This process of appeals to the High Court fascinates me.

It seems to me a judge becomes a judge having demonstrated a slightly greater degree of legal understanding than a mere lawyer.

Then said judge (with the aid of a lawyer to assist the court) comes out with a judgement which the mere lawyer finds (on several points) wrong in fact and law.

The mere lawyer then has to ask the judge who made the erroneous judgement for permission to appeal the judgement.

The mere lawyer sets out the grounds for the appeal.

The judge, having seen the ‘possible’ error of his ways allows the lawyers application to appeal against his own judgement.

Surely, this process is a farce? In fact a grande farce!
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I really wish we could all stop swapping spits about the minor details when the bigger picture needs so much energy.

But there’s another issue which kind’ve interests me. I see on the board tonight there have been 810 visitors to this site, yet the comments are coming from about four folk. Does that mean you four have each visited the site 202.25 times each, or are there a whole bunch of visitors who, for one reason or another are looking but not commenting.

Question: why visit and not comment?
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Thanks to the community groups being shown on the right hand side of this screen, we have so much more information.

Here is something interesting to look at thanks to ‘NZ Father & Child Society’ website. And ‘www.scoop.co.nz’

family-court-statistics-2004

Families Commission has also done some research into One child, Two homes. by Paul Callister and Stuart Birks

Gee, Stuart Birks does a few statistics and research.

Stats and research can be found here www.stats.govt.nz

People, causing the current internecene arguments for and against the DPB was not the point of my mailing ‘Says It All’.

The whole point was to bring attention to three seperate but vitally connected issues.

Issue 1. DPB offers a solution to the often morally moribund who simmply cannot be bothered getting out of bed to earn their daily bread.

Issue 2. The only way (mostly female recipients) can get it is to gain custody of the children involved.

Issue 3. The prospector of DPB (mostly female) are able to tell almost any lie and have such accepted by the Family Court to then gain DPB.

I believe, for better or worse, that in many cases the fleeing woman would be quite happy if the departing male was allowed complete and free access to the kids and to help manage them. But unless the prospector can demosntrate ‘she’ ‘must’ be the main guardian of the kids, not 50/50, then she won’t get DPB.

And so, in order to get DPB ‘she’ must demonstatrate that ‘she’ is the only fitting guardian. And to do that she ‘must’ throw the father under the bus.

There is a fourth point…and is probably the most iniquitous in Jane’s dialogue.

That was the advice she received from her lawyer that she must ‘not’ make a federal case out of her claims because, in doing so such would go to the District Court (at the very least) and in that environment, real proof is required. Whereas, as she says, in the Family Court, anything goes.

Further, Jane’s income of a grand a week was made up of sundry benefits, I gather totalling about $450 pw, plus accommodation benefit of $200, plus all of her little sidelines plus the income she got from her new live-in.

But this seemlessly immoral woman made the point which I find the most insufferable. She said she didn’t realy care about the kids, she just wanted her life-style and that the kids were just a part of the building blocks for that life-style.

And so we come full circle to my mail from The Shower. We have to find a way to make the Family Court require real evidence, not hearsay, opinion, feelings, crap, etc.

I ask you. How could legislators water down common principles of law (Innocent till PROVEN guilty) in the Family Court, then stand in the light of day and assert the new rules are fair and just?

The answer is, they cannot.

Surely, it is this issue, not the afore mentioned internecene arguments about DBP which MUST be our focus.

All I ask is that the FC be required to require proof positive before acepting any allegation. Simple as that.

And lastly, I say again. There are some genuine cases of serious need for DPB. I don’t have a problem with being a part of the funding for them (as a tax-payer). My problem is, I want the recipients to ‘prove’ beyond reasonable doubt that they are so entitled. And surely, if the partner is a genuine bad-arse, proof must be readily available.

Cheers
David.

This meeting is being postponed. I don’t know how to say this but I am finding that women in high positions and men are aware of the problems men are having. And I am also finding that they agree that men have to be part of the solution. And that they are aware men have feelings, etc and that men are different today from men that used to treat women as second to them.
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Without any permission whatsoever, I am going to cut and paste Wayne’s recent commentary on his walk and post it here. Because it should be widely read. Wayne posted this under Wayne’s walk to Wellington tonight.

My apologies Wayne if I’ve stepped on your toes ..

