IRD child tax spin at its best
Have a read of this article Upaid child support $17 Million note :
Inland Revenue documents released to the Taranaki Daily News show more than half the parents liable for child support in the region had an outstanding debt.
A total of $6.7m of the money is assessment debt, money either passed directly on to the childrens’ guardian or paid to the Government to cover the cost of providing a benefit to support the children.
The rest of the owed money — more than $10m — is made up in penalties.
The figures show 64.5 per cent, or 2559 of the 3965 parents liable for child support in the region, had an outstanding debt.
Now read the IRD spin ;
An Inland Revenue spokesman said the majority of liable parents pay their child support in full and on time.
The department had collected 89 per cent of all child support assessed since the scheme started in 1992, and 70 per cent of new debt cases were resolved within 12 months.
Lets have a look at what is being spun :
- The majority of liable parents , an unknown number that could be between 50.1 and 100% –
- Pay their child support in full and on time - Yet 64% of those in Taranaki have a debt which  incidentally is about the same as the % for all child tax payers.
Now ask the question why if the majority of liable parents pay in full on time why do 64% of them have a debt? Something does not add up.
- The department had collected 89 per cent of all child support assessed since the scheme started in 1992. Basically this tells us nothing useful but does raise a question: If child support collection is so successful why are so many dads owing so much money?
- Â 70 per cent of new debt cases were resolved within 12 months.Once again what does this mean? How many “debt cases” are opened each financial year – how often do dads get into” debt” is it the same dads repeating every 12 months?
It is disappointing that no journalist is conducting an indepth analysis of this spin.
Regards
Scrap
You have to wonder about the IRD stats. I have had an issue (more than once) with their systems over the last year which I wrote a complaint letter about (and got the usual government department response).
The latest one is I have just been reassessed for September 09 (not sure why waiting for them to get back to me with why) – and their system automtically updates that my payment is overdue, and calculates all the penalties I owe for not having paid it for the last nine months. This despite the fact that I have paid exactly as I was supposed to based on the letters i have received. It is a fault with their system and I find it extremely annoying and insulting to be sent letters with overdue and penalties added when i have done nothing wrong.
So currently they will be showing for me for Sept 09 an overdue uncollected amount, and penalties for 9 months of non-payment.
Comment by Rippey — Fri 23rd July 2010 @ 4:47 pm
Thanks for pointing out the scenario Rippley. Clearly the figures dont add up and a deeper analysis is required.
It is bizzare that you pay what is demanded and almost a year later you are told we got it wrong and now you are in debt and we are applying penalties.
But thats IRD.
Regards
Scrap
Comment by Scrap_The_CSA — Fri 23rd July 2010 @ 6:58 pm
An Inland Revenue spokesman said the majority of liable parents pay their child support in full and on time.
The department had collected 89 per cent of all child support assessed since the scheme started in 1992
Bloody hell they have collected 89% and still have how much outstanding in penalties???
How can anybody (with the exception of the greedy sods collecting it and the govt )say that this system is not flawed beyond redemption
Comment by Mits — Sat 24th July 2010 @ 6:44 pm
Scrap, to clarify, I will get the penalties removed – its their stupid automated system that is the problem. It’s happened before and until they change the system it will happen again. Well, I assume I’ll get the penalties removed – perhaps it depends on what mood whatever IRD person I end up talking to about it is in on the day…
Comment by Rippey — Mon 26th July 2010 @ 4:45 pm
I keep getting over charged, or they lose my money which I paid, and in both cases I get penalties and then have them removed it happens almost every three months or so!
Comment by Scott B — Mon 26th July 2010 @ 4:51 pm
On on we go, from stuff today.
“The auditor-general has pointed out that the system can seem complicated, particularly when it comes into people’s lives at a very stressful time as a relationship breaks down. I also agree with the report’s comments on simplifying the information available to parents,” Dunne said.
You supercilious obnoxious contemptible little people.
Comment by Watchful Eye — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 1:27 pm
i wonder if there will ever come a day that something illegal shows up in the child support process and the govt has to pay back millions and millions to wrongly charged parents…that would be a scream…another govt rort
Comment by Ford — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 1:58 pm
lets hope its not some bitter hag whos going through a relationship bust up herself…youll end up 1000’s in debt…as did some CS woman from palmy sent a letter of debt to me just to get me jumping thru hoops…local member of parliament office sorted that shit our for me
Comment by Ford — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 2:01 pm
You prove you are not the parent and we refund all payments made. Taxpayer meets the costs, you just need to get the DNA eveidence by legal means and we will make the refund.
Comment by Ms IRD Officer — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 3:00 pm
System is failing our kids, say dads
By LOIS CAIRNS – Sunday Star Times
Last updated 10:46 01/08/2010
A group representing fathers is calling for a complete overhaul of the child support system because it fails to put the needs of children first.
“The system is too crude at the moment and encourages one parent to be a care parent and one to be a cash parent,” Union of Fathers president Allan Harvey said. “That’s not best for our children.”
Last month the Sunday Star-Times revealed that of the 176,500 people liable for child support, 121,500 were behind in their payments. Together they owed more than $560 million in unpaid child support and $1.2 billion in late payment penalties and interest.
The government has not ruled out making changes to the child support system, but has been waiting on a report from the auditor-general on child support debt levels before deciding what steps, if any, it will take to improve the way child support is collected.
That report was tabled in parliament on Thursday. It estimated child support debt and unpaid penalties would reach $7b by 2018 and most of it would never be collected.
Auditor-general Lyn Provost said while Inland Revenue was doing a good job managing child support payments, it needed to focus more on preventing debt piling up in the first place.
Revenue Minister Peter Dunne welcomed the report, saying the auditor-general had “hit the nail on the head on a number of issues and challenges around child support”.
“The auditor-general has pointed out that the system can seem complicated, particularly when it comes into people’s lives at a very stressful time as a relationship breaks down. I also agree with the report’s comments on simplifying the information available to parents,” Dunne said.
He was expecting a report from Inland Revenue officials shortly and that was likely to form the basis of a paper that he would in turn present to cabinet outlining recommended changes to the system.
Any changes cannot come soon enough for the men Harvey is working with, many of whom are involved in protracted disputes with their former partners over care arrangements for their children.
One dad, who was reluctant to speak publicly out of concern for his children, had custody of his two teenagers but his ex-partner was paying only $350 a month in child support despite earning more than $100,000 a year and having a new partner who earned more than $200,000. He was battling to get an extra $50 a month from her.
Another dad had shared custody of his two children, aged two and five, but was still expected to pay $1500 a month in child support even though the children lived with him every second week, during which he met their full costs.
“The system is fraught with problems and inequities,” Harvey said.
“It is stuck back in this care versus cash parent model rather than a more dynamic model like the Family Court has moved to, where both parents have a continuing involvement in a child’s life in terms of care and hopefully in terms of cash.”
Child support reform advocate James Nicolle said the system was failing both parents and children.
“It’s just not fair to anyone – I have seen case after case where people have been pushed to the wall by the amount of child support they have to pay.
“Systems like this don’t work anywhere in the world. If you go to the UK, Australia, the United States, Europe . . any system that is based on a percentage of income of the parent results in massive debt. They don’t just work – they’re unsustainable,” Nicolle said.
The government needed to move to a model based on shared parenting, where time spent with children and related costs were acknowledged and the expenses of raising a child were shared equally.
Unfortunately, he said, there seemed to be little political will to make such change.
“I suspect it has to do with the fact they see the child support debt and the huge dollar figure on their balance sheet and don’t want to lose that potential revenue stream,” said Nicolle.
Comment by Skier — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 3:01 pm
Not us, Our Minister
Peter Dunne29 July, 2010
Dunne welcomes Auditor-General’s report on child support
Revenue Minister Peter Dunne has welcomed the Auditor-General’s performance review of Inland Revenue’s management of child support, describing it as “useful and positive”.
“The Auditor-General has hit the nail on the head on a number of issues and challenges around child support, and I welcome the report,” Mr Dunne said.
The report found that overall Inland Revenue is doing a good job monitoring, prioritising and collecting child support debt, but that it could do more to stop debt from accruing in the first place.
“The Auditor-General has pointed out that the system can seem complicated, particularly when it comes into people’s lives at a very stressful time as a relationship breaks down.
“I also agree with the report’s comments on simplifying the information available to parents, but most of all I would like to see people stay out of the child support system.
“It is very much what happens when a splitting couple cannot resolve their situation themselves and come to agreement,” Mr Dunne said.
“Another valid point is that the child support scheme will work best when people comply voluntarily. That requires simplicity and parents seeing an obvious benefit to their children from the child support they are providing,” he said.
Mr Dunne said he was expecting a report from Inland Revenue officials shortly, and this is likely to form the basis of a paper that he will n turn present to Cabinet.
“This is a particularly important issue, and we do need to improve the way things are done,” he said.
Comment by Ms IRD Officer — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 3:04 pm
Ah yes, but getting the DNA evidence by legal means is the Catch-22, because such tests are considered illegal unless the mother gives permission for them to be done.
Comment by Hans Laven — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 4:56 pm
Absolutely however the Family Court might insist on such evidence if mum does not agree. Worth a try via the lab with mum’s agreement first.
Comment by Ms IRD Officer — Sun 1st August 2010 @ 5:16 pm