MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Jamaican Men’s Movement

Filed under: Child Support,Domestic Violence,General,Law & Courts — Julie @ 3:25 pm Fri 19th February 2010

I think it is appalling when men who study men’s issues under ‘gender studies’ at university condemn father’s and men’s groups who stand up for fathers and men to have equal rights. Women have come a long way changing society for females while men are still stuck in the past. Up until 2004, when a father took Germany to court in the European Court of Human Rights over discrimination, an unmarried man with a child was not accepted as a father. Still today this discrimination exists in the United Kingdom where an unmarried man can’t even sign for his child’s health, even though he is on the birth certificate and living with the mother. Decades ago unmarried women were sent to church facilities, had their child taken away and adopted out while they were sent back home childless.

Unfortunately, misandry (hatred of men) runs rampant in ‘gender studies’ (because it follows feminist ideology of man = perpetrator = bad and woman = victim = good). It takes a strong man to stand up to do what’s right instead of what’s easy and popular. And it just so happens there are men out there strong enough, who are insisting men have their own studies away from misandry (hatred of men) but that’s the American Men’s movement and for another article.

I am also appalled and think it is very sad and extremely bad that we don’t have New Zealand men representing New Zealand men but instead use (selectively chosen for their radical feminist outlook), men from overseas. Men as close as Australia with Michael Flood whose says his higher education made him want to be a feminist supporter. In other words, he is caught up in the man=bad, woman=good ideology. ……. to far away America with Lundy Bancroft who thinks every man who doesn’t follow feminism needs to be in prison for reprogramming that he insists takes as long as it takes (a life time for some).

Unlike New Zealand shutting up it’s own men’s voices while promoting radical feminist men from overseas, Jamaica is progressing with their men working within women’s affairs and they are allowed to speak openly and truthfully from a man’s perspective on what’s holding men back.

Jamaican MALE desk representative and senior policy analyst at the Bureau of Women’s Affairs, Dave Noel Williams, says some women are stumbling blocks standing in the way of their children’s fathers, and see them only as cash cows and not equal parents in the relationships.

He added that the practice stifles children’s development and gave an example of one of the cases he dealt with.

I dealt with a case where a man went to see his child, the boy was playing in the yard and shouted to his mother that ‘daddy is at the gate’ and the mother shouted back and told him, ‘if him don’t have the money him can go back’.”

Here in New Zealand men’s rights activists and advocates have been saying this for years. In fact, men still need the equal right around paternity. Any woman can name any man as the father of her child and claim minimum 19% of his wages in child support. Under feminist laws, men are guilty until proven innocent (this is opposite to the old laws – innocent until proven guilty) yet men can’t prove their innocence when men can’t get a paternity test without the women’s permission. If she doesn’t give it, he’s stuck paying child support for 19 years or until the child is 16 and gives their own permission.

According to Williams, the scenario is most often played out when a woman is granted custody of the children on the orders of a magistrate in the Family Court.

“It is the age-old belief that women are better nurturers. I have seen down there some harsh cases that you know, up front, that the woman is not doing anything and the man is doing everything for his child and the court awarded custody to the mother who could not [manage] in any way,” Williams said.

Sadly, feminist ideology (man=bad, woman=good) trumps ‘the best interest of the child’.

Older men who were judges, were believed to be holding back progress because they were raised that men where providers/protectors of women and children while women were nurturing and best for children. As we replaced older male judges with women and younger men we expected to see different outcomes in court cases.

Over the past 40-50 years parents were encouraged to raise their sons to do domestic work while girls were encouraged to compete with boys and become more aggressive. By doing this we prepared men and women for equality changes.

Sadly, feminist ideology (man=bad, woman=good) trumps ‘progress’.


Another Jamaican gender expert deputy head of Fathers Inc, Solomon McCalla, says that cases where fathers are granted custody, especially of daughters, are extremely rare as the Family Court system is skewed against males.”I can tell you of only two cases that I know of. It is indeed rare,” he said.

According to one father, after the children’s mother had moved out and taken the children to live in less than favourable conditions, he was forced to go to court and file for custody.

“The first thing the judge said to me was if the mother is even a prostitute she stands a better chance of winning custody. She then went on to ask the woman how much money she wanted to take care of the children and when she got an answer, she just moved on to the next case,” the father said.

