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Gender Equity Pay Gap – Fair (equity) Pay

Filed under: General — Julie @ 1:03 am Fri 19th June 2009

Labour’s spokesperson for Women’s Affairs Sue Moroney, is attacking Pansy Wong for not giving Labour what they want. But you have to hand it to Pansy Wong and the National party. They are not in a hurry to bankrupt NZ over feminist demands nor turn us into state communist control.

Minister of Women’s Affairs, Pansy Wong, today backed away from commitments she made to the National Council of Women to work on fair pay for women, Labour’s spokesperson for Women’s Affairs, Sue Moroney says.

That is ALLEGED commitments BTW.

Sue goes on to say “The women of New Zealand are not fooled by this stalling tactic. Unfortunately the prospects of women achieving pay equity are getting further away under a National Government.”

I for one think National is being smart. They are going over the research to find the real reasons we have pay issues. It certainly is equal pay for equal work and we certainly have more trained women in NZ than we do men. And the ‘glass ceiling’ doesn’t exist to all the women who have jobs above it.

Maybe I should send some ideas to our leaders from the UK like this one.

Equality and Human Rights Commission chief executive Nicola Brewer said: “Changing the way we approach parental leave could be one way of tackling the gender pay gap.” The report wants fathers to be able to tag-on the extra paternity leave after the mother’s six months of maternity leave finishes.

The extra “parental leave” would be allocated on a “use it or lose it” basis so fathers would not be allowed to transfer unused leave to their partner.

Just in case you don’t know what all this demand is about:

Equality pay is equal pay for equal work. The feminists sorted this out in the early 70’s.

Equity pay is all men’s pays combined divided by the amount of men compared to all women’s pay combined divided by the amount of women.

The problem with the equity pay is that women are still staying home or working part-time to take care of their children. (we do have stay at home dads also btw) But this is not what the Labour Government wants. It wants ALL children in state care and ALL men and women working for the STATE or state controlled business.

I want to share this little piece I found.

As a government’s power is more unrestrained, as its power reaches into all the corners of culture and society, and as it is less democratic, then the more likely it is to kill its own citizens. There is more than a correlation here. As totalitarian power increases, democide multiplies until it curves sharply upward when totalitarianism is near absolute. As a governing elite has the power to do whatever it wants, whether to satisfy its most personal desires, to pursue what it believes is right and true, it may do so whatever the cost in lives. In this case power is the necessary condition for mass murder. Once an elite have it, other causes and conditions can operated to bring about the immediate genocide, terrorism, massacres, or whatever killing an elite feels is warranted.

Finally, at the extreme of totalitarian power we have the greatest extreme of democide. Communist governments have almost without exception wielded the most absolute power and their greatest killing (such as during Stalin’s reign or the height of Mao’s power) has taken place when they have been in their own history most totalitarian. As most communist governments underwent increasing liberalization and a loosening of centralized power in the 1960s through the 1980s, the pace of killing dropped off sharply.

Communism has been the greatest social engineering experiment we have ever seen. It failed utterly and in doing so it killed over 100,000,000 men, women, and children, not to mention the near 30,000,000 of its subjects that died in its often aggressive wars and the rebellions it provoked. But there is a larger lesson to be learned from this horrendous sacrifice to one ideology. That is that no one can be trusted with power. The more power the center has to impose the beliefs of an ideological or religious elite or impose the whims of a dictator, the more likely human lives are to be sacrificed. This is but one reason, but perhaps the most important one, for fostering liberal democracy.


  1. Feminism stopped being about equality a loooong time ago. Now it’s just all out war to loot as much as possible from the productivity of men, while ensuring that they end up with the dirty work. In the eyes of the feminist academic and government establishments men are just grist for the mill of female entitlement. Boycott marriage and family. The only way we’ll derail this train is for the birthrate to decline so precipitously that government is forced to start incentivizing men to do so with fair and equal treatment.

