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HAVE YOUR SAY!

FamilyJusticeReforms FamilyJusticeReforms FamilyJusticeReforms@justice.govt.nz

Hi any one and every one,,,,,join in the conversation,, these guys want submissions from any one that has had experience with the system.

I have just received an email thanking me for my email/submission and they have asked me to answer some more specific questions in due course.

Im my submission I really questioned the without notice infringement.

I am wrapped .

34 Responses to “HAVE YOUR SAY!”

  1. Downunder says:

    Probably the most important issue here is to reflect on the way men have been treated in the Family Court, or within the process of the Family Court; that relating more to individual interactions rather than the court itself.

    Honest participation for men or fathers often results in disproportionate retaliation, construed context and a negative experience.

    This described another way is not unlike what has been referred to here before as gaslighting or what is referred to on social media as doxxing.

    The net result of this is that male participants are more inclined to not want to engage in any post mortem of the experience, or risk the process disturbing their current existence.

    Whether we like it or not the likelyhood of submissions is highly unlikely. For anyone who has been actively involved in men’s issues, we are well aware of the degree of political interference in our personal circumstances.

    The term psychological warfare sounds too much like a conspiracy theory but that is the reality we exist in. Any attempt to describe circumstances that undermine a Feminist plank will be surpressed or oppressed in some way.

    We have grown a political society that cannot acknowledge its own self destructive mentality.

    This is not intended to deter people wishing to make submissions and casual observers and economic and structural participants won’t be shy.

    In the bottom line, let’s be frank … there is a very good reason that there will not be submissions and likewise there will not be a substantially different outcome to the last 20 – 30 year’s experiences and conclusions encased in this website.

  2. Evan Myers says:

    A less visible authoritarianism element nevertheless one that is equally responsible in the international retreat of democracy.

    Perhaps one that escapes being documented.

  3. mama says:

    Well, it is a big fat shame to hear that change is so aparantley out of reach.

    Mediation surely will be seen as sense at least ..given the courts are so busy, to stop families from entering the courts, must surely be a goal.

    If we had been given organised mediation it would have been prevention, instead now it has gone too far and there is now no cure…it is a disease.

    I was naive at the beginning and am still three years later.

  4. Evan Myers says:

    @3 this is the way it goes.

    The goal posts move as quickly as you do.

    They hate it when you get up to speed, though.

    Never give up.

  5. mama says:

    Never give up is easy to say, and having said that, I am sure IT IS ONLY.. easy to say as I am sure most people on here have been through the ringer, probably giving years of their lives.

    ..but what happens when you are not only battling and getting baffled by the system, you are also up against what has to be considered an astonishingly volatile and crushing opponent…one who will stop at nothing and it is easier for them for they are not only protected but looked after too.

  6. JustCurious says:

    It’s funny – and absurd.

    A without Notice is a weapon of mass family disruption.

    It simply takes away all your favorite sounds in your life.

    And replaces them with the deafening silence of WHAT THE FUCK!

  7. Downunder says:

    #6 Very true.

    Shock. Stress. Disbelief.

    When you look at this from a legal perspective the Domestic Violence Act, takes a High Court Injunction in Criminal Law, and places this in the hands of mostly young female practitioners in the Civil Jurisdiction, making applications to a District Court judge in a secret court.

    The experiment failed long ago.

  8. JustCurious says:

    Usually without notices are warnings from someone

    “Back off- If you go near my kids, i will use it to send you to jail”

    In the fine prints you will see at times

    WARNING- SEVERE MAULING AHEAD – IF YOU DO or Do not respond or – Failing to run to the hills, surrender all your rights and agree to all I say – you are liable to incur all and any possible damage whether animated:-), imagined or real. [See the Woeman-GOD (Governance On Demands) book –chapter 1- sayings 12 – “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”]

  9. JustCurious says:

    True Downunder – it has failed but its consequences are horrible and still perpetrated daily /

    something must be done

    or

    Are you proposing we do nothing and grab some popcorn and watch the debacle unfold?

    You seem to know quite a lot about what did not work.

    You must surely have inklings as to what might work and and how to get it to work?

  10. JustCurious says:

    Yeah I think a without notice is actually the most eloquent way for certain people to verbalize saying to someone else.

    Look I am immature! I know it! and I am threatened by your maturity.
    I want to play at being irresponsible for a little while
    and I want to do it with your kids or family members
    Without you pissing me off telling me whats right or wrong.
    So I declare I hate you now so we can be good friends later.
    At least, I gave you notice and I have played fair.

  11. JustCurious says:

    And Mama – could you please set it out what needs doing – to have a say?

  12. JustCurious says:

    and can you explain please?

