MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

Consciousness raising?

Filed under: Boys / Youth / Education,Men's Health — MurrayBacon @ 11:47 am Thu 1st May 2014

Recently, Downunder was discussing whether had any persuasive power at all. Other people had suggested that it is a waste of time, as nothing ever comes out of these discussions (they were taking an unrealistic short term, focus).

Downunder suggested that apart from the people taking part in the discussions, many other people kept a silent watch on the site and there is quite a bit of communication and educating going on.

I have often suggested that we are trying to communicate to the broadest public, in particular married men and also not yet married men. I hate seeing men fall into holes, that are well known. It is only when we can influence the wider population of voting men, that we have any hope of gaining political traction and being heard in debates that influence policy.

The women’s movement faced similar difficulties, 50 or 60 years ago. It took them 20 or 30 years of similar communication, persuading each other, infighting, to start to make substantial progress.

Perhaps we are facing an even harder problem, in that men are “meant” to be protectors, rather than being in need of help. Often we don’t like to admit that we have been taken advantage of, or been abused. Until we are realistic about these issues, about men’s mental health issues, that we can hope to get appropriate resources put into these issues. We also need to face up to damages that we have done to others.

Although many discussions are prickly, often the disagreements are due to people actually discussing adjoining topics, rather than the exact same topic. This is ok, we have to work through these difficulties, to pull together the real issues. Keep on discussing! Even then, we won’t always get consensus. This well illustrates the breadth of the issues we face in life.

Wikipedia Consciousness raising gives a useful history……..

In my opinion, through the last year, has raised the amount of educational info and also explored more of the murky, but necessary topics, that usually we find quite uncomfortable. I acknowledge that being able to post anonymously does help facilitate these more intimate debates, despite my usual challenges about fragmented identities. My thanks to all of these contributors.

What can we do to raise the consciousness raising power of this website further?
Is there any hope that we could achieve in 20 years, what women took 30 or 40 years to pull together?
Do we want to achieve what feminists did, or are our aims quite different?
Are we putting enough energy into face to face discussions? I suspect not…


  1. I wonder how far mans movement will go in terms of successfulness. Given the fact how this country is already tainted with feminism and so many women are involved in parliament. This country need reductions on relationship and sexuality out side of feminist ideaoligy. What I see at the moment is more family breakage more hate between the gender more bais to womens agender avoidance of marriage.

    Comment by Shinhee Yi — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 12:41 pm

  2. Well its the first site I ever found that had stuff on it that was relevant the rest manly is PC crap not even suited.

    Comment by Dominic da Silva — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 12:49 pm

  3. Write, write, and write some more. Those that want to know will read.

    Comment by Downunder — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 2:08 pm

  4. I also think this web is the only few mans right movement handles gender social issue. I seen many web just unloading hate speech some what like redical feminist. I really want to attend the conference orgenized by this site. I really want to see New Zealand change into gender neutral society where has no gender bias and gender wars.

    Comment by Shinhee Yi — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 2:31 pm

  5. Very true. Which also means there are some out there who will trawl through the site looking for quotes to discredit us – I try to bear that in mind when posting.

    Comment by Daniel — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 3:45 pm

  6. With all due respect to Web-host John Potter who has done a remarkable job hosting and moderating this site, I think the website could do with an overhaul to make it look more like a news website rather than a blog.
    A revamp would show yet more serious intent to press forward with men’s issues in the ace an often hostile anti-male or indifferent social environment.
    Sections of the website could include Videos,Podcasts, Forums, as well as the usual useful links to articles and other websites. The inability to give a thumbs up/like or a thumbs down/dislike to articles and comments is a major loss to me as well. I much prefer the layout and ease of navigation at sites like “A Voice for Men”, but as a New Zealander keep an eye on “MENZ” simply because there’s not really much alternative apart from the recently springing up Facebook pages pertaining to men’s issues in NZ.

    Comment by Skeptic — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 3:52 pm

  7. Sorry for the typos. I meant to say –

    “press forward with men’s issues in the face of an often hostile anti-male or indifferent social environment”.

