Symposium on Male Studies
A gathering of academicians drawn from a range of disciplines will meet on April 7, 2010, at Wagner College, Staten Island, New York, to examine the declining state of the male, stemming from cataclysmic changes in today’s culture, environment and global economy. The live teleconferenced colloquium will be chaired by Lionel Tiger, PhD, Rutgers University Charles Darwin Professor of Anthropology. It will encompass a broad range of topics relevant to the study of boys and men in contemporary society ranging from their roles in the family and workforce, as well as their physical and emotional health, to the growing problem of misandry–the hatred of males, an unacknowledged but underlying socio-cultural, economic, political and legal phenomenon endangering the well-being of both genders.
Where has that ‘submission’ article gone? Why would the ‘site god’ want to remove it? Has it hit a nerve with the POWERS that be? Obviously it did what the author intended it to do. The words ‘hook line and sinker’ come to mind.
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 3:31 pm
Reply to Paul
Good call Paul….Note….The same happen when a particular article disappeared when ex Lady politician Son was found not guilty of rape in Dunedin…That thread was quickly pulled too……
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 3:40 pm
I wonder what hidden issues have surfaced. Best put them to one side and get on with it
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 3:46 pm
MP, you are the only person who I’ve deleted. But you must admit you deserved it.
You had free reign on lots of other posts but thought you were welcome to do the same to something I wrote and considered important. How wrong you were. (wink)
But even though I deleted your comments from an important thread, I gave you another thread to let your anger out on.
I think I was fair to you. (smile)
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 5:10 pm
When you get around to writing your own articles, you’ll realise you can withdraw them yourself. There is no God. This is a site of ordinary people.
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 5:15 pm
@Julie:
I have actually just had a quick read on what I’ve missed the last day or 2.
You deleted the wrong person, and in doing so seemed to attract a huge backlash, with the whole forum deteriorating, and then if you were going to use these ‘deletion powers’ for “good”, you didn’t.
With regard to you deleting me,
I didn’t swear, I didn’t threaten, I just pointed out a fact: The fact being that I was relieved that “0” men, or persons chose to leave a comment for your November 2009 story for 4 months. You yourself told me to have a good read, before I made one more comment, so I respected your instruction.
What you deleted:
“I also saw another one of your contributions in November 2009, filed at 4.30pm:
“The rape industry claims another victim — Kevin Driscoll’s story
Filed under: General, Law & Courts, Sex Abuse / CYF – julie @ 4:14 pm”
with your take on it.
And I noted that despite your attempts to re-victimise the raped and sodomised woman, that the comments were “0?. Not even one man in November 2009 sought to join you in this attack on your fellow-woman.
This has restored my faith in this site.”
By deleting this comment, it seemed you achieved your effect: You invited a backlash not from me, but others, and even I was taken aback, but I haven’t obviously been coming here as long, so who knows whats gone on before.
I must say, I’m no longer “engaged.” I am saddened by what censorship achieved. It achieved “manipulation”: You delete me, who merely pointed out a fact, but you don’t delete the other stuff.
If you had left me undeleted, then I don’t know if people would have finally got to the end of their tether….
I really am saddened, AGAIN. When I was here, there was good debate. When I left, look what happened.
At least, reflect before you dive straight back in.
Someone that has “control” issues will not be able to take “pause.”
Aside/
Who is Judge Dread?
Is he a new person to this site, or has he come here before. I really want to know, and please don’t go thinking it is me.
I just want a simple answer to a simple question.
Has this Judge Dread been to this site before the last few days?
Comment by Mary Poppins : — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 6:14 pm
No shit!!!!!
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:03 pm
A woman having powers to delete content on a mens site?
Hold on, am i missing something?
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:07 pm
Julie has certain administration rights and so do I. What’s the problem? This site is about men’s issues. That concerns women too. Every mens’ group and fathers’ group I have come across has vocal women inside them. Often they hold senior or administrative roles. It’s just another illustration of what we are really about.
So what are you missing?
Comment by Dave — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:20 pm
I’m sorry I spoke. I should know my place. Apologies
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:26 pm
Yes, you’re missing a lot. NZ is a social country and men and women are equal here. Every person on this site who writes articles is responsible for the comments on their articles. If spam appears, they are responsible for deleting the spam.
I took it upon myself to delete MP’s comments on a post I wrote because they were sooo off topic, she was a liability.
But best you don’t comment on anything I post Paul. I have been helping the Japanese government for the past 4 years I’ve been here and I can tell you now, women are no longer less than men over there either.