“I never budget on my children, so when they set a price I paid willingly, even though it was about 75 per cent of my salary. In addition I carried groceries, clothes and toys for them. Still she tried to keep me out of their lives and I had to use police to get a chance to see them on weekends,” he said.

The proud father said the case lasted 11 months and he only prevailed when the court had exhausted all angles and could not prove the mother fit to raise the children.

He said the judge, a female, was very insulting when he asked her if his only duty as a father was to provide money. The judge, he said, told him “yes” in no uncertain terms.

Best to scrap the idea that female judges would be less discriminative to fathers.

McCalla also sought to beat back a prevailing perception that the majority of Jamaican fathers were sperm donors and were not involved in raising their offspring.

“It is not a reality as most Jamaican fathers care for and are willing to take care of their children and our studies have shown that in the past,” McCalla said.

What a mess……

These same two gender experts are also tackling domestic violence where men are the victim and women are the perpetrator. Link here.

Jamaican men aren’t any different than New Zealand men when it comes to domestic violence. They are surrounded by messages everywhere that it’s OK for women to harm men. Not only do they need to overcome the shame for reaching out and saying it’s not OK, they also need to stop blaming themselves and justifying women’s bad actions.

“What they will tell you is that the women beat up on them, but then they come back now to justify and say, ‘a me do it first’, or ‘a me say something that she never like’, or ‘a me tell her that she couldn’t go somewhere’,” said Williams, while pointing out that most men do this because they want to give the impression that they are still in control.

He pointed out that most men prefer that their story remains a secret, because for the most part being abused by a woman is considered a “shame” or a “sin” in Jamaica.

“It is taboo, so men will not go forward and say that they are being abused,” he stressed. “If it should be written any at all in the paper or even be on the news that a man has been abused and he comes forward for help, then he is going to be seen as a wimp, to put it nicely, and that’s very, very nicely.”

Williams also adds another reluctance of men to come forward, one we all know well. There’s no-one to take them seriously.

“I have had clients who have said to me that they have gone to the police station, and I went with one of them too to report violence against them, and the female corporal just said to the man that him must go home, because him a man,” Williams shared.

He believes that it is this callous disregard by persons within the society and police officers that has forced men to go into hiding instead of admitting that they need help.

“I would say a lot of men are suffering, but they are suffering underneath because they can’t come out and talk about it,” he said.

This is the same thing I have noticed in New Zealand. There was a time when the police told women to go home if they came forward about domestic violence and didn’t show any major injuries while men didn’t dare to even go to the police. But now that domestic violence is taken seriously, you’d think the police would care for all. But no, it doesn’t work that way when the police themselves are trained in feminist ideology being men=bad, women=good … especially when women are the bosses.

Waitakere police has a female officer in charge of family violence, which includes domestic violence. She won’t accept men to come forward and says they have the pub to go to.

Williams lamented the fact that issues affecting men are not given prominence, but said that this was something the male desk at the Bureau of Women’s Affairs — which was launched in April last year — was trying to address.

“We need more data, empirical evidence on men and men’s issues, we are not having it,” he said. “Because gender (and) the whole thing about masculinity and men’s issue — it’s not something that was being looked at a lot, it was just about women.”

Great stuff Jamaica. Well done to the men and women for standing for equality together.


  1. What may help is bringing this type of behaviour into public. I do not believe feminism is so rampant it can withstand the glare of daylight.

    Comment by Alastair — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 3:34 pm

  2. Thank you Julie for that post. You have more knowledge than me on this subject and I look forward to learning from you.

    Alastair: I agree. However, the question is.. how do we do this ? What would be the most effective way of doing this. Happy to take this offline if you prefer.

    Comment by noconfidence — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 3:46 pm

  3. Reply to Alastair and Noconfidence

    Firstly, Thank you very much Julie for a great article ……kind regards to you Julie and to your Family as well…..

    Alastair, Noconfidence and Julie,Noconfidence your statement concerning…..’However,the question is.. how do we do this ?’….

    I do have an idea,and would like to bounce the idea around on Menz forum site .but it could lead to bigger things…

    Gentlemen how about networking with other Men/Father support groups all over the World,via the net ….Because what I have reading on other Men/Fathers support sites in America and England is basically the same comments and views that is happening here in New Zealand as in concerning Manhood/ Fatherhood getting hammered by radical Feminism….

    And If people think I am ‘blunt’ on the Menz forum….Go see what America Fathers are saying in the Men/Father support group Forums,especially in the state of California… ?????

