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Suicide And The Hidden Reality

Filed under: General — triassic @ 9:23 pm Tue 4th July 2017

The NZ Herald has run a story on youth suicide. Any story helping to drop the suicide rate is to be commended but why pick youth suicide as though that’s where the BIG PROBLEM lie. Check out this bar chart and you might see my point.
For the website go here

It should stick out like dogs proverbials where the biggest problem exists and where most help and public awareness should be focused. It is my cynicism around the NZH agenda that I note – in youth suicide the gap between male and female is a lot closer than in any other group. It is the one cohort where you could (possibly) state that suicide is not a gender issue. Over-all, and in any other group, gender is a major issue and is ignored as such by the media and mental health. To be fair, the lives of males have been dispensable and used as cannon fodder since time began so why should any body think to put a stop to that now?

25 Responses to “Suicide And The Hidden Reality”

  1. Downunder says:

    There is a rising (not so hidden) tide of competition in political discussion on social media amongst the younger generation as to which racial group has the bigger problem with youth suicide.

    It might be a bit of a leap in thinking for some people but my mind went straight to Hitler’s rather chilling political statement to his own people,

    ‘We already have your children.’ Actual quote: “Your child belongs to us already.”

    Our focus has been, and I don’t disagree with @triassic in being vigilant in pointing out our position, but let’s not be blind to what’s happening in the streets.

  2. Allan Harvey says:

    If you jolly them along they do react.
    From the Herald Team
    We’re aware that males are significantly over-represented in the suicide stats. I think it was referenced in the feature article we released yesterday but I know it wasn’t prominent.
    We felt that suicide was too big a subject to cover compassionately and responsibly at once so chose to focus on the issues of youth suicide. However, there are many options for future coverage, spinning off from this series. The gender divide is just one. Another that’s been raised with us over the past couple of days is the large number of farmers who take their own lives.
    Rest assured that we know all these issues are serious and merit attention.
    Again, thanks for taking the time to write.

  3. triassic says:

    Good on you Alan. I will keep an eye out for it.

  4. MurrayBacon says:

    #2 Dear Allan,
    thanks for maintaining pressure on media. Hospitals also need plenty of pressure, to get them to respond usefully to these types of issues.
    It leaves me with a “we know all about it and we are going to do something about it, really we are?”, sort of feeling.
    500 people a year who aren’t talking about it, plus their families….
    Sometimes I wonder if theatre and TV entertainment are doing more good work, than the medical profession?
    I have stayed for as long as I possibly can
    There is some wry humour, that that report about theatre, was in The Lancet?

  5. Doug says:

    The “party line” is that male suicide is a result of “toxic masculinity” and I would expect the NZ Herald to trot out something along those lines if they ever bother to write the story, especially if the feature writer is female or they interview mainly women while writing it. If you see anything along these lines in the herald make sure you comment, and put out the word so others can comment – there’s nothing like real life stories and well targeted statistics to counter a sham argument.
    But, they may print a balanced and fair account. Here’s hoping.

  6. Lukenz says:

    Why does the state call suicide a mental health issue?

    Scenario 1.
    A man a accused of rape or other sexual misconduct. He pleas not guilty. The police while investigating come across evidence he probably is no guilty but prosecute anyway for reasons like, feminist pressure, political pressure, not enough evidence to convict but use an expensive and public trial as punishment. Making sure name suppression is opposed so the guy is buggered regardless what the verdict is. Also known as the accusation is the verdict. The man is eventually found not guilty. His name is searchable on the net for life. His name is registered or red flagged and will appear in a police vet for life.

    The man loses his friends. The man loses his job. The man cant get find employment. The man loses his savings trying to pay for a lawyer. The man loses his wife in the process. The man loses his children. The man loses his home and half his assets. The man be an older man with not enough working years left to recover. The man may be a younger man with no hope of getting a good start. The man commits suicide.

