‘Domestic violence debate dominated by women’s perspectives’
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‘Domestic violence debate dominated by women’s perspectives’
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Wow, just wow, you really nailed it Wayne. thank you.
Comment by Dominic NZ men — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 7:16 am
What a fantastic article Wayne. I am impressed that this made it to print. I’ve been thinking about this proposal from the law society allowing women the lesser charge of manslaughter in DV cases. There is just no way you can trust that the threshold of evidence corroborating DV is going to be greater than ‘he hit me!’ by the murderer accused. I hope to God there are sensible people like Wayne in our system to stop this from passing into law. I’ve spent the last year living next door to an absolutely dysfunctional couple. She would hit and abuse him all day within earshot of the neighborhood. He would get drunk as the day progressed and predictably beat her up. I am in sales and often visit people in their house. I know that if I haven’t sold her, I’ve got no chance at closing. There is an ongoing myth that men hold and exercise power. This is sometimes the case but tends to be the exception not the rule. Women have always had power and the state has just fortified this. They don’t need this law to further advance state-backed sexism. Institutional sexism NEVER favors men.
Comment by GIJoe — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 8:01 am
The bad behaviours of women needs to be addressed – if that doesn’t happen, all we are really doing is feeding the so called ‘help provision industry’ the ‘troughers’
Comment by MrFatsworth — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 8:36 am
This is a great article Wayne, congratulations. I’m surprised Stuff published it, and that they are allowing uncensored comments.
Comment by JohnPotter — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 8:41 am
Great work Wayne Burrows.
If ever your in Christchurch I’d like to buy you a beer.
Comment by voices back from the bush — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 9:20 am
Honour, self deprecatingly and humbly jokingly called “shame”.
Maybe also taking the piss out of the shaming tactics unashamedly being used by manipulative women who moan more than do. Good on you!
You commented that: Fergusson has claimed that women are more frequently the perpetrators of child abuse.
one reference of good quality: Child Maltreatment 2013 USA
Look to page 49.
From website: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/
Some people think that it is ok to suffocate a child under a blanket, so that there are no bruises, but it is criminal to smash a child quickly to death.
In my book a quick death is relatively more merciful, than years of emotional neglect, followed by suffocation or poisoning by tablets to death.
The violent example allows the (child callous) among us to look down and feel good about themselves, all the while doing nothing to help.
Child protection is not leaving children in the care of unskilled or incapable parents. It isn’t fun making such decisions, but you cannot protect a child smashed to death, afterwards!
In theory, you can protect a neglected child afterwards, but only the cruellest sadists would see such a scheme as acceptable. A fence at the top of a cliff seems so much nicer than an ambulance and painkiller at the bottom.
MurrayBacon – axe murderer.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 10:43 am
Good work Wayne
And good on Stuff for publishing.
Domestic violence will never be fixed.
Until women stand up.
And take responsibility for their actions.
The opposite of White Ribbon.
Comment by DJ Ward — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 11:11 am
A great article Wayne. Very concise and backed up with statistics. Amazing that it got published.
There is another aspect to female to male violence, which is that the feminist movement has created a bias against men, and so the agencies of the State (eg police, social welfare, hospitals) actually oppress and discriminate against men, on behalf of women. What this means for the average man is that it is the women in domestic relationships who actually exercise overwhelming power and control, since they simply need to push the button to get the state agencies do the violence on their behalf. So a violent women does not need to do much herself at all. All she needs to do is activate the police, get her victim arrested, make false allegations, gain custody of the children, keep living in her house, get the state to substitute the financial support of the man, and take out a restraining order. It is so simple, and effective, that the mere presence and threat of this violence is enough to make women the dominant member of the partnership. Most men realise this power differential, and most cope with it the best they can. The ones who lash out, are used as raw material for media releases by the feminist movement. This kind of injustice is very common in all societies. Think of Blacks and Police in USA. Think of Castes in India. What is so very difficult for men, is to understand this deliberate and strategic oppression is coming from women who claim to love them. Both wives, partners and mothers claim to love men, but as a group they do exactly the opposite. It is rugged journey of emancipation which the 3 year old, the 15 year old and 30 year old male eventually needs to make. Unless this is done, the oppression and marginalisation of men will simply get worse.
Joseph
Comment by Joseph — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 1:07 pm
When it comes to MMA star Ronda Rousey, is there a domestic violence double standard?