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 4:12 pm

  4. Hi John D.

    Networking is fine. But …. and this is of course the big but… mens groups in NZ are quite fractured and under-managed. It appears that when there is someone wanting to lead the way forward there isn’t a case of constructive discussion but of criticizing. It is not feminism that is putting the mens movement back; it is men bickering among themselves do that.

    I’m happy to be part of a new mens group. One that is active in approaching the government, NGOs both here and abroad, and with companies/individuals. One that has the task of defending mens rights to ensure equality. One that accepts that violence, abuse, dishonesty occurs regardless of gender, race, culture, creed.

    The face of NZ mens rights needs to change and come out from the closet. No, I don’t want to lead such a group as I don’t have the knowledge and experience that others do, though I do have other expertise that would help.
    Am I right? Wrong?
    Do any of you who read Menz actually care? This is a discussion board after all, so get discussing !

    Comment by noconfidence — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 4:47 pm

  5. Networking, one ring above them all etc. Many have tried. Many have failed. The tall poppy syndrome is in full bloom.

    On this very board recently a campaign emerged against a particular person. A person I personally consider to be one of those leaders. A person I doubt will ever grace this forum with his wisdom again.

    Again another who has apparantly destroyed his health fighting for men has his heart in the right place, but has developed the knack of aggravating people who could do much to supporting him.

    I don’t want to become a king maker. there are others more worthy of that role. I will say there are are are several I would follow almost to the death.

    That leader will have come to serve men, not to be exhalted by them!

    Comment by Alastair — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 5:48 pm

  6. @ noconfidence – I don’t think that potential leader has emerged yet although I’m sure he or she will be revealed in time. The person who manages to consolidate all of the separate efforts already being made may not yet have woken up to the misandry affecting New Zealand. The incident that is a catalyst to that paradigm shift may not have occurred for that potential leader of the Men’s movement in New Zealand yet. If that leader was present now, we would all know it already. Give it time. Many of the leaders of the woman’s movement appear to have been authors of controversial works. Maybe that might be similar for the Men’s movement?

    The feminist movement was bankrolled by International Bankers with ulterior motives. Men’s groups won’t get that kind of support. Men won’t fight dishonesty with dishonesty nor greed with greed nor stupidity with stupidity. The phase has passed where Men and Men’s groups have defended themselves against the false accusations, deliberate lies and the crack-pot ideology of feminism. Men are going on the offensive. The onus is on feminism to defend her filthy lying mouth. Feminism is under attack from truth, honesty and rational thinkers from both genders. I believe that this strategy is the correct one to follow. Feminism is being mocked because it deserves to be.

    All leaders are criticized regardless of what cause they champion. I don’t think criticism has prevented any real leader from taking the reigns for a just cause. When that leader emerges who will drive the Men’s movement forward, the petty squabbles and issues of the past between individuals will appear irrelevant. In the meantime we should all continue place our support where we honestly believe it is best placed, regardless of our contrasting opinions. We could all try harder to understand that there might be many facets to the Men’s movement that are all positive and helpful and rather than criticize those different thinkers we should appreciate their efforts too. That’s my view anyway :).

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Fri 19th February 2010 @ 6:34 pm

  7. Reply to Alastair and noconfidence

    Gentleman,both of you have spoken very wise and very sincere words …And after having a good long hard think …I do Apologize to all, on my ‘harshness’ …’bluntness’…’Rants and Raves’ in a lot my posts…

    Yes I plead guilty, I have let of a ‘Lot Stream’ that as building up over the past number of years….And do I feel better for it….I am not going to Lie…Damn straight I do….But what is ‘ranting and raving’ going to do to fix the problem….Nothing at all..!!! but to make it a lot worse…

    I still deeply love and honor this Country and it breaks my heart and soul when I see all this social engineering destroying good and decent Kiwi Families…

    However down below is a reply I received back from ‘Erin Pizzey’ …Again this could be ‘left field’ thinking here on my part…….And I would like to bounce my idea to everyone concerned on Menz this includes Julie,OnewomanDV and Keenskier…..

    Oh,after having a good long hard think what Erin Pizzey had to say…….I do concur with Erin Pizzey assessment concerning… ‘ it is political group of women’…..

    This is my Idea….How about asking ‘Erin Pizzey’ as in how do we as ‘Man’ and ‘Woman’ go about changing the mindset and fighting this so called ‘Political group’ that ‘Erin Pizzey’ has mentioned ….???????