    Scenario 2
    A man works long and hard hours. He save is money. He goes without for years and manages to save a deposit for a house. He goes without to get the mortgage down. He maintains and does his his house up. He inherits money from a deceased parent and uses this money to reduce the mortgage even further. He meets this lady who seems interested in him. She starts staying a few nights. She move in with him. She has a visa card he pays off for her. They decide to start a family. She stops paid employment and they have one or two children. Over time she falls out of love with the man. She makes it difficult for the man and eventually they separate. The man loses fair access to his children. The woman poisons his own children against the man. He goes to family court to get some sort of access to see his kids. He pays for his lawyer. He pays for her lawyer. It takes years. He still pays the mortgage on the property he cant use. He is told he cant get his money out until the youngest child turns 18. He has his wages taxed further to pay for the kids he cant see. He discovers he ex wife has found another lover and this man has moved in to his house. In time the mans children start to call the boyfriend dad. The man continues to pay. The man commits suicide.

    The state believes these men have a mental health issue. The state thinks the man should talk about his problems and should of reached out for help.

    The truth is the man is not sick. He just found himself in a system that will cripple him for life. He knows he won’t be able to recover and he knows there is little or no future for him.

    Its that simple. Make it fair for men. Make it fair for children.

  7. Downunder says:

    The State has the worst ego in the country.

    It thinks only about self-investment (money), self-preservation, and self-promotion.

    The current dialogue around suicide is engendered with political cause.

    Men will not be helped, except by themselves and each other, and what is engendered by the father will only be saved by the father … to quote the archaic.

  8. Jerry says:

    Today [Sunday] on STUFF, is an item about male suicide. https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/94247538/manifesto-dangerous-expectations-lead-men-to-suicide
    I hoped for a moment this might be a genuine treatment of the issue, but it seems nobody can treat this issue with integrity and honesty. I stopped reading without going far into it. WHY? well for me the following sentence is inserted so as to preserve victimhood exclusively for women, and no matter what males go through – women have it worse.
    QUOTE: “Though women are worse off in many ways in society, this is one issue that disproportionally affects men.” What does this imply? You make your own conclusions.

  9. Downunder says:

    @Jerry, it’s another version of Cunliffe:

    We apologise for being men, but hey, did you know … [says quietly] it’s our leading cause of death under 45.

    The media did actually rip shit out of Cunliffe, and rightly so, but here’s a journo doing exactly same thing, slighty different language, and they’ll all sit there and go, duh, ruh roh, yeah, whatever.

  10. Jerry says:

    It gets at me that this mediocre Journo will no doubt cite this piece in future as a defense if she is accused of imbanance, not covering male issues. This will be exploited by her to enable her to masquerade as a real Journalist with integrity. In my view her sentence undermines whtever else she pretends later in the article. Indeed, does that sentence not trivialise men. And yet that other URL I posted yesterday, when the proverbial hits the fan, feminists “Call-out” men to fight for them. They forget feminism when-ever and in whatever respects which suits them at the time – CHEERY-PICKING what suits them without any care for their sons. Until women equal us in terms of responsibility, they will never be our equal. I do qualify that, to except those women who are already our equal, the Kurdish female batallions fighting the Daysh for example. But then I have not heard them spouting feminism. And I’m sure they would not bother “Calling-out” men to fight. They seem more likely to join the fight as true equals.

  11. Downunder says:

    She? Mate, maybe gay, but Lee Suckling is male.

    This is what they talk about in their spare time

    This will give you an idea why the media is so fucked up.

  12. Jerry says:

    Hi Downunder. I plead guilty to assuming Lee would be female – but does that make any difference. I meet humans who no doubt are listed as male on their Birth certificate, but their minds are compliant to the popular brainwashing – and they are at least as feminist as the most rabid female feminists. Whatever the reason, that sentence does undermine the supposed theme of hi-lighting the male suicide problem – “Women have it worse!” so he says. my opinion of the article etc remain unchanged.

  13. DJ Ward says:

    #8 Jerry.
    Your assumptions are pretty close to the mark.
    The article stinks of feminist privilege.
    Or should I say propaganda.
    The only good part is identifying that we put the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff when we should be looking at the societal pressures causing suicide.
    As males rarely self harm, meaning no ambulance is necessary.