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/us-sports/when-it-comes-to-mma-star-ronda-rousey-is-there-a-domesticviolence-double-standard-20151111-gkwtm7.html
Comment by kumar — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 1:39 pm
Despite what others have said here Stuff were very good and helpful in publishing this piece. I wrote to them about the article of Rachel Stewart which I thought was one sided:
“I am writing regarding the piece published 26/10/2015 written by Rachel Stewart entitled “New Zealand has reached the pinnacle of world number one in domestic violence”.
In this piece Stewart paints only one side of the very complex issue of domestic violence. There is much evidence that show that women contribute significantly to domestic violence statistics as perpetrators and similarly men as victims. This perspective is ignored in Stewart’s article.
My understanding is that under industry standards you are obligated to provide balance on all controversial issues of public importance. On this issue there is seldom seen any balance in the media.
Can you please inform me whether you intend to publish any opinion from a more balanced perspective. If you have no one then I may be able to help you find some one or be willing to write a balanced well informed article based on publicly available data and opinion.”
And they replied:
“Thanks for your email and for your comments on this important and complex topic.
Under Press Council standards, when an issue is long-running, as this one is, the press is not required to cover every single side of an issue in every story, and this particularly applies in this case as an opinion piece.
As such, I’m comfortable with the piece as it stands.
However, we are always interested in hearing all perspectives on any debate, and it sounds like you have quite a bit to contribute to this topic. Would you be interested in providing an opinion piece of your own, outlining your views with regards to men as victims and the contribution of women to domestic violence statistics? I’d be more than happy to take a look.”
Janine Fenwick who I dealt with was very good and helpful. I wrote and submitted the article. Janine asked me for some references for data and people I had quoted. I found the references, they did some minor massaging – adding links for references instead of a list at the bottom – and otherwise published it pretty much as I had written it.
PS. I am in Christchurch from time to time and would be happy to catch up with anyone whether or not you buy me a beer.
Comment by WayneBurrows — Thu 12th November 2015 @ 7:00 pm
I have a simple suggestion, what if simply all men from NZ who are victims of family courts refuse to work or to pay alimony? wouldn’t that bring the whole system down to the men’s knees? Why don’t we try that?
Comment by Stranger — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 6:21 am
This comment has made speaking out extremely worthwhile:
“This is probably the first article I’ve read on this subject that doesn’t make me feel completely alienated/”victim-blamed” (excuse the buzz phrase), so thank you.”
Comment by WayneBurrows — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 8:29 am
@ Wayne, you must be having a beer yourself with the comments on your article being so supportive that’s almost unheard of and shows a rare glimpse to outsiders of just how bad the problem is ! You have certainly done well with stuff.co.nz regardless.
Next time you are up in Auckland please contact me and I will happily shout you a beer.
@ Stranger, its a good thought and something I tried, then they just started automatically deducting it from my bank account and threating my company if I didn’t.
They win every time when it comes to collecting C/S.
There are ways to minimize this but its extremely hard.
Comment by Dominic NZ men — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 2:54 pm
That’s an impressive piece of writing Wayne.
A lot of good work in there – great to see it published in main stream media.
Comment by Downunder — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 3:42 pm
It is interesting that Rachel Stewart’s opinion piece that I quoted at the beginning and that spurred me to write to stuff was published without comments. I do not know what Stuff’s policy is regarding comments. However I suspect there maybe some surprise with the level of support in the comments. Also in my experience commenting on posts on this topic from other perspectives one often gets abused for voicing a different opinion. The standard of debate on this article was much more respectful than that. Which is good.
Comment by WayneBurrows — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 6:27 pm
I think Stuff got locked into getting ‘clicks’ on articles, as a driver to attract advertising.
That’s a doomed-to-failure policy, that can only run for so long.
Let’s hope this is not a one-off, but a return to more sensible journalism.
Comment by Downunder — Fri 13th November 2015 @ 7:22 pm
Downunder, you are so sweet and nice. They are running profit oriented businesses, so income is the most important issue.
In NZ, through the last 20 years, there has been a steady withering of paid investigative journalism. The public fail to appreciate it’s value to them, the extent to which it helps protect the quality and value of their lives. (Many would rather spend it in alcohol or in brothels….)
So, the new buzword is contributor journalism, where the public provide the investigative journalism, at no cost or legal risk, to the publisher. This is what Wayne has shown up so well, through his hard work.
I can’t see any point in harking back to the golden past (as I do too often). We just have to wake up and get on with the new style journalism.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 10:28 am
Silent Victims | Bettina Arndt, the Weekend Australian
DateSaturday, November 14, 2015
[The link is to the 1in3 campaign website, as the source, The Weekend Australian is behind a paywall.]
Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 11:54 am
Don’t quite agree Murray.
Advertisers will stop investing in clicks and look harder at what will generate sales, and where their advertising dollars are best spent.