    Comment by alphadominance — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 8:09 am

  2. I was waiting for someone to post this, as I can’t work out how.

    I can’t believe they are putting so much money into this when some survey showed us as being one of the best in the world.

    There isn’t geneder pay gap in NZ it is a myth.

    Comment by Scott B — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 9:11 am

  3. It can never be properly worked out anyway… do they look at every person in every job and look at their qualifications, time at job, previous experience, companies financial positions etc etc? No. Plus they can’t compare one work place with the next. Most of the women I know earn more than me, and I have more qualifications than them but I don’t get upset, cause all bar one I don’t work in the same industry!

    Comment by Scott B — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 9:19 am

  4. Oh and the woman I know who is in the same industry, holds a higher position and has been at the company longer.

    Comment by Scott B — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 9:22 am

  5. Pay equity is a great idea. And as soon as everything else is equal, in terms of Family Law, Child Support, Child Access, the Domestic Violence Act etc; as soon as men have equal say and equal power in the home, which has never been so, and have an equal degrees of control over parenting blah, blah blah, we should seriously look at it. Hey – equity itself is a great idea, but, alas, also a myth. The gender pay differences that have been evident, and I am not sure they still are, are a hang over from the days when there were families, all under the one roof, and the man was the most likely breadwinner, expected to provide for his family, and the woman was the decision maker, the educator and homemaker. Remember that? The destruction of that institution has meant that generally, men still have to provide for their family, whether resident under the family roof or not. And women still claim the role of decision maker, educator and homebreaker (rhymes!). So women insist upon and are delivered those benefits, screwing men over until desperation drives them to suicide, or worse, and also go to work wanting the same pay as well. They expect all the benefits, and none of the responsibilities. I don’t see pay inequities as particularly unfair, if, indeed, they exist. Men, you might as well get yourself on the dole, abstain from the family situation and leave the workforce and the family (if they can make one) to women, and wait for the noise that makes. Or make a big noise now about all the other inequities.

    Comment by glenn — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 12:09 pm

  6. This is an interesting NZ Herald read on how Obama is going to create the largest and most powerful ‘super power’ yet.

    The federal reserve.

    Comment by julie — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 3:27 pm

  7. sounds like Obama has little dick syndrome
    he has to compensate by proving his nuke is bigger theres

    Comment by Luke — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 3:42 pm

  8. Some say that a valid comparison of gender incomes needs to include income derived from domestic partnerships and relationship property entitlements. Those who spend more time homemaking and child rearing are often earning income from their partner. Rent/mortgage is paid, food is bought (or money provided for the purpose), a car provided and petrol paid for, and so forth. When an employer provides such things this is considered as part of the income package and fringe benefit tax is charged. It seems invalid to calculate women’s average income while completely ignoring the substantial amount they share of men’s earnings, and what they are guaranteed by law through relationship property legislation.

    Comment by blamemenforall — Fri 19th June 2009 @ 8:37 pm

  9. Thanks very much Labor…
    ……..and can we have the equitable parenting for men on the side please…..
    Yes that one over there in blue…..and can you deliver it with a side dish of equitable relational, educational and health provision for men?

    Oh good!…….
    And how much do we owe you……?
    Oh! Only are arm and a leg? Possibly more… say….
    Well that’s very reasonable then……
    Thanks ever so much……Labor……you’re so caring for our menfolk……..I’m ever so, ever so touched…….


    Comment by Skeptik — Sat 20th June 2009 @ 2:08 am

  10. And dont forget the massaging of the stats. All of the money men pay in child support is deemed to be their income. Whereas after they have paid the tax on it is given to the women to spend but not added to their income in the national stats. a rort if i ever saw one. We should all seriously consider boycotting the next census as this is one device the feminazi system uses to massage the facts.