    They are already dead.

    “Male privilege extends to most facets of life. Men get paid more, they enjoy unearned advantages and in many parts of society they’re given greater status. It’s also assumed that they aren’t judged as harshly as women.”
    Male privilege?
    Open doors for women, men pay for dinner, women first to the lifeboat, women deaths reported while males a summary, males assumed guilty in DV, male sex behaviours illegal while life destroying female sex behaviours legal, family court custody and property bias, arrest bias in vertually all police behaviours, ministry for women and parties with women’s policies but non for males, endless list of funded women’s organisations but few if any for men, etc etc.
    As for not being judged as harshly as women, although he disagrees with this for a different reason, he clearly hasn’t looked at sentencing bias in our courts.

    My guess is the article was written in the feminist propaganda style of denigrating men then defending men by misrepresenting men to pass the editors man hating agenda.

  14. Jerry says:

    @13; Dj Ward – of course you are right. But I really stop reading when I come across anything which seems to me as undermining the supposed main purpose of the item. What can be worse than death? well apparrently women suffer it all the time.
    Oddly enough I found another unrelated item about Indian Gypsies – but I found myself strangely envious of the people of the item. First of all they seem to have freedom we all might envy; no Health & Safety hitlers; No feminism to be seen; and hey – they claim stable life long marriages – albeit arranged from birth or there abouts. They sure smile and dance a lot, and women seem to think nothing of doing their genuine share of work. Heck, they even produce children and smile doing it. I never thought I would be envious of homeless Indian nomads – but there you are. And as a post script, they actually like having daughters as well as sons – don’t seem to bury either at birth. Its a huge contrast to our own conditions.

  15. DJ Ward says:

    Good article.
    No feminist bias, just facts.

    Just to emphasise realationship breakdown there is this figure.

    “The relationship factor spikes upward to 75 per cent among construction workers in the 15-24 age group as compared to 27.2 per cent of the general population.”

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/dozens-of-construction-workers-dying-or-facing-serious-injury-each-year-because-of-suicide-attempts/news-story/b10a346bbd0cb4dfccdbf80df88d73e4

  16. Doug says:

    Well looking back to my comment #5 I see that sadly I was spot on. The men’s perspective was indeed written by a woman and she simply trotted out the usual feminist line about what men think and what motivates them. Good to see plenty of push back though, the argument was flimsy and it didn’t take much to shoot it full of holes. Well done those guys (and women) who called the article out for the tripe it was.

  17. hornet says:

    Heres a story on Assisted Homicide.

    My mum recently had a stroke and was sent to Ak Hospital for “treatment”. Then the horrors begin.

    Ill summarise – A stroke patient wakes confused as to what has happened to them, they have paralysis, in mums case down the Right side – arm and leg are numb.
    In mums left arm are needles and drops etc.

    She is effectively restricted in her movements. She can not reach to get water, she can not eat food on her own, and the ward room is roasting hot.

    Mum is flushed red and desperate for water when I went to see her – I had to hold the cup for her to drink water – lots of water.
    She had to be assisted to eat since she could not use her arms.

    The bed remote to incline and decline the bed was on the wall behind mum – out of her reach, so she had no way of raising or lowering herself.

    Other patients in the ward were also needing help to open sandwich packets and bottle tops – my wife helped them with this.

    I thought to myself – where are the bottle and STRAWS attached to the bed with water and perhaps liquid food for these patients????

    And WHY the excessive heat which was simply aiding the Dehydration my mum complained of.

    Then we move to the lack of supervision and care – my mum was allowed to fall out of her bed multiple times hitting the floor. Another relative of ours also suffered a stroke, fell out of bed causing serious injury and she will now never leave a hospital.

    So simply to survive we need FOOD WATER and SHELTER – which includes protection and a temperate climate.

    If we are left to STARVE and DEHYDRATE without CARE in a sweltering room which is making everything worse – we are in effect assisting the demise of the patient.