The threat to corporate news is increasing – with alternatives on the rise, and increasing frustration with the quality of content, and information.
I don’t think this is harking back to the past – more heading toward full circle.
Comment by Downunder — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 12:03 pm
Damn. I have spent a lot of time today posting replies to several commenters on Wayne’s Stuff article. The site stated they were awaiting moderator approval, then suddenly the comments seemed to be closed and there is no sign of any of mine. I won’t bother with Stuff again.
That’s not to detract from your success in getting your article published Wayne, well done! There is a changing tide but the feminists will fight violently to try to stop it.
Comment by Man X Norton — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 4:23 pm
Rachel Stewart joins other feminist commentators in claiming that NZ has the highest rate of domestic violence in the developed world. This claim is almost certainly spurious. For example, if we look at family violence homicides NZ’s rate of 0.72 per 100,000 is average when compared with that of other regions: Americas 1.4, Asia 0.6, Europe 0.8, Global 0.9. (2013 figures taken from https://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/Chapter_2-2.pdf)
It may be true that police call-outs to family incidents is relatively high and indeed appears to have been increasing, but that’s unlikely to be due to increased or even internationally high rates of actual violence. Firstly, NZ has a small population and robust infrastructure that tends to keep demographic records more reliably and accurately than many larger countries. Secondly, NZ has long had specific family violence legislation administered by the Family Court that encourages allegations with minimal standards of evidence or proof. Thirdly, the NZ police have been required to prioritize family violence and breaches of Family Court protection orders. Fourthly, NZ has mounted strong publicity campaigns denouncing family violence and encouraging reporting of it, and those campaigns were likely to reach a broader proportion of our population than would be the case in larger and more racially, educationally and economically diverse countries.
The statistics on which Rachel Stewart and other feminists base their catastrophic claims in fact are likely to reflect a lower tolerance for domestic violence, higher reporting and recording rates and more robust management of it. But instead of celebrating this the feminists prefer to misrepresent the statistics for propaganda purposes.
Even when it comes to family homicides (the most serious form of domestic violence), international comparisons are likely to be skewed by differences between jurisdictions. NZ police solve nearly all homicide cases thereby identifying quite accurately those due to family violence, while in larger population centres this may not be true. So even this measure is likely to overestimate the NZ problem compared with other countries. Across all developed countries including NZ, family homicide rates have been steadily decreasing over the last few decades. This is against the trend of NZ’s increasing family violence allegations and police call-outs, further evidence that those increases reflect reducing tolerance of family violence rather than increased rates.
Comment by Man X Norton — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 4:24 pm
Yes, Man X Norton, similar thoughts on the domestic violence front.
I like your thinking there.
Comment by Downunder — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 5:38 pm
Remember that police are “output driven”. Government set targets for prosecution of various offences. As a result, sometimes complaints are “redirected” into other offence types, when targets for one offence have already been met, but another category needs to be increased.
Police Challenge Integrity of NZ DV Statistics
Police Admit False Claims about Rugby Domestic Violence
More Lies About Domestic Violence
Protection Orders – The Quantitative Figures
As well as the number of offences prosecuted, there are difficulties with the degree of offence required, to lead to a prosecution.
Many prosecutions these days appear to be for technical offences, not for events as violent or as dangerous, as required to lead to a prosecution 20 or 40 years ago. It takes careful looking into the details of each case, to verify whether the prosecution is for a serious of trivial incident. Generally neither the public, nor news media have such detailed access to the criminal prosecution files…..
So, extreme caution is required when making comparisons based on official statistics, especially those published by police.
Hospitals data is generally more straightforward to interpret. Nonetheless, comparing hospital days stayed, sometimes needs to be adjusted for differences in stay times as modern treatments typically involve less time in hospital, for the same degree of violence in the incident.
Emotional trauma is extremely difficult to monitor or measure, but it usually has more long term impact than the actual violence itself. Many situations which traumatise, may be ignored in evaluations. For example, arbitrary loss of access to your own children, is often far more traumatising than judges are willing to admit in public. This figure is large enough, to be fairly easily picked out of national suicide statistics, yet is still wholeheartedly ignored, by the unprofessionals in familycaught$. These statistics are just buried and forgotten.
It is “funny” how the families don’t complain much? Were the men worthless?
If so, then why do these “losses” affect the children so much?
I cannot get my brain around these issues.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Sat 14th November 2015 @ 9:49 pm
Man X Norton.
I agree with your comment on feminists fighting back.
If you have invested huge effort in creating an empire.
Having the public find out that is based on lies.
Is a nightmare for them.
But it will happen.
No matter what.
The services they provide do have a place in society.
As equally as a Ministry for Men has a role to play.
When they embrace the truth.
They can move forward.
And become for the benefit of society.
Much stronger.
Rather than slowly but surely.
Destroying it.
For personnel greed.
As is presently the case.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 6:41 am
I read Wayne Burrows item this morning on STUFF. Am shocked it got posted at all.
I am exhausted. I despaired long ago that gender equality and justice was even possible in New Zealand.
I stopped watching TV years ago. I do not subscribe to papers, but never the less this prejudice still enters my life through community newspapers city signage, my PC desktop and in advocating for my daughters. I can’t enter Social-Warfare’s office without a tray of white-ribbons in my face, “Not-OK” posters on the wall, and mini-leaflets on every desk. So I stay home and go without.
In my view the only way to get gender justice and equality is for the one set of laws to be applied in the exact same way to all peoples regardless of race, age or gender. This is my devout belief.
In a country where Polices wear badges of bias on their breasts [White Ribbons], it is hopeless to dream of gender equality and justice. That the officers wear White-Ribbons does not evidence that they are any better or less violent or better parents than we are. An officer attending an incident in my home defended the woman with his own admission that he smacks his kids. That is against the law – but he was just defending the abuser because she was female. And although he goes home and will physically chastise his children, he probably wears and dispenses White-Ribbons as if he is somehow better than us.
Two days ago I saw a new item in the Herald that women who kill a male abuser should get leniency. It’s a slippery slope, and repugnant at least because it is conditional upon gender. Quite some irony in my opinion, especially since not long ago “Provocation” was removed as mitigation for violence. This item seems to authorise women to be judge, jury and indeed a real executioner – then to receive leniency. That leniency presumably extended upon her testimony, at a time when the victim of the killing cannot testify for themselves. Well in New Zealand that’s what JUSTICE looks like.
In my view its very ironic that women feel free to vilify their sons. There is not and never has been any male who is not born to women. Males are all conceived by, carried by, born to, and [with few exceptions], educated by and morally trained by women – all too often biological Dad is excluded without good reason. I hear all the time how “behind every successful man is a woman”, so how is it that they are not so keen to have their role in raising their not so favourite sons recognised the same way. Cherry picking!
Our local Accident and emergency department is riddled from the entrance doors inwards with stickers and posters blaming my gender for all violence- and that does smear me undeservedly. No doubt the same folks who feel it Okay and even righteous to vilify my gender, have other groups whose rights and reputations they would protect with total aggression. Those signs and stickers are unacceptable, obscene and obnoxious. I cannot permit myself to go to the ED, even though recently I suffered substantial accident injuries. No point calling an ambulance because where would they have taken me! All I have left is the knowledge that I can be proud of myself and that I protected and raised my kids well. Also, where are the multitudes of violent males which if popular propaganda is true, must exist somewhere?
And so more than a month after injury, I am still self-treating, because treatment which should be available to me as of right free of charge – is not free. The cost of attending is that I surrender my dignity and self respect by being in clear view of their repugnant signage for many hours, knowing that to protest will see me turfed out by security. They hold my treatment to ransom-That price is too high for me to pay.
It amazes me that I can relate my family’s ordeal to strangers without any reference to males as victims; and yet after hearing it, typically they come back asking “don’t you care about violence towards women? Those of you, who know our story, know full well that I have cared and still care, and have cared for decades in a practical way about violence towards women. And so when ever someone comes back with that question, it only reveals their own inability to listen and think critically on the facts – they all seem too ignorant to notice that.
Our case arose from women’s violence, against our two daughters. Daughters are automatically “women” aren’t they? Seems not in NZ! The constable who attended the most serious and dangerous incident, asked me “what are you doing to cause your wife to harm the children?” So if a woman offends, males are still at fault according to police. How can one trust police statistics on violence?
Although police stats are offered as if they are reliable when they support the usual propaganda, I can relate an instance where the Anti-violence media [TVNZ] misrepresented the story when the data was not to their liking.
For example: on Saturday 25 November 2012, TV-1 News did an item about family violence. It was the usual propaganda, and finished with the usual numbers for women to call. That item was in response to Statistics released by police showing an alarming upswing in family violence deaths. Who bothers to find out what the police were alarmed about? – Well I did. The data showed there was an upswing in domestic deaths, but not among females. Female deaths remained the same. Male deaths not only out numbered female deaths, but had increased alarmingly. The specifics of the Police data were not aired to the viewers. This was the NEWS after all. Most people watching will have assumed that men were killing more women. Never let inconvenient facts get in the way of a good propaganda story. I complained to TVNZ and then to the BSA. I lost both complaints. It seems handling the facts in this way are right and proper. I no longer watch TV.
