trying to picture Superman and Spiderman with beer bellies !

    But seriously, this is what is required in NZ ! Not Fathers’ groups trying to be mothers, or threatening judges (although all of these are very useful in our fight). To change things, all this crap must be made aware to the great Kiwi public, and how we are suffering because of the injustice. Fathers’ groups will have already been infiltrated by the government, and the average Kiwi Dad is not naturally a protestor, but NOTHING IS EVER GOING TO CHANGE IF IT GOES ON LIKE THIS.

  15. xsryder says:

    Martin and group,
    I totally agree that we need to sort out our act and get a serious campaign going. A meeting was held at my place in Hamilton over the weekend, and although our primary focus was psych reports and complaints about psych reports (General Boshiers beloved Practice Note), we also discussed strategies in general.
    Hans has already posted his comments about the cerimonial burning of Court Orders in Hamilton in July, but we also discussed the possibilty of another Walk to Wellington. There will be an attempt to get the Families Commissioner to broker a meeting between Boshier and a delegation of fathers before the elections. Last time the Families Commissioner attempted to broker such a meeting, Boshier refused to attend (despite meeting with women’s groups), and there was publicity given to his refusal to meet with fathers. This time however, there is the suggestion that the delegation walk to Wellington, with the surrounding publicity making it more difficult for Boshier to refuse, and if he does refuse, the publicity might be even more powerful. With the meeting and suggested Walk planned to take place in the weeks leading up to the elections, the delegations placards could include references to the anti-smacking bill and electoral finance act, potentially drawing in other supporters to join the Walk. Placards could also include references to current misleading domestic violence campaigns that ignore research, demonise men and give the impression that all domestic violence is perpetrated by European men and women are never violent.
    For those of you who recall my walk from Hamilton to Wellington in 2006, it took 3 weeks pushing a pram, and although I walked alone, I recieved awesome support from the public.
    I have offered to walk some if not all of the way again, but I’ll only go if there are half a dozen or more others.
    So there’s the challenge…are there enough men who can devote three weeks of thier lives towards such a mission?

  16. Martin Swash says:

    The pram symbolism is brilliant, dressing as Superman etc would be great idea too.

    But at the end of the day, marches, walks will not CHANGE anything, Kiwi Dads must do something like Fathers 4 Justice , create challenges and annoyances for the policians that attract publicity without any violence. But being snubbed by Boshier would be very very powerful though !

  17. xsryder says:

    Yes Martin, I agree that “marches, walks will not CHANGE anything”, but the same could be said for any single lobbying activity. However, if the walk is part of a wider campaign that includes meetings with the Families Commissioner (and Boshier if he turns up), meetings with supportive MPs along the way and in Wellington and other activities conducted simultaniously, the impact would be limited only by our ability to pull it together.
    As we speak there are letters being written to Boshier, Judicial Conduct Commissioner, Psych Board, Families Commissioner, MPs and others.
    The Republican Party is holding a meeting in Hamilton in July, after which a ceremonial Court Order burning will take place. There is an opportunity for media attention, because fire and destroying court documents would be great ‘spectacle’, which seems to be a prerequisite for media coverage. The ceremonial burning of COs could be carried out simultaneously in any other city, and continue to be a regular and growing event leading up to the elections. Video clips of the events could be put on You-Tube, and photos emailed to F4J in UK. There is a possibility therefore that F4J might adopt the same strategy, even as a short term effort to support us, which would increase the chances of media coverage both here and abroad in the run-up to the elections.
    There was also the suggestion that walkers pass by local Courts on the way to Wellington and stand outside blowing whistles; the idea being that they are ‘blowing the whistle on the Family Court’. It is my understanding that whistles have already been a part of such lobbying, but being such a good idea, it should become a feature of all protest action, along with the burning of COs.
    The timing of the walk will also be a crucial aspect in determining impact, and final planning would have to wait for the announcement of an election date.
    I note that unlike my walk, most hikois in New Zealand are transported from city to city, rather than walking. This doesn’t seem to adversely affect the integrity and impact of the walk, and greatly reduces the time required to complete the walk, while allowing walkers to spend more time in city centres talking with locals and conducting other activities. It is also possible that many more people could be involved if the walk was condensed into a shorter time frame, or were only able to be involved in the last day or few days of the walk.
    Inclusion of a support vehicle; whether to walk or be transported between cities; whether to take tents, arrange billets in advance or stay in back-packers; route and starting point; communications; minimum objective; spokesperson; return journey; these are the kinds of issues that need to be discussed by those considering walking.
    My last comment is; I will always see my walk as the greatest thing I ever did, and one day my son will be old enough to understand why I did it and appreciate the significance. I believe that by undertaking such a mission, I was not just sending a message to the government and FC system, but reaching out to my son. For those of you who have limited or no contact with your children, here is an opportunity for you to reach out to them……..

  18. whanga says:

    Yeah mate I like this idea.
    Northernmost Family Court is I think Whangerei so lets start there.Would take say a week to go by car/van and get to Wellington
    I have a big house in Whangaparaoa where we can stay overnight then head up to Whangerei and back then stay again,have some major planning and strategising,banner making then go to North Shore,Henderson,Auck Central,Manakau,Hamilton and onwards.
    Blow lots of whistles and get some publicity.
    I really get your thing about reaching out to your son
    Lets start a new thread about his.This is real action and it will be 3 years before another election.
    Even if we get issues discussed by politicians,media etc we will have done well

  19. Martin Swash says:

    I would be willing to donate some money to this !

  20. Jim Bailey says:

    YO! Me heart beats again

  21. xsryder says:

    Hey Jim, I have to admit that my heart is going hard out. I’ve been looking at the photos of my walk, and the prospect of repeating it is quite exciting. I’ll upload some photos to my MySpace page as an encouragement to potential walkers.
    Perhaps if we could get enough donations to cover your costs, you could provide your van as a support vehicle…just a thought.

  22. xsryder says:

    You can find pictures of my last walk here;
    http://xsryder.spaces.live.com

  23. Jim Bailey says:

    Northern most

    Kaitaia Family Court
    Redan Road
    PO Box 30
    KAITAIA
    Tel: (09) 408 9060
    Fax: (09) 408 9061
    Alternatively, contact the Whangarei Family Court

    WOW – Jim Bagnall and I did most of the Family Courts in the North Island years back – The provinces gave us a good hearing, much encouragement and heaps of media – The media often being the first on the spot

    Today I see the Family Court as the least resistant to my attemps to HandsOnEqualParent my Son Javan now 12 – WINZ have proved to be far more destructive than ever the Family Court was

    Anyway great to see it all happen again – I will be as supportive as poss

    Onward

    Ration Shed – Jim

  24. Jim Bailey says:

    Oh by the way – I was notified today that Minister Ruth Dyson has begun a Ministerial Enquirey at WINZ Birkenhead in responce to my resent letter to her as will follow below –

  25. Jim Bailey says:

    From: Jim Bailey [mailto:jimbwarrior@xtra.co.nz]
    Sent: Friday, 6 June 2008 5:25 p.m.
    To: MP – Minister Ruth Dyson
    Cc: Colleen Sears – NZ – North Shore City – WINZ; Pauls News; Simon Collins; Rod Hooker – NZ – Auckland
    Subject: 8 years of abuse from WINZ – Birkenhead – resulted in me loosing it a bit today – Clients 323-170-397 and Son 75-058-829

    MP — Minister Ruth Dyson
    CC, Case worker — Colleen Sears
    CC, Lawyer — Rod Hooker
    CC, NZHerald — Simon Collins
    CC, Pauls News — MENZ and other Support Groups

    Today, Friday 6June08 at 1200 I had an appointment with my caseworker Colleen Sears.

    Within minutes of our pleasantries she began to take away what dollars she could from me.

    I began to challenge what she was up to as to take anything away from me will drive me further into debt, make it more difficult to Father my Son, more dependant on FoodBanks and threaten the small amount of healing I have had. Colleen Sears is well aware of my predicament having administered my dealings with WINZ for many years and never once given me any help with Fathering my Son Javan yet being well aware of my health troubles.

    I wish to make it clear that this is not a personal attack on Colleen who I believe has done her best within the legislation as she knows it.