    No amount of medication is going to help a person deprived of the basics.

    I called the Hospital and demanded attention and mum was moved into a 24/7 full time care room………..to help protect her and give her the basics of life.

    Next chapter – the false claims mum is losing her mind…………suffering mental health concerns – are your alarm bells ringing yet???????

  18. hornet says:

    So mums cell phone was taken by a rather greedy, selfish, jealous sibling who appears intent on gaining control of mums assets at all cost. To facilitate this that individual needs mum to be diagnosed with a mental health concern. Not able to communicate. Taking my mums cells phone from her, and refusing to immediately call all her immediate relatives and cousins was also another great way to limit witnesses to the true extent of mums mental function, and ability to communicate.

    All those relatives who I finally contacted and who got to the hospital this week to see mum have all stated categorically that mum is LUCID, HAS GREAT MEMORY RECALL, KNOWS WHO SHE IS AND WHO SHE IS TALKING TO, WAS COMMUNICATING WITH OTHERS in the WARD etc……you get the general idea – physically incapacitated with paralysis which may improve – but her mind is as sharp as ever.

    So all those who CARE and LOVE mum are stating her mind is fine.

    But wait theres more.

    However those who stand to gain financially or otherwise from my mum – are alluding to the fact mum is not mentally well and needs to go immediately into a rest home. I am told by mums lawyer who has failed my mother and is facing criminal negligence charges = that mum can not communicate – this reported in written correspondence to me.

    This is a LIE and In total and absolute contrast to what multiple other relatives are stating that mum is fine – mentally and can communicate well – normally in fact. She is speaking, but tired.

    The hospital so far have stated mum gets confused when they talk to her about her medical treatment – so who here does not understand medical terms and jargon??? Does this now mean you are mentally ill in some way, because you don’t understand the doctor??? Appears so.

    And of course lets talk about GAS LIGHTING – which my mother has been subjected to before the stroke, a slow psychological process aimed at getting people to do things they normally never would, like sign over their powers of attorney to a single sibling who is jealous, selfish and greedy.

    I was subjected to GAS LIGHTING on my second visit with false accusations that I was threatening and abusive = just like my ex wife did to me for years – do they all go to the same training school……..someone does not want to discuss the TRUTH, so character assassinate and try to scare you off with claims you are being threatening…..

    Whats my point here – well I have been alienated from my first child, and now it appears I am seeing this from the other end of the spectrum, where I am being deliberately alienated from my own mother.
    I am seeing first hand how the elderly – vulnerable widows – are being preyed on by this parasitic justice and health care system we have which simply wants conflict for profit.

    So at one end we have kids being made vulnerable as there dads are forced away, and now I see how social workers lawyers and the like are very keen to see a father, son alienated from his own mother, by a narcissistic, greedy, jealous, selfish sibling. So if you are a sociopath, and exhibit psychopathic, and narcissistic tendencies and a total lack of care for someone, the state will assist you completely.

    So whats ahead – I am taking bets………….

    This who LOVE and CARE for mum say she is mentally alert, communicating and has good memory recall.

    Tuesday is the meeting with the hospitals – “Specialists”………. a closed room meeting just for family – Mum is not allowed to hear what is said apparently. I hear – ” the very word secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society” = ringing loudly in my ears already.

    The sibling chasing the $$$$$$$$ has already gone behind my mums back, was caught doing so, has manipulated her, deceived her, lied to her, and now it appears they are going to facilitate more secrecy from the very person who is directly affected by these discussions……MY MOTHER???

    Im not a betting man, but I can already very much guess the decision has already been made to take away mums right to make decisions for herself. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence from family who can see mum is mentally fine. But we are not professionals……apparently.

    I hope I am wrong – but given my past experience with corruption and the use of mental health to control people – its very much pre-ordained.

    Lastly – had the lawyer written up my mums wishes correctly, none of this conflict would be taking place – rather these parasites have seen an opportunity to enflame and create conflict between siblings for profit, by deliberately neglecting to do their job. Making up unbelievable and not credible excuses for their deliberate criminality.