Please forgive me a little excursion to explore statistics and impressions a bit further. I have a retired surgeon friend [Never on your site] who is convinced that I am wrong about the statistics of family violence. He has worked long in Emergency departments and performing surgery. His ED experience convinces him that males are responsible for almost all violence against women; but more than that; the violence against Hospital staff. He belief is an ad-hoc personal poll of those appearing before him for treatment. He of course could not see the many who for a multitude of reasons either won’t present at A+E, or they misrepresent the violence to some other cause. I certainly discovered soon on in our ordeal that my being male made me an offender and a non-person. To blame women was to endanger both myself and the children. I have never reported myself as a victim. If you are male, then you are less likely to admit to being harmed by a woman. Even if you did, then her word [NOT YOURS] is taken as gospel.
I can’t know about the violence towards staff, but I try to point out how stacked, his ad-hoc amateur survey might be. For instance even though I was the safe parent of injured children taking them to ED, I was never asked by hospital staff whether Family violence might be involved? It seems I was assumed the offender even then. I was told to “Man-up”¦ you can’t say that about a woman!” “Come on”¦ you’re a man!”. Then the cop blaming me anyway and I got no understanding at work either. I was isolated.
Currently I have a personal carer, and I hear the story of her young son who seems to be regularly beaten up by girls. He never goes to hospital, but vanishes to self treat as I do. We are never polled or counted for statistics except we might show up in peer reviewed longitudinal studies – which are never used in the so called anti-violence campaigns.
Its okay for females to acquire the victim status. I’m sure some put a value upon the “victim status” as if a badge of female passage – even if they are not. It’s a very different story for Mother’s sons.
My most harmed daughter once approached White-Ribbon at the Feilding Market day, and she informed the White-Ribbon women that women are also violent. One might imagine that my daughter being an abused female from birth, she might have sympathetically treated. But no! Police were on hand conducting a sausage sizzle in support of white Ribbon, and this occurred about 3 metres from their BBQ. White Ribbon women turned on my daughter with a vicious tirade. They reduced her to tears publicly in front of police. She came over sobbing. I imagined onlookers might think I had hurt her, so I took her home for my protection. White Ribbon Hypocrites! Police hypocrites! Family violence is a crime only if you are some mother’s son. And White Ribbon is only interested in violence against SELECTED women- NOT ALL WOMEN.
We had another unpleasant incident involving Air New Zealand. A gender policy was created that bars unaccompanied children from being seated beside stranger males on planes. I had to take my daughters South to Christchurch for a paediatric neurological ACC evaluation. We boarded the small plane and we all seated in close proximity. Cabin crew were insistent I move away to be seated away from my girls. My youngest became very distressed by this – it was her first flight and wanted Dad beside her. My girls were not unaccompanied – I was with them. Crew made mo inquiry into whether we were related or not. Crew were very resistant to reason until my youngest was overcome with distress. No apology was offered. Obviously Air New Zealand crew judged me without any facts at all, as being a paedophile. Of course any of the female murderers and abusers could sit beside children in flights without a murmur from crew, simply because they are female. Its noteworthy that the only hijacker in New Zealand airspace was female. My Human Rights complaint was unsuccessful.
I take issue with calling all violence a “CRIME” – not necessarily so. Of course it can be a crime, or be made a crime, but in many cases doing so just shuts the door on all positive reconciliation outcomes. In reality we all have our high and low attributes. That is natural and normal. Growing is getting to know them, to utilise the positive and to mitigate the negative ones.
Sure I expect to be vilified for having that opinion. After all in this free land, our opinions MUST CONFORM – or else. But I see no time in human history, no precedent, and no current example where the human animal is not prone to fighting and deceiving for whatever reason it deems fit. It seems innate, just like a cat roaming free and catching mice. So surely anyone who contends that violence can be stamped out is at best utterly deluded – but isn’t that the mantra of our so called Anti-violence lot?
Raising boys in this culture and this way ensures a number will be so aggrieved as to lash out, fight back and thus appear to justify the corrupt violence campaign’s spurious claims.
