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Toothpaste accomplice.

Filed under: General — anon @ 12:34 am Mon 19th May 2014

Please can anyone help with this very difficult situation i am in ?

I am a tradesman here in chch and i have recently been accused and charged with assault.
My partner has started an argument when I returned late – and then after attacking me with an electrical cord and then a wall hung mirror, she then rubbed toothpaste into her chest and neck area then scratched through the toothpaste and gone to my neighbour and claimed that i assaulted her.she has claimed in her statement to police that she was grabbed by the throat and thrown to the ground then held down as she was savagely and repeatedly beaten with punches and kicks, yet she stated that she was somehow otherwise completely uninjured apart from a few scratches and redness to her chest and neck.
The police took a photo of her chest showing redness (rash)and scratches and decided her story was legitamate.(or didn’t care )
The evidence photo shows a few scratches and redness to her chest and neck. But it also shows something else very strange.Somehow oddly , the skin on her hands has changed in colour with a distict yellowing of the skin and a grey purple coluring to her knuckles which looks only similar to the skin on a dead body.I have a very similar skin type and only have experienced this colouring to my skin during severe cold conditions.And even then not nearly so severe. it wasn’t cold.
From some online research i have descovered that toothpaste contains mono laurel phosphate which is a surfactant or foaming agent. This surfactant is highly irritant when applied to skin and i surmise that toothpaste scrubbed into the chest area causes a form of dermal shock that causes blood to drain from limbs and rush to the chest area creating a rash and simulating injury.
Im certain that my partner has used this ploy before and I need to find evidence that the toothpaste has caused the strange skin discolouration. Or find those she has done it to.
I’ve never been accused of assault and have no other charges. Previous or current.

I spent 50 hours in custody.then returned home to find some of my belongings packed in my car and ordered not to return.

Of course I’m angry with police handling of the matter.
But that’s not going to help me prove my innocence.
I have heard of this toothpaste trick described once before from the very same woman and once by her former friend. Apparently as I recall it even has a name.-when she “grabs her neck”.
I’m almost certain she has done this to others and will again unless I can prove pergery.
If anyone can help in any way please email me. Or reply to this post.
I have had a quote of around 8 thousand for representation from a barrister.
So it looks like I’m defending myself.
Its intimidating as I’ve not had any court experiences.
Any advice or referrals are more than appreciated.
Has anyone heard of this cunning ploy to destroy a mans life and reputation and future. ?

54 Responses to “Toothpaste accomplice.”

  1. In my opinion only.as I have been through similar.

    1, make sure you are safe and don’t do anything silly cause you will be extremely pissed off.
    2, think how you can prove this with the people that told you about this
    3, get a lawyer asap sorry they are needed
    4, kiss your house and your stuff goodbye as police will have issued you with a pso or protection order and its gone, this is a classic stich you up and grab.
    5, this has all been planned and is best way to get you out and she keeps kids ect if you have them, and stays in house if what you say is true so be very careful she is ahead of you.
    6, get some support friends and family that know you and know that you did not do it, borrow some money if short of them any true friends and family will be happy as this is a serious situation
    7, Fight everything.

    read the top section of this, “must read”

    https://www.facebook.com/NewZealandMenFedupwiththeFamilyCourt?hc_location=timeline

  2. That is assuming of course it is your house and your wife and you want to fight it, otherwise , walk away fight the charge in court. Sorry to hear.

  3. andrew says:

    I wonder if the case will go to court. Just prepare yourself and tell the truth. Most judges are fair minded and the case has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt, you do not have to prove your innocence, the police with the help of your wife have to prove your guilt.
    You could experiment on yourself with the effect of toothpaste and get photos of the result.
    Still it is a cleverer ploy than assault with a wheelbarrow.
    Trust the judge and do not talk anymore with the police.
    Best of luck. Keep us in touch.