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    ‘Erin Pizzey’ reply to my email to her, on my concerns of Radical Feminism………

    ‘Many years ago I was invited to New Zealand by your Mental Health group and it was before the feminists got their hands on the dv movement. The refuges were good honest places and women who were themselves violent were recognized and helped. I was banned from going to Australia because they already had control there. I have been so sad to watched New Zealand over the years going to same way. It is not a gender issue and never has been a gender issue — it is political group of women who destroy the whole dv concept. Keep the faith and I just say my prayers. good bless you lots of love Erin’

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 7:59 am

  8. Wise words Alastair ……

    But Alister,can I just add my humble two cents worth on your phrase you have posted,and that is …’That leader will have come to serve the Human Race as in for both Man and Woman, not to be exalted by them!’

    Another thought I had,just my opinion We also need a Woman Co-Leader in a so called ‘Man movement…..We need a ‘cool headed’ rational level headed thinking Woman too……Who wouldn’t hesitate to tell some Guys….Like me….’Pull your head in’

    And personally I think we do have one fine Lady that posts on here at ‘Menz’,And that Lady would be a great and awesome Co-Leader and I would like to nominate is ….’Julie’….

    ‘Tongue in Cheek’in a nice way,and just my sense of Humor…..Have you fainted Julie…….??????

    Yes,Alastair….I do care……A lot….!!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 9:35 am

  9. The Republic of NZ Party fielded candidates last election. Most candidates had come from the men’s movement and, aside from a few vague and hollow promises from United Future, it was the only party with policies that directly and substantially addressed the concerns of men and fathers. Its policies were largely what men have been asking for. But the party received few votes from others in the men’s movement. Very few of those who often complain about feminist politics, laws and the Family Court even bothered to turn up to hear speakers or to participate in public demonstrations. Go figure.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 1:30 pm

  10. Reply to Hans

    ….Hmmmmmmmm….A very good call and a fair call too Hans….

    Personally I never heard of the party that you have mentioned..I will do a Google search on the Republic of N.Z…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 1:41 pm

  11. Hi JD, you are very kind. And I’m stuck for words.

    Umm, .. (I really am stuck for words).

    Every time I try to write a comment, I find it contradicts another point so I start again. I have tried 4 times to write something in response to you … but nothing is acceptable, so far.

    Thank-you for the compliment to my post. It’s nice reading your discussions.

    Comment by julie — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 2:22 pm

  12. John Dutchie says: I will do a Google search on the Republic of N.Z…

    I found their website here John. Hopefully you’re not too frustrated at the side scroll-bars. You can always use ‘right mouse click > This Frame > Open Frame in New Window/Tab’ if it bothers you and depending on what browser you’re using. I use Mozilla Firefox. There’s some good articles within their blog if you bother looking further.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 2:45 pm

  13. Thank you both for your compliments. Unfortunately they were not my words but belonged to one whose sandals I am not fit to carry.

    Comment by Alastair — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 5:06 pm

  14. Why mess around with “Republic of NZ Party” Hans? What’s wrong with “NZ Men’s Rights Party” or something like it? The Republic title gives the impression of being afraid to front-foot on the main issue, or worse, that men’s rights are secondary to another agenda.

    It’s not as if you’ve got a large voting base at risk, or that alienation of women voters is a material concern. The Maori Party seem to be doing fine by being straight-up with their name and purpose.

    Comment by rc — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 7:37 pm

  15. Have to say it Julie, but you are a likeable person!
    You have experience of what has gone wrong with NZ social engineering before and have experiences with mens issues. I’d be happy if you were in any future mens organisation (I think it should be called the ministry of mens affairs; how about that, a NGO showing up government gender biased ministries)!

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 8:01 pm

  16. N/C I agree. No one should seek office in this ministry. They will be elevated by the respect of others. Now who else?

    Comment by Alastair — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 9:42 pm

  17. Thanks Hans.
    Interesting to read about the republican party. As it’s name suggests it’s objective is something more than mens rights, though I’m pleased to see there are people out there trying to get mens issues into parliament.
    Hans said…

    But the party received few votes from others in the men’s movement. Very few of those who often complain about feminist politics, laws and the Family Court even bothered to turn up to hear speakers or to participate in public demonstrations. Go figure.

    And that gents is one of our main issues. Most people I’ve talked to who have never had any experience of the family court believes it is as bad as we know.