    This entire system needs an overhaul and quickly since currently those making a ton of $$$$ money out of exploiting children and the elderly are laughing all the way to the bank.

  19. hornet says:

    I think someone forgot to put in the MEMO – Don’t be so obvious as you do this ……….

    from the outset the intention by those wanting to manipulate my mum has been clear, allow or facilitate harm to the patient – starvation and dehydration is hard to prove liability, so is allowing them to physically harm themselves, no liability there ……and put all your effort into getting them declared mentally incompetent so you can go after their property.

    Problem for them all now is I am onto the game – I know the tactics, and their objectives and I have exposed it way before they go ahead with it.

    What I am going to ask the Doctor is this?

    If I HOG tie you, and dump you in the middle of a boiling hot desert – surround you with food and water that you will not be able to get access to – you can see it but not touch it, and on a daily basis just as you wake up I will pick you up and drop you on your face from the height of high bed, and most importantly I will feed you all the medicine you want and make sure you engage in a punishing daily exercise regime ( so called rehabilitation exercises hospital style ) on no sustenance or nutrition.

    So doctor, will you recover and get better with this treatment???

  20. DJ Ward says:

    I’ve seen the mental health trick first hand with a near retirement aged male with significant assets IE about 3 properties who had power of attorney taken by, you guessed it, his daughter who promptly removed him from his properties and essentially made him homeless then moved her family into his home.

    Real nice guy too. Liked to have a laugh, and yes he had mental health issues but I knew the guy for a month and there were never any issues with his reasoning or common sense. The big issue was they hated the fact he refused to stop having pot as his medicine while the doctors were forcing stuff on him that made him feel terrible.

    Evil.

  21. hornet says:

    Exactly this – and guess what – the DAUGHTER in this case works for IRD – was trained by IRD – and is exhibiting all the same tactics IRD unlawfully implemented on me — and to which they are currently now facing significant $$$$ damages for……so this incident just adds more evidence to their currently corrupted tactics of IRD and their Staff. One of which is my SISTER. This is not going to look good for them when it all comes out in the wash.

  22. hornet says:

    UPDATE on those Preying on Vulnerable WIDOWS and trying to EXPLOIT Them for Financial GAIN.

    1. There is presently an Epidemic of EDLER ABUSE going on in NZ, a form of FAMILY VIOLENCE – I spoke with AGED CONCERN, read the MINISTRY of HEALTH report on ELDER ABUSE and generally had to get up to speed quickly on what is happening in the health sector of NZ, after my mum fell ill with a stroke.

    2. So I complained to AK Hospital initially that they were not even providing the BASICS of life to their patient – FOOD WATER and A SAFE ENVIRONMENT. They quickly fixed this.

    3. There was a clear agenda in place to claim my mother was somehow mentally incapacitated – this of course breached the Section 5 of the Personal property protection act in that everyone has the RIGHT to be PRESUMED COMPETENT until proven otherwise. lawyers, hospital staff had been inferring that my mum could NOT COMMUNICATE when all family were reporting and recording that she could – and very well.

    4. ETHICS CODES – INTEGRITY and DUTY OF CARE. I presented evidence to Ak Hospital that the following professions and their employees/volunteers had already failed my mum in refusing to adhere to their codes of ETHICS. Citizens advice used his knowledge to present power of attorney paperwork to my mum where he stands to gain, Sister breached IRD Codes of Ethics in Manipulating my mum, gong behind her back and investigating her financial affairs, and lets not forget the parasitic lawyer who saw the opportunity for conflict, and did not put in place the protections he was asked to, to ensure my mum was protected from what unfolded in the last 2 weeks. These people all stood to gain financially from my mother vulnerability. A widow being lined up for EXPLOITATION.

    5. AK Hospital had prior to this meeting told me that my mum was not to be included in any meeting and that she was still not understanding the medical communications given to her by her doctor.