  4. dunnuffinwrong says:

    Dominic thanks for your comments.
    Yes I’m carefull not to overreact as the pacifist inside me now wants to tear down the walls of everything.
    Its two weekends ago now and I’m beginning to calm down just enough to think straight.
    I have an appointment with Canturbury men’s centre to talk this through which I know is what I mostly need.
    I also have a legal aid interview tomorrow and although I don’t qualify for legal aid the might be able to find me a lawyer I can afford.
    Fortunately. (Apart from my former landlady)
    I haven’t lost the trust of a single friend or family member despite this horrible allegation.
    They know me better and of that I can still be proud.
    Also- I went in despair to see a long time family friend who is now a prison parish.
    Without listening to my woeful tale he told of his own story.
    He spoke of his regrets that he had left his wife and children and gone to England for several years after marrital problems. ” I should have stayed and fought for my marriage” he said.
    He said his kids are now very close and love him dearly and have long forgiven him for not being there.
    He said to this day the hardest thing for him is to forgive himself for that mistake.
    I went away and had a good think anout his words and realised , no matter what happens in court or what anybody thinks as a result of accusations-
    What happens two weeks ago was nothing ill ever have to forgive myself for.
    So Regardless of the outcome.
    I’m still a good guy.
    Thanks heaps for your advice. ( I take notes)
    I hope others will share theirs too. !!!

  5. dunnuffinwrong says:

    Thanks Andrew for posting a comment.
    Yes of course I have recreated the toothpaste trick and easily replicated the few scratches as well which turn bright orange when scratched through toothpaste.
    And then .. Oh my the skin on my hands has turned the same sickly anemic colour as in the photos.
    I would dearly love to be able to prove pergery.
    I can replicate the supposed injury with a tube of toothpaste in court in less that two minutes.
    If allowed to of course.
    I’m just nervous as if I was accused by another man its innocent until proven guilty but accused by a woman and its the opposite.
    And from what I’ve heard many assume your guilt regardless of the verdict murmuring that – that lawyer got him off. !

  6. FYI , I was convicted and discharged with not even a fine for assault , for pushing past each other , I was in the door way(that’s classed assault) my ex wife (on the night I got dragged out of my house) now, when it got to court many many months later as she got to stay in the house and keep everything we both testified against each other there was no witnesses no proof , no injuries ,judge said he was satisfied “something must have happened” and that was that.

  7. Scott B says:

    If she said you “scratched her chest” then the police should have checked under your nails for her skin/dna. I am assuming this didn’t happen. Might be a point to bring up? Maybe not. I don’t know. It’s just a thought I had as I was thinking of evidence.

  8. nameandshame says:

    NAME AND SHAME THE BITCH

  9. Phil Watts says:

    No conviction should mean that the Family Court does not punish you. Sadly the Femily court is run by corrupt Judges who use crazy women and your children to have power over men and to take their money away from them.

    My advice is not to feed the monster.

  10. dunnuffinwrong says:

    Dear dominic,
    Thenkyou for replying to the post that I asked for help with entitled “toothpaste accomplice”
    I recieved many replies and im thankful to all those who responded.
    Your reply was the advice I chose to accept and ive folowed it carefully.
    You seemed to know exactly where I was and what would happen and time has proved you correct 100%
    Thankyou for clearly explaining to a confused man – what to accept and what to do.

    Its been six weeks since the day I was accused and im still strong.
    I got a cheaper lawyer who told me my case was simple and for no more than 3k he would defend me and I CAN expect to be found not guilty of this charge.
    Following your advice (and others) I thought about it and then paid money and set up an ap to pay the rest. I felt a little relieved as he had told me that only a fool defends himself and even if I tried id likely loose as im unable to question the “victim” (in the off chance she shows up) and police prosecution might trip me up on a question. Also my lawyer told me that with his help – the truth will be revealed and I will be “set free”.—unless the judge thinks your a liar. !!!!
    I said well that is a shame because id hoped that the case would be judged by the facts and evidence as well as the judges ability to pick truthes from lies..
    I asked about having the police photo used as evidence scrutinized by a forensic expert.
    No that costs many thousands extra. He reminded me that its a court of law. – not of justice.
    I said well if its not proven that she has fabricated evidence to frame an innocent man then how can I expect the law will prevent her doing the same to the next guy. He snapped back I shouldnt worry about the next guy. (Its my ass thats in the stir)
    I said im convinced shes done this before as she previously described the m/o and has shown me what toothpaste does to skin and that her previously passive husband who after twelve years who had agreed to separation “suddenly attacked her out of the blue in a violent frenzy ”
    So what of her past gets looked into to establish repeat behavior. ?? The reply was that her past was irrelevent and I was reminded that im “up” for a very serious charge and I had a good chance of “winning” ??
    I ended the meeting and returned after getting a call from police to collect some paperwork.
    It was a permanent protection order which bore conditions that I should must stay away and that I must sit for 52 hours of anger managment. (I couldve killed the prick!)
    My lawyer quoted me a further six thousand or more to defend it.
    Im confused ” dominic”
    Ive tried to get back to my lawyer as he asked for me to get in touch urgently two days ago and everytime I call his office looking for him its $350/hr in six min increments.
    Perhaps I will defend the protection order myself. Dispite being ousted from my home I have every email, text and photograph which easily disprove her allegations. Im very confident.
    Then let my lawyer take the cash and glory at trial of which im also very confident!