But good on you for falling for MP’s trick. I guess your ego can’t help but pull a woman down.
BTW, have you seen this site.
. It’s perfect for you backwards men.
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:31 pm
Sorry Paul, too late.
Haha. Here’s your place. They’d love to find a man to represent them well in NZ. Jim Bailey isn’t doing too well. But stay off my articles.
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:44 pm
Paul; Just out of curiosity.. what country are you from ? Perhaps if you told us a little about your background we might understand where you are coming from.
Until then your sarcastic remarks will just treated as such.
Comment by noconfidence — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:46 pm
Hi Julie;
Can I just point out that you said..
I can understand you are rather tired of the crap being posted by these feminazis and male chauvinists but perhaps that could have been better worded.. 🙂
Comment by noconfidence — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 7:50 pm
Yes, I could have worded things differently. Sorry for not doing so.
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:03 pm
That’s not fair Julie. Your assumptions about me are without thought or merit. I am not assuming you are a bad person in fact over the last 12 months or so I have enjoyed your contributions to this site. Furthermore I had no idea as to the sex of the person who deleted said article. My point was that it is dangerous to censer articles submitted to this site (within reason of course) on the basis that they don’t fit into the personal criteria of some members. In 2003 JP offered me heaps of support, a place to discuss my concerns, ongoing networking opportunities with other men who had lost their homes and children, legal advise and ongoing phone consultation. MENZ in Northcote saved my sanity and in turn I support this organization 100 per cent so lay off the personal attack stuff please.
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:05 pm
OK point taken. nonconfidence.
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:08 pm
What is a ‘social country’ Julie?
Comment by rc — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:17 pm
I feel just awful Paul for my comments to you. You copped my anger from something else going on with someone else attacking me offline.
I really am so, so sorry.
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:39 pm
In retrospect Julie these nasty comments tell much more about you than they do about me.
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:48 pm
Yes, well, just stay off my posts anyways, 🙂 We both have to sacrifice for the bigger picture, eh! (wink)
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 8:55 pm
@Paul, julie et al…
I refered to “wedging” in a previous thread.
Please all look up the expression “wedge politics”.
I’m seeing it before my eyes.
Comment by gwallan — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 9:07 pm
To add…
I know several men originaly from NZ who are survivors of sexual abuse. Up until a week ago I was considering linking them to MENZ. No longer. It wouldn’t be safe for them here at the moment.
Comment by gwallan — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 9:18 pm
Gwallan, with due respect to you , where are all these Asian wives of MRAs? Why am I sticking up for MRAs when they brag how wonderful their wives are yet their wives don’t show any care for them by speaking out?
Why do western women have to get the brunt and are expected to speak out when men say Asian women are the best in the world? Where are all these Asian women online sticking up for western men?
Comment by julie — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 9:53 pm
Yes; It seems to be – but not with intention. More like lack of focus at least on my part.
Comment by Paul — Thu 1st April 2010 @ 10:14 pm
Presumably in Asia. Why ask me?
I can’t answer that for you. That’s something only you can determine. I don’t stick up for them. Remember I tend to tell men that they need to learn to say “no” to women. I certainly don’t tell them to go somewhere else and say “yes” to the women there.
You’re asking two questions here.
Western women “get the brunt” because they gave us feminism AND, as I believe you would acknowledge, the system tends to give men the rough end of the pineapple often as a consequence of that feminism. Their anger – and we have discussed this before if you recall – is as predicatable as the sun coming up in the morning.
The second part is a little more peculiar and I find the “debate” surrounding it gets a bit too close to racism for my taste. Both ways.
Fair question. But it’s just as reasonable to ask similar questions regarding the likes of Mary Poppins or Blah. Where’s the support from those they regularly and overtly claim to agree with them?
You know what my specific interests are. You know I work for those who have been hurt, often very seriously hurt. It’s typical for such people, male or female, to seek places of safety and to construct barriers around themselves for protection almost like suits of armour. Those barriers can take many forms including aggressive and even exaggerated rhetoric. The recent interlopers may very well be harmed individuals but they couldn’t possibly have come here seeking a safe place. Indeed they have turned it into a place that, at the moment, could be very unsafe for those I care about.
