MENZ Issues: news and discussion about New Zealand men, fathers, family law, divorce, courts, protests, gender politics, and male health.

The Value of Your Own Legal-Worker?

Filed under: Law & Courts — MurrayBacon @ 7:13 pm Fri 13th June 2014

Out on the street with a message By Louis Houlbrooke NZ Herald 5:00 AM Friday June 13, 2014

The 61-year-old became a casualty of the leaky homes crisis after an apartment he bought in 1999 suffered water damage. When he disputed the repair bill, [his own] legal costs forced him into bankruptcy.

For Mr Young, who’s been homeless for 13 years, sign-waving isn’t just a way of passing the time. “I got the message from passers-by that ‘you’re a bum, get a job’. So I said to myself, ‘blow it, I’m going to concentrate and say a few things’.”

It is always important to have a workable legal strategy and a realistic budget, with more than 50% contingency remaining (personally 90% contingency is a minimum).

Each time you get your legal worker to do something, require that you are invoiced immediately afterwards and pay the bill. This way, you know exactly what your expenses are and how far through the process you might be.

Judge the value for money as you go, so that you can immediately change your legal worker, if they are failing to meet your minimum standard.

Most men suffer more damage from their own legal worker, than they suffer from the judge or the other party’s legal worker put together.

If you take on your legal worker on retainer, you will likely pay top dollar price and also pay for a soft number of hours to boot. Many customers simply run out of money, well before finishing the legal action that they started (hence the suggestion that if you don’t have 9 times more cash in bank than you think the legal action will cost, don’t start it).

One might hope for the very best service if paying a retainer. In practice however, most? legal workers feel under less pressure to work sharply and well, if they know they are holding a retainer. Conversely, if they know that every next task is your conscious decision, they are more likely to stay alert and awake on the job.

Certainly don’t accept any alligator offers, don’t pay us now, we can just take it out of the house sale, when that goes through. This leaves you with no workable options to dispute an unreasonable kill, which is why the alligator smiled so wide as he said it.

You almost certainly need to allow in your budget, to get second opinions at several points through the process. You need to ask an independent legal worker. This is easy to say and quite difficult to do. It is difficult to get independent advice, as they are mostly mates of each other. It is important to check that you are getting independent advice, you just pay good money for nothing, otherwise.

Lookup Chris Jones…. I understand that he paid top dollar for his legal services, but really he only got his rights through the caught$, when everything spilled out into public view, after several years. Look it up, it is a good warning.

So, it looks to me that there is a very hard lesson here. If you play by their secrecy rules, you leave yourself easy to take for a ride. If the issue is protecting your children, then following the secrecy rules, ends up failing to protect your children. Tough set of choices, if you deal with the mafia.

The caught$ only hurt people who take them seriously.
Take seriously the damage that they can do to you!

> Dealing with caught$ is gambling
> When you are having children, have a few spares, so you can afford to gamble, if you really have to.
> Only gamble with ex-wives you want to lose.

Are people willing to share war stories?
Several people have shown me piles of paper and said they cost $50,000, another $500,000. Did you get anything worthwhile? Just the paper……


  1. I have in my lifetime needed to hire (or, was bamboozled and young/naive and ignorant enough to hire) a lawyer/barrister twice.

    One was in a business dispute where I was defrauded of a large sum of money by a client.
    The second was ‘family caught’.

    Neither time did I achieve ANY sort of satisfactory remedy.

    In the business instance the guilty parties dragged the whole thing out over several years, disposed of the money in question and then declared bankruptcy. The “legal worker” cost me several tens of thousands of dollars.

    In the first ‘family court’ instance, my daughters Mum dragged things out well over a year, tried to claim legal aid, swapped her own “legal workers” several times and generally lead a merry jig all over the place that the “caught system” happily entertained on account of her being “the mother.”
    This instance also cost me several tens of thousands of dollars and garnered me a pitiful amount of time with my daughter via a parenting order that her mother frequently reneg’d on at her whim and the police would not enforce due to whatever their excuse of the day happened to be.
    Quote donut connoisseur 01; “It doesn’t have the blue stamp on it.”
    Quote donut connoisseur 02; “We don’t do that sort of thing, you’ll have to go back to the courts.”

    I have since been dragged back into “family court” several times by my daughters mother in her misguided, demented attempts to batter me about the head with any “authority” she can bend to her ear, each time I have flatly REFUSED to hire a “legal worker” and have instead represented myself.

    I’ll make the disclaimer here that I am not dispensing and would not presume to dispense “legal advice”. I have not tainted myself or destroyed my moral compass via any “law-school” so am not able to and will not consent to assimilating into part of “legal society”.
    All I can give is anecdotal experience on my part and my eventual epiphany that was, if you have half a head on your shoulders, are capable of doing your own diligence and can compose yourself in the face of ‘the storm’ then why have someone else dain to do this for you at an exhorbitant fee with a dubious level of lacklustre commitment?

    It required alot of reading, talking to people involved in the courts and comprehending more about my “rights” versus the “privileges” the state would seek to bestow, and “legality” versus “law” and familiarity with the terms “acquiessence” and “consent”.

    It also helped that after many, many years of my daughters Mum trying to repeatedly bang away at me like a obssesive compulsive, long-range woodpecker via the “caught system” and any other avenue she could concoct or con-into her madness, I have developed a VERY thick skin and Gandi-esk patience, … in a “family caught-room” that patience is golden.
    I would never have gone into a “caught-room” representing myself without being 100% certain I could hold my tongue under a rain of the most insidious unfounded libelous accusations from my daughters Mum.