    But you know thats a pannacea.
    Theres no winning or glory when I walk out of court “free”

    No one will ever know how many men she has done this to or prevent her continuing.

    I will still walkout of there feeling robbed.

    My resentment will not be held to her – but to the police and to lawyers and to the courts.

    She will become just another psyco that I once knew but im giong to harbour resentment toward the rest of these fucking scabs for the rest of my life.

    I read through these forums and have had involvement with mens groups for years and realise im just case 1452. Another fool to go through the mincer and if I play nice and pay the money I can keep my good name.

    In these forums blokes are waiting with a comforting word and horror stories of thier own to remind me im not the only one.
    And then ill in turn join them and support others who have had no justice as if were all holding hands and singing while the next man has his life destroyed by obveous false allegation.

    Mabye my friend – theres another way.

    I dont want cold comfort and clearing my good name seems like a joke when ive got so little respect for those who claim to pronnounce it.

    What if I take this one for the team dominic ?

    What if I change my plea to “guilty by insanity ‘?

    And I dont mean guilty because ive done wrong. But insane because at 43 years of age I do not have the capacity to beleive that justice is done to an innocent man in the nz family court.

    I can show anyone who has common sence in five minutes that no crime occoured.
    Ive not lost one single friend through all of this as they know that im the type of bloke thats strong enough to man up to mistakes.(had he made one)
    Although my lawyer wants money so I can save my own skin I really do give a fuck about the next guy.
    I could ask the court for the maximum amount of time to read a prepared statement and tell those leaches just whats going on. I want to embarrass the court and shame the police with carefully chosen but direct statements.
    Heres an example.
    “YOU HONOUR DO THE POLICE CLAIM THAT ITS A MIRACLE THAT A WOMAN LYING ON THE GROUND WHO IS BRUTALLY BASHED AND KICKED CONTINUALLY AND REPEATEDLY IN A SAVAGE AND FRENZIED ATTACK HAS NOT SUFFERED A SINGLE RESULTING INJURY ?
    OR CAN THERE BE ANOTHER EXPLANATION?
    IS IT LIKELY THE MAN HAD LEARNED SOME SPECIAL TEQNIQUE OF PUNCHING AND KICKING THATS DESIGNED TO HURT BUT LEAVE NO MARKS OR SIGNS OF STRUGGLE?
    AS THE DEFENDENT HAS HAD NO POLICE INTERVIEWING TRAINING HOWEVER HOW ELSE MIGHT HE HAVE LEARNED THIS ?

    Lets not be the ambulance at the bottom, waiting for another good man to fall. but face the front and with your support and others I can dig us a trench that others can join in an I can stand for us all in that dock Doninic.
    Why — Because My name is William Russell Baldwin and I am an innocent man.
    My Late father Aaron Baldwin was a man of few chosen words but was clear on one thing.
    Bad things can only happen when good men do nothing.
    What if I asked mr potter to make a website for me explaining my defence and showing what im accused of so everyone could make up thier minds? And lend support if they wished.
    Perhaps some might send comments to the site that i can show to the court and help me make a statment that represented us all.
    Mabye some might be prepared to visit court that morning to have a group photo wearing tshirts that said “guilty by insanity” I can organise that.
    I have exellent references and statments and photoes that will prove my creadibilty.

    Now im not stupid mate. This is a very serious crime and carries a 2yr max as you know.
    But there were no injuries and its my first accusation so im unlikely to suffer thier wrath too severely.
    Ive already spent 50 hours checking the same paint job and im still brave.

    I dont pretend to know thier game but id be hoping the majistrate or the police will throw this out based on laCK of evidence.
    If not I get charged but sooner or later I want to walk away with pride.
    Either way my integrity and mana remains my own dispite what our stupid family law court thinks,
    So what do you thimk mate.
    Should I pay my lawyer to assfuck me and be greatful when they tell me I can go home?
    I had my home and my posessions robbed by police as you did.
    Your last words in your advice to me was “fight everything””

    Will men stand with me if I fight for us all. ?