    6. I sent Ak Hospital a Sworn Affidavit of Truth – detailing the Code of Ethics breaches by other agencies and I hoped they would not break theirs, since they have a Duty of Care to protect their patients from EXPLOITATION……….Doctors are not just care givers any more, they have to also protect their patient from PARASITES who are looking to EXPLOIT their Vulnerability.

    7. I also reminded Ak Hospital of their obligations as to mums rights to Competency – and asked who was spreading false and misleading comments that my mum could NOT COMMUNICATE – distributed by the lawyer who was now facing an Ethics investigation.

    8. So I refused to attend the meeting / hearing – I told AK Hospital that I was not prepared to also go behind my mothers back and be included in the exploitation of a widow who was clearly able to communicate and who should be at the meeting……….the meeting went ahead, i was not told in time to attend that the hospital was now including my mum in the meeting – a big change from what they had planned, and now there does not appear to by any concerns for my mother and or her lack of ability to communicate. So someone at AK hospital has realised they were facing a massive Breach of ETHICS Complaint had they gone ahead and Assisted the very parasites who are already trying to Exploit my mums current Vulnerable situation………………….Expose EVIL plans with TRUTH and the RATS Run away from the LIGHT.

  23. hornet says:

    Another important point on all this.

    I had a very good family friend, an ex Detective Inspector of high Integrity – one of the good men from our past – send me a note as to my mums ability to communicate – this at a time when the now criminally negligent lawyer was trying to sell another story line which was patently FALSE.

    I have since heard, that the Social Worker at Auckland Hospital told my sister the IRD agent that this man of TRUTH was someone she needed to be careful of……….wow, the social worker warns the parasite that someone telling the TRUTH is a threat to her………..

    obviously this woman is going to now have some explaining to do.

    My sister phoned the Inspector and told him what was said……..wanting to know why he was now deemed someone to be careful of………….

    All he has done is TELL THE TRUTH and someone does not like that……….so he is now a THREAT………….

    Criminals hate good DETECTIVES. A Detectives role is to investigate the TRUTH. I was a DETECTIVE for 11 years until the NZ Police asked me to start writing traffic tickets…..so I left like so many other good men and women.

  24. hornet says:

    So WHY is all this important to FATHERS – because at one end of the Spectrum we have Children being made VULNERABLE, by keeping FATHERS away from their lives. The facts are substantial as to the damage this causes a child in their life.

    And as we see here, A SON, A MAN, a FATHER has been deliberately ALIENATED from his own mother, by a daughter, who is narcissistic, driven by jealously and self interest, and ably supported by others wanting to EXPLOIT a VULNERABLE WIDOW.

    These people are the lowest of the low, you just done get any more revolting.

    And clearly in both cased – the FATHER, the MAN, the SON, the DAD are kept away because BULLIES can not DEAL with the PROTECTOR. BULLIES prey on the WEAK and VULNERABLE.

    That is WHY Fathers, Dads, SONS and MEN are being kept at bey so that those who PREY on the VULNERABLE for FINANCIAL GAIN, can get easy access to them.

    DO NOT BE AFRAID FATHERS – STAND up to this EVIL.

    Gas lighting, false accusations you are threatening and abusive, and character assassination are all designed too make you feel weak, sick and unable to react – to overcome this psychological manipulation get back on the front foot, stand your ground and never ever give up = Persistence is OMNIPOTENT.

    YOU ARE FATHERS, YOU ARE MEN, YOU ARE PROTECTORS, YOU ARE HERE TO HELP THE VULNERABLE and TO RID THE WORLD OF BULLIES AND PARASITES.

  25. DJ Ward says:

    Look men you commit suicide because you suffer from toxic masculinity and don’t cry enough.
    We have to get in touch with our feminine side apparently.
    If we did that then less men would suicide.
    Let’s ignor the real reasons or the things we can actually change.

    Now when feminists say men should show their emotions and cry more.
    You can tell them to grow a beard and man up.
    Or something similar.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/why-dont-men-cry-as-much-as-women/news-story/d72552bb5f13b25ec1078e9214f1b33e

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