In a couple of weeks I will be seeing one of those kiwi survivors I mentioned. He has been trying for years to see his abusers brought to justice but has been getting the runaround from the New Zealand police and courts for years. In fact I seem to recall sending you an email last year about him. I didn’t follow up at that time because once again he travelled over only to find the cops were leading him on – AGAIN. His pain and frustration is agonising to see. It had been my hope, with his and your permission, to connect him with you even if only so that he could know he had a friend and ally in his home country. I may still do that. But there is no way I could send him to this website at this point in time, certainly with the likes of Blah and Mary Poppins around. That’s a shame because it is a mens’ site. It should be a safe place for somebody like him.
I will repeat – you and this collective are being wedged at the moment and very successfully wedged at that.
Comment by gwallan — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 1:06 am
Gwallan,
I hear you! and I can appreciate where your coming from. Even the webmaster of this site is aware where you’re coming from.
The only way you can make this site a safe place for those who are seriously harmed, is to moderate it profusely. No-one has the time to moderate sites like this and I’m sure you’ve noticed how in the end Glenn Sack’s stopped all comments to get around the problem.
I too have a specific area I want to work in and I had decided recently that I need another avenue so the kind of people I’m looking to connect with can join in.
I’m sorry that lately things have got out of hand here but I strongly feel the efforts we have all put in over time have had an impact and readers would have appreciated the knowledge.
Comment by julie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 9:20 am
Reply to Julie
Julie, maybe I can answer that question for you,having lived and worked in Thailand for nearly two years, also I have a quite a few Asian Lady friends here in New Zealand, and in Thailand, there culture is quite different to ours…Asian Ladies on the whole,do not meddle or interfere with Men’s and Father affairs…Nor do they meddle or comment on another Countries internal politics and policies …
Happy Easter to you, and your Family Julie..John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 9:22 am
Reply to Julie
‘Yes, you’re missing a lot. NZ is a social country and men and women are equal here’…
Julie, with no disrespect to you…No I really do beg to differ with your above statement…Personally and just my humble opinion in this issue,here New Zealand is now a Country designed to cater for Woman and Mothers…Men have and Fathers have slipped well behind to become to treated like second class citizens…And quite frankly with all this Kiwi radial Feminism, I will stand my ground on my comment …. Men and Fathers have been ‘Demonizes to hell and back’ by this Kiwi radical social engineering Feminism…
And it quite funny Julie, at my Gym the amount of young Kiwi professional Men I have noticed,last year and this year that are loving relationship with Foreign Woman from Eastern Europe,India and from Asia..Can I blame them Julie…????..No..Good on them,and I can understand why too…But deep down I am deeply sadden by this development…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 9:36 am
Dear Julie,
Opal is Thai, therefore asian.
Isn’t Opal the rock at my side?
Would I have survived or been another male statistic from the onslaught of Family and Criminal proceedings without her love and support?
Hasn’t she welcomingly opened her home to strangers in need?
And the list goes on.
As you have seen for yourself personally, Opal has been extremely supportive of MRA, but does it the most effective way that she can, presumably like most asian partners / spouses from within.
Kind Regards
Paul Catton
271 3020
Comment by Paul Catton — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:22 am
To John Dutchie,
You make a good point John. Women and mothers are well organised here in NZ and men and fathers are well behind.
Absolutely.
I don’t blame men. I didn’t marry my own race so I’m the last to say it’s wrong. In Sweden men go for foreign wives and women go for foreign husbands because they’re not happy with each other. African American males are going for white women and foreign women and they are trying to get African American women to mix with other races so they can also marry. I hear some Maori men are going for Muslim women. I think it has a positive for I think it’s good to have all cultures as one human race.
Comment by julie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:34 am
And you are another moving to Thailand 🙂 You are happy with Opal and she seems happy with you. I wish you both all the best and think she has been very supportive of you.
Comment by julie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 11:40 am
There are other ways. Requiring registration before posting at all might be one of those(I’ve only registered in the past week but have been posting for two years). Outright banning of users IPs if they overstep the mark repeatedly is another. A message on the “About” page alerting women and feminists of the likelihood that they will potentially find some of the venting offensive may not go astray.
I’ve written frequently about how forcing formally male only organisations to become gender neutral has robbed men of the opportunity to connect and share their issues. Environments where men have that opportunity, including the chance to vent without female intrusion, are now very scarce. I would prefer they had the chance to do it on a relatively anonymous website rather than doing it more publically which is the potential outcome. Personally I dislike much of what I see and tend to work around it but, as I’ve said, it’s entirely predicatable.
In his instance it resulted mostly from right/left wing political dispute rather than the gender political.
If you want to see what happens when environments try to be feminist-friendly I’d suggest checking out the recent antics at Feminist Critics.