    Billy.

    Billy20122@hotmail.co.uk
    This comnent is directed to all who read this and Im greatful for every reply and comment
    I also invited you to copy and send this to anyone you might think would help in any way.

  11. Voices/dunnuffinwrong says:

    This time next week I’ll be sitting
    Across the table from the top police seargent
    and two of their best lawyers.
    My claim is of systemic discrimination against
    Male victims of DV.
    Four and a half years ago I wrote my first post on menz.
    It’s the post at the top of the page.
    I took the advice from the first comment from Dominic de silva. – fight everything.
    I got to meet him and thank him earlier this year.
    I defended the charge and the protection order.
    Now I’m going to do what I can to reduce the chances
    that this happens to the next guy so easily.
    This will be the most important meeting in my life.
    I just have to get it right. !

  12. george simonovski says:

    @ 11. Please get back to us after the meeting

  13. Downunder says:

    And if I recall you said that the meeting is in Chch?

    After the recent post on International Men’s Day (from Chch) I would like to think that you are well supported in that effort.

  14. Voices back from the bush says:

    Yes, thanks for asking. the meeting is at the human rights commission office in chch.
    I have Donald Pettit, the manager of the Canturbury men’s centre supporting.
    I’m very pleased to have such an esteemed local man at my side, he is very well regarded and has been in the roll for many years. He also has the ear of ms media and wants to expose discrimination and bias male victims are dealt.
    Perhaps that will just jog the police enough to take the matter seriously.

  15. mama says:

    #11,,Voices…..This is Amazing,,CONGRATULATIONS….

  16. Evan Myers says:

    It’s what we call the apprenticeship, Mama.

    He’s almost done his time.

  17. Voices back from the bush says:

    Thanks, yes I figure I owe it to other men, I was ignorant to the plight of men for many years until it happened to me.
    It will only be amazing if I win though. That’s the thing.
    I had a phone call with Bettina Arndt yesterday. She’s very interested and if I win Janice Fiamengo said she might do a file on it.. but once again , I’ve got to win.
    This step is just mediation. Most claims get sorted out this way I’m told.
    If there’s no concession from police then I will submit evidence to the HRC and apply for a tribunal hearing in which a panel from the HRC decides the outcome.
    Thanks for your support fellas.

  18. Voices back from the bush says:

    16, yes , that’s a fair comment.

  19. mama says:

    Oh yeah,, here I was thinking you had already defended and been successfully righted, sorry some road to go still but the attraction of others who have been watching is impressive of course…and thanks to you BIG TIME.

  20. Audi Alteram Partem says:

    #11 Thanks very much Voices for being so brave and determined in pursuing justice. You have my full support and if you need any help please feel free to ask.

  21. Voices b f t b. says:

    Thanks Audi. Yes there’s lots you can do to help. All of you!
    I’m a swimming pool builder and not the most savvy when it comes to debating police practice and legal stuff.
    For a start let’s get everything I’m complaining about in to context and think of what I’ve forgotten.
    Here’s a bit of a rundown of some of the issues I want to confront the police about.
    Add to my list. Suggest which are the strong points.
    Edit with more detail,
    All help with this is tremendously appreciated.