There is a body of evidence that we don’t have free-will, and of course, FREE-Will is a necessity for judging, blaming, and punishment. So the idea that hitting is necessarily CRIMINAL isn’t as safe as it’s assumed to be. I don’t see my kids abuser as CRIMINAL – Just like a male in her situation, she could have benefitted from mentoring, assistance, and maybe some therapy. If a CRIME was committed, then I attribute it to the anti-violence entities which intervened. They should first have done no harm. They should have investigated the facts [they did not – vide court judgement]. They should have tried assistance, support and mentoring before taking sides. They should have ensured both parent ability to parent were preserved long enough for the truth of the situation to be known. But instead they knowingly exploited the emergency for their feminist hatred of men. They did commit perjury. They had to pay some costs to me because of it. The lawyer got their cheque – we never got a cent.
I encourage also that people consider This.
Where do abused children go to when they turn seventeen?
Such children can live with permanent life blighting consequences which stay past seventeen through lives to their end. Our experience is that the supposed “Anti-violence” clan’s interest in abused children stops the moment the kids turn seventeen. But Physical, social and psychological consequences do continue, and from age seventeen, the state treats such kids as lazy fat, parasitic scum if they have to line up for meagre funds or psychiatric treatment in order to stay alive. Along with this poverty and depression with low self esteem, comes a dangerous lifestyle- such as living in doss-houses, being homeless, being exploited; or mixing with others who have even more negative challenges with them. How long the state and the anti-violence lot self congratulated and undeservedly glorified themselves while exploiting these damaged kids – but at seventeen, kids don’t evaporate, nor teleport to Mars, they are still here and treated as scum by those who disrespect equality and justice. Police who once attended supposedly for their safety are now more likely to be treating them as criminal.
The Anti-violence people congratulate each other as good clean decent righteous folks; they build empires; talk of the “tips of icebergs”; acquire power they wield corruptly; all the while enacting hatred towards [mostly] males who came from women. I put mostly in there, because some will know, my girls were not acceptable in women’s groups. Their experiences did not fit. They were welcome within the MENZ movement. The feminist treat females who do not fit, as they do men. In the eyes of the hypocritical Anti-Violence movement, the enforcers and the Government with its NGO’s like men – they don’t count.
Its bizarre! Although John Key’s accusation about Labour being supporters of Rapists, murderers, and paedophiles is extremely offensive and dishonest as well as incompetent; with great regret, I cannot join the loud calls for him to apologise. The reason is that my call would blend in with the group who does us so much harm. They have already said it’s “Not-OK” and that identifies their approach with the biased “Not-OK” campaign, which in truth is a gender weapon along with the establishment and white-ribbon always used to vilify men. The hijacking of this outrageous issue prevents me from standing as I would want to on this. I cannot betray my principles to support “Not-OK” in its current prejudiced form.
I have considered the gender war carried out by feminism to be a force in the world, and together with Taliban, ISIL and other oppressive fanatical groups, not a good one. I admit to wondering what will happen when Feminism tangles with the world’s other fanatics? I fear for my daughter’s, because they by appearance alone, they look [not behave] the same as fanatical females. And no, I’m not talking about women not being equal to men at all – my record is in fighting for their safety, and for them to thrive in every way. I just fear that when feminism collides with other fanatics, innocents will get hurt. I do not want my daughters anywhere near that.
Sadly, this eruption from me ends without building my hopes, for myself, for my family, for my friends, for my community, for my nation, or for the world. It’s hopeless!!!
Feminists can never be my equal. Being equal is up to them. They don’t realise that it’s their own policies which prevent equality. To be my equal, they must not cherry-pick the equalities they desire only. A woman who kills a male albeit provoked, must be treated the same as a male who kills a female albeit provoked.
This incessant campaign to have separate laws and leniency prevents their equality. Even if reluctant, males are made responsible for what they think, do, and say. At times we are made responsible for what we don’t think do or say. Whatever policy is being actioned, it must apply equally regardless of gender race or age.
I look forward to the abolition of all special exceptions based on gender.
Comment by equality — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 9:58 am
equality #25: Thoughtful and insightful commentary, thanks. I would suggest though that you don’t deny yourself access to health and other state services, and indeed don’t take it all too seriously in general. It’s easy to feel defeated and hopeless or to cut off your nose to spite your face, but that’s letting the terrorists win. Fight back with a smile. Usually you won’t be harmed significantly if you state your opinion in a non-threatening way. Kia kaha!
Comment by Man X Norton — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 11:13 am
Very informative thoughts and facts on these posts.
Thanks Murray Bacon for the info and links.
I really liked how simply Joseph summarised with his comment @ 8.
Comment by voices back from the bush — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 11:59 am
Another way of phrasing the comments @8 might be to say that women extract violence from others by creating victimhood.
Notice the recent uproar in parliament when the female MPs walked out and starting trotting out their victimhood – they’ve all got a story – yeah right.
It’s a same thing – I’ll win with sympathy from somewhere.