    Comment by bruce — Sat 20th June 2009 @ 4:32 pm

  11. Mmmmmm, good stuff, Yep Men (Pay),,,many women i meet around all say one thing??? that they love to have been born a Man, Men have it good they say, don’t get the monthly curse,don’t have to bear the pain of child birth,etc etc, i am sure you have all heard it.
    But soon as a war comes along men are whisked off to die for their country, women and children.
    Many a excellent young men have died for this place, so as the others that survive will go on to better the country.
    If only them young men could see what their country has done to their men now.
    What makes it right when you pay morgage, power, rates , phone etc etc, and child support and then you are left with $50 dollars for your self to buy food and run a car etc.
    The child is getting $125 a week to live off, and the person paying it gets $50 a week,,,and the childs guardain is working and collecting rent from another person, and has another partner, Yep this government is going to kill more men and there’s no war.
    This government will cry for help as soon as the shit hits the fan, and that help is expected from Men who have been ripped off by this government paying unrealistic child support.
    Hey Mr Key why not start charging Tax on the Guardian for recieving another income from chid support, and that would be a triple tax on that Mans income,,ie, He earns the wage gets taxed on that then payes child support which is another tax, then you can tax the ex on extra earnings from child support.
    Next election dont vote.

    Comment by Mark — Sat 20th June 2009 @ 6:25 pm

  12. Mark says:
    Next election dont vote.

    I voted once when I was 18yrs. I haven’t voted since then and I’m 45yrs old now. They’re all on the same side anyway so why bother voting? None of them offer any real skills or solutions for anything anyway. Instead they rely on trendy propaganda from world bodies to dictate to the people. They all suckle from the same nipple. It should be of no surprise that western society has unilaterally gone to the dogs as we are slowly but surely shepherded toward Global Government. Baaaa

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 20th June 2009 @ 6:47 pm

  13. Modern Feminism is about equal outcomes (when it suits) where as all other groups take equality to mean equal opportunities and rewards.

    So their foundation is that regardless of what choices, effort, education, risks, etc women take as a group they should on average get paid the same as men. This is the rationale that justifies unequal treatment for women.

    The only other group I can think of that considers this equality are true communists.

    All other groups only want equal opportunities and rewards. If I work hard, study hard and do well then I want to have the same reward as someone else who put in the same effort. Otherwise I will do a job that no one else wants to do because market forces will pay me more for less effort.

    I think the tide is turning for the Min of women’s affairs. It is seen to be struggling to justify it’s own existence. To kill it off only requires highlighting how it is failing to address what most women really want. That then means that no female votes will be lost by killing it.

    Most women want the same things – most of which are not aligned with modern feminism.

    Comment by Dave — Mon 22nd June 2009 @ 3:17 pm

  14. It is true that there are few options to vote for if you are looking for strong policies in favour of true gender equality serving the welfare of both men and women. Feminist ideology, often based on dishonesty, has so captured the western world’s belief system that few politicians dare to challenge it. However, those who chose not to vote share in the responsbility for the anti-male terrorism we continue to endure. The fact is that every single vote for true gender equality will be very powerful because there have been so few of them. As other parties see signs of a groundswell of support for a more rational and fair society, they will get on the bandwagon offering better deals for men.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Tue 23rd June 2009 @ 2:06 pm

  15. No Dave,

    National just gave another 2 mill budget increase to MOW when its slashing other budgets.



    Comment by Scrap_The_CSa — Tue 23rd June 2009 @ 5:11 pm

  16. Whose hands are the comments on MENZ Issues playing into?

    Onward – Jim

    Comment by Jim Bailey — Fri 26th June 2009 @ 3:50 am

  17. Hi Scott – you are welcome to register as an author here if you want to post new items.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Fri 26th June 2009 @ 11:57 am

  18. Biology is destiny, but I guess this is hard for women to accept?
    Just another example, from a growing list:
    Non-Euclidean Navigational Strategies Of Women: Compensatory Response Or Evolved Dimorphism

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Fri 19th June 2015 @ 10:04 am

  19. The paper above is now available at:
    Non-Euclidean Navigational Strategies of Women: Compensatory Response or Evolved Dimorphism?
    Irwin Silverman, Jean Choi