    1,Protection orders administered without evidence of wrongdoing.
    2, men arrested without question even when its known they were attacked without provocation and after being attacked left the room for safety.
    3. Arrested men being told “you can make a statement but we will not consider your evidence- we’re only interested in evidence against you.”
    4. The police adhere to a “victims must be believed” ideology. – this means anyone accused must be presumed guilty, for the last three thousand years we’ve kept “innocent until proven guilty” as an important factor in administering justice fairly. 
    When exactly the fuck did this change, who was consulted?
    5, men who have been known to be hit, kicked and attacked with improvised weapons not being offered medical treatment or their injuries noted.
    6, info about the females resorting to violence not passed on to social services so they can receive -Appropriate assistance.
    7, low arrest rates for female in spite of female violence stats tripling in recent years.
    8, police complaints procedures being nothing like what their website pretends they are.
    9. So called – “Independent”police complaints authority being unable to even address a complaint of discrimination.
    10, evidence gathering without impartiality. Evidence of female violence not included if she is the accuser.
    11, no process to protect property rights for the accused.
    12, refusal of police to have any dialogue with accused men even when the man is clearly in difficulty.
    13, police constantly referring to the accused as the “offender”even when he’s been attacked and there’s no clear evidence of his wrongdoing. And the female being referred to as the “victim” just because she is a complaintant.
    14 prosecutors still calling her a victim even after she doesn’t show up to court.
    15 police prosecutors proceeding to court even when its been decided Months before that they intend to offer no evidence to the court.
    16, females known to have made false statements of assault never, ever being punished because supposedly it will prevent other victims coming forward. ( this has never been actually proven and no consideration is given to the destruction to the accused mans life. If I go to the cops and falsely claim someone stole something I can expect to be arrested, females know that any false claim of DV they make will never be punished. The system encourages abuse.
    17, bias in police training , they are told to not consider the man a likely victim. They are turning up to quarrels and being told only to look for HER responses to questions.
    18, police supporting white ribbon and other campaigns that only have concern for male violence to females and children.
    Police do not publicly support ANY campaigns that consider all victims of violence,
    19,police administer Stranger danger campaigns that only warn of MEN as dangerous. 
    20, all victims lobbyists being all female and pro feminist.
    These are the only groups police care to listen to. 
    When was the last time the cops approached A men’s group and said “what can we do to reduce violence towards men women and children. ”

    The 2014 Glenn report documented 500 testimonies from victims of DV that had been through courts. 
    All we’re females of course.
    The study showed that victims “overwhelmingly” believed that lawyers and prosecutors deliberately dragged out proceeding to ensure more money for themselves.
    What’s been done to address this?
    When will the next report be done to see if this has improved? And if it hasn’t, can we just throw the whole lot of these crooks out and start again? 

  22. Voices b f t b says:

    21, male victims commonly being told to man up , harden up or to grow a pair.
    Often arrested themselves after complaining.

  23. Audi Alteram Partem says:

    Hi Voices,

    Could you please send me the documentation you have about what happened to you? You have my email address. I’m not a lawyer and I have no experience with the criminal courts, but I have had some experience with the civil courts and have been through a HRC mediation. I’d be happy to have a look and offer my opinions about your strongest points.

  24. mama says:

    You know if the Glenn enquiry got 500 testimonies could we get more or at least match this.

  25. Voices says:

    23, yes
    24, no one gives a shit mate.

  26. george simonovski says:

    This is interesting.

    The North shore police send me two e mails saying :

    1. If I don’t stop asking for Affidavits from the direct witnesses of applican’t alleged { loitering ” they will arrest me for breaching my undertakings

    2. A certain senior constable form North Shore Police wrote to me that I shall be arrested if I ever came close to Japan.s National day show . She is Japanese

    3. The ” loitering” events as sponsored by the Japanese general consulate in Auckland . When i aske d for their affidavit has the woman actually took part in the show masked as Japanese Mickey Mouse top to toe full costume – The Japanese consulate complained to the top brass NZ Police as told by that senior constable . He was officially tasked to scare me not to proceed with my Affidavit subpoena . I was scared and stop all my legal efforts to defend my self .

    4. I was arrested by North Shore police station for something I did not do it at all . Evidences confirmed my innocence and that is the Judge discharge me without conviction in three minutes

  27. george simonovski says:

    @ MAMA – You have my one

  28. george simonovski says:

    One more thing > Just becasue I asked the Consulate for an affidavit , North shore police parked a police vehicle 24/ hours for three days right in front of my house .

  29. mama says:

    George, quite dramatic is your story, time from beginning to end or is never ending has to be a big thing as having to defend yourself, stay afloat, stay sane and still manage to keep defending yourself….and we have not even touched on cases that extend to custody of children issues.

    #25,,,Voices,,,that is currently the problem.

  30. george simon says:

    @ 29 Thank you Mama

    I still have flash backs , Altough a year passed since then I still feel humiliated and devalued . Keeping silent ,after such a blatant abuses , as I did, is typical for people who were deliberately psychologically devalued , abused and basically dehumanized. Police all over the world know that as it is one of the oldest tools of their profession .

    I am quite curious though to hear Voices particular story and what is HRC ?

  31. Voices b f t b says:

    George, I wrote the panicked article at the top of this page a little over 4 years ago.
    Now I’m challenging police at the human rights commission, I’m claiming sexual discrimination and also that discrimination against males is systemic throughout the police force response to male victims of domestic violence, so hrc is human rights commission.
    Thanks for sharing your story.
    Sorry to hear it.