    When you look at this from a legal perspective the Domestic Violence Act, takes a High Court Injunction in Criminal Law, and places this in the hands of mostly young female practitioners in the Civil Jurisdiction, making applications to a District Court judge in a secret court.

  13. Downunder says:

    This is a very different age but as far as old sayings go … Don’t air your dirty laundry in public.

    With the secrecy of the court, and the apparent need for secrecy, this allows not only false allegations to be launched but any human imperfection to be ridiculed and taken advantage of.

    Public hearings in the Family Court would go along way toward stopping the untoward behaviour of frivolous judges.

    That doesn’t stop the court removing disruptions from the public gallery. We’ve seen enough of this manufactured evidence on behalf of women that has one purpose and one purpose only, to make women winners in a battle, rather than make children winners in a process.

    It’s time some of these idiots were exposed to the light of day.

  14. Evan Myers says:

    #12 High Court judges don’t go dishing out injunctions on other people’s lives willy nilly.

    There has to be a better reason than some woman has her tits in a tangle over how life isn’t treating her right.

  15. JustCurious says:

    How did we go from children’s best interest to women ‘s.

    Is is just the secrecy or the forms and protocols or their discretion and jurisdiction?

  16. Evan Myers says:

    In 1970s we had asylums full of crazy old women. They got closed down.

    Everything after that is another experiment.

  17. mama says:

    Mama Says… Let there be talking, Initial Mediation be a starting point, run it like a good rugby game and she’ll be right mate.

  18. RealMum says:

    @have my say,, I was always told things
    Are best left out of court to be worked
    Out yourselves – meaning:
    2people meet decide to have children
    Also then decide with or without children
    If the relationship is going to work.
    If not decision made for children.
    Just like court/mediation/without notice/
    Orders ETC decisions that are made that way.
    Spitefulness in my mind seems to be the
    Only thing that is to answer for why
    All this misery pain and suffering
    Is the way it is and snowballs into
    The rest of the misery chain. It’s just
    This is never about the children when it
    Is about spite that one parent is
    Never allowed to make a decision that
    Suits the rest of the world or the other
    Parent….otherwise there wouldn’t be ANY
    Problem with any of what’s written
    About and battles but a more helping and
    Supportive nation. But that’s just my
    Opinion.

  19. RealMum says:

    Information is power. When I 1st started
    Going through this, or met this system
    I always believed I could trust cyps,police,
    Courts,lawyers,people,etc turns out
    My mistake was doing that when wrong
    Information is being feed to the judge.
    While I’m standing there not aloud to talk
    Because that’s what lawyers do in there
    Language.what r u to do when at this
    Stage of confusion at what’s being said
    But in section act language when u
    1. Can’t think of your kids because you
    Will show emotion through now strangers
    Lies…in front of a judge you vs everyone
    Else 2. Business hours are 9-5 when every
    Second counts when you are not explained
    This new language not even by your lawyer
    …..I don’t know…court papers are some
    Thing to me that doesn’t need a signature
    When all it takes is a false phone call.

  20. RealMum says:

    There is such a thing as being screwed
    Over by the system. It’s just a shame that
    Correctness doesn’t happen as fast as how
    Long the process is to screw innocent families
    Over. Why a citizen of this country
    Can’t walk into court to make this correction
    Is beyond me as I’m sure lives,money,time,heartache,
    Your whole lifeline would be redeemed
    Over careless “oh I didn’t know” and someone not
    Knowing the 1st thing about your life
    Whoever Sits behind that office desk
    Who makes a rash decision off god knows what..
    A trainee staff member dealing with
    Lives who hasn’t graduated.
    It’s late I better go tired.

  21. Downunder says:

    #17 … we tried that but when missus started throwing punches, they called the game off.

  22. Downunder says:

    I don’t like linking to Stuff Articles but I’ve noticed of recent they have been more representative of society in their news spectrum.

    This is an interesting piece on the justice system.

    Looking at the doodle in the centre I noticed that it says 95% of youth court appearances result from domestic or sexual violence.

    These wonderful … short-sharp-shit-statistics (we can do it too) provided by political nobodies on behalf of a regime of deceit.

  23. mama says:

    well Stuff me!,,, welfare is of course the sore thumb that stands out as always,,, there has yo be a new way of thinking around welfare.

    The choice is pretty natural for a lot of mothers, this is the type of woman who would not commit to something considered so permanent as marriage, these women will alwaYs keep their options open and take any thing that is going, if a man gets a wiff of this type of woe man, run, never marry one of those, dont stay around long ehough for her to get her hooks in to you, yes absolutely the children will always be losers, along with the bloke while the welfare system still pays for these women to live the way they want to live, independent and ugly of heart/poor poor kiddies,..