    And those that do know what it’s like… well, we all do the kiwi bloke thing and become a little apathetic.
    If we kiwi guys are never going to stand up for ourselves then we’ll be in this cesspit forever, just sinking deeper.

    John D mentioned the following further down in this discussion:

    How about asking ‘Erin Pizzey’ as in how do we as ‘Man’ and ‘Woman’ go about changing the mindset and fighting this so called ‘Political group’ that ‘Erin Pizzey’ has mentioned

    Great idea John. Sounds like someone who might be able to provide some ideas. But I would also suggest that it is pointed out to her how apathetic we kiwis are.

    Maybe we can invite her to start writing on Menz too……

    Comment by noconfidence — Sat 20th February 2010 @ 9:53 pm

  18. Men will soon have the ability to further protect themselves, and their sons, from the industry that panders to the privileged princess mentality with the imminent availability of a promising male contraceptive that is currently being trialed.

    I suggest you have a bucket ready before you read the heavily slanted MailOnline article authored by Leah Hardy…

    Right now, 60 men in Manchester and 20 in Edinburgh are temporarily sterile. They have all agreed to be part of a trial for a ‘promising’ new male contraceptive jab. Each man has had two hormone injections which will prevent him making sperm for about two months. We haven’t heard from the chaps involved, but the scientists are certainly jolly excited about it all.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 8:59 am

  19. Guys, tis an interesting discussion and men need to start making progress to bring about change. I mentioned this on this site weeks ago but was ignored. If nothing is initiated to start change I feel this site may just become a woman bashing toothless entity. I live in Wellington and I for one would be more than happy to give some of my time to a plan of action instead of moaning about how bad I have it. This site is starting to sound like broken record only because all the good information posted on this site is not constructively used to better mens chance of equality. Yes we could quote overseas statisitics till the cows come home- so what. This is New Zealand not the US , UK or Europa. Words without actions are as useful as a potted cactis in a monkeys pajamas.

    Comment by ebenezagood — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 10:52 am

  20. Noconfidence has offered a constructive suggestion for a plan of action to move forwards. He’s nominated a contributor who provides much of the content here as a potential leader to spearhead his suggestion. Both John Dutchie and Alastair have tentatively agreed with his suggestion. Alastair has asked for further nominations in post #8 below. I hope that helps.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 11:46 am

  21. wont the male pill put a stop to alot of controlling games women like to play…take thier power away…i like that idea…save shitloads on benefits too…the govt should issue it to men for free…like that would happen…if men grew tits we’d get it for free

    Comment by ford — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 2:32 pm

  22. Of course.. the nominated person would have to want to take on that role. I believe that in the past they have been reluctant to.
    I agree with ebenezagood’s point about the menz site. It has sounded like a scratched record sometimes. And that’s mainly because we don’t move forward; we’re all stuck with the same issues as we were a few years ago. In fact we are now in a worse situation as we now have police able to issue on the spot protection orders.

    Listen; I’m serious about this. We are at one of those cross roads again where there are people here with passion, with experience, people with the ability to get our message across.

    I invite all who want to take put in a new way forward to contribute here and tell us what you want it to be. I have my personal opinion as to what it should be and will add my 5 cents worth into the mix.

    If we get past apathy then perhaps we can actually create something that can be respected by all (probably not all, but by most – you know the old saying!).

    Comment by noconfidence — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 2:34 pm

  23. I nominate Hans.

    I think he is terrific speaking up for men’s issues and I’d gladly have him as a representative of the group.

    Comment by julie — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 3:32 pm

  24. Can you nominate more than one person?

    Comment by julie — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 7:26 pm

  25. Julie; nominate who you want and as many people as you want.

    I would suggest that those nominated are then asked if they are interested in such a role and what they would do if they were head of such an organisation. We can then debate the merits of each candidates after that. I hope that we do not turn back into the finger pointing crap of yesteryear.
    Sound like a reasonable method ?
    I’m just making suggestions though happy to chair this !

    Comment by noconfidence — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 8:06 pm

  26. Leave me out until I am facing a real person. I decline all (If any) nominations.

    Comment by Alastair — Sun 21st February 2010 @ 8:10 pm

  27. Reply Alaster

    Then I will bounce another idea to all concern and see what the feedback is like…. How about if we all meet somewhere,where it is convenient to everyone to gather… and then we all can see the ‘real person’ ‘face to face’ …Any takers….???…I keen…

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 7:05 am

  28. I’m happy to meet though since some contributors on here are in the south and some are in the north… where do you suggest ?
    Not happy to have that location publicly available though. Would rather it be emailed round. Also, would not be happy if some of the extremists came along. Sorry, just my own view.