  32. Voices back from the bush says:

    Unusual article for mainstream media, perhaps change is finally beginning to occur.

    “When he tried to report this domestic violence, he was made to feel that police did not want to know about it – there was nothing he could do.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/107906708/im-a-man-and-i-have-been-the-victim-of-domestic-violence

    [If the link fails, the text is reproduced below]

  33. george simonovski says:

    At Voices

    Thank you I didn’t know that. What can be achieved by your action ? An apology from teh Police ? What exactly ?

  34. Downunder says:

    #32 Good spotting I thought it worth copying too.

    I believe there is a strong link between men’s rights and suicide.

    Male domestic violence victims have little support and disempowered fathers do not have the same rights as mothers.

    These issues can cause mental health problems and lead to many male suicides.

    I have experienced this first-hand and have seen it happen to friends, so I am sharing my story to highlight this problem.

    READ MORE: see link above

    When my partner fell pregnant, she made it clear that I was an unwanted accessory. I was cast aside and it was made very clear that I was not welcome in our baby’s life.

    I made a few informal attempts to re-establish dialogue so we could discuss our child, but these were met by false allegations and threats.

    I sought legal help to try and communicatewith her, but I was told that my ex had no legal obligation to speak to me about our child. I was also told that because I was not living with her, I would have no rights as a father. My only legal ‘right’ was in fact to pay child support.

    My ex would decide if, how, where or when I could ever know about my baby. I was closed out of my child’s life by the law.

    Police advised me that any attempt to communicate with my ex would negatively impact my already slim chance of having a relationship with my as-yet unborn child. I was not entitled to information about my child and I was not allowed to talk to any mutual friends, or I would face legal action.

    Attempts to communicate through legal channels were met with more defamatory allegations and threats, and the message that my child would be none of my business.

    However, for some reason, she still felt fully entitled to send defamatory messages of hate and abuse to me through her friends – and I could not do a thing about it.

    The pain of my mind destroying itself was, and still is, the worst pain I have ever experienced. It became so severe that I reached a point where I could no longer function and peace only came when I woke up in a hostel thinking I would end my life that day.

    I didn’t want to die, but I just couldn’t handle the pain. Instead, I found therapy and I am very glad I did.

    Tragically, our child was stillborn.

    In the case of a friend, he was unlucky enough to have ended up with a violent and abusive partner.

    She freely, frequently and violently attacked him when her temper got the better of her. This included punching, kicking, choking, closed fists to the back of his head, and scratches that drew blood. She would even attack him in front of their daughter.

    Let’s talk about suicid

    When he tried to report this domestic violence,  he was made to feel that police did not want to know about it – there was nothing he could do.

    He thought about leaving her but stayed because he did not want to leave his daughter with this violent woman. She also made it clear that if he left, he would never see his daughter again.

    My friend quickly realised there is not a lot of support for male victims of domestic violence and fathers have very few legal rights in comparison to mothers.

    Faced with the choice of staying with his violent partner or abandoning his child destroyed him. He ended up going down the well worn path of drug and alcohol abuse to mask his pain. His life fell apart.

    The most painful night of my life came when he rang me in tears to say he was going to kill himself because he couldn’t take any more.

    Suicide is tragic but there is a massive gender disparity in suicide statistics and it is important to understand why.

    I am sharing these experiences to highlight genuine needs that are ignored and overlooked in the name of political correctness. The pain and suffering of male domestic violence victims and disempowered fathers, and the lack of support destroys men. I have experienced it and I have seen it in friends.

    In order to get serious about mental health and suicide prevention, we need to include uncomfortable realities in our public discussions, support services and education programs.

    Public advertising telling women not to abuse men and resourceful, highly publicised support services for male victims, will help to reduce men’s mental health problems. A child-friendly men’s refuge centre, similar to women’s refuge centres, would also be great.

    All too often efforts to support these guys are stifled by self interested organisations, dismissed as the ramblings of men’s rights activists, or straight up denied.

    I am not asking for much. I am simply asking for gender equality.

  35. mama says:

    Wow, that felt like vindication…Thanks Voices.

  36. Audi Alteram Partem says:

    @34 Thanks so very much for the post Downunder. Not sure about all the brave staunch men on this Menz site… but I started crying as I read that post…

    Men’s Lives Matter – MEN’S LIVES MATTER – MEN’S LIVES MATTER

  37. Voices says:

    Something tells me you’ll like this one too

    “So the test for misandry to join the list would be the same as for any other form of hate: is there evidence of a serious problem with men being stalked, beaten up by strangers on the street, having bricks chucked through their windows or being otherwise persecuted by women motivated by dislike or contempt for men in general? If so, then misandrist hate crime must be acknowledged in law and rooted out.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/hating-men-crime-eldely-women-sajid-david-misandry

  38. Audi Alteram Partem says:

    Hi Voices,

    I have one further reflection following on from our conversation last night, that I thought I’d pass on to you publicly through this forum so others may also reflect.

    It seems to me that the lawyer you phoned from the police station didn’t believe you. The lawyer recommended that you make no statement to the police. He suggested that the police would twist what you had to say and use it against you. That is the advice that lawyers give to guilty people.

    However, you are an innocent man who has been assaulted by a woman who has then made a false statement to the police about what happened. As an innocent victim there is nothing the police can do to permanently twist what you say if you tell the truth about what happened. They may try to put a spin on it, but any such spin can be readily rebutted by more truth telling which will be supported by the evidence.

    My meta concern here is that we need to encourage men to speak up and tell the truth about what has happened when they are victims of female perpetrated partner abuse. Men need to be encouraged and supported to bravely tell the truth – not to hide in fear from a perverse and pervasive feminist movement who are determined not to listen to men’s stories.

  39. Audi Alteram Partem says:

    @37. The Guardian article argues that hate thoughts and hate speech are not illegal. That is mostly the case. However the feminists have become so emboldened that they engaging in hate actions (such as discrimination) that is illegal. My legal proceedings are tackling these illegal feminist practices.

    Also consider the normal behaviour of white Americans. Aside from a lunatic fringe, white American’s shun using the word “nigger”. They find the use of that word extremely distasteful. They have become ashamed of the disgusting racism of their forebears. My ultimate aim (though it may not come to pass in my lifetime) is that hate-filled lies told about men will become equally unacceptable.

  40. Anon says:

    Another two year of days like today
    Another two years of bewildering dismay.
    Another two years of waiting to to show.
    To fix a minute and a half,
    four and a half long years ago.

    Another two years of trying to be bolder,
    To carry the rights of other men on my shoulders,

    Another two years and it might even take more,
    The body count continues because of closed doors.

    And in two years what will I have seen.
    My daughter will be older into her late teens.

    Some will say to stay in this fight that long,
    will suggest I must have done something so seriously wrong.

    I had to apply to the
    to the humans commission.
    When I could have been surfing or golfing or fishing.

    Id written complaints every other day. Ignored by police and the ipca.

    To draw their attention
    They said everything’s grand
    My complaints been noted
    But dismissed out of hand

    I asked them why I’d been treated this way
    They said “We told you we couldn’t discuss this in our email yesterday.”
    They had sent me an email 3 working hours before the day.
    To say evidence against me can’t be discussed anyway.

    They gave me no reason for
    not considering their file.
    Except to say it would be like a mini-trial.

    Not only won’t they listen they won’t even hear,
    Then they tried to pin the blame on a cop that wasn’t even there.

    They admitted mistakes but hey hide from the truth
    because of what some woman said back in 71 in Minnesota,Deluth.

    They forsake reality,
    safer in denial.
    Prefer to look at their hands,
    not into their files.

    At the meeting they admitted they fucked up alright.
    Admitted they hadn’t done much anything right.

    Then the chief cop he tells me that he’s seen at the station,
    Medical evidence with incriminating information.

    That a woman was injured and I was the reason.
    This lie I consider,
    the crime gender treason.

    I’ve seen three medical files
    and all suggest something other.
    Don’t tell fibs do you sarg,
    Would you swear on your mothers. ?

    We’re sorry we fucked up your life up this way
    it was one bag egg had it in for you that day.
    Your the only man we’ve every treated this way.
    Now embrace collective burden and leave with your male shame.

    My rights are defined by a minority collective,
    That believe men are born faulty and genetically defective.

    And harm ever done to me must be deflected.
    That this’s is their stage with feminist directors

    They say only females can know about pain.
    And if I’m hurt we’ll that must be felt in a different way.

    Any harm they commit is just girly harm anyway.
    Because patriarchy
    I can’t know and shouldn’t say.

    So if a man is attacked with punches and kicks,
    Improvised weapons sharper than sticks
    Like a wall mirror attemptedly smashed over his head,
    The offender is determined by who’s got what between their legs.