    Comment by Skeptic — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 3:56 pm

  8. I can assure our readers that this site is well read by all sorts of people, When my charges of indecent assault [tonsil touching teacher] and assault on two police with a wheelbarrow were dismissed and this dismissal was recorded here, the Principal of my school received quite a nasty phone call from someone quite senior in the police. The actual phone call was expressing disapproval about how one of my classes had laughed [at the police or at me?] about the ridiculous nature of an assault with a wheelbarrow. I told this story here and the speaker to my Principal mentioned this site. The Principal told me about this. So free speech [or commenting] has some drawbacks even in this country. However it is still important to highlight injustices in every way possible.

    Comment by andrew — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 7:43 pm

  9. I am married man with two kids

    Married for nine years now.

    I still visit is forum and read daily bases.

    This forum gave me some insite on gender bias N.Z socaity became.

    I agree with skeptics idea of revemping this web with bit more of media.

    This community can become more active by meating off line and discussing more face to face.

    Korea where I was born is under going some brutal gender wars where one mans rights activist lost his life.

    It be nice to meet in groups I would like join the discussion off line in future if there is gathereing.

    Comment by Shinhee Yi — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 8:11 pm

  10. Thank you for the post Murray. Fantastic to see you raising the points you have. I have kept in contact with this site for sometime now and have enjoyed the experience, and being able to see others facing the same issues as myself. I have learnt a lot through reading the posts by regular contributors such as yourself, Allan, downunder etc. I agree with downunders comment,
    “Write, write, and write some more. Those that want to know will read”. Wise words.
    I have begun to work with Parents 4 justice in an attempt to bring to the attention of the general public and media the injustice that is the family court. We are being quite successful in our achievements so far, and are offering some ideas for changes, improvements, and alternatives to the current system.
    I am grateful to be able to post copies of the press releases we have sent out to this site, and although I know the content will never suit everyone I am happy that I am able to at least try to spread the word about the problems parents and children face by putting their faith and trust in a system, that cares only about itself and making $$$$$ for the lawyers and cottage industries that have sprung up around it.
    I agree that more people need to do more to make everyone fully aware of what is happening. The team at parents 4 justice will continue with our offerings going forward to see what we can do. I do appreciate all offering/comments from readers of MENZ and to those that will spread the word. And I look forward to the further contributions from the contributors to this site.

    Comment by roo — Thu 1st May 2014 @ 10:02 pm

  11. It’s people like myself, that have no family court issues to deal with, no child support to pay, no criminal history, IE the Feminazi have nothing to hold over me, the courts to threaten me with, the police to abuse thier powers with, and politicians to use as justification for thier bigotry. It is these people we must reach.
    Don’t talk to those that can’t listen (self interest), but those that can.

    The courts and Lawyers can’t, because they will have to put themselves in prison as a result.
    The media can’t because business’s cut advertising spending at any mention of men and justice.
    The police can’t, principly because they’re not hired for thier intelligence, and there is complex problems. Its also alot of fun to induce male offending, who wants to spoil that?
    Politicians can’t because there is 100s of thousands of men missing from society and the electoral role, that the female vote therefore overtly influences and dictates parliament and policy. The male politicians live in fear like puppet cowards at the thought of taking on the feminazi, and becoming just and uncorrupted, non bigoted citizens.

    It is the uninformed (indoctrinated), honest citizen that we must engage with. We must give them things that develope outrage, and contempt for what they have been indoctrinated into believing is true but is not.
    People inherently don’t believe (true but radical to thier own beliefs) statements when they hear them for the first time. Neither will they the second time with the same truth said in a different way. But the third, there mind will be free to believe it, they will feel safe to comment, they have the information to defend themselves against those that defy the truth.

    Imagine a co-ordinated letter drop (just in his electorate) outlining a crime that John Key (as Prime Minister) is commiting against young boy’s in his electorate. Then do it again with anouther crime. Then do it again with anouther crime. How many denials and ignoring the issues can he survive?

    Can the media ignore it for ever, when the Hero is proven to be the Villian?
    Can the citizens turn a blind eye to it forever, when they hear and see propaganda?
    Will citizens on polling day tick his box in good faith?

    Put the shoe onto thier feet!

    Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 25th June 2014 @ 4:11 pm

  12. We’ve been here before.

    Looking back on the argument.

    Comment by Downunder — Thu 8th November 2018 @ 11:44 am

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar