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What Women Want

Filed under: General — Downunder @ 12:25 am Wed 26th September 2018

RNZ Podcast

Parental Alienation is a discreted syndrome.
(Where did that come from?)


  1. Gosh downunder you are brave.
    by the end of the introductions, I was so despairing, I may have destroyed my PC.
    I have dealt with so many pathological and congenital liars in my 967 years on this earth.
    I could smell their stench through the speakers.
    Would you be so kind as to summarize the fallacies spouted and protect us from these voices now in my head.
    I will need exorcism to get rid of such inanities.

    Comment by JustCurious — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 9:01 am

  2. For a start it sounds like backbone is desperately digging whilst family first are being ousted.

    Comment by mama — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 9:33 am

  3. @1 I had PTSD before I was half way through.

    I’m wounded … wounded I tell you … and may not make it back.

    Comment by Downunder — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 9:50 am

  4. And this from the Newsroom tag team with Catriona McClennan

    In addition, children are sometimes placed under the guardianship of the High Court – with the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Social Development appointed as the court’s agent – when mothers report violence towards them and their children and the violence is minimised and disregarded by judges during lengthy court proceedings.

    Instead of providing the legal protection the women and children require, judges conclude that there is a mutually-difficult relationship between the parents and third party guardianship is required to resolve this.

    One of my key concerns about the Family Court is its ongoing use of the long-discredited “Parental Alienation Syndrome.”

    Parental Alienation Syndrome is a term coined by American psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Dr Richard Gardner in the early 1980s. He wrote self-published books titled The Parental Alienation Syndrome and the Differentiations Between Fabricated and Genuine Child Sex Abuse in 1987, and Sex-Abuse Hysteria: Salem Witch Trials Revisited in 1991.

    Catriona McClennan

    Comment by Downunder — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 10:12 am

  5. #4

    Newsroom does not allow comments directly on this website. We invite all readers who wish to discuss a story or leave a comment to visit us on Twitter or Facebook. We also welcome your news tips and feedback via email: [email protected]. Thank you.

    The ‘story’ as the Newsroom should point out is the personal opinion of the Legal Goddess, Catriona McClennan.

    Contains no balancing information.

    The public are not allowed to cruticise the publication but are allowed to hold a discussion on social media about it.
    The editor holds themselves above criticism and responsibility for the content, with the only recourse a media complaint.

    Given that there is a reasonable overview of the history on Wikipedia of varying opinions, this ‘news site’ is showing itself to be a totally unreliable source of FACTUAL NEWS.

    Comment by Downunder — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 10:38 am

  6. You will —you will — bounce back Downunder.

    Parents going to court claiming parental alienation will be ridiculed.

    Dr Childress, Craig on youtube –

    Parental alienation is not a psychological construct but effectively attachment based parental alienation or post relationship assault on child attachments is definitely a psychological construct.

    Child becomes a psychological hostage

    Very good info above

    Comment by JustCurious — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 11:05 am

  7. This is half the reason why men commit suicide in NZ and other places.
    No one has measured the amount of damage done to parents through this process.
    Worse the child is destroyed in the process.

    Comment by JustCurious — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 11:07 am

  8. Boy oh boy, do Men ever need a voice , unlike backbone I am sure we can manage to get more than ten people to come forward on the issue of pathological alienation.

    Comment by mama — Wed 26th September 2018 @ 11:31 am

  9. Friday night laughs….

    Comment by mama — Fri 5th October 2018 @ 6:45 pm

  10. Good stuff, thanks mama @9. Oh, sorry, that’s right, we shouldn’t support this stuff that criticizes feminist propaganda because feminists might then not like us.

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Fri 5th October 2018 @ 10:59 pm

  11. 10…I know I know, but you have to have a laugh, however the fact that advertisements are being paid for by their local governments is not so funny.

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 9:06 am

  12. @10 If you want to take a dig at me MomA, you’ll have to do better than that. I’m a huge fan of criticizing harmful feminist propaganda. In fact I’m organising a meeting so we can do just that in a coordinated fashion. All I’ve said is that we need to use some intelligent discernment so that we attack what is evil and leave alone what is good. Hey MomA! You’re a smart guy, why don’t you try using some intelligent discernment?

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 9:13 am

  13. 12,, Dear Audi,,despite guys getting roughed up, to say the least, by current feminism, I do not necessarily think that attacking feminism is what is needed. Maybe not to play into their hands, ignore and just stick to the outcome and use this as the fuel to pacify the situation for our men.

    No need to try to meet them head on, talk or reason, but ignore and use men themselves to try to help scoop out the muddy water. Bringing men together to gain a voice, the voice that comes from a fair stance.

    I emailed Bettina Ardnt, she told me that she has for years been trying to work in with Movember Australia, here Movember here seem the same , although they did say they might be interested to take part in an organised event, but they did not want to have a bar of being seen to stick up for men. There are few mens charities out there and they seem to be the same. Unity is needed but so complicated this seems..WHY?

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 9:37 am

  14. Great Post Mama at 13.
    A united front is all we want.
    Ride feminism but do not fight it.

    Behind every great man there is a greater woman
    But behind every succesful feminist (mother) is a great man.
    As in our PM case…

    Let us Acknowledge what is already here and forge our own path.
    But one does not have to reinvent the wheel.

    No one should be thinking of fighting women
    No one should be thinking of fighting at all.

    But one can learn the art of yielding.

    Before the big winds
    Where the mighty big tree falls
    the reed bends and gains strength as it bends
    So that when the wind stops, it snaps back to it’s former place.
    Stonger and taller, in search of better light

    Comment by jsutcurious — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 10:04 am

  15. @Mama #13

    No need to try to meet them head on, talk or reason,

    Our parliament does this for us, sit down, shut up, and let them have their way.

    but ignore and use men themselves to try to help scoop out the muddy water.

    These men are not on the DPB and easy to find, and are living under oppressive conditions.

    Bringing men together to gain a voice, the voice that comes from a fair stance.

    That’s been going on for the 20 years I’ve been involved and there have been other large groups that Audi knows nothing about who have been doing exactly what he suggests, and many of us here know that they excluded ‘us’ because they considered ‘us’ inappropriate.

    We’ve been here before, and this is probably not so visible.

    Comment by Downunder — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 10:15 am

  16. Down under, hell, I know they are not easy to find, my own son does not want a bar of any of this.
    We have a whole generation of men whose lives have been stripped of them, but they still get up every morning and SOLDIER on, but as for having the inspiration to stand up for what is right for them, they have no wind left in their sails.

    I think it would be useless to expect anything from government, especially this govermnent.

    Men just need to get SEEN somehow, by the public, a media voice somehow.

    I just caught snippets of an article on NEWSNATION on 3, the young woman is making a DOCO on suicide, I do not think she mentioned the word MEN once, she herself was a near victim of her own suicide, she talked of another young woman who features in her doco and young people whom take their lives. The journalist did not confront her on the real stats around suicide,, THIS IS OUR MEDIA???

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 10:44 am

  17. Charlie’s Got The Handle …

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 10:52 am

  18. #16..I just watched NEWSHUB fully,,I take it back,, Simon Shepherd on newshub did question her well on Mens suicidal stats and the young woman, who is from VOICES of Hope spoke of this very well, my apologies…however NO ONE is putting the family breakdown together with the stats,

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 11:13 am

  19. Someone with wisdom said Listen to both sides…
    In that spirit and in the impression that you are more likely to be listened to, if you have listened to the other side…..
    ‘You are not alone’: your reaction to Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony

    Comment by Murray Bacon — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 5:41 pm

  20. I’m not sure what your point is, different opinions on one half of the story?

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 6:36 pm

  21. We=men, other side=women
    The article in The Guardian is giving many women’s emotional reactions to hearing Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony at the Senate Confirmation Hearing of Brett Kavanaugh, for Supreme Court Judge.
    In this instance of listening to both sides, the particular issue is sexual assaults by men on women.
    I am perhaps suggesting obliquely that some of the comments on MENZ seem very focused on men’s interests, to the point of not acknowledging women’s legitimate interests.
    Such a one eyed view is fine for consciousness raising. But if we want to be able to debate in the wider community with influence, we probably need to take a wider view. Consciousness raising among men is much needed at the moment.
    A sub-theme, if one is required, is that of course there are many other variations of sexual and intimate assault. Consideration of women’s positions is a fairly good start to considering all victim’s positions, which while we are being exhaustive, includes men victims too.
    And the bureaucrats shall inherit the Earth…….
    Oops, I seem to have failed to include the word “proletariat”, so I put it in here…..
    Emotional seems to be important, as the linked article is largely emotional communication. Likewise many of men’s complaints have substantial emotional content too.
    But for some strange reason, men’s emotional complaints are presently not as much listened to in the public debate, that leads into policy changes.
    Maybe men need to consider this harsh differential in public influence?
    Even more to the point, what to do to be appropriately heard?
    Perhaps my point is starting to be clear?
    I apologise for the tedious parts and the rest too.
    As MoMA said above #16:

    Men just need to get SEEN somehow, by the public, a media voice somehow.

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 8:55 pm

  22. I am wondering though if men have not already come down the ‘better’ path,,,

    it seems that a lot of the recent venting of victims have been of an historical nature only now coming to the fore as the momentum has gathered….

    we are perhaps in catch up mode,,,I am not sure that with the storm still brewing it might be best to lay low and let it subside,,and only the other day I stupidly thought the time was right.

    I am a ‘girl’ and have not the strategical nouse but staying indoors and stretching out the planning stage may be all that can be done for the now.

    Comment by mama — Sat 6th October 2018 @ 9:34 pm

  23. Shall we have a discussion about life?

    Feminist: “This is my point of view.”
    Man: “This is my point of view.”
    Feminist: “You’re not listening to what I’m saying.”
    Man: “But this is my point of view.”
    Feminist: “You’re loud and abusive and I don’t want to talk to you anymore.”

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 7:47 am

  24. As far as I can see, it cuts both ways……
    I am not pushing one barrow or the other, just suggesting that it is quite possible to get past these – talking past each other situations:
    Man: “This is my point of view.”
    Feminist: “This is my point of view.”
    Man: “You’re not listening to what I’m saying.”
    Feminist: “But this is point of view.”
    Man: “You’re loud and abusive and I don’t want to talk to you anymore.”
    As far as I can see, the majority of NZ are not trapped in these gender fairness discussions. They live lives that make the best of our sexual makeup and include occasional pieces of happiness. Why not?
    In that spirit and in the impression that you are more likely to be listened to, if you have listened to the other side….. I am suggesting that many of the comments on this site not only don’t hear women’s trauma, but are dismissive that it is even an issue worth being considered.
    In the same way, some of women’s discourse not only doesn’t hear men’s trauma, but is dismissive that it is even an issue worth being considered.
    In the spirit that you are more likely to be listened to, if you have listened to the other side….. I am trying to suggest that we approach these issues, searching for ways forward that are palatable, workable and fair for both women and men.
    One of several places that we can start, is to have a much better understanding of women’s trauma, factually and emotionally.
    All credit and thanks to Dale Carnegie. But that was a long time ago…… Some people said similar even before that….

    Comment by MurrayBacon — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 8:12 am

  25. Every news medium in NZ and most in western countries constantly airs feminist propaganda alleging women’s disadvantage and the badness of that other gender. There’s a place for various ways of responding to that. Some will take a moderate approach that takes care to acknowledge feminist concerns and best wishes to them with that approach, but it’s important that others take a harder line. The difference between feminism and even the more focused anti-feminist men is that the men tend to remain true to the facts, to good research, to reason and to protecting and improving their society while feminists seem to care little about any of those things. One can perhaps understand the fear that drives feminists to abandon all decency given how they have been taught to believe about women’s downtrodden history. However, it’s important that some men’s forums provide a place for focus unashamedly on men’s perspectives without feeling the need to join the many other forums and public media that focus mainly or entirely on women’s issues.

    Comment by Ministry of Men's Affairs — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 9:08 am

  26. #25

    In the respect what you have is a media encouraged victim response.

    MeToo – I’m a victim too.

    This requires acknowledgement.

    Yes, we (the feminist administration) acknowledge your, we hear you, and we are here too help.

    This doesn’t include men.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 9:31 am

  27. Since it’s a democracy should we say ‘sub…missions by media?

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 10:13 am

  28. Medium … Media … Mediare?

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 10:18 am

  29. Media?

    It’s news Jim, but not as we know it.

    Understanding based on past experiences. That is generally the way men approach Feminism.

    Media has developed it’s profit centre and that has become an essential requirement … (at the expense of men, no problem)

    Profit considerations aside, its primary bias as we see it is painting a female perspective.

    That is not always what women want.
    That is not necessarily reflective of the majority of women.
    But it is reflective of Feminism.

    Yeap, Charlie’s got the handle, alright.

    You can find the same patterns in most current media campaigns if you know what to look for.

    Anyone who has followed the suicide debate here, saw;

    A government department try to fudge the analysis of the statistics.
    A profiled male campaigner quit over the copy and paste whitewash.
    A media campaign on women’s suicide or attempted suicide.

    The last editorial I copied into a comment was a doozie on how to twist actual news into an article that was ‘arguably’ not about women.

    It’s a competition for them in many cases, as to who can pull the best angle. Lizzie Marvelly revels in the attention she seeks and sometimes gets with her warped analogies of life while some of the older journos, stretch the rules past breaking point to try to keep up with her.