    However I will draw to your attention another case worker who has made My Sons and my life difficult many times — Her name is Grace Erwin

    Grace while hiding behind a junior caseworker conveniently forgot that there was legislation to separate me from my Taxi business so that I could get the healing necessary in year 2000 and be supported by WINZ — I could of let the 2 men driving for me continue the business with a little admin input from myself. The business was not at the point where it could support me without me working in it — Those 2 men went jobless for some time and my business was destroyed because of her ignorance or was it her hate of men? — Her latest attempt was to reduce my benefit without any reference to me or consideration for our circumstances and thus I was forced to go job hunting last year as the bank refused to increase my overdraft to cover me as I sort ways to recover from WINZ further ABUSE.

    I complained to Colleen today that WINZ had forced me back to work for which Colleen replied that she had never done that — How convenient for her — The fact is she had steadily taken away as much of my benefit as she could making it neigh impossible for me to Father my Son and live with what was left — I hold her fully personally responsible if my small gain in health reduces — She also lied to me that should I begin work I would not be penalised for the first $100-0 — Thus stuffing up my very carefully monitored budget.

    I clearly explained for the 100th time in the last 8 years, that the main problem is caused thru WINZ refusing to recognise that I **Week about Equal Parent** my 12 year old Son and have done so since 1997 and thumped the table several times to highlight that I had had enough — This drew the attention of others and I was confronted with a rather large young male who proceeded to give me a lecture on how to complain — I asked him if he was a Dad and he said he was — I then asked him if he would accept 8 years of ABUSE of his children and only respond by thumping a desk — My case worker asked me to leave and thus I did — Not wishing to give WINZ a situation to hide behind yet again as we proceed to expose their 8 years of ABUSE.

    WINZ refuse to reflect my **Week about Equal Parenting** in my benefit now some 8 years, has caused much debt and loss of FATHERING — My Son has not been taken to even the pictures nor had any new cloths, nor decent birthdays, nor lots of quality food, nor visits to other paternal family and on it goes, for many years.

    Ms Dyson – Can you step in here and advocate a benefit whereby I can recover from this 8 years of abuse and Father my Son while working when I can and relieve me from needing to beg from good locals — friends and family.

    We are seriously in debt, no way of repaying, yet moving into the most costly time to raise our Son.

    Yours Sincerely
    Jim Bailey
    6 Lancaster Rd
    Beach Haven
    North Shore City
    09-482-2960
    027-429-0055
    JimBWarrior@xtra.co.nz
    Skype — HandsOnEqualParent

  26. whanga says:

    Awesome photos Wayne.I am so proud of you.Make it Fair or Make it GO!
    Indeed.
    In the light of what you are saying Jim we could make it a march demanding a Ministry of Mens Affairs and seek a promise from both Labour and National to create one and if not why not?

  27. Jim Bailey says:

    Man it is so good to see/hear you guys talk of these things – I was begining to think Mens Apathy had spread into those of us who still have PASSION – Mens Affairs!! – Bring on the Republicans – I can remember that being our first War Cry can’t I? – I will leave those still well enough to be active to tell you all of the desire to have a Ministry of Mens Affairs or go to their website –

    Great Stuff – I best sign off now while I can control the palpertations

    Onward

    Ration Shed – Jim

  28. xsryder says:

    Jim, I know what you mean. When I got 50/50 equal share parenting, it took three months before WINZ finally started helping with my son’s costs, during which time my son and I were forced to live on less than the dole for one person.
    After 3 months I applied for my case to be dealt with by a different WINZ office, and within minutes of arriving at the new office I was told that I was entitled to the Emergency Benefit and should have been receiving it for months, but of course WINZ has a policy of not back dating benefits.
    However, my primary argument with WINZ (and IRD) is that they refuse to do anything about my X partner’s obvious benefit fraud. I mean overseas holidays, new 42″ plasma TV, modern home, label clothing and a lifestyle better than anyone I know. Even affidavits from 3 people who observed her at her place of work and evidence showing that her house is owned by the man she worked for had no effect. WINZ and IRD don’t have the capacity to investigate benefit fraud because they spend all their resources screwing dads over. There is no doubt that WINZ policy and the Child Support Act encourage family breakdown, and of course Family Court Judges and lawyers are simply the thugs that do the dirty work….the Girlstapo.
    Seriously, your presence on a hikoi would be awesome, and knowledge of your involvement in the walk might encourage Ruth Dyson’s Ministerial inquiry to be more thorough than it might otherwise be.
    Need I say more…….