Comment by Downunder — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 2:12 pm
Beautifully said equality and Man X Norton.
The post and all of the comments cover this subject really well. I see them as a challenge to action, but what?
I guess the most important issue is in the next election to persuade men that they need to vote in self and boy children interest, rather than national interest.
So, thanks to everyone.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 2:23 pm
Thanks for sharing your story equality.
I do not know how these stories get lost in the dialogue.
Comment by WayneBurrows — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 4:55 pm
I thank Man X Norton for caring about my health. There is a long history behind my health decision. I really cannot tolerate being around the signs of prejudice and those who post them. The most common response I get, has not come up in these comments – It goes “Its okay to go because the staff won’t be prejudiced like the signs!”, well they are. I refused to sit in the radiology waiting room exposed to the signs. So I took a chair into the adjacent corridor – what a scene resulted. That woman staffer was almost hissing with anger. How can we fight this or change anything if we just smile? Others get instant extensive media coverage if they are not treated with dignity or respect – Why on earth should we just smile?
I get advised to “Take responsibility for my past”; and get told “you need to move on?”. But how can one move on when the consequences keep arising regularly. Even today I have been busy mopping up consequences arising from one daughter. What they have had too many hits on the head, things just keep on happening. When I am told to take responsibility or “move-on”, I know for sure I am in the company of an idiot. I have done nothing but take responsibility for myself. In my lengthy piece, I tried to convey that abused kids just don’t evaporate conveniently at age seventeen – they just get utterly ignored.
But all the same, I know most are worse off than us. I have a lot of positives, some from the MENZ movement, most from being me.
So why am I here at all. I’m not here to bother with my lot. My post was originally written as a private letter to Wayne Burrows because I liked his published piece. But that composition grew. I came to wonder if it did fit on the topic at all.
I was unable to start a new topic.
I’m not shy, so I dropped it in as a comment.
Maybe I will be of help to others – I do hope so.
Comment by Equality — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 7:01 pm
I agree with your in the company of idiots comment ‘equality’
I have to deal with something similar this week.
For example I am presently being forced to deal with a group of people.
That by experience I have lost all respect for.
They have power and control over my future.
They can force me to do things.
They have threatened me with violence.
Nothing has taken place with my consent.
They refuse to listen to anything I say.
My fate is in the hands of a family court judge.
This time if I am treated badly.
And the result is perverse.
I will disappear.
Comment by DJ Ward — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 8:02 pm
Equality, I admire your strong conscience on these matters. It’s a good idea to refuse to sit in waiting rooms with male-blaming sexist posters displayed. I intend to follow your example.
Comment by Man X Norton — Sun 15th November 2015 @ 10:49 pm
Several commenters above have described scenes of prejudice (against the dominant male culture???).
It is amazing how people can hear what they said, when it is played back for them.
So, maybe a camera and microphone need to be pre-organised. Certainly a good quality cellphone is a very good start.
Lets help those dully prejudiced to move forward too!
(Funny how the legal workers of familycaught$ don’t like other people having recordings of any sort, out of their Power and Control?)
Cheers, MurrayBacon.
Comment by MurrayBacon — Mon 16th November 2015 @ 6:58 am
DJWard. Hi, I believe we know of each other from Paul’s News. It sounds to me that you have been through a lot. If I can be of any help then please let me know. Is my memory right, you were located in Kapiti area? If so, its possible we can catch up in person – Alan Radford.
But do not ever let them win !!! I lose some battles but reckon I’ll win the war. You can do that too……..
The energy for that arises from your self respect. If you have done whats right, you can rightfully be proud of yourself as I am. That is my rock, and our rocks always need to be within us. Others are not likely to be around when the attacks land, so we need our own fortress.
My avoidance of the ED department is about self respect, and how I assess my actions as much higher and truer than theirs. I was tempted to add before that having them even near me makes me feel dirtied – but there, I just wrote it.
Stay true to good principles and yourself DJWard
Comment by Equality — Mon 16th November 2015 @ 7:27 am
DjWard- Do you need a safe harbour?
Comment by Equality — Mon 16th November 2015 @ 10:24 am
Sorry this comment will not be on topic.
This is a plea for all of you who have possibly been in contact with D.J.Ward on this website.
I am his partner of 15 years, he has a 2yr old daughter an unborn child and a 21 year old son who is now living with us after all these years.
D.J. Ward has disappeared leaving me and his children with no explanation of why he left or where he is going and with no way to contact him except maybe through this website.
D.J.Ward is a good man and a great father and we all need him here, home with his family who loves him very much.