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 23rd May 2018 @ 12:53 pm

  20. Equal pay for equal work – is women’s work always equal to mens?
    The Wikipedia article about White matter suggests that women have less connectivity in their brains. This might result in less work ability?????
    Myelinated axon length
    Men have more white matter than females both in volume and in length of myelinated axons. At the age of 20, the total length of myelinated fibers in males is 176,000 km while that of a female is 149,000 km.[6]
    The lengths are quite spectacular. Around the world about 4 times, with all of that hidden inside every head. Don’t take it too seriously……

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 23rd May 2018 @ 1:02 pm


    The Author is forced to seperate equality into two different things.

    “Let’s keep it simple, and take just one example. Women still don’t have pay equity with men. We are getting closer to pay equality, but that is a different thing. If that’s a surprise to you, you’re not alone, and you’re not being dim. The two things sound similar, but they’re different in an important way:”

    So pay equality is to be paid the same for the same work.
    It turns out, we essentially have pay equality.
    The company’s that researched it, found pay equality.
    Also there’s no court cases, on pay equality.

    So since there is pay equality, we need a new definition.
    Pay equity.
    Which relates to what the job is.
    In effect the “pay gap” does exist, but not as pay equality.

    “ Case in point – when Westpac investigated its pay gap, it found no problem with pay equality within roles at the bank. But its overall pay gap was a whopping 30 per cent, mainly because most of its women were employed in lower-paid roles. The bank realised to fix this, it had to work harder to get women into IT and senior banking roles.”

    How does the bank do that?
    Encourage only teenage girls to do IT.
    Or only girls doing Accounting, or Economics degrees.
    Only girl’s allowed to do Business Management.
    So they can have all the top jobs.

    “Others such as Fisher & Paykel Healthcare, Meridian and Contact Energy survey pay in like-for-like roles but not their company-wide pay gaps. F&P Healthcare told me this was a conscious decision “because we don’t think it provides much useful insight given the composition of our workforce.”

    So they want pay equity.
    The F&P example.
    The factory workforce is highly female.
    Low paid.
    It’s office is highly male.
    With Engineering degrees.
    Highly paid.

    Repeatedly we have an education choice, job choice issue.
    The common denominator, is choice.
    The pay equity gap, a resultant.
    Not an actual thing, as a cause.
    There is no gender discrimination, if it was a freely chosen resultant.

    Logic dictates examples with the opposite happening.
    In some business examples.
    High wage females, low wage males.
    Law Commission as an example.
    All the high paid lawyers are female.
    The cleaners possibly male.

    “Pay equity adds a bunch more stuff to the equation – it looks at why there are fewer women in high-paying roles, why women take (through necessity or otherwise) more flexible working options, and bias in hiring and promotion practices, educational and career advancement opportunities.”

    There is no educational bias against females.
    Attendance ratios shows its biased in females favour.

    Bias in promotion, hiring?
    How would you control that?
    A driver for that is who starts business.
    Who naturally gets the top jobs.
    And demand on job type.
    IT, plumbers etc are in high demand.
    For real world, income generating work.

    And not mentioned.
    The parenting gap.
    Other than implying it’s forced on them.
    Female only maternity leave.
    Is not forced on them.
    Shared care would force males, into flexible jobs.
    Not mentioned.

    Those things are policy of government.
    A lot coming from the writers 5 leaders.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 19th September 2021 @ 9:33 am

  22. Some information in this.

    Only four companies in Aotearoa disclose their pay gap. One, Genesis Energy, has a gender pay gap at 35 per cent.
    “At face value that’s a huge gap,” says chief executive Marc England.
    But on “like for like roles” the gap is very low, meaning for men and women in the same or similar jobs there is a 1.7 per cent difference in pay.

    So the 9% pay gap figure they talk about is the 35% figure.
    They don’t give us the national average for the 1.7% figure.

