Child Support – IRD Disclose the number of deaths of the non-custodial parent. IRD calls them customers and they are generally unaware of the cause of death.
IRD are generally unaware of the cause of death. Presumably Sue Gilles thinks what she calls the customers can apply for an administrative review if they have special circumstances. Seemingly she and IRD thinks thats an acceptable disclaimer for their policies. Men, usually don’t ask for help, they just cope. It is how they are wired. And calling the deceased customers??? WTF is that? Zero compassion.
As we all know, it is almost always the father who is the non-custodial parent. That and IRD thinks it helpful to hide the suicides inside the natural deaths, health problems identified by Nurit Zubery Thesis (click here) caused by severe stress.
Well, it looks like 2020 (year of the lockdown) was a bumper year. The best yet. Hon David Parker minister of revenue (including IRD) must be very delighted with that result. A real team effort.
I refuse to call them customers. I will only call them victims of IRD policy.
The least IRD could do is reach out to the fathers and ask if they are coping with it all. Loss of home, loss of their things in the home, loss of income, no faith. Monitor them. How they find living without seeing their kids because seeing them in the eyes of the mother would reduce payments. And when you call them, use a man because they have very good reason to distrust women.
My condolences to the children for their great lifetime of loss. No dad to help you when you need it. Not knowing the bond, love and faithfulness of a father, a grandfather.
One day, and I hope it is soon. A Government, maybe a Prime Minister will step up and say “I will no longer support policy that puts human beings in a place of hopelessness and despair”. You see NZ has these policies for unemployed, the sick, elderly, children, Maori, women, refugees, even plants, pets and live stock. But not separated fathers.
While I am not restricting general comments about the stats, if you are a dad, a grown child, extended family, friends, workmates of the deceased. If you leave a comment, please tell me if you are struggling with payments, how you were treated by IRD, the courts and the mother of your child.
Congratulations with the progress.
Many battlers have since given up and left the site … or the industry that provides the IRD with its customers. They were previously called clients but don’t let that disguise their starting point;
This is an established debt and you have no choice but to pay or negotiate.
In the end I think they decided it was easier to call me a dead person and give up on the debt they had manufactured to target me for being a conscientious objector.
I’m not the only one of course and its not hard to see why there are still so many deaths when they operate this way.
During lockdown social media posts indicated manipulation of the situation by custodial parents. The high number of deaths doesn’t surprise me in that respect.
It’s a political situation and the resistance seemingly something that men should be allowed to die for in the non acceptance of that principle rather than in a war to defend the opposing principle.
It will still take time for a tipping point to understand this.
Comment by Downunder — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 10:21 am
Nice one LukeNZ – would be great to try and get this into a news forum. Those numbers are terrifying. When asked by the Child Support assessor what I thought was the reason as to why the other party would not agree to any amicable financial arrangements for the mortgage – I told him she is doing everything she can to bury me six foot under, to erase my existence. The dead can’t speak and are soon forgotten.
Comment by ErasingDad — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 11:39 am
A joke,the way the IRD system is wired is very strategically well formed.
The formulas the IRD robots use to calculate based on estimation,the amount of interest IRD accumulate from month to month with customers money
They are a joke and it’s daylight robbery but legal.
Administration reviews are a mission to fill out for the smartest person let alone half of the male population.A system designed to fail the people and benefit the government
Comment by Matiu — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 5:39 pm
Downunder, maybe some of the people who have left the site are in the official numbers provided by IRD? – Won’t be hearing from those guys again.
Erasing Dad, Thank you for the tick.
NZ is a tiny country that has this gender policy. Imagine the numbers in Australia? The States? Canada? The UK? France? Anywhere in the west world. Whats the combined grand total?
Those dead fathers are treated as, the cost of doing business. The IRD are upset at the deaths but only because of the loss of that stream of income.
The law says the father has all his stuff taken from him, his children taken and he must work long hours and hand the bulk of it over to his former partner who already has the lot.
There is no fence to protect them, no safety net, no consideration, no understanding. Just hate, anger, bitterness, ruthless treatment that leads to humans committing suicide.
Comment by Lukenz — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 6:35 pm
As far as child support is concerned we are effectively a state of Australia.
Do those stats include all non custodial parents or just New Zealand based?
Comment by Evan Myers — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 8:22 pm
@5 Evan. I can’t answer that one. There is a link in the posting that takes you to the letter IRD wrote. There is no mention of Australia, but I suppose under CER Closer Economic Relations Act you are likely to be right. If its a death of a man who is now living in Oz I see not difference.
Comment by Lukenz — Thu 6th May 2021 @ 10:34 pm
I think IRD are aware of the cause of death because they require a copy of the death certificate.
When will the nonsense end?
Comment by Lukenz — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 6:58 am
If you look back at some of my earlier posts around child support you’ll see how the Australian Revenue Service formed multiple international agreements for child support collection with other jurisdictions.
New Zealand as far as I was aware only had one with Australia, yet Jan Doogue was involved in the European Conference to progress International child support exchange – be a paying parent (financial father) from anywhere in the world, and my assumption then was that NZ would piggy back off that system, so the situation my not be limited to Australia alone.
As far the death certificates go you’ll find posts mainly around the suicide issue that address the question of the role of the police investigating on behalf on the Corner and what information they or the families can provide to an inquest.
I’m not sure if the IRD actually receive the death certificate or simply notification of some form, from the Coroner.
IRD are certainly aware of the situation as I have been approached in the past by their staff about the mental health issues this causes for them and the consequences for some individuals.
Another question I could not get an answer to was the number of suicides amongst their own staff through their role in child support collections.
Comment by Downunder — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 7:39 am
Unless you want to work out an answer yourself.
Or find better reference data, to help answer.
Skip my working out and read my answer.
How many men did they kill (in 2017)
2,537,800 males In NZ. According to stats NZ. (A)
2,574,500 females in NZ. According to stats NZ. (B)
Population 4.794 million (2017) (H)
So as we well know. Just don’t mention men.
https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/Chief-Coroner-Suicide-Stats-2020-Media-Release.pdf
https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/women
Admittedly they do publish gender data.
But no men’s page.
Oh well. I did notice the bigoted, how many children have you had.
In our bigoted Census.
Guessed correctly, the effect.
The intent, remove men from statistics and conversation.
Unless it’s righteousness persecution.
2019/2020
Male 471
Per 100,000 (D) 19.03 (C)
Female 183
Per 100,000 7.18 (E)
Ratio 2.57:1
But they made a mistake.
A hidden secret.
5 Home Duties suicides.
282 Employed suicides.
158 unemployed suicides.
And now.
Hmmm
Being a say at home mum is clearly stressing.
A/DxC= 483. So close to published. For males.
B/Dx(E)= 185. So very close to published. For Females.
Reliable statistics.
What then of the post statistics.
848 (634 in 2017) People died coming in contact with child support.
What then of the cause.
Was it heart attack.
Was it cancer.
We’re they murdered.
Was it a car crash.
Was it COVID 19.
Or suicide.
Some data from 2017.
Deaths total 33,599 (F)
Male deaths 16,997 (M)
Female deaths 16,602
634 deaths. (J)
210 arrears paying deaths.
134090 paying parents. (G)
$473,800,000 ‘cash’, collected.
……….
Add this, as found it while searching.
“This has resulted in a self-perpetuating cycle of the IRD largely chasing up arrears that are just penalties. For instance, as at 31 March 2012, of a combined total IRD child support debt arrears of $2,305 million, 72% of this was the $1,668 million worth of unpaid penalties.”
That’s about 4 years of assessments, or cash collected.
Like printing imaginary money.
……..
So population / deaths, vs payers death rate.
H / F = 142.7
So 1 in 142.7 people will die each year. (K)
G / J = 211.5
So 1 in 211.5 people who pay child support each year die?
Looks safer, but the sample is wrong.
Assumptions.
Child support should be harmful to paying women as well.
Most females would be minimal payers.
Highly dysfunctional, or 50:50 care situations.
Hence why policy is defathering.
Most females deaths occur well after 65.
Very few would die when paying child support.
Unlike men who father children at 50, or 60.
Essentially the deaths should be virtually all male deaths.
So actually ( K ) could nearly be doubled.
Also largely males under 20 have few kids.
The average death age is about 80.
So child males are missing, due to youth.
And 1/2 of deaths are over 80.
Few 80 year olds will be paying child support.
So actually the group dying is 20 to 80 year old males.
If we 1/2 the male death figure to be more correct.
So less than 1/2 of males would be in the democratic.
Who die.
And very few female deaths are possible.
So very little influence, to deaths.
Males ~ 1/2 population.
Only 1/2 males in demographic.
H / 2 / 2 = 1.2 million men. (R)
M / 2 = 8500 dead men. (Q)
Q / J = 13.4 % of deaths. (S)
Ratio of possible males paying Child Support.
R / G = 8.95
About 1 in 9 possible males pay Child Support. 11.17 %
13.4 – 11.17 = 2.23% (T)
So ~ 2.23% of deaths are due to Child Support.
T/SxJ= 105 suicide due to Child Support.
About 1:6 of cancellation of payment, due to death.
……………
Obviously extrapolation of an answer is wrong.
It should be researched by the department.
What is the no of Men vs Women who die.
Number who suicided according to coroner.
The coroner is conspiring to hide facts.
IRD conspires to hide its kill rate.
The 105 figure is commensurate with other attempts to guess suicide numbers.
Caused by Child Support.
Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 10:31 am
The massive penalty problem started back in the early 2000s and I don’t recall whether Cullen was responsible or happened after he separated the Revenue portfolio from Minister of Finance to divest himself of the child support issue.
It’s not in my opinion the same as printing money, it’s creating debt to cause an additional funding stream above any benefit recovery.
Comment by Evan Myers — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 10:44 am
I hope this isn’t true.
As I’m struggling to find a physical / medical reason.
848-634+105=319
319 deaths in 2020?
Unexplained?
Image walking into Bunnings, then dying.
Certainly your death would be investigated.
To some level, punishment, and change demanded.
After all the customer…..in the workplace.
Receiving forced payment deduction from wages.
As a customer…..lol.
Yet they know nothing, to comment.
But know everything, asked.
But just another pawn in Chess game.
There governments.
Yes, only a Crime Against Humanity.
But there are many pawns.
Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 11:40 am
#10
Don’t you mean giving the portfolio to a third party.
I think the event path goes further back.
1984 Labour gains power.
Sweeping changes are made.
Education.
Minister for Women.
Human Rights Commission.
1990 family law reform.
Systematic defathering by law.
1991 Child Support law reformed.
1995 Domestic Violence Act.
Large male suicide rate rise since 1984.
Labour regains power.
Talking about suicide is banned.
Child support passed to a coalition party MP.
2004 Creates Best Interest of the Child.
Massive industry, government funding begins.
White Ribbon.
PSOs
It’s not Ok, campaign.
MeToo.
And a bigoted 4th estate.
To the treatment of males.
Comment by DJ Ward — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 12:26 pm
Not sure how that helps DJW.
The Tax Penalty Regime already existed and should not have been used for child support as it was by the Clark Administration.
The massive increase in penalties represents a claim over future income and put 2 billion dollars into the country’s balance sheet.
Dunne refused to do anything while men died, that’s why we called him, Dunne Nothing, until finally the viciousness of the collection regime was seen through the suicide of a Kiwi tradesmen in Australia which could be published as it was outside of the control of our Coronial jurisdiction.
Suddenly Dunne wanted to do something more than fillfulling his puerile obsession over Andrea Vance but as we can see the outcomes haven’t changed as the system still works off future income and not actual earnings.
This is why people kill themselves.
Comment by Downunder — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 12:26 pm
#12
Dunne wasn’t Minister of Revenue until after the 2005 Election. From memory Cullen palmed if off to Cunliffe.
Comment by Evan Myers — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 3:10 pm
They have known for years. Trouble is the money is just way to hard to give up.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/10590774/Self-harm-threats-soar-for-those-who-owe-IRD
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/taxman-drove-loving-dad-to-death/VDEO72FBGCE3EMFDNMQJIOU27E/
https://menz.org.nz/2015/dear-ird/
Comment by Lukenz — Fri 7th May 2021 @ 9:20 pm
Typically men are isolated, both in the physical sense and in their position in the battle. Some take a burning monk attitude and try to make an exit through some blaze of glory, dying defiantly, but not always visibly, and publicly.
There have been various approaches from both sides.
The special unit that operated out of Christchurch to attack the hardline resisters. This is the other side of the equation – what they were up to rather than how men were reacting without knowing exactly what they were dealing with
Resisters are in contempt of the crown, The Crown is above the law. They started using IRD documents without document-numbers to wage war against individuals.
This process is even outside of the IRD and those deaths of which I am sure there would be some are state sanctioned killings and possibly not included here but was the Coroner informed or would she have been?
(Meaning the files exist outside IRD data capture, not something more sinister)
The complexity of what happened is way beyond the public, the media, and most of New Zealand and in the end it fell in Amy Adam’s lap as Justice Minister to sort it out and the bitch walked away from it.
I’ve no idea what or who changed the position, at this point, perhaps simply that some of us didn’t die. Perhaps it got to the point the persecutors realised the possibility of discovery, maybe too many people started to know, too many people started to die?
This is how the suicide issue itself gradually surfaced, and now we’re 20 years on.
Comment by Downunder — Sat 8th May 2021 @ 7:15 am
I read a bit about farmers today.
A rare look by the media.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/125053225/lands-of-loneliness
I read a piece of research on this issue a year or so ago.
Guessing they reference same.
Obviously Child Support becomes a factor in there lives.
More hidden is the destruction of the finances.
As the partner walks away with 1/2.
There lifetime, slaving, to get to share milking.
Only for forced sales.
And destroying of the business.
Then Child Support for children.
That they will hardly get to see.
Heartbreaking.
That desire for money.
By the male, slaving for success.
The female, cashing up.
Can be such an effective killer.
The Bobby calves, a result of money.
Killed by those above, the farmer.
Offering no choices, to them.
The male, discovering the slavery.
Even the children, pawns, of compliance, used.
Pointless life becomes.
Old friends, drink, drugs, help to escape.
Sold a dream by society, of Equality.
And in his time of need, lawyers cash in.
Offers of no protection, compassion.
Just a formula, of laws.
Death beckons.
Blind as the article.
As I watch them.
Doubling down, for money.
And only an entry, of a blind statistic.
Child Support stoped.
Court cases canceled.
Children, fatherless.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 8th May 2021 @ 10:48 am
It’s our responsibility to stand up and create an environment that provides a future for our children.
To carve out a place in an otherwise harsh world is disguised by success and it’s not something that can be bought.
The lesson was learnt in Rome.
Comment by Evan Myers — Sat 8th May 2021 @ 11:23 am
The link takes to the Ministry of Health suicide prevention action plan for NZ.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/mental-health-and-addiction/suicide-prevention-new-zealand/suicide-prevention-strategy-and-action-plan
What a bunch of idiots.
All you need to do is stop abusing mens and dads rights over property and children.
But thats way to costly. Got to get that money in. Got to abuse men and dads as hard and fast as we can.
They say Every Life Matters. Well except dads and men.
Comment by LukeNZ — Tue 11th May 2021 @ 2:18 am
I have to agree, LukeNZ.
During the period of time Union of Fathers was active we were involved in many areas of men’s issues, with hundreds of men, professionals, workers, farmers, businesses owners … an across the board representation … that was involved in protests, media, submissions, public events, and afterwards another person mapping male suicide trenda found a period of decrease in male suicide consistent with our presence before it started to rise again.
We had branches in every major city, and many provincial cities, held regular national meetings and became a substantial influence.
But in the end all we achieved was a temporary halt in the proceedings and as soon as we went away it all started up again.
The collective expenditure was in the millions of dollars, and this was one of the issues, that the key people couldn’t keep investing the time and money that we were to protect everyone else’s interests besides our own.
Then feminism produces the next cohort of women who make the same or greater demands. Perhaps also we were from a different generation that was more capable of forming a representative organization that was across the board rather than either professional or (without wanting to use a label, I’ll just say) ordinary decent people.
But I’ve said many times, that this is a digital meeting point and what we had can only be recreated when concerned and interested men get together in the same room.
That’s how we started, at a meeting on the North Shore, that I went to because someone rang me and there was about 15 men who had the thing up and running in about 2 hours.
Comment by Downunder — Tue 11th May 2021 @ 5:58 am
A whole new generation of Fathers have now been inducted to the pay as you earn child support blood sucking system… I feel this generation of young Dads are of a time that makes it even more difficult to stop and protect yourself and as for delving into your child support issues?..when the the hell do they get the time for that..it always send a pit gut feeling when a confusing letter from child support lets him know he now owes this or that amount,, his employer has to deal with problems as well on his behalf, it is always a hassle and much stress is created… all in all it is a hellish system when you look at how the ‘client’ is treated.
Some years ago there was a case with IRD in regards to a self employed Man and through dealing with them he was driven to suicide,, after that a be nicer to that clientelle policy was brought about.. I guess it was that change that now allows for a holiday extention on paying the likes of GST.
Light needs to be shone on this issue,,,, but how??
Comment by mama — Fri 14th May 2021 @ 3:37 pm
I think the case you are referring to #21 was an Kiwi in Australia who committed suicide, and that was the only reason that progress happened.
Comment by Evan Myers — Fri 14th May 2021 @ 4:05 pm
@12 I don’t have the ability to understand the formula of your workings.
I only look it as many dads develop health problems at a much higher level like heart attacks and diabetes after divorce. You can’t call those deaths suicide, but you can call it “being sent to an early grave”. Or you can call it a system so persistently brutal.
This policy and law is being used to take men’s life’s long property, belongings and access to his children. It forces men into poverty but worse of all it is causing mental health.
Mental health is a more modern term Governments have coined to call suicide.
You see what happens is a man is left with nothing, in most cases not even a place to live. Usually he will have joint debt in his name.
He’s told by his lawyer if you fight this it could cost you $50,000 to $100,000. He can’t. The Government made sure he has no affordable avenues and no place to go. If he chooses legal aid the lawyers will just try and do a quick settlement and to hell with fighting for their client for that sum.
He hears his former partner has someone else in what used to be his bed. He pays for them to be in his house.
At best he is sleeping at a friend’s place or in his car parked in a reserve. His mind crippled for what has happened to him he can’t work anymore. Bills are piling up. Not used to asking for help he thinks of ways forward. Searches his options to end his anguish and meaningless life. He chooses what he believes the least painful option to end himself.
He writes a letter to his children telling them why he could not cope with it anymore. Tells his kids that he loves them very much. Tells them to live good lives and to look after each other always.
He leaves the letter where it can be found by a trusted person to give to his children when they are old enough to understand.
That night he drives to a quiet place. Unsure how painful it might be, he balances his future and compares it with no future at all.
He pulls out a noose he read how to tie from instruction on the internet. Looks for a tree branch that would support his weight. Climbs the tree. He ties the loose end to the branch he is sitting on. He puts the noose around his neck. He thinks of the best memory he ever had. A time when he first held his newborn baby for the first time. He lets himself fall from the branch.
When the news reaches his former partner, she smiles. She tells the children. They cry. They get a week off school. The Government helps with counselling for a while.
In a few months his partner has the home transferred into her name.
IRD receives the death certificate. It has some medical term on it. IRD adds it to the list of deaths of the non-custodial parent they call customers. Hard to believe the death certificate didn’t mention the gender of the customer.
Every step in the process from the legislator to the scorned woman to the feminist lawyer, Family Court who buys it, the police who escorted from his home with 20 minutes to gather what he needs, the violence program, the protection order he breached when he texted her to see his children. The missing of his children, the missing of his home, his long work hours, his failing health, his final act, the police who cut him down, the endless hurt of the children.
Penalties on established debt my ass! And they say the men are violent ones.
Those crimes are being exposed and will one day soon become main stream media. They will be correctly labelled male genocide by The Hague as they breach Article II section b and c.
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Comment by Lukenz — Sun 16th May 2021 @ 11:58 am
#23 Lukenz
My working is just to show statistically they kill people.
That paying child support while having natural deaths occurring.
Is significantly more deadly.
Important sometimes not to just say things in summary.
Like “ statistics show about 105 men are killed by them each year “.
But to show how I came to the statement.
………..
I totally agree with you on the legal argument, at the end.
That’s the summary to me.
While there is a long list of specific crimes against humanity.
That support your summary.
Killing people, is only one part, to that accusation.
………..
Due to my medical condition.
Suicidal thoughts is something normal to me.
They call it suicide ideation.
Totally rubbish assessment of what happens, from my experience.
I was recently asked, if I thought about method.
Which is inherent, to suicidal thoughts, geez.
Not that I answered them, for good reason.
There is endless options.
I have rules for my thinking.
To help keep myself safe.
Nobody can be physically hurt.
My family don’t find me.
It is as painful as possible.
And worth the sacrifice.
Luckily for me.
My medication works well.
And those thoughts are now rare.
Hopefully in my past.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 16th May 2021 @ 2:42 pm
For the dads who do not kill themselves, all that’s left for them is a heart-breaking existence. Not seeing their children. Unable to make a life for themselves. Survival mode only.
One of such great loss and ruin future.
At some stage if and when that existence becomes unbearable, there will be those suicides too.
I suppose a very thankful IRD won’t have to count them in the stats when their obligations in their view will no longer be their customer. I do not hold that view. I say the law caused the deaths of those dads.
It is nothing short of hideous.
A nations shame. The Government trying all they can to keep it hidden from the public.
The separation and divorce rate is around 50%. I suspect it is much higher for traditional NZ born men. That’s not good odds to risk your sanity, future and being.
If you are a person who has lost their dad to this regime, you may have a claim against the Government.
Comment by Lukenz — Mon 17th May 2021 @ 6:25 am
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-842X.2002.tb00178.x
It’s conclusion shows.
Social Economic Status effects male suicide rates.
It does not affect women.
So tax men, into poverty, to kill men.
https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/84/3/1559/2234936
So again poverty influenced male suicide rates.
Black male rate dramatically rising, over the last few decades.
So has the child living without the father rate.
And child support paying rate.
So Child Support must be a killer.
Or this from another.
“I used the national panel data of Japan to investigate the determinants of suicide. The major findings are twofold. First, the social capital that enhances community integration had a greater effect on the suicide of females than that of males. This is probably because females are less likely to have full-time jobs and thus have more spare time, leading them to seek social involvement in their neighbourhoods and participate in community activities. Second, divorce causes the propensity to commit suicide among males to become about two times higher than that among females because of the compensation costs that males are more likely to pay to females.”
NZ Child support is obviously.
Killing men, by forcing men to compensate women.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sat 5th June 2021 @ 9:28 am
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/125352433/this-government-promised-to-be-open-and-transparent-but-it-is-an-artfullycrafted-mirage
It seems journalists have encountered, inverse Marxism.
What should happen in theory.
“The bourgeoisie also employ social institutions, including government, media, academia, organised religion, and banking and financial systems, as tools and weapons against the proletariat with the goal of maintaining their position of power and privilege.”
So taking into account who is presently Government.
Feminists with Marxist backgrounds.
IE the Marxists, or socialists, using women’s votes, to have power.
Females seem to trend more socialist, males more capitalist.
Sorry progressives, and conservatives, in feel good emotive terms.
So why then the restrictions on information.
The increase in propaganda staff.
According to Marxism, it’s what Capitalism does.
Yet both do it, and now, the socialists more than ever before.
………………
Obviously IRD Child Support, the post, is a good example.
Information provided, without saying anything.
Who died?
How many threatened suicide, to them, beforehand?
There ages?
Cause of death?
What investigations of customer deaths, did they conduct?
What was the conclusions?
What other ministries were involved?
Did they investigate no deaths, by suicide?
Of there customers?
Why did they commit suicide?
They Family Court may be able to tell us.
Certainly all 22 the legal process helped kill, admitted.
Would have intimate records of events.
And with integrity examined, without bias.
If not.
What is the legal consequences.
Assessment of risk to customers.
Is a legal obligation.
People are dying.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 6th June 2021 @ 1:13 pm
Vance is a cunning bitch and I think with some serious hurt, herself although she’s never actually said what that is.
She’ll play victims advocate when it suits her.
She calls the government thin skinned, sensitive to criticism and objection.
And in that sense she’s right, they are becoming insular and defensive.
What you’re seeing there is her not being able to separate herself from the personal and the professional.
It’s something similar to what happens here on MENZ.
That’s a real life bigger picture, and it shows you how one day you can be so right and the next so wrong.
Comment by Evan Myers — Sun 6th June 2021 @ 6:02 pm
I note for the record. The muster of victims for 2020 was 848. But this was only for 10 months.
If the trend continued for a full 12 months the total for 2020 would be 1017 victims.
Thats about 2.79 men per day.
I acknowledge some will be heart attacks and other sicknesses. But these are brought about by stress, as detailed in the Nurit report.
https://menz.org.nz/2021/burit-zuberys-wrote-a-thesis-on-the-impacts-of-men-during-and-after-divorce/
The reason for this post is to say. If the current trend continues, and I have seen no shift in policy to make me believe otherwise, in the 49 days since I made this post, more or less 136 dads have died.