    Comment by noconfidence — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 8:42 am

  29. It is the violent extremists that bother me! otherwise I agree. To complete arrangements a hidden Yahoo group would suffice! Personally I am not going to be there until I know who else is.

    Comment by Alastair — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 8:49 am

  30. Reply to Alastair

    Well Alastair…I will be there..It is time to ‘Walk the Talk.’.

    Yes…. ‘Blunt’ and ‘Forthright’ Yes,I do plead guilty to all of the above charges your honour …L.O.L…But I am no ‘violet’ extremist.

    Oh yes ‘Julie’ I do concur with you ‘Hans’ would be excellent choice, as well as you….

    Kind regards to all John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 9:02 am

  31. I wouldn’t consider you extremist John D. Blunt; yep, forthright; yep.. must be from your dutch blood 😉

    I’m thinking of other who come on here spouting very negative comments without making 1 constructive comment. I don’t need to name names. Their actions speak for themselves.. nuff said!

    Comment by noconfidence — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 11:10 am

  32. And its about time I got off me backside and did something, so I’ll come too
    Im not considered an extremist am I? (to bloody lazy to be extreme)

    Comment by mits — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 5:00 pm

  33. Man owes child support from when he was 7 years old

    Comment by julie — Mon 22nd February 2010 @ 10:56 pm

  34. Reply to Julie…

    Interesting point you have raised here Julie,I have a customer who suspects, he is not the Real Father of his so called three year old Child…

    And he wants to have a D.N.A test done, I told told my customer ‘Tongue in Cheek’ of New Zealand so called ‘Fair Law’…That the Mother can say a firm ‘No’ and there is nothing you can do Because you, as the ‘Father’ are label by the system as the ‘Abuser’,and have to pay..The Mother always the ‘Victim’ …And by the way,she did say ‘No’ to a D.N.A test….As I predicted.

    She said to him I know my rights, and as far as I am concerned ‘You’ are named as the Father on the birth certificate…Get over it…And pay….

    Oh I was there when she said this to him……..

    Hence….’Tongue in Cheek’ …So glad I had the ‘Snip’ one of the best decisions I ever made in my Life

    ‘yet men can’t prove their innocence when men can’t get a paternity test without the women’s permission. If she doesn’t give it, he’s stuck paying child support for 19 years or until the child is 16 and gives their own permission.’

    Oh ,a question for Miss/Mrs/Mr I.R.D Nazi hopefully she/He can answer this one…

    If the so called Father does get permission from the Child when it turns 16 for a D.N.A paternity test and it come back that he is not the real Father…

    Does he,as the so called Liable Parent get a total refund of all the Child Support he as paid ….??????…

    Why do I get this gut feeling the answer is ….’No’….Maybe I can be pleasantly surprised, if the answer is..’Yes’….

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Tue 23rd February 2010 @ 2:02 pm

  35. In NZ law, a man has taken the mother (Maybe in circumstances such as your own) or was it the child, any wat the court had all the necessary technology available. The child was declared a ward of the state and the mother ordered to prove it was hers. As a ward of the state, the court could allow the tests! Once complete the court renounced it’s wardship! I can’t remember the outcome, and its a lot of messing around!

    Comment by Alastair — Tue 23rd February 2010 @ 3:01 pm

  36. John Dutchie asks: If the so called Father does get permission from the Child when it turns 16 for a D.N.A paternity test and it come back that he is not the real Father…

    My understanding is that the I.R.D. can create a debt under the name of the fraudulent recipient of child tax and refund that balance to the payer. That is what an I.R.D. officer explained to me when I believed that my ex-wife was collecting child tax from me that she wasn’t entitled to receive.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Tue 23rd February 2010 @ 3:09 pm

  37. he should get a full refund and then some! Especially seeing that if you have no idea you have a child, then you get named as a father and say the kid is 17 then you have to pay 17 years of child support!

    Comment by Scott B — Tue 23rd February 2010 @ 3:24 pm

  38. Check out the story about a Picton care support worker, Juanita Crossland, being disgusted that a MAN wouldn’t make a sacrifice yet doesn’t criticise any woman for behaving similarly.