    As pointed out in the article, it’s a carrier choice issue.
    Unless we become communist, with everybody paid the same.
    The resultants will be very difficult to change.
    How do you change naturally occurring trends towards job type.

    The benefits research says a lot.

    Bonuses, and performance are inherent to each other.
    I have not heard of bonus schemes being different, by gender.
    Females getting more parking benefits, shows a job type difference.
    Higher vehicle costs, should be due to vehicles for a job difference.
    A work Ute, is more expensive than a commuter car.
    A tradesperson doing more miles, with more costs.
    Than a lawyer going from the office, to court.

    Only 4 companies?
    Many more have reported examining the issue.
    Finding the same resultants, for the same reasons.
    Some actual bias exists, the 1.7% figure exposing it.
    Even then not all the 1.7% figure, will be due to bigotry.
    It to may have contributed causes.

    What would a law requiring reporting solve?
    How many bad actors, will it catch.
    Certainly none are being prosecuted now.
    For not having equal pay.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 20th October 2021 @ 8:47 am

  23. An example of bias, and propaganda.

    “More than 90 per cent of managers at Manatū Taonga​ Ministry for Culture and Heritage are Pākehā, and even though they’re mostly women, they’re still paid less on average than the men who report to them.”

    So the argument for race.
    Not talked about is what the cause, of the resultant is.
    To be a manager, one would assume they have qualifications.
    Does education, create the resultant, not employment bias.
    What about population demographics.
    Is where they are based, not the national average.

    Obviously they like the mostly women managers part.
    That’s ignored, in the article, as a problem.
    But this about money.

    “Hardy said the gender pay gap narrowed at the end of September to 2.8 per cent”
    That’s after saying.
    “74 per cent of its lowest-paid employees are women”
    Hence the resultant ‘gap’.

    What exactly where they measuring.
    Was it the identical employee, pay gap.
    Which is likely 0%, or against males.
    They wouldn’t dare discuss where women are paid, more than men.
    Or just an average, of male vs female pay.

    Did they then prove there was gender bias.
    It doesn’t look, for women, that there is any.

    The title says things, because they have a statistic.
    The propaganda, the writing from one perspective.

    Are they advocating for a male employment rate.
    The same as, National population demographics.
    Will they launch, a program for 50% male managers.
    50% male employees.
    Males slowly and certainly, removed from positions of power.
    By current policy.

    If this was done to women.
    Action would be demanded, by the media.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 6th November 2021 @ 10:16 am

  24. This is on the far end of propaganda.

    At no point of time do women work for free.
    They use a false concept.
    The minimum pay female, and male, are identical.
    At no point does the pay stop for females.
    But continue for males.
    Even when a company has a gender pay gap.

    They say women are ‘required’ to work for free.
    We all know, that’s blatantly false.

    “With good legislation, pay gaps can be all but eliminated; we’ve known this for some time.”
    They cannot solve some problems, with the pay gap.
    The low paid, worker jobs, mostly females.
    The office, with high paid staff, mostly male.
    The pay gap unavoidable.
    The opposite should exist, in some workplaces.
    Low paid male workers, high paid female managers.

    They would have to mandate, equal employment.
    Every position, two people, paid identically.
    All female workplaces, forced to hire men.
    All male workplaces, forced to hire women.

    The blatant, false comment.
    “I have had conversations with friends who proudly announce they are not being paid less than their colleagues, and have always been paid fairly for what they do. This may be the case, but evidence shows it would be the exception.”

    The friends experience pay equity.
    The ‘evidence’ shows pay equality, from demographics.
    There example a bank.
    Tellers, etc the low paid workers, mostly female.
    The high paid economic geniuses, more male.
    A male teller, is paid the same, as the female teller.

    Propaganda is also about what they don’t say.
    They demand equality, as feminists.
    When women want equality, with men.
    Silent on men having equality, with women.

    The parenting gap, enormous.
    By there logic, the single father, demographic.
    Stops being a father, in January.

    Women complain about a November, result.

    Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 19th November 2021 @ 7:50 am

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