Hi all,
I am now at Wayne Furguson’s house in Sanson. I have tears welling in my eyes as your read your comments.
I cannot beleive the support I have recieved. I have been given fruit, water, beds for the night, sums of money, and even a large bible.
My 44 year old engine is running sweetly. My chassis and body work is also fine, but my running gear needs an overhaul. Basically, my feet are killing me. The first 3-4 ks in the morning and the last 5 or so ks at the end of the day are excruciating. Uphill walking is great becuase I can put some weight on the pushchair, but the downhill sections are very painful. It’s a good thing I am alone; my groans of pain remain private.
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Hi, Rory MacKinnon here from In Unison, Unitec’s student magazine. Our next issue is themed “the Men’s Issue” where we will, not suprisingly, address men’s issues.

At present I’m working on an article about the cultural phenomenon of The Slap- specifically when a woman slaps a man: whether there is any justification for it, how a man responds psychologically etc.

If you or anyone you know have anything interesting to contribute, please do so below as soon as possible – our deadline is 9am Wednesday of next week.

The following is a letter the ‘apparent’ writer could have written.

Jane laid this out for me just last week when I met her at a scuba diving course and over numerous intervening coffees. Remember, when you read this, she was at a scuba-diving course.

The word ‘brazen’ is just too mild a word to describe the transparency with which she related her story. The substance is correct to her words. The format is mine.

I cannot remember feeling so angry when I heard this diatribe.

Dear New Zealand,

My name is Jane. I’m now 34 years old.

I left school in 1995 with modest marks in NCEA. I couldn’t get a job after I left school so I went on the dole for a couple of years. Then I couldn’t get a job I wanted to do so I stayed on the dole for a couple more years.

So the dole, trading a few drugs, and screwing a few older guys for the stuff they bought me and the money they gave, got me money enough to party on and have a good time.

Then at 22 I met Jeff. He was full of life, had a fab job, seemed to be all energy and plans. He was soooo positive about everything, and he fell in love with me. I liked him a lot but I didn’t love him.
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Monday July 17, 2006
By Sophie Goodchild and Jonathan Owen

Teenage girls who get pregnant deliberately plan to become mothers in the belief that a baby will improve the quality of their lives, a study has found.

The research reveals that girls as young as 13 are making a “career choice” by deciding to have children, since they see parenting as preferable to working in a dead-end job.

The findings from the Trust for the Study of Adolescence challenges the assumption that schoolgirl mothers are all irresponsible adolescents who are ignorant about using contraception.
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The Sunday’ item “the F Word” that screened last week on the men’s protests outside lawyers homes is on the tvnz.co.nz site and can be viewed @

the f word

you may have to press ‘flash player’ good luck.

Torture is any act by which severe pain, whether physical or psychological, is intentionally inflicted on a person as a means of intimidation, deterrence, revenge, punishment, or information gathering.

Ask any prisoner of war and he will tell you that the worst torture of all is psychological. Physical pain can be endured by a strong person but psychological pain has broken almost every person who has endured it.

Why is it that the DV bill doesn’t include the word torture? Could it be that the word violence best describes what men do? To use the word torture might give weight to the reality that most men endure torture when their partner wishes to hurt them.

I have endured torture over the last three and a half years. It has nearly broken my spirit and that of my extended family. If I had a choice of passing through a gangs initiation line up and my ex wifes anger I would happily spend a week of getting “the bash”. I am living proof that the system allows a female to persue a course of torture. Although I have had 4 judges from the family court find in my favour she still carries on. If I was of a weak mind and to kill her in order to end my misery I would become another statistic to illustrate that men are violent.

The Truth Will Out….an old adage,which, like so many of its ilk, contains more than a grain of truth.

The Weekend Herald today had a front page article,as I am sure most of you are aware,titled “Tea Break Justice” and contained the following excerpts:

One judge admitted that reading documents on protection order applications and making decisions on them “often occurred during a 15-minute tea break”.

A lawyer who participated in the study said the adversarial system was a “ton of fun for lawyers” but “no fun at all for participants”.

I personally find these comments abhorrent and totally reprehensible and am at a loss as to why professional liars are, for once,being truthful. Reasons aside,I feel that such attitudes give credence to protests held kerbside outside their homes and that those who have felt otherwise, will now see the validity of such action.

I also read the article in the Herald today. Once again I was distressed by the distortions which keep rising and rising.

For example, the graph does not demonstrate the numbers of female violent acts against men.

But most importantly, the data does not even attempt to address the issue of women making false allegations of ‘violence’ for the sole purposes of gaining custody of the children.
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Nicola Boyes article on “The human cost of domestic violence” appeared to be lacking good research. How about the juxtaposition of the cost of false claims of violence that leads to men being evicted from their homes and separated from their children. Are these men and their children not ‘human’? I don’t want to diminish the seriousness of legitimate claims, however, false claims represent a large amount of ex parte orders due to the incredible power they bring to the applicant in a custody case or an attack on a prenuptial agreement. By all means tell the stories of innocent beaten women but innocent men have a story as well and it needs to be heard.

Men become depressed and suicidal when the state smashes their life by unjustly depriving them of defence and treats them as a pariah for three months or more. The premise of justice, innocent till proven guilty, is overridden by proxy. Surely the herald has the recourses to investigate the hundreds of men who kill themselves each year and perhaps discover a link between recent alleged DV allegations and suicide.

It is an indictment on NZ’s justice system that a man’s human and civil rights can depend entirely on the integrity of the woman he chooses as a partner. There must be a better way to protect a minority of genuine female victims and leave the majority of innocent accused men and their children with justice.

Hi all.

Is anyone able to provide me with accurate details regarding the way the proportion of income a non-custodial partner is required to pay in child/custodial maintenance is calculated?

Further, is any or all of the amount paid additive to the sum the
custodial parent gets from DPB?

Does anyone know ‘exactly’ how this process is calculated?

Cheers
David.

Through experiences of meeting, talking on the phone and e-mailing others on and off this site one would find all agreeing on major issues and disagreeing on minor issues. Now this has kept the men’s movement united and divided. This has kept all groups or as individuals with a small amount of power which really has no real power against any system that has gained power through years of existance and with real leadership, from written words to all united for the same cause.

There are groups in NZ which are religous believing that the family unit is extremely important for the children, there are men’s groups throughout NZ that are struggling to survive funding wise and are not getting any real changes made by the government for fathers (even though a small step can be considered something wondeful in the right direction)

There are suicide groups trying to stop fathers from harming themselves, there are youth groups more than aware of the consequenses of good fathering and there are individuals that have seen what the Family Court does through their own experiences or that of their friends.

There are female groups and family groups that are saddened by the amount of power destroying their own women and children clients.

There are addiction centres and prisons being filled up with males that are equally a victim as any women. And they cannot get real support or funding for men. While women they can get for easily.

There are schools that are concerned for male students. We have ‘Woman’s studies’ at University level, yet, no ‘Men’s studies.’

We have polititions that want so much to put the brakes on feminism at their level but have no substantial evidence or unity in the community to argue back.
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Sometimes, for better or worse, we take matters into our own hands. We arrive at a point where we believe the law, justice, and reason deserts us. We are afloat on a sea of irrationality and to save ourselves from drowning we pitch in with the sea.

And a no more eloquent example of such can be found than in the case of the guy in New York whom, sickened by the system which had taken his children, and then tried to take his home, decided his home was all he had left….and the ex wasn’t going to get it.

Did he petition the court? No!

Did he protest? No!

Did he attempt to further negotiate? No!

No! This man, at the end of his tether, planted a few sticks of gellignite just so, in his $9 Million dollar home, a home subject to some historical trust rules, and literally blew it up, reducing it to rubble while he was still inside.
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I am hearing too many stories from women recently telling me that they are in trouble. Now, why would that be? Afterall, they have more rights than the men.

Counsellors and the talk in childcare centres, kindergardens, schools and womens groups and centres is such; “The dad can pick you son up from school, kindy etc and you cannot do anything about it, at present”

So what are these women being told to do.

“Get hold of a lawyer and make yourself the “Custodian.”
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Ms Surgenor and I have had a few email words over the last few days. My reply to her last is below and reading between the lines will allow you to understand the nature of my comments.

“When in the act of erring, and found wanting, as appears to be the case in this instance, (as regards your sexual predilections) I am always quick to raise my hand. And so please accept my most profound apologies and pass same to your receptionist.

Mind you, my own observations could well have been coloured by the plethora of public opinion to which I have recently been exposed. By that I mean; whenever I mention your name some person will metaphorically spit on the ground and utter words such as, ‘Oh, that bloody lesbo.’

In your defence I must also say that the guy who fixes you car did assert you had a few men-friends. And don’t go getting all paranoid. I met him as a part of my regular business and the subject somehow got around to the FC and thus you. Albeit, at the time, you were still pretending to act properly for me.

Isn’t it amazing how innuendo, half-truths, perceptions renamed truth, and so much harsh untruth can so easily contaminate the lives of the innocent? Perhaps you might like to reflect upon that when next you buy into ‘bad man/good woman’ games; games so often played at the inevitable expense of the children involved.
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I thought I would just tell ever so briefly my story to add to the file.

