MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Women driven to abortion

Filed under: Child Support,General — Ministry of Men's Affairs @ 11:02 pm Sat 30th June 2012

An article in today’s NZ Herald by Simon Collins gives publicity without challenge or analysis to claims by a previous MENZ Issues poster, Julie Whitehouse, that women will be driven to have abortions or to hide their new babies from authorities by planned changes to the DPB.

NZ Herald: Women being ‘driven to abortion’ by welfare reform

But Ms Whitehouse, whose group organises social activities and support meetings for sole parents, says some of her members fear that any woman who gets pregnant while on welfare will be “in trouble”.

“A number of young women who are pregnant don’t follow politics. They have been afraid that they are going to be forced to abort their babies,” she said. “What I see is that they are going to hide these babies. These beneficiaries are afraid of being pushed into work.”

FYI: My letter to Simon Collins


  1. women still want a free ride without responsibility..oh the poor victims

    Comment by Ford — Sun 1st July 2012 @ 12:09 am

  2. Well said, Hans.

    Comment by golfa — Sun 1st July 2012 @ 10:19 am

  3. IF Julie is reporting what her ‘clients’ are actually saying, it is a valuable insight into the lack of their thinking as well as their ‘entitlement’ attitudes.

    If on the other hand it is Julie’s assumption or simplistic interpretation, then it serves no-one any good.

    Of course, whatever she said is provided to us by a newspaper journalist, one of class of people quite deaf and subject to flights of newspaper-selling fancy, not to mention hyperbole and mendacity.

    I can quite imagine some women, particularly young ones, having such ‘scared’ views and resorting to strange emotional threats, and perhaps they need to be addressed in a mature way, even if it does mean them having to ‘bite the bullet’ and suffer the consequences of their decisions.

    Comment by amfortas — Mon 2nd July 2012 @ 9:11 pm

  4. I might add that in earlier times there was a sound societal use of a normal human emotion called ‘shame’ which stood against such ‘threats’ and abortion itself. But a generation of women have been ‘driven’ to shamelessness by Feminists intent on women’s self-destruction. That will happen in due course, in the longer term, but in the meantime feminists are content to see child destruction in the shorter term.

    Comment by amfortas — Mon 2nd July 2012 @ 9:15 pm

  5. This is embarrassing Hans.

    I phoned Michael Laws on radio the other day saying a friend told me he was speaking about me. He’s ummm, gosh… I have only read about the man and yet he was asking me if either I or Simon is a liar.

    Neither of us are a liar and it’s terrific to see ‘forced abortion’ in the limelight.

    The problem with men’s rights and women’s rights is that those who agree to a decision are fine with it, while those who are forced into a position feel their autonomy is taken away, and they don’t respond well. How different is it when a man is forced to leave the home he built and all the possessions he worked hard for and the woman who is forced to hand her children over and abort the baby she carries?

    Y’know, I have spent 5 years caring for fathers and heaps of research was happening. Look at how you have national attention now. Isn’t it great?

    Please be as kind back and understand we have only 2 research and are just starting in the health sector cause National has been kind to give in this area. We are years behind you.

    Comment by julie — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 7:02 pm

  6. Abortion is an issue that will be debated probably with much heat until men can bear a woman’s child! probably good to get the debate going again.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 7:38 pm

  7. Gwaihir, this isn’t a menz issue. You embarrass me by choosing the small piece in the Herald rather than the 2 page A3 story about single mothers working.

    But then, none of you represent the fathers in the article. I am a better representative of the fathers involved in this than any of you here, IMO.

    Comment by julie — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 7:47 pm

  8. You forget Julie, I was a single father in another time. I raised children, who in turn are now successfully married raising their own children I do admit that conditions today make it seem like I was on another planet.

    I do support many of your dreams. They used to be much easier, they worked. But then we all shared love and respect.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 8:03 pm

  9. Maybe Im missing something Julie
    But your chosen article on single mothers working seems to be all about someone already on the DPB who then went and got pregnant again.
    The cavalier attitude to the fathers in the given situations appears that the mummies never gave much consideration to the child having a father in their lives.
    ask yourself if the gummint wasnt paying the DPB would all these poor paragons of virtue be falling pregnant so quickly without a thought to contraception in the first place.
    I agree it takes two to handle contraception and in these case quoted if the condom failed, as no self respecting male or female would be having unprotected sex with a “one night stand hooked up with on the drink on a night out in Auckland” then if that was the only option utilised then the said paragons of virtue may need to look to their own culpability without the usual banshee wails that some uncaring brute got them pregnant.
    As for “forced abortion” My apologies but I dont see how telling someone that they might have to be responsible for the child they have created forces them to have an abortion unless they were relying on the state, aka taxpayer and fathers to supply them with the finances to live their lifestyle choices in the first place.
    As for your comment “I’m a better representative of the fathers involved in this than any of you here”
    Respectfully I disagree. Im not a mother and have never claimed to be. I wish the mothers could grant fathers the same respect.

    Comment by Mits — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 8:18 pm

  10. Thank you very much amfortas.

    Comment by Julie — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 8:19 pm

  11. All I know about this site is that it’s owed by John Potter who says he owes my words as a way to take my political power away.

    I can’t ever be someone because of John;s threats. I think it;s best if everyone who cares about my voice, give someone else credit.

    Comment by Julie — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 8:46 pm

  12. I also see 3 enormous Chasm’s between my experiences and today:-

    1. I had a sympathetic employer.

    2 The Occupation and Health act hadn’t been thought of. (Thank Heaven)

    3. I had an X that implicitly trusted me with our children! (Again my undying gratitude)

    Comment by Gwaihir — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 8:53 pm

  13. women being made to take responsibility for their actions..shock horror..if they learn the rules as men are made to and they do that and dont pregnant there wont be any forced abortions..its about time womens gravy train was cut off but not doubt theyll squeal victim and complain how manifestly unfair it is..and as for the 5 yr and 14 year age limits for working..the govt been squealing that shit for years..when are they actually going to enforce it is the question

    Comment by Ford — Tue 3rd July 2012 @ 9:25 pm

  14. Julie #11 says

    John Potter who says he owes my words as a way to take my political power away.
    I can’t ever be someone because of John;s threats.

    John Potter is wondering what on earth you are talking about, as no doubt are many other MENZ readers.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 9:48 am

  15. #14..i think she is fantasising about being your victim

    Comment by Ford — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 11:19 am

  16. Oh my gosh! Women actually have some time limits placed on their tax pay funded life style. Dear or dear. How will they cope the poor things. Oh they don’t follow politics. Oh dear. That doesn’t seem to stop them being fully aware and feeling entitled to a free ride on the tax payer does it. If they are old enough to choice to have a baby then they are old enough to deal with the consequcnes themselves.

    Comment by Vman — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 12:57 pm

    heres another free ride in the making
    free doctors if your a female?

    Comment by Ford — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 3:03 pm

  18. Careful there Ford. A few years ago I had a brush with Male only version of Cancer. Diagnosis to completion of treatment, 6 months and absolutely free. Couldn’t have asked for better care.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  19. what country was that in?..i went to the docs the other day and got charged for my consultation and then charged again to get the results..hows that for money grabbing garbage

    Comment by Ford — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 4:52 pm

  20. p.s..and i still left the surgery none for wiser

    Comment by Ford — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 4:54 pm

  21. New Zealand, However hospitals in the smaller centres – where I live.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 5:17 pm

  22. Forgot tp Add I do Have a Gold Card – Thank you Winstone!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 5:19 pm

  23. John (#14): I could make little sense of any of her recent posts. And I don’t know what to make of that fact. Hope she’s ok.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 9:04 pm

  24. I have become aware Julie has been very ill. Likely over work with all that little lady achieves. Let us all offer our full support for a speedy recovery.

    Comment by Gwaihir — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 9:10 pm

  25. I agree Ford (#17). I heard this Professor on the radio offering his (unresearched) explanations for his findings (which I mistrust until I have read his methodology). It seems that the reason men don’t go to the doctor much is their macho foolishness, but when research shows women don’t buy their prescribed medicines it’s attributed to women’s busy lives juggling numerous responsibilities, their brave management of low budgets and putting their children first. The truth is probably that many men don’t want to risk taking lots of time off work to deal with minor medical issues, and otherwise they are so busy trying to keep their wives and children happy that they forget to attend to their own health needs. And the reason some women don’t pay to get prescriptions filled is that they have spent their available money on shoes. Of course, the Professor is correct that many people on low incomes will struggle to pay for health care and prescriptions.

    Comment by Hans Laven — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 10:01 pm

  26. men dont forget..with all the financial constraints put upon them they couldnt afford to if they wanted to

    Comment by Ford — Wed 4th July 2012 @ 11:01 pm

  27. And not to forget that women don’t go to the doctor solely because they are sensible about their health. They go also because they enjoy being the centre of attention, especially from a high-status male whose job is to focus on her and sympathize with her every little problem. Literature is full of stories of physicians targeting women and making cosy lifestyles out of them – of course the medical profession is going to flatter their bread and butter, and blow cold over all us men who just never seem to get how important doctors are.

    To simply come out and say that men die younger because their lives are harder would be sacrilege.

    Comment by rc — Thu 5th July 2012 @ 2:01 pm

  28. Precisely the same trait that Lawyers employ to destroy those horrible violent Men who try to take away their children!

    Comment by Gwaihir — Thu 5th July 2012 @ 2:41 pm

  29. I would like to note that not all women hold the belief that proposed changes to the DBP are unfair and unjust. As a working solo mother I would be entitled to a year paternity leave should I choose to have another child, so why should a DBP recipient be entitled to a longer period (and paid to boot) before working to support her children.

    Comment by Megan — Thu 5th July 2012 @ 10:47 pm

  30. I just want to say that NZ hasn’t had a medium between left wing and right wing and that’s why many people like Prime Minister John Keys. 80% of people swing depending on issues and I reckon most us want this.

    I think its fair to care about all groups and I always said I cared about single parents both men and women.

    Do you know John Keys phones you and asks “What do you want” and “How can I make you go away”. It didn’t happen to me but it happened to our protestors.

    We have gained allot as women and men and we will gain as men against women and women against men. We are in a golden opportunity and it sickens me that people will bother to cut another at the knees instead of fight for a cause.

    If people blow this central government, then they deserve it. If they cut down others (you won;t) then they waste a moment that means allot.

    Comment by julie — Mon 9th July 2012 @ 7:35 pm

  31. Hans, thank you for saying what you did. I don’t know what to say but I’ve thought allot and realised allot.

    Comment by julie — Mon 9th July 2012 @ 7:40 pm

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