If any of you have any contact with him, please urge him to come home
Thankyou
Comment by Deanne — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 3:15 am
I dont know DJ personally, I like his posts and his thoughts on issues and I consider him to be wise and thoughtful and clever, I would like to meet him.
If your heading to christchurch DJ, its a great time to be here,your welcome to borrow some camping gear and go do some river fishing and walk a few trails.
Stealth camping is all the rage and who knows how many are doing it…
I’m keen to give it a go this summer..dakota fire pit and a few bare essentials, get rid of some cobwebs.
Anytime DJ ward, 027 0887 1800.
Comment by voices back from the bush — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 5:09 am
Deanne – What a worry. I have just returned to MENZ, and am not vulnerable any more. I have experience and suggestions which might help if DJWard got in touch. My youngest was just 2yrs old during my dark times – and if DJW’s terror is like mine, then I can understand how he gets into such despair.
During that time, I tried to win the battles, but lost a few just the same. It would flatter me to say “I won the war”; in truth my ex shot herself down leaving my remaining battle against a CYPs application to put the kids in foster-care. I won that.
Its obvious just how alone and isolated DJW feels. Even when we have another beside us, we never forget that we individually are the target.
It may not be as hopeless as it appears to DJW, but to work on that he really needs to communicate – if not – all we can do is worry for him.
I don’t know his personality, and being newly back, I’m not familiar with his older posts.
But if he is volatile, while its a NORMAL human trait, its one which leaves us ripe for misrepresentation and harm. My experience is that officials will try to provoke. Even proper protests can be misrepresented as “unstable” and “violent” – precedents in my case. But I took shit so as to not be provoked. Not good for one’s ego, but best for the war. I wait to hear of progress.
Comment by Equality — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 5:31 am
Equality wrote: ‘I see no time in human history, no precedent, and no current example where the human animal is not prone to fighting and deceiving for whatever reason it deems fit. It seems innate, just like a cat roaming free and catching mice. So surely anyone who contends that violence can be stamped out is at best utterly deluded – but isn’t that the mantra of our so called Anti-violence lot?’
There is incredible violence such as the two world wars but they are called the ‘Great Wars’ or the ‘Good Wars’ in our MSM while the smallest incident against a woman has huge media cover. We need to focus on large scale violence much more before this planet is blown up. The story below and the reader’s comments give good insight
“Talmudism, that old desert ideology with its celebration of fire and brimstone and genocide needs to be urgently and openly addressed by concerned citizens and by the global intelligentsia alike.”
https://platosguns.com/2015/11/14/talmudism-imperialism-terrorism/
Comment by Doug — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 8:41 am
To Doug;
How does your response belong with the issues of this site? That’s a rhetorical question, so no answer is required. My passion is in helping people, families in our community get equality in justice and rights regardless of race age or gender. Others can tackle the violence of big wars.
Comment by Equality — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 12:09 pm
I don’t disagree with you on those things but I think the large scale violence, domestic violence and fatherless children are related because we are living under a perverse ideology that is a death cult that would like to take us back to the Dark Ages. Needless wars and Western families falling apart demoralise and corrupt us
Comment by Doug — Tue 17th November 2015 @ 12:24 pm
Doug “Back to the dark ages!”; well my belief is that we are the exact same primitive beast as was in the dark-ages and on the savannah when we were are tree dwelling creatures. I saw the depictions of torture at Madame Tussaud’s and frankly we can see worse in many places around the planet today. Material and technical innovation is not civilisation. So I say its futile and stupid to pretend that violence can be eliminated, as is the mantra of the supposed anti-violence set. If there is a first step, its for our reality to be recognised and accepted. Then maybe something workable could be done – maybe….. don’t hold your breath.
But even my dog has a concept of fairness, so anything which is unbalanced / unfair will provoke ill feelings and reprisals in some way or other.
I have not the slightest belief that I can stop the wars on this planet. And actually I have no more belief that I can stop the gender prejudice and persecution in New Zealand either.
I’m here in case I can make a difference for others.
But its a matter of maintaining self respect that I do my hopeless best.
I attended Andrew Little’s end of conference speech. No I’m not a supporter, was just curious. On national radio this morning he volunteered he was off to a “White-Ribbon” function. For me that makes him as bad as the worst and most brutal types that ever walked the planet. But do realise, they all are equally seeking feminist favour by attending things like that and enacting gender policies. So I don’t vote for any party. I don’t vote at all. They are all tainted.
So to sum up, I do the best I can, where I and the people that are dear to me are. I am a contrarian, an odd-ball, and quite derive comfort not being like them.
Comment by Equality — Wed 18th November 2015 @ 4:14 pm