  29. Jim Bailey says:

    I have been thru many studies, research, complaints, enquires within WINZ – NONE proved any good for Javan and I – Most proved the lack of integrity of WINZ

    I hope with the watchful eyes of Rod Hooker, MP Jonathan Coleman and Simon Collins ready to pounce should we not get a fair deal will help heaps – Adding another string to that bow and being part of the Hikoi again be a good idea

    However there is much to concider here – Money – Time away from Javan – Time away from work – Time away from the computer – Time away from the Garden – Time away from the Ration Shed will effect many who need us – The growth is a concern even though the rules are tuff on who gets stuff for free – The attraction is extrordinary low donations can feed many and the exchange of edibles allows even more to participate

    We are now working with GRG, several Churches and have won another bread supplier

    Onward
    Ration Shed – Jim

  30. xsryder says:

    Hi Jim,
    Yes I see what you mean about juggling fatherhood and work, and then finding time to be involved in a hikoi, but as it stands, the likeliest date for a general election will fall between October 18 and November 22, soon after school holidays (27 Sep to 12 Oct). When I walked to Wellington, I left Hamilton immediately after my week of school holiday contact, so any father who has week-about care during school holidays could devote the other week to the walk. It might even be a good idea to plan the walk to take two weeks during the holidays.
    Remember, walkers wouldn’t have to walk the entire distance, with the aim of picking up people as the walk progresses, and fathers who have no contact at all, have the greatest opportunity and greatest to gain. Those who have full time work have plenty of time to apply for holiday leave, and likewise, there is plenty of time to work on donations, sponsorship, or put a few bucks away each week. Some might have children who are old enough to go on the walk, because remember this event is entirely peaceful, and as much an adventure as protest.
    Also, as some suggested, if walkers are transported between cities, like the other hikois, the walk could be condensed into a shorter period, for example 7 days. Although, my opinion is that if there is a group, as opposed to a single walker, more time could lead to more publicity and participation.
    One thing I should make clear is that I am more than happy to be fully involved in planning, letter writing and the walk itself, but until I have 5 other confirmed walkers, I’m not making any plans. I might be wrong, but I believe one lone walker would have more impact than 2-5, and although I have nothing but positive memories about my last walk, I’m not going alone again. Besides myself, I am aware of one other person who has given a firm commitment, so lets see if we can get 4 more to step up…..……

  31. Martin Swash says:

    We must lobby for a real documentary to be made on TVNZ about our plight. This is the best way forward, it is about BRINGING NATIONAL ATTENTION, most people do not realise what caring (ex)Dads are going through !

  32. bull en a china shop says:

    WE MUST DEFINE OUR MANILNESS TO SOCIETY OR OTHERWISE WE ARE USELESS MARTIN…
    Manliness (ISBN 0300106645) is book by Harvey C. Mansfield first published by Yale University Press in 2006. Mansfield is a professor of government at Harvard University. In this book, he defines manliness as “confidence in a situation of risk” and suggests this quality is currently undervalued in Western society. He suggests the quality is more common in men than in women, but doesn’t strictly exclude women, for example he names Margaret Thatcher. He also suggests the quality is “good and bad”, not all good, but not all bad. His main point is that gender neutral ideology denies both the reality of sex-specific qualities, and the valuable components of these, to the detriment of society.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NL7nP61-hk&NR=1
    Mansfield attributes the rise of gender neutral ideology firstly to Friedrich Nietzsche, Karl Marx and Jean Paul Satre, and then to feminists who repackaged the ideas as part of a political program. He names Simone de Beauvoir, Betty Friedan and Germaine Greer.

  33. whanga says:

    No we are Devo

  34. Starr says:

    Good day,

    I am going to a Judge led mediation very soon. My ex has done everything from protection orders with false accusation inwhich got discharged. Is anyone liable to pay this bill?
    Secondly they are wanting me to sign that I pay my childrens up bringing on a pro rata basis her care 60% My care 40%. I have other children from a previous relationship. My child support is high. I can not afford this as I have been left to maintain the family home also. Am I able to disagree or does this make it look like I am not helping raise my children even though she gets the benefit for them and they are in my care also. So obviously I am raising and paying for their food clothes extra activites for my children? I am already paying taxes twice for people on benefits. How could I dispute this?

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