I was employed in the government power generation industry and was able to provide for my wife and family without too much hardship.

When my older kids went to polytech and university, I was made redundant and my career had to be re- identified.

When I got married I promised my wife I would support her return to university to finish her degree when for her the time was right. It was at this stage she felt the time was right and she organised to buy another house in Dunedin for accommodation for her and my remaining daughter to allow them to finish their studies in the city. I was left in the family home in Omarama to work back into the power industry as a contractor and to continue providing for my family studying in Dunedin. It was one huge commitment to live alone for three years but I felt it was worth it. It was seen by me as three years investment in my family. I was working in a job I was not trained for but I persevered to be effective because it was only for three years until my wife got her degree and I could then do something for me.
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A couple of days ago I recieved the following email from the Ministry of Justice.

I believe this is designed to suppress complaints made about the lawyer who was involved in the case, rather than to protect the children.

As I don’t have a spare $2,000 lying around, and have other plans for the next few months, I have complied.

I am disapointed that this information, and the discussion that followed has had to be suppressed, but the power and control in this situation is in the hands of the anti-male brigade.

I strongly encourage everyone to publish details about their cases, but please don’t break the law in the process.

Dear John Potter

Article on menz.org.nz in breach of the Care of Children Act 2004.

I write to alert you of the contents of an article and comments posted on your website menz.org.nz.
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The danger of further involving the Police in domestic disputes needs to be considered seriously.

I believe that the police have lost a lot of public respect since they became involved in traffic control. I shouldn’t need to explain to you why!!! Even internally there is conflict with the way domestic disputes are handled and there is becoming a smaller and smaller envelope for an Officer to make a decision based on wisdom vs PC. I still believe NZ has the best force in the world and know many good cops.

I am currently placing a complaint before the Police on a matter that should never have entered the courts but due to a feminazi cop taking sides with my ex, without looking at the facts, she has hounded me for six months. Despite making a complaint of her actions to the Area Commander she was obviously not chided for her unprofessional behaviour.
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Dateline: England
Author: Timocrat
From: Anti-Misandry (Part of the Priority Men’s New Exchange Program)
Via: The Honor Network

Ex-Wives Less Likely to Pay Support to Kids than Husbands

In a report out from the UK government ex-wives were even slightly less likely to pay child support when the ex-husband has custody. The question of course to ask is, “Why do we only hear about the unfair dead-beat-father distortion.” This is gradualism of the worst sort, not to mention the fact that some men with custody probably wave off support to be rid of the ex-visa card challenged spouse?

The public has no idea of the situation for the established media give no wind of the truth (unless on the back page). Well, just place it on top of all the other unfair points for the list is piling up.

Dateline: Canada
Author : Timocrat
From: BC Fathers (Part of the Priority Men’s New Exchange Program)
Via: The Honor Network

Ruling From the Bench Takes on Whole New Meaning

Canada’s Supreme Court, who have been unelected by the average man at all levels of their advancement, have taken it upon themselves to govern Canada. Twenty-one years ago, Canada adopted the “no-fault” divorce principle, the purpose of which was to not allow the misconduct of one of the spouses in a marriage to be taken into account when establishing spousal support payments.

The idea was to prevent the aggrieved party, almost always the wife, from collecting money forever because her husband wronged her. Now that’s to be changed for good, or until men finally get organized. With money running out for lawyers, and fathers seeing the writing on the wall (and thus not spending their last dime on fighting for the access that is unlikely to come) the state is going to have to be even more aggressive in supporting its feminist dictated system. This has been covered before here with ex-wives in Canada dipping into their husband’s pension plans for 50%, even when married over 30 years ago for only a year. Additionally making fathers finance their now adult children (into their late 20s early 30s) in say their feminist studies master degrees.
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Put yourself in the Judge’s seat. You are presented with an array of accusation and denial. Largely bereft of any evidence, you must attempt to sift through th chaffe because legislation asserts you must, and do so more or less blind.

It seems to me there is a relatively simple way of overcoming the Family Court’s requirement to even contemplate uncorroborated accusations against the defending partner.

All accusations must be lodged with the NZ Police. They in turn must decide if charges can or should be laid against the accused.

In the event the Police charge the accused then the case goes straight to the District (Criminal) Court. Depending on severity the accused could opt for a Jury Trial. In other words, if Ms Surgenor’s ‘cap’ is up for fitting, then allow the criminal court to do the fitting.
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