    Even so called innocent solo mums, like the one interviewed for a herald article recently, she is only recieving $625 a week, poor girl, she had even recently started a business diploma so had to give up her part time job, poor girl, the petrol cost had therefore risen to $120 a week , poor girl, no mention of the cost of the course, free I guess.lucky girl.

    No mention of the young man who had abandoned them, who pays toward her welfare, the father of the child, I wondered how he was going and whether he is being helped into study, or is he working his arse off wondering why his ex is complaining that she can not make her ends meet, poor girl.

    Years and years ago my sister went on the DPB and she afforded steak for dinner, afforded alcohol and had parties,,, meanwhile my husband and I were living in our garage and eating rice whilst having our babies..and lovin it.

    I say that welfare should be an absolute privilage only, money not to be put in the hand of the beneficiary for them to budget badly, after all who can afford to rent a house/flat and live there just you and your baby, where are the solo mothers living with other solo mothers because it makes monetary sense, these women are not our royality,,, friggin far from it.

  24. mama says:

    ## 21, DOWNUNDER, that is surely the very reason it is necessary, surely things went well for you after that>> NO???

  25. Downunder says:

    Looking at the article linked to in #22 is this …

    Very few people’s fertility decisions are influenced by the economics of welfare, but some are, and a disturbing number of their children end up in prison

    I know this is written in the context of welfare and imprisonment and it’s disturbing that we view only a select group as being in prison.

    Yes, they are behind concrete walls and steel bars, after a lifetime with a solo mother. Great someone is doing something about the problem.

    If you look at this in terms of confinement to a situation, there are many more children not behind bars but confined to a situation. Confined to their mother’s individual wants and desires. Confined to a childhood of association with children they find similarities with.

    Confined to an upbringing that enforces the removal of the father as a priority for the mother.

    Sure, these kids may not end up behind bars but …

    They end up directionless, difficult to employ, socially inept, attention seeking disruptive creatures that attract a degree of sympathy and tolerance because they didn’t have a father.

    The extention of this prison population is very real and when you see an incompetent 19 year old, who is intelligent enough to be better but lives according to their upbringing and the best thing they have keeping them out of jail is a man who says, “I’m the male in their life.” then you start to realise the depth of the problem society is dealing with (out of our natural inclination to try and help) rather than what we see reported ‘as the problem’.

    Some, (how many, who knows, with rehabilitation) will end up with a better chance at life after having been in prison than the thousands drifting through the new waste land of society that we appear to be so comfortable with.

  26. mama says:

    Yes indeed, what foot step do any of these kids have to follow in…

    As a parent you are a guide, the child should never been seen as something to own and to be utilised to support an adult, the system is upside down, sad and stupid.

    The trouble is policy makers are often the ones of society whom have ‘made’ it, and their kids are okay, probably at uni to become a lawyer or doing a BA for the third time, they own their rental properties etc, they are out of touch with how other parents’ children live.

    If we can have solo mother mp’s, trans mp’s and maori mp’, can we have some inpoverished mp’s and scorned father mp’s.

  27. Evan Myers says:

    Fathers are not eligible for parliament only compliant males.

  28. Vman says:

    I encourage submissions but look at the panel of “experts”:

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/family-justice-reforms-experts-announced

    Does this read like a panel of “experts” to anyone else, or is it just me?

    Anyway, we must make submissions, it is embarrassing for them to ignore a large volume of men making submissions.

  29. Vman says:

    I meant to write:

    …Does this read like a panel of “experts” at screwing over fathers, to anyone else, or is it just me?

  30. mama says:

    It is all very very scary reading material,,and I wonder if in the full circle of things will it come to government stepping in to bump up the population like in Singapore the now,, what a joke that would be…”PERPS WANTED FOR SPEED DATING” please apply to govt.f..kin.org

  31. Downunder says:

    This is one of these working groups.

    It is not a select committee.

    These are not our voted representations.

    Does this group meet in public? Are their discussions open to the media?

  32. mama says:

    No they are most certainly not the line up that if the people actually affected by the issues, given a selection of whom to chose, would be on the panel,, but they have been accepted by the government as the people to deal with the precarious job at hand. There are no grass roots people to represent the prevention at the grass root level.

    Prevention, not cure.

  33. Downunder says:

    What man in his right mind wouldn’t question the make up of this ‘Family Law’ panel.

    Ruth Busch talks about her early years in the Bronx, growing up in a Holocaust surviving family, coming out as a lesbian …

    You can relate that to what Barbara Faithful says here.

  34. Evan Myers says:

    #29

    RNZ
    RNZ
    @radionz
    ·
    10m
    State abuse inquiry: ‘They’ve lost hope because it’s taken so long

    Interesting comparison

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