    The most dangerous thing about courts for the unwary is that they practice “legality” and they speak “legalese”, it may SEEM like they are speaking common English but every word is tainted with alternative meaning to what you would normally perceive, every sentence is a potential minefield.
    This requires you analyse everything that is going on and to ask questions whenever you doubt something in a very calm, restrained, polite manner.

    In my experience the NZ “family court system” is about ONE thing and ONE thing only. REVENUE STREAM.
    Whether it is the core taxpayer funded system itself, the paid lawyer/barrister participants or all the whole galactic gobsh!te satelite circus of self-acclaimed ‘therapists’, councellors, LFC’s, and ticket-punching, agenda driven, child-support alphabet soup agencies.

    It is all about REVENUE STREAMS as is EVERY other single facet of the umbrella corporation that trades as “The Crown” and disingenuously purports to “represent” the interest of the people of this country.
    That corporation is there to feed the wealth extraction machine known as “The Reserve Bank of New Zealand” and the fraudulent fractional reserve, leveraged, fiat, monetary system it has founded its ample buttocks upon.

    If you are unlucky enough to have dealings with Child Support/IRD you will amply know ALL about revenue streams.
    Penalties, interest, applied in an unreasonable, irrational manners with seemingly no method or accountability, they cannot produce the same answer from their system twice in a row and not even the people administering the whole toppling folly can accurately explain to you how it supposedly *cough* – “works”.
    Representing the interests of “The Child” … bull$%#@ they are.

    Their goals are to mentally, physically and financially cripple individuals (predominantly fathers within the “family caught system”), force them into destitute neo-feudal servitude – and then keep them there.
    They aim to destroy ANY form of REAL, human support networks – including (especially) the family, – anything that may supercede the State as an individuals MAIN frame of reference, fall-back, or epicentre of their life.

    THAT is what this ENTIRE system is about.

    Comment by Depleted — Wed 9th July 2014 @ 10:28 pm

  2. Thanks for this post MurrayBacon. And a great piece of writing ‘Depleted’! I encourage everyone to check out the methods in the witch hunts. Accused were tortured until they admitted flying on brooms etc simply to achieve the relief of of a quick death through being burned alive. The inquisitor would get information about local residents’ wealth then ensure that those currently in custody were all made to tell consistent stories accusing their most wealthy townsfolk of broom flying etc. After they were all then inevitably burned at the stake their estates were seized by the local lord with a handsome cut for the inquisitor. Nice little gravy train. An accused’s guilt was allowed to be proven by various completely irrelevant ‘indicators’ of witch-hood such as birth marks, moles etc.

    Our justice system retains many aspects of that witch-hunt justice, and over recent decades more and more previous features of witch-hunting have been allowed to creep back in. The Family Court started that rot having always relied on superstition and witch-hunting methods. It is feminist ideology instead of religious superstition that drives the modern crusades in which people are allowed, once again, to prosecute and convict others on the basis of nothing but bone-pointing, interpreting any denial by an accused as evidence of guilt, relying on unscientific ‘indicators’ of guilt, spreading moral panic then advertising for people to join the crusade and celebrating their participation, manipulating and leading witnesses including children to make allegations or provide evidence against an accused in video interviews that are not under oath or scrutiny behind the scenes, then allowing that to stand as the evidence, and so forth. Chilling stuff when you come to realise it.

    Comment by Man X Norton — Wed 9th July 2014 @ 11:48 pm

  3. The Diary: Cairns rolls up sleeves to provide for family

    5:00 AM Wednesday Jul 30, 2014
    The Diary
    Former cricket star is now water-blasting bus stops for $17 an hour.

    With legal bills mounting, former cricket star Chris Cairns, 44, is out working for his family … any work.

    He is driving a council truck and water-blasting bus shelters around Auckland for $17 an hour, his best friend, Dion Nash, told The Diary.

    “He’s trying really hard and supporting his family the best way he can. He’s not moping around, he’s showing guts and doing hard work by cleaning bus shelters. All I can do is support him, but as a friend it is really hard to watch his name being dragged through the mud with no conclusion in sight. He’s a champion guy and he will come through this stronger,” Nash said.

    The manual labour is a far cry from the glitz and glamour of Dubai where the former high-flying Black Cap worked in 2010 as a diamond trader, using his skills to purchase the 3.2 carat rock with which he proposed to his third wife, Mel Croser.

    This week, the mother-of-two told a women’s magazine that her husband had resorted to taking the cleaning contract because “he has no choice, he has to provide for his family … We have bills to pay like everyone else. We don’t own a house, we’re paying rent like many other people and getting by is a struggle”.

    Cairns and his 34-year-old wife, who works fulltime in a project management role, live in exclusive Herne Bay, Auckland’s most expensive suburb, where neighbours include Karl Urban, David Cunliffe and best friend Nash.

    The father-of-four has steadfastly denied all cheating claims and patiently awaits resolution to the official investigation.

    Chris Cairns may have “won” his english defamation case regarding accusations of match fixing, but I understand that he received negligible legal costs or damages as the other party had little funds in England.

    To me, this made it look as though Cairns must have been guilty of match fixing, to be able to afford such an english court case?

    However, from his obvious present financial situation, it appears that he was a fool, who didn’t realise the true value of his own legal worker.

    He would have been better off to have just wasted a teency bit of money on sex workers or booze, had nothing to do with employing his own legal worker and kept a good life…… Some people seem to be slow to learn…..

    Better to look before you leap. Wise up before it is too late.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Wed 13th August 2014 @ 10:12 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment

Please note that comments which do not conform with the rules of this site are likely to be removed. They should be on-topic for the page they are on. Discussions about moderation are specifically forbidden. All spam will be deleted within a few hours and blacklisted on the stopforumspam database.

This site is cached. Comments will not appear immediately unless you are logged in. Please do not make multiple attempts.

Skip to toolbar