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 9:25 pm

  39. I’m sick of all this women and children are special and men are diposable attitude. (I agree that children are special, but men and women are equal) Feminists think otherwise. Men are lower class citizens. How often do we hear on the news something like 300 people were killed, 20 were children and 10 were women… uh what about the 270 men?

    And yes you’re right, why isn’t she upset about the women not getting off the plane? How did this make it into the media? Why wasn’t she asked about that?

    So now men aren’t allowed to sit next to children on planes and are expected to get off? What happened to women and children first? (tongue in cheek there)

    I hope before she talked to the press she asked every man AND woman on the plane why they didn’t get off. Perhaps they had sick children/parents/animals to get back to? Operations of their own? I bet she didn’t… just another feminist smelling a non issue that could be turned into a story.

    Why are we not hearing of why it took the woman in her thirties so long to get off the plane? I mean geez… she could have got off straight away, but no, she dragged it out so long and that poor boy suffered!

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 9:42 pm

  40. Poor journalism for the follwoing reasons:

    “The pilot asked for one volunteer passenger to get off and although the plane was full of men not one offered.

    Mrs Crossland said eventually Pete’s mother Rebecca Thompson, who also accompanied her son to hospital, volunteered to get off the plane but the pilot said she needed to be with her son. Another woman in her thirties then volunteered and the plane took off.

    So, how was the plane full of men when there were at least 2 women ?

    I liked the comments better than the story, especially this one:

    How come ANZ didn’t offload all the passengers back to the terminal until the delayed time? How come ANZ was loaded over-weight? How come Starship released the kid as fit to fly, if he wasn’t? Out of sight, out of mind? And the kid needed a caregiver and a mother? Was ANZ advised of the health issue prior to checking-in? And when the reservation was made? Sorry, but without more information, the reported rant just makes me angry.

    Sounds like the commentator could teach the story writer a thing or two.
    I also to see that the story comes under NZPA. Journalist nicely hidden there….

    Comment by noconfidence — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 10:07 pm

  41. “I also to see that the story comes under NZPA. Journalist nicely hidden there….”

    Noticed that too!

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 10:12 pm

  42. Also I am sure the first draft just read men… not businessmen!

    Comment by Scott B — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 10:23 pm

  43. I found the original story:
    By Richard Miller for NZPA
    It seems that the caregiver has completed her course at the Women’s Refuge where one learns that MEN are disgustingly rude and abusive while women and children are victims.

    But she was not so happy with the businessmen.
    “They were disgustingly rude and abusive at the delay in front of the children and I thought it was totally unnecessary.”

    Comment by SicKofNZ — Wed 24th February 2010 @ 10:39 pm

  44. Reply to all

    The Lady stated the following article “Where has chivalry gone?”….

    I can answer that one ‘Feminism’ has successfully destroyed it…

    I can remember at my Gym ,when two Feminists told me that a Man been so called ‘Chivalrous’ was considered by Feminists in today’s society is acting in ‘Sexist’ manner…Go and figure peoples…!!!!!!

    Kind regards John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 25th February 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  45. John Dutchie… we have all experienced that. I remember getting yelled at for holding a door open for a woman. That has actually happened more times than I can remember. Funny thing is that I hold doors open for men and children too! I thought it was just a polite thing to do. But apparently I am being sexitst, aggressive and oppressing! Silly me, I should have known!

    Comment by Scott B — Thu 25th February 2010 @ 1:21 pm

  46. Reply to Scott B

    …Likewise too Scott I am not a so called Gentleman anymore here in New Zealand…

    Too many times I also have been told off by Kiwi Woman that I am a ‘Male Chauvinistic’ pig or a ‘Male Sexiest Pig’…

    And again then I hear from some Kiwi Woman complain why aren’t there any Gentleman around…I have just totally given up on Kiwi Woman and after my horrific experience,and also my ex brother law experience which was lot worse them mine,both of us, were falsely accused of inappropriate sexual misconduct behavior on our own Children by our ex partners …I will never, ever trust a a Kiwi Woman again……

    Hence in two years and four months time ….I am out of here….!!!!..Yes ,still in count down mode…L.O.L

    Kind regards to you Scott B…John Dutchie

    Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 25th February 2010 @ 1:37 pm

  47. I have been in discussion with NZPA regarding this article…

    Comment by noconfidence — Thu 25th February 2010 @ 1:42 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar