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CYFs more part of the problem than the solution

Filed under: Domestic Violence,General,Law & Courts — MS @ 9:27 am Thu 24th August 2017

I have a tale of woe with regards to CYFs (yes I know, not another one)

I have been dealing with them for almost 2yrs now and every time they blunder into our path they leave us worse off.
My daughter has some complex emotional and mental issues as documented by mental health.

The process with CYFS has been a series of blunders and to be honest they have caused my daughter and I an incredible amount of stress and undue duress. This has lead to her feeling she is being judged by strangers who do not know or understand the situation and had an adverse effect on my health and business.

I have laid complaints with Cyfs, Anne Tolley and the Opposition Carmel Sepuloni. It took a month after some prompting to get a standard “we are looking into it response’ from Anne Tolley.

My daughter came to live with me 2.5yrs ago after a suicide attempt she was rejected by her mother as being “too hard”, her Mother, Grandfather and Uncle exhibit the same frequent and violent outbursts.
I have spent this time addressing my daughters issues, she has been seeing marinoto for therapy weekly as well. She can get very angry very fast and this can and has (many recorded events by police and hospital ED) escalated to violent behavior where property is damaged, I have been attacked and she will attack herself punching herself, slamming her head into the wall, cutting herself and taking pills.

My first sorry introduction to CYFs was an instant insight into the arrogant, poorly thought out extreme overreaction I have come to expect. I received a call out of the blue that my daughter was taken into care and I was to have no contact with either of my daughters because of a small bruise on her forehead. This was a result of her banging her head on her bedside table and I advised CYFs contact Marinoto to get clarification as it was discussed in therapy the day before. CYFs did not do this and insisted her mother will take custody. After many hours of trying to get her mother to take her (she refused) CYS finally released my daughter back to me (as it was approaching knock off time?). By this time my daughter had been locked in a small windowless room for 6hrs, essentially a cell and was very traumatised, she had also been told that her mother had refused to take her. BDP sufferers fear rejection and react strongly to it.

Some time later (greater than a year) CYFs arranged a family group conference, this was a farcical episode containing some very serious grade 5 breaches of confidentiality. When I received the report I was astounded, it was in no way relevant to the meeting that was held. When I questioned this I was fobbed off. By pushing further I discovered the report had been written several weeks before the meeting was held.

There have been many breaches of our privacy including

  • CYFs representatives calling in without warning while I was out and informing my daughter there will be a FGC and mum will be made to go basically telling her Mum is not there to help but only because she has to be, she was saddened by this.
  • The invitations to the FCG contained sensitive data and the delivery was an absolute farce.
  • CYFs have my eldest daughters number and have spoken to her however her invite was mailed to a distant relative we have no contact with like someone had just gone through a list and found the first name match in NZ. When I raised this I was told this meeting is for all family members as if this was a good thing not a blatant breach of privacy. The woman who received it is a distant cousin by marriage only and we do not have any contact. This is a Level 5 Breach of confidentiality and was brushed off when I raised my concerns. I did not wish to raise it any further in the FCG as this was not the forum for it.
  • An invitation was sent to a friend of mine at her work address, she is not family and just a friend, she has no relationship to my daughter and is a friend, one of a group of people I ride bikes with. This is a second Level 5 breach of confidentiality and was done even after I asked her to not receive an invite as she has no involvement. My daughters personal issues are now known by those who do not need to know.
  • My Mother, did not receive an invite at all.
  • My Daughter was only advised by the person who received her invite a few days before the meeting preventing her from applying for the time off and organising her working day that day. The recipient was confused as it seemed addressed to her but she had no idea who the child in question was until the possible connection clicked at a later stage.
  • My invite was not on letterhead and did not look like a professional, official document. Had I not been aware of it previously I would have discarded it as a possible scam.
  • During the meeting CYFs staff asked my daughters mother directly in front of her if she wanted to be involved and have a relationship with her daughter. Her negative response to this lead my daughter to tears, sobbing so uncontrollably that we had to break the meeting.
  • The most memorable act of the meeting was a bizarre religious rant by the CYFs meeting coordinator that left everybody wondering what the heck was coming next.
  • The report which followed was no representation at all of what little was covered in the meeting and was full of very incorrect assumptions. I pushed it through the complaints process (attached) to be told the results of the meeting report was written several weeks before the meeting was held. I was promised a retraction would be sent to all but to my knowledge that never occurred.
  • I requested all the information help by CYFs on myself and my daughter, suspecting by previous experience it would be grossly incorrect.
  • It took 6 weeks before they replied, 2 weeks later they advised my daughter must sign a release form as she was over 14.
  • I was asked how I wished to receive it and selected DVD. I was told it would be couriered to me and must be home to sign it.
  • Some time later I was advised I must come pick it up. What I received was a pile of papers. All the pages were out of order like they had been thrown into the air and casually picked up. There were multiple copies of most documents and I still have not been able to sort it into a fully comprehensible order.
  • The inaccuracy of the information was astounding, conjecture and assumptions made on no information with no supporting facts, an accusation that my daughters mother was taking Meth while pregnant that I advised was completely incorrect and asked to be corrected many months before was still there, I was staggered and demoralized. It stated I was attending counselling for my violent behavior, Completely untrue – I am not a violent person and have never attended any meetings.

These acts have had a negative effect on my daughters progress, she became withdrawn somewhat and stopped coming forward as readily as she is aware that strangers know what she is going through and is unwilling to trust confidentiality.
I promised her that her confidentiality will be kept and this has not been the case.

All this has dramatically increased the stress on me as I try to guide her through her issues and has accumulated with me having a stress induced heart attack and being hospitalised.

I have worked with my daughter during therapy and have learnt myself how to deal with all but the most extreme outbursts which require me to physically detain her to prevent harm to her and property damage. With perseverance and patience as well as support from mental health these events over the last 2.5yrs have reduced in frequency from 4-5 times per week to once every couple months. I have always been honest with CYF, mental health and Police and have felt supported by Police (the police have actually been very good in this situation, they have been professional and I cannot speak highly enough of them) and at times by mental health.

I am now in the position where 3 weeks ago my daughter had a violent outburst, she was throwing objects at me, some large enough to damage me and the house, I ended up bruised and cut, the house has sustained further damage. I asked her to stop and try some of the methods taught her to control her but it was too late as this was met by obscene abuse and more objects being thrown and smashed. She smashed her head into the wall so I wrapped my arms around her to contain her whereupon she began punching, kicking and attempting to head butt me. It was at this stage that I was experiencing severe chest pain and knew the exertion could likely cause another attack. To prevent this I struck her with my right hand using and open hand and the fleshy part of my thumb. There was not a lot of force but I understand that this is now viewed as assault. I am not hiding from this and have been open however if I had not done it I fear what the alternative was. This resulted in the physical attack stopping immediately.

CYFs have swung into an extreme and over the top reaction with this. Ignoring all the history and documentation by Police, Mental Health and even their own they have reported me to the Police and apparently I am under investigation for a bruise on her right forehead (I advised that I struck her on the left as I am right handed). My daughter is staying with her mother, CYFs advise all is going well but this is not the case, they have only visited once for 20mins. My daughters mother is a documented trigger and sooner or later there will be an issue. I can already see signs of depression and anxiety in my daughters demeanor, she spends a lot of time alone and I am not allowed to see her, this has since been limited to visit of no longer than half hour. I struggle to see how 2 social workers with a proven history of failures and a negligent mother who deserted her daughter for nearly 3yrs and is a documented trigger of these behaviors can suddenly decide this without any consultation with me, mental health or the courts. I may be wrong but these bully tactics are very stressful. The situation is such a mess I am still trying to work out if there really is an investigation as I have had no documents or a visit by the police and calls so far to police have drawn a blank. I believe the social workers in question are abusing their perceived power and the fear of CYFs to a disastrous end. My daughter has rung me in tears having a severe panic attack frustrated that “No-one is listening to me and they are trying to put words in my mouth”.

I love my daughter and will always be there for her, doing what I must to ensure she has a wonderful life. She is generally an intelligent beautiful girl with potential. The erratic, biased and unprofessional behavior of CYF means I am exposed to persecution for this. The revamp of the department is a sad joke, all that money spent and we have a ridiculous name no-one can pronounce as the only change, there was no change whatsoever in the keystone cops like approach to the job they are tasked with.

I am now at the point of frustration where I am pursuing the option of legal proceedings, at the very least suing CYFs for the breaches of security which are extremely serious. This will bring the case to a head and hopefully show that this department is and always has been not a solution to the problem but a contributor to it not due to funding but sheer incompetence.

Does anyone have any experience in this?


  1. Hi I wrote and official published a book about CYF here When CYF Visit. Its got a NZ ISBN number 978-0-473-35248-6 and free for all with no copyright. That above link will open in PDF so you can download it.

    Otherwise you can read about it here You Be The Judge which is on the Civil Justice webpage.

    Comment by talk2graeme — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 9:44 am

  2. Wow… Stick in there.
    My heart goes to you.

    Comment by WrongGender — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 1:14 pm

  3. Thanks Graeme
    I will read through it although I feel it may just show how hopeless my situation is.

    I read so much about how this system is broken and my only issue to that is that it implies it was working in the first place. The place is so poorly run it appears the patients are definitely running the asylum. The complete lack of professionalism is astounding!

    Comment by MS — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 1:47 pm

  4. I was attack by a female with bpd in 2014, I was then put in a police cell for days accused of Man assaults female. It took 9 months and thousands of dollars donated to a lawyers holiday fund only to be found “unproven”.
    So I learned all about bpd and the difficulties suffers impose on those closest to them.
    I found the internet support groups for familys of bpd suffers to be well rescourced and helpful.
    I haven’t had difficulties with cyf’s or whatever they’ve tried to reinvent themselves as personally but I speak about mens issues a lot and hear many stories about their incompetance.
    Most commonly It goes like this “two women came to my house and said we’ve had a complaint or referral that you have done something wrong. Either you admit fault and we go away looking like hero’s saving children or we will investigate every aspect of your life and if we find something we can pin on you we might decide someone else should look after them better”.
    Lunatics running the assylum? Yes most are proud “female Survivors”, wounded healers that prejudge men beyond belief. More Children are assaulted and killed by females (mothers) in this country but its not something the media mentions.
    I would love to walk into one of their offices at ten on a monday morning dressed as an workplace drug inspecter with fake paperwork and videotape them scattering like rats.
    Its a very difficult situation your in, and years of it must be mentally exhausting at times.

    I dont know how you feel about public exposure but if you were to tell your story publicly, you would likely be surprised by the immense support from all over the country.

    Set up a give a little page for financial support to take cyf’s to court and Im sure you’d be overwhelmed at how many NZers would support it.

    If you end up going down that road I will put up a large sign near an Auckland motorway thats hard to take down saying “A father, Sueing Cyfs needs your help!” with a link to the page.

    Comment by voices back from the bush — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 4:09 pm

  5. Voices … with you until you got to female survivor …

    What this probably means, is a little girl who stamped her feet and threw a paddy because she couldn’t get her own way.


    When her demands weren’t met, sabotaged her situation to make it look ‘so bad’ that she could not deal with it.


    Found it necessary to abuse you via the children when you weren’t within arms reach.

    I could go on … but hell, who wants to be an abusive man?

    Comment by Downunder — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 5:20 pm

  6. What about Bipolar deception.

    I behave more badly than I normally do, that should get me twice as much attention.

    Comment by Downunder — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 5:23 pm

  7. One would assume your daughter has a “care and protection” type of order in favour of the applicant being “CYFS” from some type of intervention and then formally stamped by a district court judge of the Family Division.
    If so perhaps you apply back to same Court for removal of the ‘Order’ with an application for a ” Parenting Order” seeking day to day care, and upon presumed refusal then be prepared to take it to High Court appeal with a supposed real Judiciary.

    Comment by Paul Catton — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 8:52 pm

  8. When I first read this CYF horror story I advised MS:

    I think you are personally unsafe living with your daughter and that you should see this as a wake-up call.

    I suggest you check out this group and get some emotional support.

    There is nothing you can do to speed up the investigation, and you should concentrate your attention on managing the inevitable stress.

    If you get arrested, say nothing to police and insist on seeing a lawyer, who will probably give the same advice.

    I predict that pursuing legal proceedings against CYF (or whatever they’re called this week), will be a total waste of time, effort and money.

    Comment by JohnPotter — Thu 24th August 2017 @ 10:00 pm

  9. Dear John,
    I agree with support but disagree with the rest.
    Suing CYFS might be the way to unhinge the process.


    Information is key, first what jurisdiction does CYFS have to mess with your daughter and life?
    Like mr Catton says, that is the key to unhinging the process.
    Find that out first, what legal / lawful ground do they have?
    That you must challenge. And make it public if you can.

    The biggest issue we have as men or parents is that we do not wish to publicize our current affairs and your daughter apparently feels already scrutinized enough already.

    That is a hard choice and last thing you want is the media using her experience to sell advertising.

    But being between a rock and a hard place, sometimes the one choice you hate most is likely to be the best one overall.

    Counselling – therapy —any???

    What is she diagnosed with contributing to her violent outbursts?
    Or Is it learned behavior?
    At first it works and we see that we can manipulate the people around us.
    Then we get used to it and soon discover we can no longer control the violent outbursts… So sometimes therapy aimed at rewarding her when she uses strategies to prevent outbursts do help.


    I read some research and a few documentaries that Diet contributes a lot to behavior.
    No processed food – Believe you me, it is amazing the difference.


    Being a young woman too – Menstruation can easily be a factor.
    Have you timed it and saw any correlations to that time of the month?
    So I used to switch to a vegetarian diet a week before. and they helped a lot. Less meat,less problems. And learning to stay out of her way whilst keeping her safe.

    Not sure any of this helps for you in the now. But questions you can work with along the way… Forgive me if any of my comments is inappropriate

    Comment by WrongGender — Fri 25th August 2017 @ 9:26 am

  10. Social Workers are but one control point pushing these agendas on good people. In the family courts it was the LAWYER for CHILD who deliberately withheld evidence, perverted the course of justice and went out of the way to ensure the MOTHER was not identified as the one causing harm to the child.

    In my recent experience with Auckland hospital, it was the social worker who was identifying good fathers, men, sons, who were a concern and someone to be careful of – she was warning the parasites who were lining up to get my mum declared incompetent so they could gain control over her assets and property. When I complained to Auckland Hospital this social worker was immediately put on a months annual leave.

    The social worker and the lawyer ( who is working with two relatives to get full control over my mothers property so they can develop her land ) were both caught spreading false and misleading information about my mothers mental health and ability to communicate…….Mum was communicating perfectly, yet these parasites said were saying she could NOT COMMUNICATE…..a total LIE……..they have been caught out.

    I have tabled a letter to the minister of health asking for answers……..I am told in an initial response he is seeking advice before replying……..I wonder WHY – there are multiple witnesses to this.

    Auckland hospital have now only communicated to me through their lawyers…….I am sure they can see a massive damages claim headed their way…….failure to provide CARE – food water, and a safe environment, while all actively looking to take away mums MIND and gain control over her assets.

    We have an epidemic of ELDER ABUSE in NZ, parasites preying on Vulnerable people ( Family court creates VULNERABLE KIDS at one end by keeping good dads away from their kids ) and at the other end we have them keeping good men away from vulnerable widows………..the system is presently AIDING AND ABETING the very people seeking to gain financially from these people…….

    My sister is an IRD employee, currently preying on her mum, manipulating her and controlling her with character assassination of good people, and gas lighting, ably assisted by her Citizens advice bureau husband who pushed power of attorney paperwork under mums nose …..

    and IRD have currently refused to reign her in – she is in direct breach of her code of ethics and integrity, as she goes to family friends homes and threatens them if they do not do as she says….she has lied, manipulated and behaved in a totally UNTRUSTWORTHY manner – and yet this appears to be just fine according to the COMMISSIONERS OFFICE in Wellington – no problem here that we can see – just Normal employee behaviour, just working as trained…….nothing to worry about here…… clearly IRD employee Sociopaths, narcissistic uncaring and untrustworthy individuals who LIE and MANIPULATE vulnerable widows…… exactly as I have complained about previously……..

    I note also for record, that this AGED CONCERN NGO set up to help with ELDER ABUSE, is NOT KEEN To help prosecute offenders – even in the fact of overwhelming evidence and even when caught in the act of committing this crime – ELDER ABUSE is a CRIME – against the Domestic Violence act, and here again if a WOMAN ABUSES her OWN MOTHER, this is accepted practice, and there will be no prosecution using the POLICE – rather – AGED CONCERN advise you to head back to the SECRET FAMILY COURT ……………..full circle……….

    The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths …………this entire scam called the SECRET FAMILY COURTS NEED TO BE OPENED UP AND EXPOSED………….

    Comment by hornet — Fri 25th August 2017 @ 1:26 pm

  11. I have asked the CYFs agent 3 times if they have the authority to do this, they are reading the emails as I have added read receipt and have received no answer.
    I have no court order or any documents of any kind. I asked for the supposed police reference and got fobbed off. I called the police and they have no idea, no-one knows anything.

    This is turning out to be yet another unprofessional ill thought out operation by the department for the creation of vulnerable children. It seems to me at least that these 2 workers have their own agenda and a pushing it (possibly) beyond their authority and (definitely) beyond their capability.

    This beast seems to have no organisation or intelligence it is little wonder its failures are many. Sadly they have permanently damaged our family dynamic. my daughter was sobbing uncontrollably last night and seems to be regressing. I feel the damage is permanent for us but need to ensure they do not continue destroying families. I am trying to open this up to hold them accountable but seem to go in ever decreasing circles.

    Comment by MS — Mon 4th September 2017 @ 11:02 am

  12. boy I can feel your pain my friend.

    I have been involved with cyfs for almost 10 years. Most of that time they have refused to listen to me. For the first two years no one bothered to follow up. It was 6 years before what I said was finally taken seriously and found out I was right. But did I get a sorry?? heck no. I received no support from them when I finally got custody. No one would communicate with me and all I got from cyfs is “file closed”.

    I had many a problem with my child and now they have ended up with many more problems and of course CYFS taking no responsibility for there actions. I have lost my daughter and now facing serious false accusations from CYFS. I was trying to get support for my child but cyfs always didnt want to know and refused to support me. Now they saying I never asked.

    CYFS have done far more damage than good. CYFS are trying to push me out of my childs life. I am very pissed with them. They are not to be trusted.

    Comment by 2c — Thu 14th September 2017 @ 3:05 pm

  13. CYFS have done far more damage than good….They are not to be trusted.

    True, and that’s profoundly sad.

    New Zealand used to be a place where you would generally get treated fairly and reasonably by government departments and services. What happened?

    Comment by Man X Norton — Thu 14th September 2017 @ 11:37 pm

  14. It was once The Public Service … not the State Policy Devise or what ever else you might like to call it.

    Comment by Downunder — Fri 15th September 2017 @ 5:38 am

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