    Any moment spent asking why Males can’t be included
    Is another moment they tell me that I’m so privileged I’m deluded

    Because women equals victim and thats all anyhow
    Somewhere every seven seconds
    Tic tic there’s another now

    Any wrong they do
    the blame is traced back
    To when a male did something bad and they’re copying that.

    They say there’s no other reason
    a woman could do wrong
    Apart from self defence or
    Revenge to be strong.

    While men are twice as likely
    to be hurt and neglected.
    The cop lies about his files
    Well done detective.

    They came to my home
    And they took me away
    They didn’t allow me
    anything to say,

    They told me any statement would be of no use.
    They copied my finger prints and took from me my shoes.

    They put me inside an impenetrable place.
    They took away my freedom
    And left me there for days.

    Then after bail
    They said I could roam,
    Still a guest of her majesty
    But with no place of home.

    My possessions were then
    the sole right of my accuser.
    In spite of the police evidence that showed her to be the abuser,

    But I was the male so guilty if accused,
    and I’ve learned to complain just gets you more abuse.

    Technically the case still remains in mediation
    But I doubt they’ll do anything to relieve their constipation.

    So here’s what I’ll do with all my frustratration.
    Go to vinnies, buy mens shoes and take them all to the station.

    I’ll take them to the station and leave them all at the door.
    With a note saying THIS is what Ive been complaining for.

  41. mama says:

    ANON,,, that was cool, sad, but mostly sad.

  42. JustCurious says:

    @38

    “It seems to me that the lawyer you phoned from the police station didn’t believe you. The lawyer recommended that you make no statement to the police. He suggested that the police would twist what you had to say and use it against you. That is the advice that lawyers give to guilty people. ”

    That is the best legal advice available.

    Any thing you say shall and will be used against you.

    When you deny, you create controversy so the judge has to decide.

    When you do not then they see it as a confession.

  43. Downunder says:

    @38 Perhaps you could see it this way.

    The lawyer is well aware the person is being processed by policy.

    He has two options.

    A. Be the good Samaritan, drive to the police station with a dog chew, to say, “Bite down hard on this boy, and you’ll get a duty lawyer in the morning.

    B. Or politely suggest that you make no statement and hope the next phone doesn’t disturb his favourite sit-com again that evening.

    The suggestion that this is the advice given to guilty people is a self-condemning assumption that creates an aggressive response toward someone who couldn’t help you.

  44. mama says:

    ANON,,,How is the day treating you? did you write another poem??

  45. Anon says:

    Thanks for asking, mama.
    I’m waiting for a phone call and some emails.
    Perhaps today will be the day I find out if my issues can be dealt with at mediation level.
    If not it will take more than two years to get a review committee hearing at the HRC,
    The evidence for my claim is quite simply abundant but I can’t make them look at it.
    Perhaps they will sweep it under the carpet expecting that I’ll just get tired and go away.
    My glass is half empty at this point
    Let’s see what the day brings.

  46. mama says:

    #,,45,,,if you get Mediation, do you have a choice as to what mediation service is used?

  47. Anon says:

    I had a four hour mediation meeting on Tuesday.
    Police said they need another 24-48 hours to consider
    How they will remedy the mistakes they made.
    No word since.

  48. mama says:

    THIS IS SO BIG, so big and it is YOU up against THEM!… it should be media not mediation!!

  49. mama says:

    Although this is beyond Fair Go, it would make an unbelievable story.

  50. Downunder says:

    #48 and this has been ONE significant problem, Mama, media … and getting off the Feminist treadmill and creating our own.

  51. Anon says:

    I’ve got really good support from men’s advocacy networks that are taken seriously by politicians and media.
    If I went to media with this they’d print it alright.
    But if these guys bring it to media it will be the topic of the day on ZB I’m sure.
    Timing is everything and its important that I’ve given those that made mistakes a chance to correct them.
    Embarrassing police though media gives me no thrills.
    Ensuring those mistakes aren’t repeated is more important.

  52. mama says:

    #51,, Embarrassing police though media gives me no thrills.
    Ensuring those mistakes aren’t repeated is more important….OH for sure, but knowledge at a national level will help the acknowledgement of what the problems are and where they lie.

  53. mama says:

    10 4, OVER and OUT, Have a good day everyone.

  54. Evan Myers says:

    Was there a good outcome?

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