Comment by gwallan — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 9:14 pm
Gwallan, I think you should e-mail the webmaster and explain what you want and how you’re prepared to pull it off.
I don’t have a problem with this site being men only.
Comment by julie — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 10:26 pm
By here I think you meant this web site but it reads as here meaning NZ.
“NZ is a social country” Hmmmm……. is it?
It is socialist but that is something else entirely.
Is it social? I think this could be argued both ways.
What is a social country?
Does a social country alienate half it’s popultion?
Deny nearly half it’s children a father?
Then largely avoid discussing these issues?
No the reality NZ is not a social country. East Timor is arguably more social than NZ.
Comment by Dave — Fri 2nd April 2010 @ 11:52 pm
I am competely blown away at the things I read about. I know alot of people and I dont see this sort of thing happen often. Not even in our tiny community of 2500 people!! My family is as disfunctional as the next and we most certainly dont class ourselves as a normal family. We have broken marriages in our family and we have together marriages. But none of this happens where our children cant see father nor mother. All are rational. We have a saying in our family “The more the merrier”. For our children whos mums and dads arent together anymore, the children are blessed that they have 2 mums and 2 dads and 4 grandparents! They are a bit greedy and also say more presents at birthdays and christmas. But all our children are loved and are happy and content.
Exactly where did this all go wrong, is what I want to know!!
Women wanted equal rights and they got it. But somewhere along the way it got carried away and some women went on to wanting men wiped out!
Men dont want women to have equal rights and now they are battling for it to go back to the way it was. Full control of the women.
NZ women are hated upon because they are so strong and diverse (if thats the right word to use) .
We are going to completely wipe ourselves out as a race soon. The next world war will be not country vs country. But man vs women!!
I will start building a bunker tomorrow as I dont want my family to be apart of any of it!
Comment by Blah — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 12:36 am
julie,
I’m also not sure what you mean by saying NZ is a social country. Dave asks pertinent questions, the answer to which is I believe it’s a socialist-feminist country.
That’s a large part of the reason I have no interest in living there. For when I add up all the taxes I pay – income tax, GST, tax on petrol etc etc I’m working til lunchtime before I start to earn anything to keep for myself. The, and here’s the rub far more of our collective tax take which goes into the government coffers then gets spent by government on women than men. It makes no sense for me to pay for my own sexes economic and cultural oppression. Besides which it’s all a bit pathetic and sad seeing so many people stooping to being dependent on the nanny state instead of being adult enough to stand on their own two feet economically. It’s seems a sort of vicious circle is in progress too whereby people get taxed so heavily that many become discouraged from trying to earn more. I know I did. For quite a long time I used to think “bugger it, what’s the point in me breaking my back to advance professionally when it’ll mean others who are riding the system will reap the benefit whilst myself and other men will just be left in harness like donkey’s being flogged under a heavy load. All the rhetoric I hear from some kiwi women about their so called independence strikes me as immature twaddle – fact is they live in a country replete with a plethora of conveniences devised, built and maintained by the menfolk of NZ. Then to add insult to injury too many of them suck off the titty of the state in all manner of ways – benefits, study grants, top ups to part time income, subsidized housing, all manner of health-care services provided solely for their sex only…and still they bitch and moan that they’re the oppressed ones! It makes my stomach turn. I know I’ve posted this kind of comment before, so thanks for bearing with me – I post it here for those newcomers who haven’t been exposed to this kind of perspective before.
I know this kind of rort isn’t confined to NZ, which is where I bring things back to the topic of the thread – the symposium on male studies in the USA. For I know also that things are even worse for men in USA right now under Obama (see here for some of the reasons I hold that view).
I hope therefore that the symposium is a great success in exposing the gouging of USA men and that academically and culturally there is a positive pro-male roll on effect for NZ society.
Comment by Skeptik — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 2:51 am
Reply to Blah
L.O.L ..Blah for once I concur with you on statement But ‘man vs women!!’…But with a vital factor it will be a War betwixt Man and Western European Woman…And It already happening…I really noticed a lot of young Kiwi professional Good Men are turning right of Kiwi Woman with there Femi Nazi ‘You shall Obey’ type of attitude and mentally … and forming relationships with foreign Woman from Eastern Europe…India…Asia…And good on them,
Last night I over heard a group of single ‘Kiwi Femi Nazis’ discussing that it should be Illegal for Kiwi Men to marry Foreign Woman,because of this so called Man drought…
Then I really ripped into them, and told them, they are brought this ‘mess’ upon themselves with all this Kiwi Femi Nazi social engineering…So take a look at your self in the mirror…Would I as Man,already been badly burnt by the Femi Nazi get involved with your Double standards
Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 12:01 pm
Whoops hit the key again…!!!L.O.L..To finish off….