    In this Borg catastrophe what we are seeing is the insane spectrum of the women’s world.

    It has an influence, hysterical influence in some cases, that ripples through society and in particular the youth of today.

    They have no vison of reality.

    I posted an important piece of news on how the coping mechanisms of men are evolving in our contemporary industrial situation.

    Was it too much for anyone’s Feminist infected brain to cope with. To stop for a minute and think about that as a single example of a trend that is not looking to be exposed. (It’s one survival mechanism) and one that others will be using and there will be a multitude of other mechanisms that haven’t yet been identified.

    If you want to argue about fluffy responses to Feminism then your focus is not on men’s issues. Not men’s rights … you see up the top there … it says MENZ ISSUES.

    The flip side to that is that otherwise irrelevant women are being given the opportunity to engage in hostile protests driven by Feminists through the media, or given some form of recognition or inclusion regardless of whether their story is factual, true, or otherwise.

    It’s not even so much about men’s perspectives if I may make the distinction MoMA but about what is happening to men that isn’t being reported.

    And that (as a proposal) is what is currently getting up someone’s nose.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 12:43 pm

  30. YES MR Downunder “about what is happening to men that isn’t being reported.” and here in the problem lies and grows.

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 1:09 pm

  31. And what the Dickens shall we do?

    Is it the power of self-snatchation, we lack, to save us from the yawning gulf.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:14 pm

  32. We need a most amazing spokesperson I guess.

    Maybe we can teach an animal to speak, that would then go viral, after just one sentence.

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:22 pm

  33. Bring back Mr Ed.

    Comment by Downunder — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:27 pm

  34. I wish…he could just say “no truth is ever a lie”..Barbara Streisand

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 2:37 pm

  35. @25 Hi MoMa and you all. I suggest that if people keep talking in good faith they they make their way just a bit closer to the evasive truth. I think I’m starting to get you a bit more and maybe you are starting to get me? I’m guessing you see me as a moderate who takes a soft line as opposed to a hard line. That I’m someone who wants to curry favour with feminists by supporting their causes. I guess you see me as (at least to some extent) a mangina?

    In fact I take an exceptionally hard line against the egregious excesses of 3rd wave feminism. I’m not in the least suggesting the taking of a soft approach. To continue the ‘line’ analogy, I wish to take a very hard line, but be intelligent and tactful (in it’s common meaning and also allowing for the consideration of tactics) in deciding where to draw that line.

    The conversation needs to be about efficacy. It needs to be about what will save men from harm.

    For example I have opined that the thread title “25 Years of Feminist Stupidity” is moronic and misogynistic. That saying such things will simply entrench wide-spread contempt for men’s rights because it associates men rights with woman hating. In other words that statement is a men’s rights own-goal because it draws the line in the wrong place.

    “Audi” has been accused of (somewhat ironically) not listening. But guess what? There has not been a single post so far that disagrees with my challenge to the “25 Years of Feminist Stupidity” title. The breakdown in communication on this matter is not me failing to listen, it is you failing to speak! So fire away. I’m all ears. Let me know how that title is going to be effective in saving men’s lives?

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 3:17 pm

  36. That it was for amusement here on this site only, to release steam and that sort of comradery stuff for one thing.

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 3:32 pm

  37. Good afternoon Audi. Do you feel better after your rant?

    Men’s rights is not about making you feel better Audi – It’s about saving people from harm.

    Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 3:50 pm

  38. @36 Yes Mama, But you have not answered the question I posed. Will making statements like that save men from harm or actually cause men harm?

    Feminist read this site. After they read that they will be even more staunch in thinking that men wish to oppress women. They will fight back. Feminists in positions of power will deny men their rights and their dignity. These men will suffer greatly. Some will kill themselves. This is not a joking matter!

    @37 Hahaha. Very funny Evan… But as above… not at all funny!

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 4:15 pm

  39. 38, Audi,, do you really think any feminist read this sight!..I would have thought they could not help themselves from dropping in occasionally, far out.

    ..and the answer is of course not, but people do find that chewing the cud over and over can sometimes lead to better thinking or even eureka.

    Comment by mama — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 4:32 pm

  40. Thanks Murray. @21 and 24 above you have expressed far more eloquently than I ever could one the major concerns I have been trying to bring to the attention of the people who visit this site. Are you sure you can’t make it on the 3rd of November? We could have a field trip to the pub afterwards 🙂

    Comment by Audi Alteram Partem — Sun 7th October 2018 @ 6:34 pm

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