Workings
2020. 10 Months = 848 deaths means 84.8 deaths per month
1017 per year.
2.79 per day
And by the end of business today. 3 more dads will die. 3 sets of children will be fatherless.
If I have my working wrong, please let me know.
Comment by Lukenz — Thu 24th June 2021 @ 6:06 am
I have come to the conclusion that Child Support.
Is a crime, on far to many occasions.
Men that are not fathers, due to fraud, paying.
That’s obviously a crime.
Males who had a sex crime, resulting in conception, event.
That’s obviously a crime.
But it can be corrupt in other was.
The crown desiring money.
Tells a man who wants to have his kids.
Is told no, and given a few days a month, if he’s lucky.
Does the crown, the financial benefactor.
Then force a payment, on that person.
That if given, equal justice, would not pay.
That is obviously a crime.
So they commit lots of crimes.
Yet there is no accountability.
Even for those victims, who suicide.
As a result, of corruption, racketeering, Political, and legal.
…………
It’s those White Ribbons.
They are not about, protecting anybody.
It’s tokenism, displaying loyalty.
To the promise, of a fatherless nation.
Comment by DJ Ward — Thu 24th June 2021 @ 5:56 pm
http://www.forourchildren.org.nz/Resources/Research++Policy/Research+and+Reports/Takeaway+Statistics.html
stats like .. For youth aged 15-24 years, New Zealand has the second highest rate of suicide for males among selected OECD countries.
Ref: NIHS (National Institutes for Health and Safety),,and..from 2001,,New Zealand has the developed world’s highest rate of births outside of marriage (44%), and the third-highest teenage birth rate (after the USA and UK). Nearly a third of all children grow up in fatherless homes.
Ref: Statistics NZ, 2001.
I would indeed like to know how much for total NZ child support bill.
Comment by mama — Sun 27th June 2021 @ 2:03 pm
Excerpt from IRD email regarding improved services for customers 🙂
“Payment by deductions from salary and wages to become compulsory
One key change is that it will become compulsory for returning and newly liable (paying) parents to have their child support payments deducted from their salaries or wages. This will not apply to parents already paying child support, unless they miss future payments and fall into debt.”
Comment by ErasingDad — Wed 22nd September 2021 @ 11:50 am
If Child Support causes suicide.
Then the more severe the payment, suicides should increase.
So a parent paying for one child, should have less risk of suicide.
A parent paying for 4 or more children, should have a higher risk of suicide.
Obviously getting those statistics from IRD, is not going to happen.
So assumption.
“Excerpt from IRD email regarding improved services for customers”
Obviously it’s there benefit, to have complete control over, payments.
There argument is the customer has less risk of falling into debt.
So you get your wages.
Tax 30%.
Child Support 30%.
Student loan 10%.
Cost of living 33%.
Looks like debt.
Then if I am not wrong, it is taxed again.
Even the cost of living has GST.
The Child Support effecting the mothers, benefits.
Her Working for Families money, reduced.
In effect taxing, even the Tax paid Child support money.
…………..
Child support rates are to high.
They are allowed to be to high.
Killing people.
Because those dying are males.
And effects on the male customer.
His rights, of a dignified life.
Ignored, for the money.
To take everything, is not reasonable.
Comment by DJ Ward — Wed 22nd September 2021 @ 12:48 pm
#33 Totally agree. I’m one of those customers that got that IRD email. I pay for 3 children. Ex works part time – 24 hours per week. My child support and benefits cover the rest. Apparently her expenses are over 10K a month. So she wants 3K additional from me on top of the 3K I already give. How can someone ask for money the other person doesn’t have and the system allows it to go to a hearing?
Comment by ErasingDad — Wed 22nd September 2021 @ 1:02 pm
#34 Because they can assess you on “potential income” if you are self employed. In other words, they don’t believe that you are earning to your full potential. In fact, they BELIEVE that you are deliberately under earning so as to avoid paying more child support. If you are in Auckland, I suggest you attend the meeting held in Epsom on Thursday evenings when lockdown is over. Look in the Support section at the top of the page. We can put you in touch with a former IRD Child Support contractor.
Comment by golfa — Wed 22nd September 2021 @ 9:24 pm