‘Would I as Man,already been badly burnt by the Femi Nazi Justice system want get involved with your ‘Double standards’…No way .!!!..So F@3k off then,and complain to your beloved ‘The Ministry of Femi Nazi Woman affairs of N.Z’…Yes, then a very heated argument occurred,because I so called insulted ‘Feminism’…Oh Dear what a Shame…Not….!!!!
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 12:06 pm
NZ women are hated upon because they are so strong and diverse (if thats the right word to use) .
…….What….!!!…Pardon Me..!!!.What load of pure Verbal Diarrhea crap that is …!!
Yeah Kiwi Woman are strong alright, as in with there ‘I am the victim’ mentally..Thus, I will ripped you off,I will financially destroy you and bankrupt you ,and take the Children away from you,and poison there minds that you are a the Abuser and I am the sweet and innocent Victim ,I will make your life sheer hell in the Family courts where I will Win because the Law is totally on my side….
For it is my ‘Kiwi’ Femi Nazi right to do so….Do you want to hear more Blah…’Strong’ my Ass…More like ‘Evil Vultures’….
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 12:16 pm
took the words right out of my mouth
Comment by paul — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 12:28 pm
Wedge Politics
Why your comment is incorrect-at least in regard to me.
The strategy of wedge politics: The first step is to identify a wedge issue, identify a community that you want to divide and use that issue to divide that community against each other in hopes of squeezing out additional votes in the process.
1. Identify the wedge issue.
2. Identify the community you want to divide.
3. Divide the community against each other in the hopes
of squeezing out additional votes in the process.
Theres one hell of a lot of assumptions you have about me considering the fact you have no idea who I am so have got a clue who your making these accusations against.
Comment by Paul — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:04 pm
it should read NOT got a clue
Comment by Paul — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:06 pm
Reply to Julie
Personally Julie ,and I am very deadly serious on what I am going to say here …!!!
Every decent,caring,decent,honorable and hard working Single/Separated/Divorced Kiwi Man should move to Thailand…
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:11 pm
Yes, every hard working man should move to Thailand where they can’t own property and have to put title into a Thai National’s name, and therefore grow the Thailand economy.
And that is how you grow the National Economy. Thai woman are so much smarter than Kiwi women… they don’t go for 50%, they go for 100%,… and I guess if they’re getting 100% that’s why they find it easy to charm and charm away the vulnerable…., the grieving….
Comment by Mary Poppins : — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:16 pm
Yes, Lawyers and Judges in Family Court use wedge politics to make as much money as they can out of the vulnerable.
The current Police Minister doesn’t blame the moon for increased violence statistics like the last Police Minsiter Annette King, but Judith Collins is happy for violence statistics to keep increasing, because it is just the “dysfunctional families” fault.
No, its wedge-politics strategies.
Comment by Mary Poppins : — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:20 pm
Reply to Mary
Correct Mary, and then they don’t have to put up with this Vile evil Kiwi Femi Nazi Feminism social engineering crap…..
Kind regards John Dutchie
Comment by John Dutchie — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 1:22 pm
I am stating facts, and unfortunately, because some men keep their brains in their pants, they get really upset later and hence we get an increase in violence. Two of the deaths in Fiji, were exactly because of this situation. An Australian man who realised his Indian wife was still seeing her boyfriend, and had filed for divorce went bullistic when he realised he had been conned and was going to lose half of his assets. He strangled her and his her in the bush, but later he was sent to prison for 18 years.
Comment by Mary Poppins : — Sat 3rd April 2010 @ 2:01 pm
Hey Dutchie,
Don’t worry Mary’s Poppin again.
Some of the farangs in Thailand are smart enough to know how to navigate the Thai system without getting burnt by gold-digggers. And it’s very easy once you know how.
I’m not going to tell you how to do that here as that’s between you and I. Also I’m certainly not going to reveal my true identity but stick with my pseudonym for reasons I’ve already explained. But we’ll figure out a way to connect and then I’ll put you in the picture if you don’t already know.
Kia kaha bro.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:17 am
A short article related to this thread is here.
Comment by Skeptik — Sun 4th April 2010 @ 12:37 pm